Kitchen - Moving inspection chamber/access hole

getmoving

Hi,

The kitchen in my two-up two-down house in Drimnagh is built out over the back yard of the house. Under the kitchen lino is a hole with some drainage pipes in them - see images below:

[IMG][/img]





I'd like to know:
1. What type of drain is this (inspection chamber/access point)?
2. Do planning regs allow rooms over these drains?
3. what are the options for a replacement cover?

Thanks,

GM

ART6

getmoving wrote: »

Hi,

The kitchen in my two-up two-down house in Drimnagh is built out over the back yard of the house. Under the kitchen lino is a hole with some drainage pipes in them - see images below:

I'd like to know:
1. What type of drain is this (inspection chamber/access point)?
2. Do planning regs allow rooms over these drains?
3. what are the options for a replacement cover?

Thanks,

GM

It looks to me like a sewage inspection chamber, and I wouldn't want one of them under my kitchen floor. I would think it would come under Building Regulations rather than planning. You could try flushing a loo with the cover open, since then you'd know if it is a sewer or not. If it is, then unless you have the means of doing it yourself I would think you need the services of a builder to fill it in and construct a new chamber outside.

PeteHeat

Hi,

It looks likethe old A.J. for the foul sewer, also its very unlikely to be for surface water as they were often easier to move.

Way back in real hard times (1970s >1980s) Dublin Corporation had Building Bye Laws, they were replaced by the less effective current building regs, the reason our present regs are less effective is when building an extension it was inspected to avoid such shortcuts, sadly not anymore.

If you look in the back gardens either side of your house or possibly in a lane between the terrace of houses you should see two manholes, one is for foul sewer and one is for surface water.

Failing that contact the drainage department in Dublin City Council, they should have a map showing where the drains run.

Sometimes you get lucky and the drains are running further away from the house than the present building line of your extension, in that case you dig down to the main sewer and build a manhole.

You then divert the pipes from the present AJ through a new AJ outside and on into the new manhole which you will have made a connection with the main sewer.

Sometimes the main sewer is only about six feet from the original back door of the house which would mean its running under the floor of your extension.

That one can be harder to rectify because if you can't connect into a manhole in a neighbours garden (they don't have to allow you to) it could mean ripping up the floor to install the drain properly.

You might benefit from the advice of a local architect who can advise you based on the drainage maps and current regulations.

One thing for sure is it should not be inside the house, sewers should be treated with respect they provide a vital service but can also create major problems when not installed within the rules.

I'm sure there is lots I have left out others may be able to advise you better.

.

getmoving

Cheers for comments. I'll give Dublin City Council a shout re maps. I'll also try flushing toilet, running kitchen taps and see what flows into the drains.

The kitchen extension is directly outside what would have been the back door. It was built, I imagine, before even the 1980s - there are two extensions at the side of the house, built in the 80s, that use standard cavity blocks, whereas the kitchen is made from thin and old bricks. None of them have planning permission - but sure nothing new there . I've been advised by a surveyor and a couple of builders that while the side extensions will probably get retention, the brickwork, ceiling height and drain mean the kitchen won't get retention. BUT the kitchen would probably only be worth rebuilding to current standards if it's not running over the main sewer.

Will keep you posted.

getmoving

Hi,

Got on to Dublin City Council's drain dept. They say they only have the records/maps of the on-street drains. I would have thought they'd have the drain maps/records for all main drains in the Drimnagh estate I'm living in, as it was a local authority estate under their control. They advised me to get a surveyor in.

Guess that's the next step so?

Carlow52

The first thing IMO that u need to establish is whether the sewer under the black bend is just yours or does it cater for your neighbours.

You then, as suggested earlier, need to establish where each is pipe is coming from with what content.

As an aside did u buy the property with no planning search/survey?

If u own the property then you need to think about preserving the value of your investment, if you dont own it then ,,,

If the kitchen will not get retention may be best to lose it and move the kitchen back into one of the 'retained' extensions as any work in moving the manhole will be mega money

While I agree that having it inside the house is not ideal, you might consider upgrading the manhole to a proper airtight one.

It also looks to me that you have a serious floor damp problem.

Based on the advice given by the others here u should be able to figure the above out easily enough

getmoving

Hi,

I got the place surveyed before I bought it, and knew about the drain and that the three extensions didn't have planning... and even that the kitchen extension wouldn't get retention as the materials/room specs aren't up to scratch. But I bought it anyway (back in 2005). I'm going to apply for retention on the two side extensions, which should be granted.

Moving the kitchen into the back side extension is a definite possibility.

Didn't notice damp problem before - will check out.

Cheers.

PeteHeat

Hi,

You may have been taking to someone who dosen't know all the information they have in the archieves.

Back in the good old days when applying for permission from Dublin Corporation you also had to get Bye Law Approval, to get approval a map showing the drains had to be sourced from Dublin Corporation.

The reason being you were not allowed to build over the drains without permision if the extension had to go over the drains the rules were so strict the Bye Law Inspector would visit at least three times to ensure building settlement etc was allowed for.

When building over the main drain you had to build a manhole in the garden and all services had to route through the new manhole before entering the main drains, strictly no surface water mixing with foul sewers.

They have the maps because they had to update them when any changes were made, I had to go through their process when building an extension in Drimnagh some 25 years ago, the main sewer pipe was down about six feet.

.