The (double) rapists mother sings outside the court

arybvtcw0eolkf

thelordofcheese wrote: »

What i want to know is why do people give his shitty opinion any credence?

Because sometimes Degsy Kevin Myers hits the nail on the head.

I train with travellers, I sometimes drink with travellers & everything goes well mostly - but its ALWAYS on their term's, if traveller issue's come there's always the excuse's used in the Myers articule and every other side of the argument is stone walled.

IMO & speaking with the benefit of experience, its a good read and very accurate.

.

ihadu

i agree with Myers on this issue, travellers abhorrent moral shortcomings are cleverly veiled as "culture". this must change

thelordofcheese

Kelsey Thousands Racketeer wrote: »

Because sometimes Degsy Kevin Myers hits the nail on the head.

I train with travellers, I sometimes drink with travellers & everything goes well mostly - but its ALWAYS on their term's, if traveller issue's come there's always the excuse's used in the Myers articule and every other side of the argument is stone walled.

IMO & speaking with the benefit of experience, its a good read and very accurate.

.

Pretending that people invoking special pleading is some kind of unique traveler thing is nothing but nonsense.

herya

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Pretending that people invoking special pleading is some kind of unique traveler thing is nothing but nonsense.

Agree. What the man did is horrible but a monster like this could just as well come from a non-traveller scumbag environment (like the 4 rapes in 6 days guy). He is a scum of the earth first. Same for baseless claims and "I deserve" culture. Traveller scumbags are no different from non-traveller scumbags, there might be some issue of quantity not quality though.

Amalgam

billy the squid wrote: »

My opinions are my own, and I am just as free to express them as you are, so **** what a lot of people think.

The debate over whether travellers are an ethnic group is a different matter which is not relavent to the thread. so am not going to get into it.

Well, excuse me for being so bold, but you introduced that factor into the thread. I am convinced a second rape took place because the first incident was isolated, in the manner that court cases do. There's perfectly just and good reasons why that's the case, but there comes a point I feel where a person's 'worth' to society should be held up to a strong light.. and If it had been done thoroughly, back in 1997, it is quite possible an 86 year old wouldn't have had to suffer being repeatedly raped, in her home, at night.

Ethnic?

ihadu

herya wrote: »

Agree. What the man did is horrible but a monster like this could just as well come from a non-traveller scumbag environment (like the 4 rapes in 6 days guy). He is a scum of the earth first.

you're not understanding what Myers is saying.

herya

ihadu wrote: »

you're not understanding what Myers is saying.

Which is?

He says that Traveller culture is unique in creating and supporting monsters.

Hasn't he heard about the 4 rapes/6 days guy? You could lock up all Travellers and their families but guys like these would still be around.

What I'm saying is that it's a wider issue encompassing both Traveller and non-Traveller communities.

billy the squid

Amalgam wrote: »

Well, excuse me for being so bold, but you introduced that factor into the thread. I am convinced a second rape took place because the first incident was isolated, in the manner that court cases do. There's perfectly just and good reasons why that's the case, but there comes a point I feel where a person's 'worth' to society should be held up to a strong light.. and If it had been done thoroughly, back in 1997, it is quite possible an 86 year old wouldn't have had to suffer being repeatedly raped, in her home, at night.

Ethnic?

No I did not, the fact that he was a Traveller had been in the thread long before I had posted. I raised the issue of what his ethnic background had to do with it. Also, there was a mod request to stick to the issue of the thread.

The courts are soft on rapists, that is the real shocking issue here. heres another case

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/back-on-the-streets-the-convicted-predator-who-raped-four-women-in-six-days-1827204.html

The indidtment here should go to the legal system, not to the entire Travelling Community.

PCPhoto

valery wrote: »

once the testicles are gone a large amount of feminisation takes place, the last thing in their heads is violence or rape. Still lock the bastards (rapists) up for life to become prison bitches . For me , thats irony and punishment. This wont happen though cos the last thing the government care about is the rights of the victims and the prevention of rape, ie, catholic church rape club went on for decades with the FULL knowelege of the cowboys in kildare street. THATS A FACT.!!!!!

can you please give the source of your FACTS ???

Chemical castration doesnt stop a rapist from raping - as I have mentioned before (on this thread) ....for a rapist - its not completely about raping more about the sense of power over their victims - putting the fear into them.

My name is URL

Myers is a cnut imho, what he writes may have elements of truth in it but he always seems to wait until theres a sense of public outrage on a subject before he pens his stuff.

Thats not good journalism, its a petty half-arsed attempt at snowballing a scandal. I bet he **** at the thoughts of creating controversy

Though taking his stance on free-speech is useful

thelordofcheese

My name is URL wrote: »

Myers is a cnut imho, what he writes may have elements of truth in it but he always seems to wait until theres a sense of public outrage on a subject before he pens his stuff.

Thats not good journalism, its a petty half-arsed attempt at snowballing a scandal.

i know it's not what you meant, but that just conjured the most horrible mental image ever.

El Siglo

Myers was spot on in his article, say anything against this group and you're in trouble. This McGinley cúnt should never be released again from the first rape, he's a twisted bastard who should die a slow painful death. His family (i.e. mother and wife) are abviously messed up, but as Sacha Baron Cohen once said while discussing the holocaust "the path to Auschwitz was paved with indifference", people supporting this piece of shít are obviously indifferent to the suffering and hurt he has caused because they have never endured it themselves and are obviously blind to the facts of the case. But playing some sort of minority card or using such status as an excuse is unacceptable (for everyone concerned, including Myers) in this situaion, McGinley is a sick cúnt regardless of whether he lived in a caravan or a house.

arybvtcw0eolkf

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Pretending that people invoking special pleading is some kind of unique traveler thing is nothing but nonsense.

But we're not talking about other people here, we're talking about the travelling community, and anyway - I'm pretending nothing.

I know very well what other minorities will try to plead, I don't buy any of it for a second.

I don't buy into bullsh*t easily.

.

ihadu

herya wrote: »

Which is?

He says that Traveller culture is unique in creating and supporting monsters.

Hasn't he heard about the 4 rapes/6 days guy? You could lock up all Travellers and their families but guys like these would still be around.

What I'm saying is that it's a wider issue encompassing both Traveller and non-Traveller communities.

I don't think he says this, he feels the low moral code of travellers has become standard with no intention of progressing. this sub par moral existance sits comfortable with them as their "culture".

Amalgam

billy the squid wrote: »

No I did not, the fact that he was a Traveller had been in the thread long before I had posted. I raised the issue of what his ethnic background had to do with it. Also, there was a mod request to stick to the issue of the thread.

The courts are soft on rapists, that is the real shocking issue here. heres another case

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/back-on-the-streets-the-convicted-predator-who-raped-four-women-in-six-days-1827204.html

The indidtment here should go to the legal system, not to the entire Travelling Community.

I accept that the legal system creates problems with how it operates. But just let me clarify, I made the point about us all being travellers, to differentiate myself from Myers. I do think that if you come from a **** hole, halting site or not, and that your upbringing was lacking, it should be a factor in a criminal case, removed from the context of ethnicity or percieved racial difference.

Equality has to mean equal on every footing, not replaced with positive discrimination, against the majority. That will never work.

herya

Amalgam wrote: »

I do think that if you come from a **** hole, halting site or not, and that your upbringing was lacking, it should be a factor in a criminal case, removed from the context of ethnicity or percieved racial difference.

My upbringing was lacking in many aspects and I'm not a scumbag because I've got brains. I hate it when criminals have it easy because of their bad upbringing. It counts when you're a child and then you grow up and can think on your own.

El Siglo

Amalgam wrote: »

I accept that the legal system creates problems with how it operates. But just let me clarify, I made the point about us all being travellers, to differentiate myself from Myers. I do think that if you come from a **** hole, halting site or not, and that your upbringing was lacking, it should be a factor in a criminal case, removed from the context of ethnicity or percieved racial difference.

Equality has to mean equal on every footing, not replaced with positive discrimination, against the majority. That will never work.

Spot on there.

billy the squid

Amalgam wrote: »

I accept that the legal system creates problems with how it operates. But just let me clarify, I made the point about us all being travellers, to differentiate myself from Myers. I do think that if you come from a **** hole, halting site or not, and that your upbringing was lacking, it should be a factor in a criminal case, removed from the context of ethnicity or percieved racial difference.

Equality has to mean equal on every footing, not replaced with positive discrimination, against the majority. That will never work.

It still does not justify his ethnic backgroun d into the debate. being draggud up as a child has happened in the settled community also.

My hwhole point is that his being a Traveller is not the issue here. some people, as quoted below don't seem to think so

hes a tinker , prisons are full of tinkers and they protect thier own , the only change for the SOB will be not having to **** in the woods

when it comes to tinkers , its always someone elses fault hence the blame by the mother for the old lady not being in a home

tinker women dont leave thier husbands , thier almost as subservient as muslim women to thier husbands , entirely different culture

Again I ask, what has is ethnicity got to do with anything. 4rapes6days guy wasn't a traveller,

The case here is being used by some racists to have a go at all travellers, which is what I object to.

thelordofcheese

Kelsey Thousands Racketeer wrote: »

But we're not talking about other people here, we're talking about the travelling community, and anyway - I'm pretending nothing.

I know very well what other minorities will try to plead, I don't buy any of it for a second.

I don't buy into bullsh*t easily.

.

*sigh*

I'll make this easy

everyone invokes special pleading, turning around and going "ahh shur them tinkers always have some excuse" isn't proof of anything beyond the fact that dispite what some might say they are, infact, human.

His being a tinker has no bearing on this case, if myers were to ever try being an actual journalist again he may well remember that and write something that isn't a siren call for people to just vent their spleens.

ihadu

thelordofcheese wrote: »

*sigh*

I'll make this easy

everyone invokes special pleading, turning around and going "ahh shur them tinkers always have some excuse" isn't proof of anything beyond the fact that dispite what some might say they are, infact, human.

His being a tinker has no bearing on this case, if myers were to ever try being an actual journalist again he may well remember that and write something that isn't a siren call for people to just vent their spleens.

What Myers is trying to achieve is the recognition that this group of people make little to no attempt at self-improvement, something that is considered normal in society. futhermore, travellers have found a way around this by labelling their shortcomings as their "culture". this attitude needs to be addressed not ignored

thelordofcheese

ihadu wrote: »

What Myers is trying to achieve is the recognition that this group of people make little to no attempt at self-improvement, something that is considered normal in society. futhermore, travellers have found a way around this by labelling their shortcomings as their "culture". this attitude needs to be addressed not ignored

All myers is trying to do is perfect the art of being a hack.

And, once again, that's not exactly a traveler only thing. We need only look at our own attitude towards drink to see where people have turned shortcoming into 'culture'.

billy the squid

ihadu wrote: »

What Myers is trying to achieve is the recognition that this group of people make little to no attempt at self-improvement, something that is considered normal in society. futhermore, travellers have found a way around this by labelling their shortcomings as their "culture". this attitude needs to be addressed not ignored

Of course ignoring the fact that these "shortcomings" might have something to do with discrimination also.

And where has anyone claimed that recidivist rape is part of traveller culture, I don't hear traveller representatives coming out defending this man, do you?

ihadu

[quote=
And, once again, that's not exactly a traveler only thing. We need only look at our own attitude towards drink to see where people have turned shortcoming into 'culture'.[/quote]

i agree, the irish have played the culture card too often when it comes to social drinking. distinctions can be made, however, as there are concertive actions being made to improve the drinking culture and other shortcomings in our society. we highlight and actively seek to remedy our faults/poor behaviour as is expected in a progressing people. travellers seem so far removed from this idea, any attemp to offer suggestions is met with their "culture" card.

ihadu

billy the squid wrote: »

Of course ignoring the fact that these "shortcomings" might have something to do with discrimination also.

And where has anyone claimed that recidivist rape is part of traveller culture, I don't hear traveller representatives coming out defending this man, do you?

this seems unnecessarily smug.

billy the squid

how so.

as your self this. is crime a part of afro-american culture? if not then why are there so many afro-american people in prison compared to whites?

And even though i'm probably pissing against the wind, I will ask again, why is this rapists ethnicity relavent?

ihadu

billy the squid wrote: »

how so.

as your self this. is crime a part of afro-american culture? if not then why are there so many afro-american people in prison compared to whites?

And even though i'm probably pissing against the wind, I will ask again, why is this rapists ethnicity relavent?

i can't answer this but what a lovely counter address.

billy the squid

That doesn't answer my question, how is my post smug?

flushje

This is one of those exceptions where a cnut like this should die in prison.

galwayrush

flushje wrote: »

This is one of those exceptions where a cnut like this should die in prison.

I' say die painfully before he got to prison, it's our tax money that will keep him in relative luxury, he'll get more help than his victims could ever dream about.:(

flushje

galwayrush wrote: »

I' say die painfully before he got to prison, it's our tax money that will keep him in relative luxury, he'll get more help than his victims could ever dream about.:(

Of course that would be the best option, but its not going to happen. If there was a choice of Death penalty or life(till he dies) in prison, Id give him life, the Death penalty would be an easy way out.

ihadu

billy the squid wrote: »

That doesn't answer my question, how is my post smug?

"might have something to do with discrimination also."

this statement mirrors the race card, unnecessary and sidetracking. i have not discriminated against travellers.

"And where has anyone claimed that recidivist rape is part of traveller culture, I don't hear traveller representatives coming out defending this man, do you?"

Myers insinuated there is a culture of silence with the issue of rape, not your extreme. Of course no one defended him, why say that...

i don't wish to go on like this so i'll bow out

billy the squid

ihadu wrote: »

"might have something to do with discrimination also."

this statement mirrors the race card, unnecessary and sidetracking. i have not discriminated against travellers.

I never said you did, I asked you why my statement was smug. The tone of the entire thread since it was mentioned that he was a traveller is that claim that crime and the like are "a part of traveller culture." "the prisons are full of them.2

The fact that there is a high proportion of travellers in prisons is not an indicator that crime is a part of their culture.

"And where has anyone claimed that recidivist rape is part of traveller culture, I don't hear traveller representatives coming out defending this man, do you?"

Myers insinuated there is a culture of silence with the issue of rape, not your extreme. Of course no one defended him, why say that...

i don't wish to go on like this so i'll bow out

His first victim was a traveller, who faught her way through the courts to get an abortion. hardly silent now, was she? She was also present at his sentencing this week for the second rape.

If you cannot tell me why my post was smug, then you shouldn't have posted it.

ihadu

"The fact that there is a high proportion of travellers in prisons is not an indicator that crime is a part of their culture."

amazingly i would say it does. i genuinely feel i don't need to explain why

His first victim was a traveller, who faught her way through the courts to get an abortion. hardly silent now, was she? She was also present at his sentencing this week for the second rape.

thats not exactly a fitting sample of travellers to draw your conclusion... 1 girl...
i have no idea of the going ons in the traveller community, i'm drawing conclusions from an article by Myers.

i said it was smug because i felt it was a cheap, sidetracking post.
i'm going out so can't continue this.

galwayrush

I'm not certain about this, but i remember hearing about another traveller girl who was raped some years back, and as a result, she was never allowed to get married because she was no longer a virgin.

asdasd

His being a tinker has no bearing on this case, if myers were to ever try being an actual journalist again he may well remember that and write something that isn't a siren call for people to just vent their spleens.

What Myers pointed out in that article - an article which used fairly simple words - was this easy to understand point: were the rapist to come from the settled community, he would not have had this entire family there supporting him and shouting abuse at the victims of his atrocious crime, and the victims of his previous crime who was raped at the age of 13.

BTW, were the victims family to retort - as opposed to maintain what the Irish Times called a dignified silence - they could be accused of a hate crime, depending on the words used.

the pathological actions of this man are indeed related to how the Irish society treats him. far too leniently because of his "ethnicity".

Just read the utterly vile Vincent Browne on the sole time in the last few years when a member of the powerless rural poor octogenarian ( or aging) class defended himself against the extremely violent actions of traveller criminals who deliberately target old isolated people - the Nally case.

Browne, an utter serpent, opined from his millionaire suburb about how the jury was like the Southern States when it nullified.

i have said this before: if the traveller "problems" are caused by lack of resources then put the halting sites in the richest areas of Dublin. Put them in Dublin 4. Put the McGinleys right beside Browne's house. He is the high Priest of D4 hypocrisy. He makes me retch.

Let the liberals reap what they have sown, not the powerless working , rural, and urban lower middle classes.

herya

asdasd wrote: »

What Myers pointed out in that article - an article which used fairly simple words - was this easy to understand point: were the rapist to come from the settled community, he would not have had this entire family there supporting him and shouting abuse at the victims of his atrocious crime, and the victims of his previous crime who was raped at the age of 13.

Fair point. But then again in crime infected areas you have whole families where small children are taught to attack others, sons shoot fathers' enemies and crime becomes a lifestyle supported by the whole family as well as the neighbours. These people are not travellers.

What his family did and still does is vile and atrocious but what I'm trying to say is that it is hardly unique to travellers in modern Ireland. Attributing it to traveller culture only is keeping your eyes firmly closed on the bigger picture of crime support which should be tackled regardless what's the culprit's background.

johnathan woss

billy the squid wrote: »

The fact that there is a high proportion of travellers in prisons is not an indicator that crime is a part of their culture.

Could you explain this incredible statement ?

irish_bob

billy the squid wrote: »

It still does not justify his ethnic backgroun d into the debate. being draggud up as a child has happened in the settled community also.

My hwhole point is that his being a Traveller is not the issue here. some people, as quoted below don't seem to think so







Again I ask, what has is ethnicity got to do with anything. 4rapes6days guy wasn't a traveller,

The case here is being used by some racists to have a go at all travellers, which is what I object to.

even you knock tinkers all day long , its not racism you moron , they are the same as most irish people , white caucasian , oh and btw , travellers are not discriminated against , the rest of us are ,

my brother employed tinkers to paint sheds on his farm a few summers ago , theese tinkers were legitimatley advertised in the farmers journal and in thier advert gave guarentees and assurances of service , anyway the paint was diesel with a drop of pain in it , a common scam tinkers use when painting sheds , my brother rang the advertising section of the farmers journal to complain that they were allowing unscrupolous and fraudulent business,s to advertise in thier publication , he explained that old vulnerable and poor farmers in rural ireland could be taken advantage of by this scam , next week the add was gone and it stayed that way for six months untill one week when the same add was back , my brother again rang up and was quickly briefed by a farmers journal employee that she would not engage in an EQUALITY debate , it turned out the tinkers complained to the equality authority about the farmers journal and they had to let this cowboy outfit advertise thier fraudelent services once again , now tell me , would a member of the settled community get away with something like that