An Bord Snip Nua

Scofflaw

dresden8 wrote: »

Dare we tax the rich?

What will Dutch businessman Bono and his mates make of it?

Cnuts.

I'd swear we've been over the swear filter and the use of 'clever' misspellings to get around it. Are you really incapable of making your point without the use of four-letter crudities?

moderately,
Scofflaw

dresden8

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'd swear we've been over the swear filter and the use of 'clever' misspellings to get around it. Are you really incapable of making your point without the use of four-letter crudities?

moderately,
Scofflaw

Apologies. Still can't stand him though.

turgon

dresden8 wrote: »

Apologies. Still can't stand him though.

Why, because he felt he wasnt getting value for money our of the Irish system and moved away? Because he didnt believe in the Social Welfare he was forced to pay for?

Heaven forbid someone would be able to live the way they wanted to.

dresden8

turgon wrote: »

Why, because he felt he wasnt getting value for money our of the Irish system and moved away? Because he didnt believe in the Social Welfare he was forced to pay for?

Heaven forbid someone would be able to live the way they wanted to.

No, because he felt free to slag off the Irish people about their commitment to the world's poor and how we should give our tax revenue to help them, but then moved his company offshore so he and his friends wouldn't have to contribute to that amount that the Irish people should pay to the self same world's poor.

I'd say what I think but I've already stepped on the moderators toes.

turgon

dresden8 wrote: »

No, because he felt free to slag off the Irish people about their commitment to the world's poor and how we should give our tax revenue to help them, but then moved his company offshore so he and his friends wouldn't have to contribute to that amount that the Irish people should pay to the self same world's poor.

So would you prefer if Bono stopped all advocacy and private donations, and set his contribution solely his tax. Do you think that would be better for the "poor"?

dresden8

turgon wrote: »

So would you prefer if Bono stopped all advocacy and private donations, and set his contribution solely his tax. Do you think that would be better for the "poor"?

Yes, yes I do.

The world would be a much better place if the rich paid their taxes, especially in Africa.

upthedub

turgon wrote: »

Erm, I would say entrepreneurs is a tidier description, and far less manipulated than yours too.



A) I disagree with the bank bailout
Please enlighten me as to what percentage of entrepreneurs got bailouts. If you think about this its probably a lot smaller than you'd like it to be. Then exclude the banking sector and do same. Take a guess, I think this thread could do with some light entertainment.
C) When some homeowners "took the risks, but when the consequences blew up in their faces they went running to the public purse for salvation"



Because, and heres a wild guess, their wealth depends on economic recovery?

Because we have a goverment who couldnt care less about the average person.How the god do they expect somebody with 2-3 children and a mortage and just lost there job to survive???

pearcider

Following this with interest but you seem to go be going off message, turgon. I can see why though as your "rationales" are flawed in my opinion.

Irelands tax burden is extremely low by international standards. Seriously, check it out. The only nations with tax regimes that are lighter are wealthy "special case" countries such as Switzerland, Luxembourg and Austria. Your beloved Danes for example, have a tax rate of 63% on high earners!

Bottom line is we can take the tax hit. The deficit has been caused by the collapse of our indirect, boom dependent tax base. This must be replaced by the reintroduction of the direct taxbase. Some expenditure can be cut but the tax burden must also be increased significantly especially in light of the Guarantee on the banks. If we slash and burn too aggressively, we risk entering a dangerous spiral. It's only a case of normal service being resumed in regards to taxation anyway. I refer to the disastrous FF taxcuts (on the prompting of the exact same people now howling for social service cuts in the media) that followed the Celtic Tiger of the mid to late 90's that arguably got us into this mess in the first place by overheating the economy and expanding our bubble to lunatic levels. Tax is not an evil thing. It is actually the greatest tool at our disposal to create a better society for our children. We owe them a country capable of meeting the challenges of the 21st century at the very least. If everybody paid their fair share, the world would be an immeasurably better place.

As for your tirade about the need to incentivise people to work via the tax system, it's mostly disingenuous bull****. The quarter of a million unemployed are not unemployed by choice. Rich people should have no problem paying 60+% tax. If you earn a million and take home 350k, would you really change your lifestyle, run your business into the ground, lay off staff etc. Of course not. You're only paying back to society what that same society allowed you to create in the first place. It's impossible to create wealth in isolation - in fact the very idea of wealth loses it's meaning. It's simply wrong and offensive to suggest people work for monetary incentives only. Many studies have shown that monetary incentives actually have the opposite effect and demoralise both professional and social activity. I'd hazard to say it's actually common knowledge but I refer you to the extensive literature on the subject. The reality is everybody has responsibilities as citizens. The nation should not serve your interest nor should you expect it to. Rather we should be attempting to create a better society for our children. Look at the Nordic countries who with their high standards of living and highly progressive and stable tax and social systems we should be attempting to emulate. I scarcely need to state that it doesn't stop them innovating, making money, being successful and consistently being top of the class in any human, economic or social development index you care to mention.

gurramok

pearcider wrote: »

Following this with interest but you seem to go be going off message, turgon. I can see why though as your "rationales" are flawed in my opinion.

Irelands tax burden is extremely low by international standards. Seriously, check it out. The only nations with tax regimes that are lighter are wealthy "special case" countries such as Switzerland, Luxembourg and Austria. Your beloved Danes for example, have a tax rate of 63% on high earners!

Bottom line is we can take the tax hit. The deficit has been caused by the collapse of our indirect, boom dependent tax base. This must be replaced by the reintroduction of the direct taxbase. Some expenditure can be cut but the tax burden must also be increased significantly especially in light of the Guarantee on the banks. If we slash and burn too aggressively, we risk entering a dangerous spiral. It's only a case of normal service being resumed in regards to taxation anyway. I refer to the disastrous FF taxcuts (on the prompting of the exact same people now howling for social service cuts in the media) that followed the Celtic Tiger of the mid to late 90's that arguably got us into this mess in the first place by overheating the economy and expanding our bubble to lunatic levels. Tax is not an evil thing. It is actually the greatest tool at our disposal to create a better society for our children. We owe them a country capable of meeting the challenges of the 21st century at the very least. If everybody paid their fair share, the world would be an immeasurably better place.

Your link quotes personal tax rates from 2007. Throw on the levies(10% in some cases) since then and recalculate.

So you want direct taxes to go up to pay for the overpaid(source ESRI) public sector?

Pull the other one. Reduce their pay to comparitive levels in the private sector, then put the taxes up to get a good public service Nordic style.

Oh and while the tax burden goes up, it will depress the economy further. You don't tax your way out of a depression.

whippet

I just find it quite funny now, how the mantra of 'we didn't cause it so why should we suffer' ...... the over inflated public sector staffing, over inflated wages, huge increases in social welfare payments were all financed by the massive revenues from Stamp Duty and the construction sector.

Now that this revenue is gone, there is still a large element of society who feel they should keep recieving from this pool of money that no longer exists.

Hearing the banging on about how the Celtic Tiger did nothing for me or the more vunerable in society .. rubbish, anyone who was recieveing over €200 per week on the dole during the tiger years was benifeting from the Celtic Tiger, without it they would probably have been recieving half that.

Anyone who got massive increased in pay through the benchmarking fiasco was positively affected by the Celtic Tiger ....

jprender

whippet wrote: »

I just find it quite funny now, how the mantra of 'we didn't cause it so why should we suffer' ...... the over inflated public sector staffing, over inflated wages, huge increases in social welfare payments were all financed by the massive revenues from Stamp Duty and the construction sector.

Now that this revenue is gone, there is still a large element of society who feel they should keep recieving from this pool of money that no longer exists.

Hearing the banging on about how the Celtic Tiger did nothing for me or the more vunerable in society .. rubbish, anyone who was recieveing over €200 per week on the dole during the tiger years was benifeting from the Celtic Tiger, without it they would probably have been recieving half that.

Anyone who got massive increased in pay through the benchmarking fiasco was positively affected by the Celtic Tiger ....

Agree with this summation 100%

Whilst most people didn't cause it, most people did benefit from the Celtic Tiger.

there just isn't the money in the public finances any more.


Public Pay is too high
Private pay is too high
Social Welfare is too high
Too many employed in the Public Service
Consumer goods too high

Downward adjustments to all these figures must occur.

Morpheus

Question is...

Mortgage repayments and amounts are sadly not indexed linked to how the economy grows or shrinks unlike pay, taxes, welfare, etc.

So... if all of the above are downsized... what happens to the mortgages we're paying, which increased during the celtic tiger, because house prices were also inflated, because of all of the above!!!!!

jprender

Yeah current levels of debt repayments are the problem alright.

I am afraid that I don't have a solution for this one.


Perhaps, in part return for the bailouts, the govt could "force" the banks to reschedule loans over a longer term so that monthly repayments would go down for everyone ? I don't know.

fatboypee

In Summary....

Reading this post trail heavilly and some of the report, I'm not sure if I'm missing the trick here, but, the report was commissioned to urgently review WHERE cuts could be made to fix a public spending deficit. At best, the report appear hastilliy compiled and remarkalby desperate nd less educated that you would expect from an independent ?

What is proposed in the report is a list of "easy targets" that will get the government out of the sh1t. It pays no heed to the validity, or moral justification of the cuts, it simply proposes "You wanna save X, do Y".

We are talking of blanket cuts in public services, yet at the same time borrowing cash and then spending it in a vain attempts toshore up a massive unstable and inert financial system (the effect of which will not even become aparrent until the up-turn happens).

Instead of doing the intelligent thing and approaching cuts by looking at reforming, and improving the public services, we are simply going to enter a phase of slash and burn ? There are many, many areas where wastage is obvious, we all know where the overpaid and flaccid management lay idle, we are all acutely aware of the mammies with the six kids on the dole who drive the 08 people carriers. These things are clear as the noses on our faces.

What is irksome in the extreme to me is it appears the government do not have the wit or guile to tackle these issues AS issues and thereby save the money they require. Instead, they slash and hack away at the easiest of targets in a vain attempt to rein in spending and to part-finance the absolute cock up of a banking system.

My final point is for everyone saying "we must accept the pain, theres no point in bleating". Who is telling you this..? I understand we must accept the pain, but it should be intelligently administered by people capable of doing so. But overwhelmingly saying "no point in bleating", May God!, there is every point.
Regardless of our role as consumers in this mess, we are being led and manged by a government that appears to care more about saving it's ass and lessening the cock up by smashing easy targets than it does about trying to get the country up and running and on a proper footing.

I thought the end of days of Tony Blair's cronyism and spin was the worst political spin-show i ever saw. Until now. And, like the Brits, we're letting our government get away with it. :rolleyes:

FBP.

ceannair06

What about the figures of the thousands of foreign nationals on the dole ?

Please explain to me why I should have ANOTHER levy added to my tax, taking more money from me when as an Irish citizen I contribute to the pot and take nothing out.

Why on earth should people who have put nothing it get a freebie handout ?

Don't take this a racist slant as it absolutely is not. The s**m who sit round Abbey Street and Connolly day on day out getting tanked on their dole can sod off too. Plus there are thousands upon thousands of good, decent hardworking foreign nationals who work their backsides off and pay huge amounts of tax.

It's scroungers I have a problem with - but why import scroungers when we have enough of our own ?

The welfare system needs to be set up like a credit union, you only get out what you've paid in and if you need a bit extra you pay it back with interest.

I'm sick and tired of seeing my taxes go to some spotty faced little mare who got herself knocked up and now lives high on the hog on our money.

We're on the bones of our a**e at the moment in this country and EVERYONE needs to pay. Why should you get E160 a week just for having a kid ? Don't tell me people need the extra help, if you can't afford a kid then don't have one.

I heard someone just now saying "leave the social welfare alone, the workers should pay for us".

We do, and we're sick of it. Enough is enough.

Morpheus

There may be only one solution to this whole debacle....

*whisper* revolution *whisper*

:rolleyes:

jprender

Unfortunately a revolution will not do anything to improve our situation. We are where we are.

We don't have the money, we need to make the cuts.

luckat

The current government's response to the crisis of a massive flight of jobs, work and money is

a) what economist Morgan Kelly described as being like "a corpulent tooth fairy slipping billions under the pillows of sleeping bankers", and

b) cutting all services that support people who have lost work or are otherwise in need.

I'm still thinking about the post that suggested that capping wages would drive away talented people. The implication is that Cowen, whose wage packet is fatter than most other prime ministers' worldwide, is an unrecognised genius. Hmm. Maybe...

KerranJast

ceannair06 wrote: »

What about the figures of the thousands of foreign nationals on the dole ?

Foreign nationals can't claim the Dole unless they have worked here and payed PRSI. If they have done so then they are as entitled to the Dole as any Paddy Irishman. Either way there are loads of recent immigrants heading back East as there is much more work in England (Olympics) and Germany now.

fatboypee

ceannair06 wrote: »

What about the figures of the thousands of foreign nationals on the dole ?

Please explain to me why I should have ANOTHER levy added to my tax, taking more money from me when as an Irish citizen I contribute to the pot and take nothing out.

Why on earth should people who have put nothing it get a freebie handout ?

Don't take this a racist slant as it absolutely is not. The s**m who sit round Abbey Street and Connolly day on day out getting tanked on their dole can sod off too. Plus there are thousands upon thousands of good, decent hardworking foreign nationals who work their backsides off and pay huge amounts of tax.

It's scroungers I have a problem with - but why import scroungers when we have enough of our own ?

The welfare system needs to be set up like a credit union, you only get out what you've paid in and if you need a bit extra you pay it back with interest.

I'm sick and tired of seeing my taxes go to some spotty faced little mare who got herself knocked up and now lives high on the hog on our money.

We're on the bones of our a**e at the moment in this country and EVERYONE needs to pay. Why should you get E160 a week just for having a kid ? Don't tell me people need the extra help, if you can't afford a kid then don't have one.

I heard someone just now saying "leave the social welfare alone, the workers should pay for us".

We do, and we're sick of it. Enough is enough.

The benefits system requires root and branch reform. So do many things. Yet will that happen?

We have NO infrastructure to cope with change. We have in intransigent workforce that is unionised to the point of paralysis and we continue to support a financial and social network of nepotism and cronyism. There is NO apetite to address the real issues or take the opportunity the recession presents in cleaning house in a methodical and concise manner.

I could go on and on and on. The simple truth is we see things that offend us everywhere when we are the recipient of what we feel to be unfair measures. Singling out spongers is legitimate, but its not the spongers fault per-say, they don't set out how much they get each week.


FBP.

turgon

pearcider wrote: »

Irelands tax burden is extremely low by international standards.

You fail to factor in the 16.25% payroll tax that Wikipedia claims we have.

Either way it being low relative to other countries is no excuse for a tax raise. And secondly, the low tax rates obviously helped attract FDI's and entrepreneurship during the boom. There were reasons we were the fastest growing economy in the EU you know.

pearcider wrote: »

Your beloved Danes for example, have a tax rate of 63% on high earners!

I just pulled Denmark as an example.

pearcider wrote: »

Bottom line is we can take the tax hit.

I dont doubt we can take a tax hit. However you think this is a 100% good thing, I think it is a predominantly bad thing. If you raise taxes more how many more Bonos etc are going to rightly leave the country? How many people will close their businesses (and bearing in mind small businesses are already suffering)? How many more companies will move to Poland?

You think of tax in the shallow way most people seem to. Higher tax rate = higher tax take = better for all. The rich can afford it, slap them with 60% rates. The whole economics of tax is more complex though.

pearcider wrote: »

The deficit has been caused by the collapse of our indirect, boom dependent tax base. This must be replaced by the reintroduction of the direct taxbase.

A bit wrong there. As the tax base went up so did the spending base, and the budget deficit. The government lavishly increased spending disproportionate to inflation, in a view to gaining re-election. Child benefit increased 2.5 times the rate of inflation.

The solution is not to tax more to make up for this reckless spending. The solution is to undo the reckless spending of the boom years. Get the 1990 rate of child benefit, adjust for inflation, and set it there. Theres nothing wrong with that. If x amount was good enough in 1990, why is x+inflation not good enough now?

A failure of yours is seeing things isolated within our current predicament. You see government spending policy of the boom years as "normal." It was clearly not.

pearcider wrote: »

Tax is not an evil thing. It is actually the greatest tool at our disposal to create a better society for our children. We owe them a country capable of meeting the challenges of the 21st century at the very least.

A better society? So raise taxes and prolong the recession? Your better society is where the smart kids end up paying 3/5 of what they earn to the state. And the challenges? The challenge is to regain our good economy by becoming more competitive in terms of labour etc. Raising tax will have the opposite effect.

pearcider wrote: »

If everybody paid their fair share, the world would be an immeasurably better place.

Fair is completely subjective. One could argue fair is where people pay the same rate of tax. I think the current setup is unfair, where the higher tax rate is nearly double the lower one.

pearcider wrote: »

As for your tirade about the need to incentivise people to work via the tax system, it's mostly disingenuous bull****.

Did you ever read an economics book?

pearcider wrote: »

If you earn a million and take home 350k, would you really change your lifestyle, run your business into the ground, lay off staff etc. Of course not.

No but your going to be a helluva lot less likely to start new business ventures and create new employment.

pearcider wrote: »

You're only paying back to society what that same society allowed you to create in the first place.

That is pure and utter tripe. How did society allow anyone create anything? Was society there backing O'Leary when he started flying planes? You might enjoy this post btw.

pearcider wrote: »

It's simply wrong and offensive to suggest people work for monetary incentives only.

Well its a real shame you didnt say this earlier, because I wouldnt have put so much work into this post. Obviously your blind to the economic facts. You dont like hearing what I said because it doesnt suit you. You examination of economics is utterly shallow. You dont really grasp the side effects of taxation one bit. Call it a lack of lateral thinking.

And as a final note, the last time tax rates were at your target it was the 80's. Is this where you want to be?

/waits for blundering response of "oh but that wasnt because of that, the rich ... em ... erm"

turgon

luckat wrote: »

I'm still thinking about the post that suggested that capping wages would drive away talented people. The implication is that Cowen, whose wage packet is fatter than most other prime ministers' worldwide, is an unrecognised genius. Hmm. Maybe...

Explain that "implication"

Spiritoftheseventies

techdiver wrote: »

I agree with you that it should be spread evenly, but as we all know fairness is only an illusion and rarley will the wealthy ever fell the pinch, such it life.

The reality is if we don't do anything the country is going to go down the tube. We are borrowing massive amounts to fund the public sector and the welfare system. This is just not sustainable.

End of the day there has to be freeze on on all pay rises until we get over this mess. Is lunacy to be asking for 11 per cent pay rises at this time.

jimmmy

luckat wrote: »

I'm still thinking about the post that suggested that capping wages would drive away talented people. The implication is that Cowen, whose wage packet is fatter than most other prime ministers' worldwide, is an unrecognised genius. Hmm. Maybe...

" most other prime ministers' worldwide " ? I thought Cowen is the most overpaid / highest paid p.m. in the world ? The p.m of New Zealand ( a country comparable in terms of population etc ) is only about 80 to 90 thousand euro. The rot starts at the top down. Even the head of our central bank is paid more than his equivalent in the U.S.
This country is borrowing over 30 million per DAY, at high interest rates. Its disappointing An bord snip nua did not slash public sector + politicans pay + pensions etc.

Spiritoftheseventies

jimmmy wrote: »

" most other prime ministers' worldwide " ? I thought Cowen is the most overpaid / highest paid p.m. in the world ? The p.m of New Zealand ( a country comparable in terms of population etc ) is only about 80 to 90 thousand euro. The rot starts at the top down. Even the head of our central bank is paid more than his equivalent in the U.S.
This country is borrowing over 30 million per DAY, at high interest rates. Its disappointing An bord snip nua did not slash public sector + politicans pay + pensions etc.

Yes unacceptable amounts been spent on consultancy fees and overseas trips by our politicians. end of the day poor are always hit hardest.

granturismo

irish_bob wrote: »

by european standards most of our public servants are vastly over paid , ed walsh from the university of limerick was on matt cooper earlier , irish teachers are 75% higher paid then thier french counterparts , ... somethings gotta give

Ed Walsh and the rest of the University heads formed a quango, paid from university funds ie all tax payers, to negotiate their own salaries. He's on 180K plus per annum, its very easy for the head of any university to say irish public servants are overpaid. A 10-20% pay cut for him doesnt mean as much as the same rate cut from an entry grade civil servant, teacher garda etc.

One ref here for their salaries.

http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/bestpaid-university-president-gets-836460000-more-than-others-1428003.html

whippet

jimmmy wrote: »

Its disappointing An bord snip nua did not slash public sector + politicans pay + pensions etc.

it wasn't in their terms of reference to look at pay, that is why they didn't make any recommendations on it.

Drumpot

whippet wrote: »

it wasn't in their terms of reference to look at pay, that is why they didn't make any recommendations on it.

Well thank god for that . .

Heres me thinking they were skipping around the pink elephant of public service pay . .:eek:

is_that_so

fatboypee wrote: »

In Summary....

Reading this post trail heavilly and some of the report, I'm not sure if I'm missing the trick here, but, the report was commissioned to urgently review WHERE cuts could be made to fix a public spending deficit. At best, the report appear hastilliy compiled and remarkalby desperate nd less educated that you would expect from an independent ?

What is proposed in the report is a list of "easy targets" that will get the government out of the sh1t. It pays no heed to the validity, or moral justification of the cuts, it simply proposes "You wanna save X, do Y".

We are talking of blanket cuts in public services, yet at the same time borrowing cash and then spending it in a vain attempts toshore up a massive unstable and inert financial system (the effect of which will not even become aparrent until the up-turn happens).

Instead of doing the intelligent thing and approaching cuts by looking at reforming, and improving the public services, we are simply going to enter a phase of slash and burn ? There are many, many areas where wastage is obvious, we all know where the overpaid and flaccid management lay idle, we are all acutely aware of the mammies with the six kids on the dole who drive the 08 people carriers. These things are clear as the noses on our faces.

What is irksome in the extreme to me is it appears the government do not have the wit or guile to tackle these issues AS issues and thereby save the money they require. Instead, they slash and hack away at the easiest of targets in a vain attempt to rein in spending and to part-finance the absolute cock up of a banking system.

My final point is for everyone saying "we must accept the pain, theres no point in bleating". Who is telling you this..? I understand we must accept the pain, but it should be intelligently administered by people capable of doing so. But overwhelmingly saying "no point in bleating", May God!, there is every point.
Regardless of our role as consumers in this mess, we are being led and manged by a government that appears to care more about saving it's ass and lessening the cock up by smashing easy targets than it does about trying to get the country up and running and on a proper footing.

I thought the end of days of Tony Blair's cronyism and spin was the worst political spin-show i ever saw. Until now. And, like the Brits, we're letting our government get away with it. :rolleyes:

FBP.

They were asked to identify potential cuts not public service reform, although there are hints at it from the comments on redeployment and flexibility. Judging by what you have written here you don't appear to have read enough of it. A skim through and reading our "ramblings" on it does not give the entire picture and leaves you with just the headline comments. There were submissions from every government department.

The word efficiency appears many times as does rationalisation, merge and review. Some of it is contingent on the ability to do so. As for your contention that it is rushed I suggest you read the 200 page Volume II which explains how they came to the conclusions they did.

I also think you are missing the key point here. We cannot afford the current public spend and need to do something urgent to address it. That means cuts.

And a small comment to those commenting on the "cuts". They are proposals. NONE of them have been implemented yet.

The Townie

The debate surrounding the Bord Snip report is sounding more and more like a bar stool rant. Let's remember that these are proposals and the cuts identified are a wish list that have no basis in the real world of Irish politics.
Lenihan and Cowen can now cook up some 5 year scheme to achieve some of McCarthy's targets and the saps in Cabinet will follow along like the good little boys and girls that they are.
We are feeding into the Government's mind games by failing to point out that McCarthy was given the job of coming up with a list of cuts that a politician, or any form of public servant, could never contemplate.
It's a hatchet job, so that when Lenihan announces that he's going to implement a hugely watered down version of only some of the big ticket items, then he'll proclaim once again that Fianna Fail knows best what's good for this country.
I agree that borrowing 400 million a week to run the country is a stark position for us to be in; but there's an even better reason to reform how we run the country.
It begins with getting rid of the public sector/civil service cutlure that has ruled this country since day one.
Until that changes, and the unions grip on the State is ended, there will be no change in how this country is administered.
The proposals in the Bord Snip report are just an effort to get people thinking that the 'unthinkable' could happen.
It's like showing a drug addict a coffin and suggesting they'll be inside it if they don't stop shooting-up.
Well the 'shooting-up' in this case is the culture of the public sector lifestyle and just like the addict it will be very hard to lure anyone away from the State sponsored gravy train.
It's now or never for this screwed up country of ours.
If our administration was being run with any form of professionalism dealing with this crisis would have started last August, when Brian Cowen was so busy playing golf and going on his caravan holiday.
I don't believe that this Cabinet has the slightest notion of taking the hard decisions and they're not strong enough to face down the bearded gentry in Liberty Hall.
Despite everything McCarthy has outlined this week, we can expect more of the same pathetic leadership from a washed out government in the months to come.