Statistics and Public v Private wages

Dannyboy83

Rosita wrote: »

Then you obviously did not apply for those private sectors jobs in Spar or MacDonalds that were featured in the papers about six months ago when hundreds of people were applying.

LOL, I have an IT Degree, speak 3 languages and have several industry qualifications, plus I am still in work, why would I apply for a job at Spar?

Also, I doubt there were too many people flying from Universities in the Ukraine or Dubai to apply for a job at the local spar.
There was/is a good reason that people were coming from all around to apply for an Irish Public service job

Dannyboy83

Rosita wrote: »

A Clerical Officer in the Civil Service starts on 23k. They probably net about 1.5 times what some people can receive on the dole. Hardly the stuff of mega riches in fairness.

What does the equivalent earn in the private sector? It'd be nice if we could move past the anecdotal stuff.

With an IT degree in 2005, I started on 19k and the following year I was on 21k after a promotion and shift allowance. (German company)
Following year at an American company ('07) I was on 24k, got a 3% pay rise (3% was the maximum allowed but still 3% of peanuts is peanuts) and realised that if I didn't get a job in the public sector or get highly specialised in something, I would never be able to afford a house or start a family, plus I was supplementing my income with doorwork and it was starting to take its toll.
So with nearly 4 years behind me, I was still not breaking 25k from my career job.

Went for a job in the public sector, didn't get it.
Got specialised in something instead & also got fairly lucky.
Most of my friends from college have not been so lucky.

I know people with 5 years experience in IT, degree and industry qualifications who still haven't passed 27k.
Two of my pals who basically dossed through school and became guards started on about 28k or something like that, think they're sitting at about 32k now iirc.

My father works in the public service and is always sending me ads to apply for. He says himself that at the lower levels its more balanced but in favour of the public sector with higher pay not to mention perks, but as you move up the ladder, there is honestly no comparison and I'm pretty sure hes been working longer (& a hell of a lot harder) than most people here have been breathing, lol.

I find it bizzare that people are even comparing salaries, perhaps those in the public sector have been in so long that they just don't know what the private sector is really like.

About not getting the PS Job, I'm not bitter about that in the least.
Simple fact is that compared to some of my competitors, I simply wasn't qualified.
They pay well and hopefully got the best person for the job.
IT is a funny one like that tho, a shame that couldn't be replicated across all sectors of the PS.

Conclusions:
A) The PS pay dispute is fairly indisputable, they need a reality check
We all missed the IT boat which appears to have sailed in 2001.


P.S I remember sitting in the canteen with my workmates around late 2007/early 2008 reading that the Average industrial wage was €35k per annum.
The top earner in our group was €5k short of that figure.
(I was about €10k short, but taking my second job into account I was about €3k short)

deise blue

EF wrote: »

And I know people in the private sector who have taken 0% paycut. When you average it all out, the pension levy is a more than fair contribution. Not to mention the public sector workers have also taken on board the other levies that have been introduced and will be left with less disposable income once further tax increases are brought in. It is all money coming out of the economy and away from private sector enterprise.

Quite true and indeed Bank of Ireland amongst others paid the initial 3.5% pay rise last september due under the National Wage Agreement.
The only figures available were published by the CSO which showed Private Sector wages rising by 4% in Industry and 2% in services for the year to December 2008 whereas allowing for the pension levy Public Sector wages fell by 3.4% to April 2009.
I do appreciate that things have changed in the Private Sector in 2009 but these are the only figures currently available.

Rosita

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Went for a job in the public sector, didn't get it.

There you go - you have more degrees than a protractor and you couldn't get a job in the public sector. Says it all, arguably, about the quality of candidates and hence the higher salaries.

ei.sdraob

Rosita wrote: »

There you go - you have more degrees than a protractor and you couldn't get a job in the public sector. Says it all, arguably, about the quality of candidates and hence the higher salaries.

rofl

Rosita

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

Love, we are part of a monetary union with the EU and are a small open economy competing with rest EU. IF you dont see the consequences of everyone here being paid so much more than others in EU and everything here costing so much more then i wont even bother debating with you.

So you don't have a source for this then? Grand. Glad we sorted that out.

jaqian

meglome wrote: »

Without starting another argument...

The people I work with from the civil service are all getting 50k plus, and they're not even management.

I'd love to know what they are working at and their grade? I'm a civil servant (c.o.) seven years and I'm earning 32K. Most people in my dept. are on similar wages, don't know what management are earning but 50K is way off the scale.

Rosita

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

LOL, I have an IT Degree, speak 3 languages and have several industry qualifications, plus I am still in work, why would I apply for a job at Spar?

Because the public sector wouldn't hire you?

Dannyboy83

Rosita wrote: »

Because the public sector wouldn't hire you?

I know basic comprehension is covered in the public service exams as I've sat one myself so I'll assume you must have entered back in the old days when you didn't need degrees, exams and/or basic comprehension skills.:p

As previously explained, I'm currently in employment and my qualifications and career path are in IT, so I would have no business applying for a job at spar regardless of my inadequacies.

As I'm sure you are aware, many of the older generation of civil servants in management don't have any formal education past leaving certificate.

Given that IT is relatively new and highly specialised, its unlikely this situation would occur in the various IT sectors across the PS. The same would not be true of many of the other areas of the PS as you well know.
As explained above, I approve of the PS hiring process for IT as I experienced it, as they must have acquired some excellent employees.

Compared to some of the other areas of the PS which I have experienced, it would be useful to list the ability to string a coherent sentence in English together as a pre-requisite.

P.S Having visited the social welfare office with my girlfriend recently, could I ask you to suggest to the relevant people internally, that they remove the requirement of employees of the Department of Social Welfare to be able to speak through clenched teeth.;)

Rosita

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I know basic comprehension is covered in the public service exams as I've sat one myself so I'll assume you must have entered back in the old days when you didn't need degrees, exams and/or basic comprehension skills.:p

While I do have to laugh at you feeling the need to attempt an apologia to an anonymous stranger on a discussion board for not being able to land a position in the public service, I fear it might well have been the comprehension aspect that nailed yourself based on what has gone over your head here.

I've already said on this thread what I work at and it is not in the public service. I am just sick and tired of listening to private sectors bull****ters as if half of them would know what a day's work is and as if the world owes them a living. If the public sector has it so handy and is creaming it off, why not stop whinging about it and apply for a job there? Sure even the cleaners thee are on 50k by all accounts.

And you needn't be asking me about passing on messages for you to government departments. If you are working in IT, I suspect you might not have long to wait to be able to discuss the ins and outs of Social Welfare procedures from an empirical perspective. :P

Spudmonkey

Rosita wrote: »

I am just sick and tired of listening to private sectors bull****ters as if half of them would know what a day's work is and as if the world owes them a living. If the public sector has it so handy and is creaming it off, why not stop whinging about it and apply for a job there? Sure even the cleaners thee are on 50k by all accounts.

And who would pick up the bill? Considering not everyone can go into the handy number that is the public sector?

irish_bob

Rosita wrote: »

While I do have to laugh at you feeling the need to attempt an apologia to an anonymous stranger on a discussion board for not being able to land a position in the public service, I fear it might well have been the comprehension aspect that nailed yourself based on what has gone over your head here.

I've already said on this thread what I work at and it is not in the public service. I am just sick and tired of listening to private sectors bull****ters as if half of them would know what a day's work is and as if the world owes them a living. If the public sector has it so handy and is creaming it off, why not stop whinging about it and apply for a job there? Sure even the cleaners thee are on 50k by all accounts.

And you needn't be asking me about passing on messages for you to government departments. If you are working in IT, I suspect you might not have long to wait to be able to discuss the ins and outs of Social Welfare procedures from an empirical perspective. :P

its public sector workers who think the world and specifically the irish tax payer owes them a living

sceptre

Guys?

Assume I made a generic mod request to stop the head-banging stupidity and the contest to see who can urinate highest up the wall. Assume I also inserted a long-winded paragraph about banning those who can't behave like adults talking to other adults. Assume I meant it as I always do. It would be nice if I didn't have to do this with different people every time, as most of you are capable of reading. As you'll remember, I never care who started it.

cyclopath2001

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Given that IT is relatively new

LOL The CS has been using IT for 45 years.

Dannyboy83

Rosita wrote: »

While I do have to laugh at you feeling the need to attempt an apologia to an anonymous stranger on a discussion board for not being able to land a position in the public service, I fear it might well have been the comprehension aspect that nailed yourself based on what has gone over your head here.

:rolleyes:As already explained, it wasn't an apologia, I actually praised the IT hiring process in the PS if you read back. (are we reading the same posts?)

This may surprise you, but this thread is about the imbalance that exists between private and public, so therefore that is obviously going to be the content under discussion, no?

I've already said on this thread what I work at and it is not in the public service. I am just sick and tired of listening to private sectors bull****ters as if half of them would know what a day's work is and as if the world owes them a living.

LOL, you asked for facts and I gave them to you.
Other posters have given you facts.

The facts didn't support your position, so now you are sarky?
Suit yourself, but you haven't convinced me of anything.
(even try read the reason for edit in my long winded post above)

I don't believe anyone owes me anything. I think you are overreacting.
My father works in the PS so I don't have some vendetta against them either.

If the public sector has it so handy and is creaming it off, why not stop whinging about it and apply for a job there?

Theres that word again -Comprehension.;)

Sure even the cleaners thee are on 50k by all accounts.

50k may be an exageration, but why don't you ring McKechnie's and ask them what the going rate is, then compare?

On the other hand, I knew a few cleaners in Pfizers who were on 35k+ (or claimed they were at least)

And you needn't be asking me about passing on messages for you to
government departments. If you are working in IT, I suspect you might not have long to wait to be able to discuss the ins and outs of Social Welfare procedures from an empirical perspective. :P

Luckily, I recently received a pay rise and my position is secure (lost through levies anyway), but thanks for your kind sentiments nonetheless.:rolleyes:

Rosita

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

LOL, you asked for facts and I gave them to you.
Other posters have given you facts.

You can LOL all you like. But the only "facts" you gave me was some nonsense about your work situation which made my eyes glaze over before I got half way down. This could be all made up for all I know (or care).

The only "facts" that matter are objectively verifiable facts relating to public v private sector pay and such information in the case of the former has been slow coming, with people such as yourself confusing objectively verifiable fact with anecdotal gibberish. Or perhaps quite deliberately resorting to anecdote to cover up the lack of evidential basis to what you supposed to be trying to argue.

And some other lad when asked to provide the source of his "facts" condescendingly launched into a boring tangetial monograph which proved nothing other than that he might rattle junior cert economics after a few primers.

Dannyboy83

Rosita wrote: »

You can LOL all you like. But the only "facts" you gave me was some nonsense about your work situation which made my eyes glaze over before I got half way down. This could be all made up for all I know (or care).

The only "facts" that matter are objectively verifiable facts relating to public v private sector pay and such information in the case of the former has been slow coming, with people such as yourself confusing objectively verifiable fact with anecdotal gibberish. Or perhaps quite deliberately resorting to anecdote to cover up the lack of evidential basis to what you supposed to be trying to argue.

And some other lad when asked to provide the source of his "facts" condescendingly launched into a boring tangetial monograph which proved nothing other than that he might rattle junior cert economics after a few primers.

LOL, calm down girl.:p
Apologies if my contribution wasn't to your liking (or caring).

Perhaps you could offer a few "objectively verifiable facts relating to public v private sector pay" yourself then and move the discuss forward rather than sniping all my posts? (which you didn't care about):rolleyes:

sceptre

I don't think there was part of

sceptre wrote: »

Guys?

Assume I made a generic mod request to stop the head-banging stupidity and the contest to see who can urinate highest up the wall. Assume I also inserted a long-winded paragraph about banning those who can't behave like adults talking to other adults. Assume I meant it as I always do. It would be nice if I didn't have to do this with different people every time, as most of you are capable of reading. As you'll remember, I never care who started it.

that was difficult to understand as a warning. Seven days off for the pair of you, red card apiece and please heed moderator warnings when your ban expires. Politeness to other posters is cheap.

Complaints about the above can be sent to me by PM or may be placed here.