Legal Highs

ddef

Jesus, not this hippy humping thread again...
I thought we were beyond this.

RMD

ddef wrote: »

Jesus, not this hippy humping thread again...
I thought we were beyond this.

Insightful and well constructed post, well done.

why so serious?

jarhead20 wrote: »

most of you all on here i bet havnt touched any illegal drug u do the **** from the headshops and think u have and think u know everything about drugs,yea right smoke 2 or 3 times a year and do a few yokes and have done a bit of nice IRISH coke and think your all experts hahahahaha

I have tried almost every illegal drug under the sun accept heroin, and I can tell you, most people on this thread know a lot more about drugs than you do, do you really expect to be taken seriously when you can hardly string a sentence together then get all sulky when people correct your ludicrous statements?It is quiet obvious you are very young and uneducated!

blow69

why so serious? wrote: »

I have tried almost every illegal drug under the sun accept heroin, and I can tell you, most people on this thread know a lot more about drugs than you do, do you really expect to be taken seriously when you can hardly string a sentence together then get all sulky when people correct your ludicrous statements?It is quiet obvious you are very young and uneducated!

You have taken almost every drug and also accept heroin?

Woah. Hardcore.

flahavaj

blow69 wrote: »

You have taken almost every drug and also accept heroin?

Woah. Hardcore.

Taking drugs helps your spelling obviously.

ScumLord

Pat Sheen wrote: »

In the past weeks people involved with headshops in the north have been run out of town at gunpoint, and at least one was shot in the knees.

Are you trying to highlight the dickhead behaviour in the north or just showing us how undemocratic and backward those people are?


The north is no example, they think killing someone because they don't call some field what the prick beside me calls that field is the sign of the devil. They're a bunch of retards. While someone might say you can't brand the entire of northern Ireland wit the same brush I say **** them ***** they allow it to happen. It's pretty clear, you kill some poor ****er because you think the queen is the be all and end all then your a dick. FULL STOP.

doonothing

Didn't think much of the weed substitutes, but the new "party pills" are a much better high than I've had from anything legal. Mint Mania, Grape Peps, Lime Fantasy, they all seem to be basically the same drug, but no hangover, no comedown, no discernible lack of appetite, no problem sleeping etc. The high isn't as intense, but I'd happily take that drawback for all the cleanliness of the experience. Not to say they aren't ****ing great fun!

kjl

Here boys, Ive had some pretty pure coke before. I know you are going to think its bull**** but 90% and for anyone who know the referance I got it from <snip>, but sh it man, Just had a pinch of pure methadrone last night and it seriouly got me buzzing.

I think the street name is <snip>, but you cant get it in the head shops. Its basically the "amino acid" they put in blow and white gold. It stings to **** but such a buzz.

I was at the headshop last night and met this American dude, he was the funniest person I had ever heard talking about the headshop. He basically highligted the point to me that drugs are now legal in Ireland.

Rabies

street name and name reference removed.

Boards.ie does not want people out looking this sh!t on the street.

Speaking about your experience good/bad is ok in my books. Dont know about the others. But giving reference points is a no go.

genericguy

kjl wrote: »

Its basically the "amino acid" they put in blow and white gold.

ffs, it's not a bleedin' amino acid.

BraziliaNZ

Blow is all I've tried here, used to do BZP pills sometimes in New Zealand until they banned them, would give me mother of all hangovers for 2 days or so, unable to move in bed etc. I'm glad that stuff is banned.
There were London Underground BZP-free ones called "Head Candy" and something else, these would be pretty good but keep me awake for hours and hours.
So I like Blow, but every time i'm out in town with a few pints on me now, I feel tempted to get some. So I'm trying to stay away from it/town now for a while, doesn't leave you feeling the best the next day.

Prof.Badass

kjl wrote: »

I think the street name is <snip>, but you cant get it in the head shops. Its basically the "amino acid" they put in blow and white gold. It stings to **** but such a buzz.

Ever since finding out about jwh-018 I've avoided the whole legal high scene, but are they still engaging in such morally disgusting tactics as heavily implying that the active ingredients in their products are harmless amino acids?

Dickheads.

genericguy

vinylmesh wrote: »

Ever since finding out about jwh-018 I've avoided the whole legal high scene, but are they still engaging in such morally disgusting tactics as heavily implying that the active ingredients in their products are harmless amino acids?

Dickheads.

what did you find out about jwh-018?

Pat Sheen

ScumLord wrote: »

Are you trying to highlight the dickhead behaviour in the north or just showing us how undemocratic and backward those people are?

Neither. I was trying to highlight the fact that Joe Duffy and dissident republicans both want the headshops out of business. Joe whips up a storm and the next day the guardai raid businesses and seize goods. Same thing happens with the psni when the headshops are highlighted up there. They have seized goods and in the same press release admitted the products they've seized are legal. The dissidents who are by all accounts up to their eyeballs in the illegal drugs trade, are trying to jump on a populist bandwagon and maybe at the same time get rid of the competition. Legal highs are causing ripples in a number of ponds. I've read many reports about coke dealers in the UK turning their business completely over to legals. If the legals are genuinely eating into the coke market in a country the size of the UK well,..things are getting serious. The proposed fast tracking laws in the UK, similar to the emergency scheduling system in the states, and the use of catch-all clauses like they did with cannabinoids is going to force the headshops back to the caffeine pills and yuba gold herbal crap in short order I suspect.

genericguy, jwh-018 is more than likely converted to a carcinogen in the body, and that includes oral use as well as smoking.

Prof.Badass

genericguy wrote: »

what did you find out about jwh-018?

That I had been unknowingly ingesting it those times I tried what were being sold as entirely herbal smoking blends (spice came complete with a fake list of herbal ingredients to set your mind at ease- in fact in the product descriptions on legal high websites there were assurances that the herbs in these supposed "herbal only" blends had a history of use going back centuries, further luring you into a false sense of security about their products).

You can say what you like about legal high companies just trying to avoid a ban, but that last tactic could only be purely to get more people buying their product.

Pat Sheen

Btw, what's this talk of court cases about? I heard something about one Irish supplier notifying customers of a product being permanently withdrawn.

Pace2008

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Btw, what's this talk of court cases about? I heard something about one Irish supplier notifying customers of a product being permanently withdrawn.

One of my friends was told Blow's being permanently withdrawn in the coming weeks.

Freckles..!

doonothing wrote: »

Didn't think much of the weed substitutes, but the new "party pills" are a much better high than I've had from anything legal. Mint Mania, Grape Peps, Lime Fantasy, they all seem to be basically the same drug, but no hangover, no comedown, no discernible lack of appetite, no problem sleeping etc. The high isn't as intense, but I'd happily take that drawback for all the cleanliness of the experience. Not to say they aren't ****ing great fun!

They might be better but certainly aren't very safe. I just wrote an article on head shops in which I researched what's in this party pills - things like BZP, which indeed is a cattle wormer and also considered a class A drug in the US. Ridiculous the way these things are legal. It will probably take another tragedy such as the young man dying from magic mushrooms before the govt will do something about it

Pat Sheen

Pace2008 wrote: »

One of my friends was told Blow's being permanently withdrawn in the coming weeks.

Is something in it being added to the Act?

I just wrote an article on head shops in which I researched what's in this party pills - things like BZP, which indeed is a cattle wormer and also considered a class A drug in the US. Ridiculous the way these things are legal.

BZP is already illegal.

genericguy

vinylmesh wrote: »

That I had been unknowingly ingesting it those times I tried what were being sold as entirely herbal smoking blends (spice came complete with a fake list of herbal ingredients to set your mind at ease- in fact many legal high websites claimed the herbs had been used for centuries, luring you into a false sense of security about their products).

thanks. on the upside though, it doesn't appear in the literature to be particularly harmful, but I do agree it's a bit cnutish to pretend that everything in that little bag came out of the ground.

Borneo Fnctn

I think the proliferation of legal alternatives to street drugs is a cause for great concern. We know from scientific studies and anecdotal evidence the risks associated with cannabis, cocaine, MDMA and so on. We know that some of these drugs are relatively harmless. The headshops are selling the very latest untested chemistry experiments. It might be 20 years before the full effects of these drugs are known. They describe them as "herbal" and "natural'. This is all very misleading. Snake venom and hemlock are natural for God's sake but that doesn't mean it's good for you.

The laws against drugs like cannabis are literally keeping the headshops in business. At least cannabis is a known quantity. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

genericguy

Freckles..! wrote: »

It will probably take another tragedy such as the young man dying from magic mushrooms before the govt will do something about it

did you have a billy goat for lunch?

ScumLord

Freckles..! wrote: »

Ridiculous the way these things are legal. It will probably take another tragedy such as the young man dying from magic mushrooms before the govt will do something about it

Did someone die from taking mushrooms? Or did he do something stupid while on mushrooms?

genericguy

ScumLord wrote: »

Did someone die from taking mushrooms? Or did he do something stupid while on mushrooms?

i think he might have drunk a skinful of harmless alcohol and took a harmless plunge off a balcony. but it was definitely the mushrooms that killed him. :rolleyes:

Nodin

I though they banned mushrooms years ago.......

ScumLord

Nodin wrote: »

I though they banned mushrooms years ago.......

They did, the bastards! Once they stopped selling mushrooms the headshops became useless.

Pat Sheen

genericguy wrote: »

thanks. on the upside though, it doesn't appear in the literature to be particularly harmful.

Do you know what carcinogen means?

genericguy

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Do you know what carcinogen means?

yes, i do, and i haven't seen any compelling evidence that jwh-018 is a carcinogen, in fact any studies i've seen have shown it not to have any mutagenic properties. although i certainly stand to be corrected if you'd care to produce some to the contrary.

Nodin

ScumLord wrote: »

They did, the bastards! Once they stopped selling mushrooms the headshops became useless.

As I just looked up....they banned ordinary mushrooms you might find in a field, back in 1987, if you got the 47B....Now its some other yoke.

WindSock

Borneo Fnctn wrote: »

I think the proliferation of legal alternatives to street drugs is a cause for great concern. We know from scientific studies and anecdotal evidence the risks associated with cannabis, cocaine, MDMA and so on. We know that some of these drugs are relatively harmless. The headshops are selling the very latest untested chemistry experiments. It might be 20 years before the full effects of these drugs are known. They describe them as "herbal" and "natural'. This is all very misleading. Snake venom and hemlock are natural for God's sake but that doesn't mean it's good for you.

The laws against drugs like cannabis are literally keeping the headshops in business. At least cannabis is a known quantity. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

My boyfriends' brother had a stroke over the weekend and is now on hourly checks in Intensive Care. He took some party pills in NZ. BZP is banned there, so they keep coming up with new alternatives. The Doctors had to google what was in them when he came in.

Pat Sheen

genericguy wrote: »

yes, i do, and i haven't seen any compelling evidence that jwh-018 is a carcinogen, in fact any studies i've seen have shown it not to have any mutagenic properties. although i certainly stand to be corrected if you'd care to produce some to the contrary.

I don't have the time nor the inclination to look all this stuff up. But I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Suffice to say, jwh-015 is metabolised via carcinogenic epoxide intermediates and jwh-018 almost certainly is too. How carcinogenic it may be is unknown at this point.

Herbal smoking mixes are smoked, mostly, and that smoke is carcinogenic.

WeeBushy

I'd just like to put my experience out there and hopefully it'll make people think twice before trying any of them.

I have over the years tried 'herbal drugs' on a couple of occasions with no adverse side-effects, they've always been fairly enjoyable experiences. Until Saturday night.

I was at a party, reasonably drunk, but in no way messy, and a friend took out some smoke. I was in a good mood and thought 'what the hell, this'll be fun'. Three drags later I passed out, fell on the ground and hit my head off the table.

I went through the most terrifying few minutes of my life when I blacked out. I was completely removed from reality, and in my head I was falling uncontrollably through different scenarios, places and experiences, all the while feeling completely out of control and helpless. It felt like it was never going to end. It was the most horrible thing that has ever happened to me. It still scares me to think about it.

I was brought to hospital where I stayed for the night until it was out of my system and they let me go home. I was lucky that there was no serious or long-term damage done.

All that happened from just a few drags, of something I'd taken before without any problems.

So while they might be fun, just remember that they are completely unregulated and untested, and can have devastating side-effects.

I've learned my lesson and would never be able to do any of those drugs, legal or illegal, again. Unfortunately the embarrassment and shame will take longer to go away.

Maybe my stupidity will stop you guys from from going through something similar.

ScumLord

WeeBushy wrote: »

So while they might be fun, just remember that they are completely unregulated and untested, and can have devastating side-effects.

It's hardly devastating. You went on some mad trip but you where freaked out by it being so unexpected. If you'd known going in that would happen it probably wouldn't have freaked you out as much. Some people would have paid good money for that experience.

WeeBushy

ScumLord wrote: »

It's hardly devastating. You went on some mad trip but you where freaked out by it being so unexpected. If you'd known going in that would happen it probably wouldn't have freaked you out as much. Some people would have paid good money for that experience.

I dunno how anyone would pay good money for that. There was nothing good about it.

Nodin

WeeBushy wrote: »

I dunno how anyone would pay good money for that. There was nothing good about it.

Aren't they fairly specific in stating not to mix that stuff with alcohol?

xzanti

WeeBushy wrote: »

I'd just like to put my experience out there and hopefully it'll make people think twice before trying any of them.

I have over the years tried 'herbal drugs' on a couple of occasions with no adverse side-effects, they've always been fairly enjoyable experiences. Until Saturday night.

I was at a party, reasonably drunk, but in no way messy, and a friend took out some smoke. I was in a good mood and thought 'what the hell, this'll be fun'. Three drags later I passed out, fell on the ground and hit my head off the table.

I went through the most terrifying few minutes of my life when I blacked out. I was completely removed from reality, and in my head I was falling uncontrollably through different scenarios, places and experiences, all the while feeling completely out of control and helpless. It felt like it was never going to end. It was the most horrible thing that has ever happened to me. It still scares me to think about it.

I was brought to hospital where I stayed for the night until it was out of my system and they let me go home. I was lucky that there was no serious or long-term damage done.

All that happened from just a few drags, of something I'd taken before without any problems.

So while they might be fun, just remember that they are completely unregulated and untested, and can have devastating side-effects.

I've learned my lesson and would never be able to do any of those drugs, legal or illegal, again. Unfortunately the embarrassment and shame will take longer to go away.

Maybe my stupidity will stop you guys from from going through something similar.

lol

Sir Gallagher

WeeBushy wrote: »

I'd just like to put my experience out there and hopefully it'll make people think twice before trying any of them.

I have over the years tried 'herbal drugs' on a couple of occasions with no adverse side-effects, they've always been fairly enjoyable experiences. Until Saturday night.

I was at a party, reasonably drunk, but in no way messy, and a friend took out some smoke. I was in a good mood and thought 'what the hell, this'll be fun'. Three drags later I passed out, fell on the ground and hit my head off the table.

I went through the most terrifying few minutes of my life when I blacked out. I was completely removed from reality, and in my head I was falling uncontrollably through different scenarios, places and experiences, all the while feeling completely out of control and helpless. It felt like it was never going to end. It was the most horrible thing that has ever happened to me. It still scares me to think about it.

I was brought to hospital where I stayed for the night until it was out of my system and they let me go home. I was lucky that there was no serious or long-term damage done.

All that happened from just a few drags, of something I'd taken before without any problems.

So while they might be fun, just remember that they are completely unregulated and untested, and can have devastating side-effects.

I've learned my lesson and would never be able to do any of those drugs, legal or illegal, again. Unfortunately the embarrassment and shame will take longer to go away.

Maybe my stupidity will stop you guys from from going through something similar.

Sounds like the first time "a friend of mine" done ket.. it was great.

thebang

Hey guys,

Id just like to add something small to the discussion

this piece of legalisation deals with designer drugs in the United States and it has seemed to be effective

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act

Now im not saying just because this law has been successful in that jurisdiction it would be successful here, but maybe its worthy of discussion, and hopefully someone of the legal persuasion can tell me if the legislation would be enforceable here

Now what seems to be an 'analog' under this fact seems to be a subjective manner, but maybe it takes its cues from pharmaceutical patent law or something similar.

By the way my background is in pharmacology, and think the rise of such substance is quite dangerous, as even if they seemed safe (which they dont) without large amounts of clinical data it is impossible to be sure.

psilocybe

Pat Sheen wrote: »

genericguy, jwh-018 is more than likely converted to a carcinogen in the body, and that includes oral use as well as smoking.

Reference please? I don't even like the stuff but there's enough misinformation and confusion floating around without another unsubtantiated claim. The JWH series are relatively well researched so if what you say is true it won't be much hassle for you to find a reference.

kjl

genericguy wrote: »

ffs, it's not a bleedin' amino acid.

duh, its the methadrone. I think if you actually read my post you would have seen it was in quotation marks because that's what its says in the ingredients list

GiftofGab

WeeBushy wrote: »

I'd just like to put my experience out there and hopefully it'll make people think twice before trying any of them.

I have over the years tried 'herbal drugs' on a couple of occasions with no adverse side-effects, they've always been fairly enjoyable experiences. Until Saturday night.

I was at a party, reasonably drunk, but in no way messy, and a friend took out some smoke. I was in a good mood and thought 'what the hell, this'll be fun'. Three drags later I passed out, fell on the ground and hit my head off the table.

I went through the most terrifying few minutes of my life when I blacked out. I was completely removed from reality, and in my head I was falling uncontrollably through different scenarios, places and experiences, all the while feeling completely out of control and helpless. It felt like it was never going to end. It was the most horrible thing that has ever happened to me. It still scares me to think about it.

I was brought to hospital where I stayed for the night until it was out of my system and they let me go home. I was lucky that there was no serious or long-term damage done.

All that happened from just a few drags, of something I'd taken before without any problems.

So while they might be fun, just remember that they are completely unregulated and untested, and can have devastating side-effects.

I've learned my lesson and would never be able to do any of those drugs, legal or illegal, again. Unfortunately the embarrassment and shame will take longer to go away.

Maybe my stupidity will stop you guys from from going through something similar.

Thats Salvia man. I've never done it but I know people who have and described the exact same experience. You only need a few puffs and the effects only last a few minutes. The trips are so intense that the guys I've spoken to wouldn't touch it again.

genericguy

psilocybe wrote: »

Reference please? I don't even like the stuff but there's enough misinformation and confusion floating around without another unsubtantiated claim. The JWH series are relatively well researched so if what you say is true it won't be much hassle for you to find a reference.

i agree - i've been on the literature a fair bit this afternoon and haven't come across anything substantiating this. i found study after study showing no mutagenicity or cytotoxicity, but nothing with carcinogenicity. i will concede though that the substance is too new for any long term effects/ bioaccumulation work to have been done.

oh kjl re: the 'amino acid' in blow - sorry, i didn't pick up on the sarcasm.

EI111

thebang wrote: »

Now what seems to be an 'analog' under this fact seems to be a subjective manner, but maybe it takes its cues from pharmaceutical patent law or something similar.

This is a big problem. I think laws should be explicit. That's just my opinion though and I wouldn't even begin to try to suggest the right course of action but I think you should know exactly where you stand with a law.

kincsem

Legal High: Appointed as counsel on a tribunal.

psilocybe

kjl wrote: »

duh, its the methadrone. I think if you actually read my post you would have seen it was in quotation marks because that's what its says in the ingredients list

I'm going to assume you mean mephedrone. Methedrone (4-methoxymethcathinone or bk-PMMA) and mephedrone (4-methylmethcathinone) are are two separate compounds, the former probably being far more dangerous than the latter.

I don't mean to be a pedant but a distinction needs to be made here due to methedrone having some extremely dangerous cousins, PMA and 4-MTA.

ScumLord

GiftofGab wrote: »

Thats Salvia man. I've never done it but I know people who have and described the exact same experience. You only need a few puffs and the effects only last a few minutes. The trips are so intense that the guys I've spoken to wouldn't touch it again.

Yeah, actually that sounds possible. Both times I did it I was drunk and I don't know if it was the drink but it had a sort of sinister end to the trip.

Prof.Badass

thebang wrote: »

Hey guys,

Id just like to add something small to the discussion

this piece of legalisation deals with designer drugs in the United States and it has seemed to be effective

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act

I can think of plenty of recreationally viable chemicals that are not illegal in the US. They haven't even banned the common synthetic cannabinoids yet.

It's all down to the availability of knowledge on the internet really. People will keep coming up with new drugs that fall outside the barriers (which can't be too strict or else they'll harm industry), as they have been doing since bzp first came out.

However, the more new drugs that come into use the higher the chances of something really nasty comes into use.

It would seem to me that the only way to stop this madness would be to legalise a range of replacements for street drugs/research chemicals that have minimal health consequences (obviously addiction and overdose would still apply but even these could be reduced). Get the pharmaceutical industry involved and you could have a whole range of new safe drugs, except this time they'd all be tested rigourously before being released into the market. In terms of addiction I don't see how this could be any worse than the headshop setup we have now.

genericguy

ScumLord wrote: »

Yeah, actually that sounds possible. Both times I did it I was drunk and I don't know if it was the drink but it had a sort of sinister end to the trip.

the story you told about your trips was outstanding man. outstanding

mloc

WeeBushy wrote: »

I was at a party, reasonably drunk, but in no way messy, and a friend took out some smoke. I was in a good mood and thought 'what the hell, this'll be fun'. Three drags later I passed out, fell on the ground and hit my head off the table.

This didn't perchance happen at a house in the Donnybrook area did it?

mloc

Personally I take a progressive view to drug control; I'm not in favour of all out prohibition of everything intoxicating other than alcohol and tobacco (our lovely taxable poisons).

However, I do think there needs to be more transparency on whats actually in these products. The law is screwing itself here, as usual with drug policy. By prohibiting these drugs to be sold intended for human consumption, the label gymnastics the manufacturers are resorting to means that the true composition of the product is rarely if ever printed on it, instead replaced by a essentially a BS list of fillers and misleading information.

The fact that they are then sold as legal products over the counters in shops gives customers, particularly, in my experience, younger guys, a false sense of security that what they are taking is safe.

The potency of some of the newer stuff, particularly the coke alternatives, is very high and mephadrone based products in particular can be compulsive in use. If anything should be done, clear and complete labelling should be compulsory. The way things are at the moment, legal drugs suffer from the same problems are their illegal counterparts; there's no way to be absolutely sure what you are taking. I've noticed in the last few months a huge amount of younger guys taking coke substitutes in large amounts, where the same guys would be much less likely to take anything illegal, particularly through insufflation. The "ah but its the legal stuff" excuse doesn't work for me; it's meaningless in every way beyond the fact possession won't leave you in trouble with the law.