Legal Highs

Odysseus

ScumLord wrote: »

I think just about everything out of the headshop feels like ephedrine or speed. It's just an energy high with none of the buzz you'd get from coke or MDMA. It also doesn't melt to well and is gritty from what I remember. The only time I mixed the stuff from the headshop with yolks was the most horrible experience I've had on drugs. I was awake for two days but absolutely shattered, it made the comedown 20 times worse. Haven't really touched them since.

Cheeers mate, I have no personal experience of them, but that would be my understanding of them too. That's why I asked the question most of these addicts would be long term users. Now I know the quality of street drugs in Ireland is poor, but I found it unusal that this type of addict would use something from a headshop. I wonder what it shows as in urine results, this may have something to do with it.

Odysseus

ScumLord wrote: »

BBC Horizon did a show on pills we take over our lifetime (legal, medical stuff) and they make the accusation that the only reason codeine is in there is to get people addicted as the levels are so low it can't have any medical or pain relief qualities.

Yeah, but the psych side of addiction is the most potent side of it, and that's the area I work in. People make the drug, its what they import as the function it has in their life, well that my viewpoint. Some drugs may be addictive, but lots of people can use them for various reasons without becoming addicted. The drug itself does not make the addict.

Jay P

I had something called King B a few weeks ago, it's something you smoke. It scared the crap out of me. I suddenly got twice as drunk and could barely see.

Legal highs in general scare me tbh...

electrogrimey

I tried Blow for the first time the other night, and had a great time. First line did nothing, second one did it. Felt like having one or two weak pills, but with very little comedown.

Moist Bread

Robitussin is my favourite legal high.

Red_Marauder

I just sit in with the Late Late, have a cup of cocoa, then pop some E and end up salivating naked in the carpark again.

At least you know what you're getting!

CorkMan

when I was in Madrid in 2008 no one period was drunk out and about. if the locals even caught a whiff of alcohol when passing they would look you up and down. Just goes to show variations in culture.

On the other hand, if you picture O Connell Street, as the centre of Madrid, down Henry Street there were about 15-20 prostitutes standing at the side eyeing you up, in 2 o clock broad daytime. The police outnumbering them at least 2 to 1, but you could still get a ride for 50 yoyos still.

I dunno

ScumLord

CorkMan wrote: »

when I was in Madrid in 2008 no one period was drunk out and about. if the locals even caught a whiff of alcohol when passing they would look you up and down. Just goes to show variations in culture.

On the other hand, if you picture O Connell Street, as the centre of Madrid, down Henry Street there were about 15-20 prostitutes standing at the side eyeing you up, in 2 o clock broad daytime. The police outnumbering them at least 2 to 1, but you could still get a ride for 50 yoyos still.

I dunno

Never been to Barcelona then? The place is over run with prostitutes and thief's. They also like their drugs in Spain from what I've seen, weed is everywhere.

Red Hand

I like escalators. They get me there gently.

Red_Marauder

CorkMan wrote: »

but you could still get a ride for 50 yoyos still.

Entry into typical nightclub on Dublin's Harcourt Street: 8 Euro.
Also guaranteed a ride. With bonus Gonorrhea.

Amalgam

Just a heads up.

Prime Time

RTE 1

Tuesday - 26 January 2010

9.30pm

'The Booming Trade in Legal Highs'

Hauk

Amalgam wrote: »

Just a heads up.

Prime Time

RTE 1

Tuesday - 26 January 2010

9.30pm

'The Booming Trade in Legal Highs'

It will be interesting to see what RTE's take on this is. If it's all scare-mongering I'll have to write a strongly worded letter.

My name is URL

Hauk wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what RTE's take on this is. If it's all scare-mongering I'll have to write a strongly worded letter.

Of course that's what it will be. I bet they'll also have an in depth account of how magic mushrooms made that guy kill himself 5 years ago, and how much good making them illegal has done

Amalgam

The ad for it is very tabloid (Lyric FM of all places), Dublin accents thick as stew.. claiming that 'Es are legal'.

Hauk

My name is URL wrote: »

Of course that's what it will be. I bet they'll also have an in depth account of how magic mushrooms made that guy kill himself 5 years ago, and how much good making them illegal has done

Yeah, you're right. Reason and scientific evidence holds no weight when it comes to this crap.

electrogrimey

Hauk wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what RTE's take on this is. If it's all scare-mongering I'll have to write a strongly worded letter.

Knowing RTE 1,I can't imagine it'll be anything but right-wing rhetoric about how everything that isn't alcohol, nicotine or codeine will kill you. RTE 2 would have done a better take on it.

BBC 3's effort was decent enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvAN45b6dg

Prof.Badass

ScumLord wrote: »

BBC Horizon did a show on pills we take over our lifetime (legal, medical stuff) and they make the accusation that the only reason codeine is in there is to get people addicted as the levels are so low it can't have any medical or pain relief qualities.

haha, unless you extract it . . :eek:. .

Yeah, you're right. Reason and scientific evidence holds no weight when it comes to this crap.

Didn't prime time once do a show saying the war on drugs should be ended?

That being said I can't see this coming out favouribly for the headshops.

I really hope they'll use this opportunity to educate the public, spend a good amount of time talking about the chemicals involved (naming the top brands and saying what's in them) rather than just throwing out phrases like "plant food", "bath salts" and "cattle de-wormer".

With an RTÉ budget they should be able to test all the products and list their ingredients. Of course that would require insight and preparation rather than just throwing a show together on whatever's topical to appease the masses.

Btw, apparently the irish daily mail sent snow and blow to be tested and both contained mephedrone, they also tested charge+, but we alreay knew what was in that . I found myself in the awkward position of actually wishing they had an online version.

ToTheSea:

electrogrimey wrote: »

Knowing RTE 1,I can't imagine it'll be anything but right-wing rhetoric about how everything that isn't alcohol, nicotine or codeine will kill you. RTE 2 would have done a better take on it.

BBC 3's effort was decent enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrvAN45b6dg

Yeah, I watch all 6 parts of that one day. Been into a few headshops myself and always presumed "sure I'm only smoking natural herbs etc". After seeing that I do think twice about what i smoke. I still buy the smoke xxxx stuff, now and then, which is good, but only if the real stuff isn't available.

I am cutting back on it all though. I feel it's sort of "been there, done that" with a lot of drugs.

g5fd6ow0hseima

My name is URL wrote: »

Of course that's what it will be. I bet they'll also have an in depth account of how magic mushrooms made that guy kill himself 5 years ago, and how much good making them illegal has done

Nobody ever discussed the possibility of a plain old suicide.... but im not going to either. It was them goddam mind expanding drugs

rubadub

Evangeline Chubby Aircraft wrote: »

Nobody ever discussed the possibility of a plain old suicide.

It was mentioned in several threads at the time of the ban. I forget the term for it but many people will commit suicide in an apparently accidental manner so the families involved have something else to blame, like a guy might purposely crash his car. The guy was drinking and had a partial dose of mushrooms -the booze is not even really mentioned by the media while I think alcohol plays a part in something like 70%+ of all suicides. Its bizarre that they ignore the legal high which such an obvious history in suicides & accidents.

The irony is that the ban on magic mushrooms could result in far more suicides than it would cause. It is a well known cure for clusterheadaches, AKA suicide headaches since the users experience such pain that they often will resort to suicide. The traditional medicine only partially relieves them and can cost €50-100 per dose so is not feasible for many, and it only lasts several hours. While psiliocybin doses at threshold levels of intoxication can fully relive people for a year.

www.clusterheadaches.com

I have seen his brothers facebook page which as a petition to close down "headshops". I just had a glance and again could find no actual idea on how to do this, i.e. how do you legally describe a "head shop", if it has drug paraphernalia then most supermarkets fall under that definition. I did not want to read much as they hypocrisy of stuff like this really bugs me a lot, he certainly did not consider alcohol to be a legal high along with the others -utter hypocritical madness. A few people on his page did question how irrational the whole thing was, with pathetic responses. People are tiptoeing around the elephant in the room of how illogical & stupid the campaign is for fear of offending -it really disgusts me since if some grieving mother had asked for alcohol to be banned due son dying due to it they would not be given the time of day.

g5fd6ow0hseima

The same is going on in my hometown Roscommon, with a group of 'concerned parents' protesting over the opening of a headshop, and campaigning for its closure. Its funny that all these people, some chain smokers, not just drink alcohol, but gladly give their kids money to go get ****ed drunk at the weekends....

I left a few comments on their facebook profile they set up but you cant help but feel like your arguing about gun laws with an Alabama redneck...

Big Nasty

Minister demands ban on legal highs

Tuesday January 26 2010
The drugs minister has demanded immediate action to ban legal highs being sold in so-called "head shops".
John Curran said he was concerned over the health risks of stimulants known as party pills and that Ireland might become a dumping ground for the drugs after a number of them were outlawed in the UK.
It is believed dozens of head shops have opened in towns around the country in the last few months - some open until 4am at weekends and offering delivery service.
"The products that are being sold in head shops - I simply don't want them sold in this country," the minister said.
Mr Curran told the Regional Drugs Task Forces conference on legal highs that health minister Mary Harney has been asked to move on banning party pills under the Misuse of Drugs Act.
Last March Mrs Harney banned the stimulant BZP - designed as a cattle dewormer in the 1940s but recently sold as an alternative to ecstasy - amid a groundswell of complaints.
Mr Curran backed calls for bans on other legal highs such as Smoke XXX - promoted as "so close to the real thing" but "not for human consumption".
"My view, and maybe people don't agree with me, but my view is that they pose an unnecessary risk," he said.
"I think if you listen to health professionals talk of the evidence of people presenting in A&E, I simply don't want them sold.
"In that regard I'd prefer to try to use legislation under the Misuse of Drugs and so forth to try to restrict them rather than to license them."
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/minister-demands-ban-on-legal-highs-2032530.html

Amalgam

That's going to be some 'catch-all' legislation!

I wonder how they'll phrase it..

sbsquarepants

vinylmesh wrote: »

haha, unless you extract it . . :eek:. .



Btw, apparently the irish daily mail sent snow and blow to be tested and both contained mephedrone, they also tested charge+, but we alreay knew what was in that . .

What is in it? I wouldn't imagine it's mephedrone, not in any sort of concentration anyway. Whatever it is, it's not worth the money!!

mannequinhands

The big problem is that things like alcohol and tobacco are socially acceptable and party pills smoke slavia etc arent therefore they will always be demonized when it comes to these sad circumstances.

Mike 1972

Minister demands ban on legal highs

WTF ?

rubadub

MCMLXXV wrote: »

The drugs minister has demanded immediate action to ban legal highs being sold in so-called "head shops".[/url]

I have still got to hear anybodys legal description of a head shop. And WTF is a "party pill" in legal terms.

Amalgam wrote: »

That's going to be some 'catch-all' legislation!

I wonder how they'll phrase it..

Yeah, seems a really foolish thing to say, like when Lenihan threatened to reverse the duty decrease on legal highs in the last budget if the head shops did not pass it on, I'd say they were quaking in their boots.

I think if you listen to health professionals talk of the evidence of people presenting in A&E,

I think they would tell you the massively overwhelming majority of people in A&E are on one particular legal high, probably a far higher amount even when taking percentage users into account.

strobe

Amalgam wrote: »

That's going to be some 'catch-all' legislation!

I wonder how they'll phrase it..

They'll phrase it pretty much identically to the UK law, like they always do.

TheGod

strobe wrote: »

They'll phrase it pretty much identically to the UK law, like they always do.

I'd say the drug dealers will be delighted. Those who bought legal pills and powders from the headshops will now be back to buying from their friendly local drug dealers.

The recession was hard for our countries gangsters, its time for the goverment to put this right and create some business for our underworld bretheren.

Prof.Badass

sbsquarepants wrote: »

What is in it? I wouldn't imagine it's mephedrone, not in any sort of concentration anyway. Whatever it is, it's not worth the money!!

3-FMC, a close relative of flephedrone.

mr biazzi

Prime time are covering this subject tonight. i doubt it will be as good as the bbc one as i doubt the presenter is gonna try the legal highs.

Mike 1972

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Entry into typical nightclub on Dublin's Harcourt Street: 8 Euro.
Also guaranteed a ride. With bonus Gonorrhea.

If not can one get their eight euro back ?

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

Of course that's what it will be. I bet they'll also have an in depth account of how magic mushrooms made that guy kill himself 5 years ago, and how much good making them illegal has done

Well that didn't take long.. lol, 4 minutes in

kraggy

Some brass balls coming on and saying he was selling bath salts and didn't think his customers were consuming the goods. (Jim Bellamy, proprietor of head shop).

That plant food (mephedrone) sounds well dodgy. I wouldn't be taking it anyway.

Odysseus

I work in the addiction area; I am surprised at the amount of new head shops I have seen in the past year, especially the amount of new ones outside Dublin. I have only looked at a few of them, I sure if I checked out all the stuff being sold and the ingredients they contain I might not be fully happy with them.

I also aware that some of my colleagues have treated people for various problems with some of the stuff they sell. However, I’m sure someone will correct me on this, I'm guessing that headshops have been open in Ireland for at least 4 years. During that time I have never treated anyone for addiction problems or associated psychological harm for any substance from a headshop.

I don't claim to have the answers, and I'm sure that some people have encountered either addiction problems or psychological problems associated to these substances. However, prohibition is not going to stop any of those problems.

I taught many students over the years, and I always recommend one book to start with called "Living with Drugs". The title says it all really, people have been using some form of substance since we moved out of caves and it will never stop.

I'm not saying that everybody should do drugs, but people will make choices. Making them a criminal because of it has never worked. Certain drugs can exacerbate certain psychological conditions, and other have quite a strong addictive potential. Banning them hasn't stopped people from using them. Instead of this constant "war" on drugs, why not put some of that time, money and energy into helping those for whom drugs become a problem, and leave those who appear to have the ability to use certain drugs with a negative impact on their life alone

df1985

all this talk and coverage just makes me want to try these legal highs to be honest!

not the effect the media are wanting im sure.

Asmodean

i don't understand why anyone would even want to consider shoving these things in their bodies.

Hauk

There's only one way I can describe how stupid that report was, and it's a good old keyboard mashing:

dfohi sJFWRE098YJ43Q90T4GJIAD151U Y5DOFSPXDE2
zegw ngnkkgeq240UT 039QYUQO[REG[QJ09UJG30

Continuing on from this, I see the "think of the children" crowd are out in force in Roscommon.

A few points of lolz:

1) After that guy finished his report outside the head shop, by some sort of magical(lol shrooms wut?) coincidence, four lads in school uniforms with long hair walked past the shop.

2) That guy saying, "I prefer to call them 'not illegal' drugs". DA FOOK?

3) I could see that they were going to bring up that guy Colin who killed himself to re-enforce their argument.

4) Find the two dodgiest ****ers on talbot st and promise them some money to go on the program.

5) The DIT people. "OMG WE TESTED THEM, THEY'RE BAD. BANZOR."

6) I've never heard of someone on LSD walk in front of traffic.

7) Can't really say much about the minister, only he is a tool, and he kept staring at the presenters cleavage.

8) That head of A&E. "We've seen maybe a dozen cases of people hallucinating." He probably saw that number last night in alcohol abuse cases.

Nice and one sided, but to be expected from RTE.

I hope they leave salvia alone.

carchaeologist

kraggy wrote: »

Some brass balls coming on and saying he was selling bath salts and didn't think his customers were consuming the goods. (Jim Bellamy, proprietor of head shop).

I laughed at how he kept a straight face,that was impressive,and a shelf of bongs behind him!!

Asmodean

OMG WE TESTED THEM, THEY'RE BAD. BANZOR

Ah nice, so I presume you have a degree in clinical biochemistry so?

Hauk

Asmodean wrote: »

Ah nice, so I presume you have a degree in clinical biochemistry so?

Of course I don't, but it was evident that that chemist was playing it up for the camera.

TheGod

df1985 wrote: »

all this talk and coverage just makes me want to try these legal highs to be honest!

not the effect the media are wanting im sure.

Funny you should say that, I was watching the programme with my mother and brother when mid way through my brother's phone rang. It went something along the lines of

Brother : "Yeah I'm watching it, its crazy"

At this point my mother is nodding in approval believing they are talking about how crazily unsafe these drugs are

Brother : "Yeah I think theres one off grafton street, I'll be up to you in 10 minutes"


Que look of absolute horror on my mother's face who had been listening to Joe Duffy all week and is on a crusade against these things.

Mother : "YOUR NOT GOING TO GO TO ONE OF THOSE SHOPS AND BUY SOME OF THOSE DRUGS ARE YOU?"

to which my brother replied, dead serious

"God no, I was talking about the luas stop."


Don't think my mom bought it

Asmodean

Not really to be honest, everything she said was true. Put aside for one minute the argument about the toxicity etc of these compunds. Where is the legislation that covers the proper procedure for quality assuance and quality control of these substances? I thinm you'll find it is nowhere to be found.

Hauk

Asmodean wrote: »

Not really to be honest, everything she said was true. Put aside for one minute the argument about the toxicity etc of these compunds. Where is the legislation that covers the proper procedure for quality assuance and quality control of these substances? I thinm you'll find it is nowhere to be found.

I agree. The head shops are as much to blame for not even trying to work with Govt to seek approval for these substances. It was only a matter of time before the loop hole would come under critiscism.

Asmodean

Exactly. There are dozens of medications that could be as dangerous as these ' legal highs' but at least such medicines are under strict supervision/routine testing etc and a lot of research has gone into the possible long term effects. It terrifies me to think of some of the possible long term effects that might crop up for regular users of these highs.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Asmodean wrote: »

i don't understand why anyone would even want to consider shoving these things in their bodies.

I guess a little read-up on the psychology of drug-taking is needed.

Hauk

Asmodean wrote: »

It terrifies me to think of some of the possible long term effects that might crop up for regular users of these highs.

Yeah, if the headshops sought approval from the FSAI, they may have a better footing. And to be honest, the argument of the headshop owner they had on was quite weak. Albeit he had to say that to cover himself.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Hauk wrote: »

I agree. The head shops are as much to blame for not even trying to work with Govt to seek approval for these substances. It was only a matter of time before the loop hole would come under critiscism.

The main aim of any business if profit. We're talking about business ethics here. Its the governments job to step in and regulate this sector of the economy. Why should the headshop owners volunteer? Stringent vetting procedures should have been manditory since their arrival on irish streets...

Hauk

Evangeline Chubby Aircraft wrote: »

The main aim of any business if profit. We're talking about business ethics here. Its the governments job to step in and regulate this sector of the economy. Why should the headshop owners volunteer? Stringent vetting procedures should have been manditory since their arrival on irish streets...

Yeah, you're right. I'll admit I was wrong on that one.

After all, they are selling a legal product, and running the shops as a business. As it stands now, no law has been broken.

Asmodean

Yeah it's fairly insulting to the country to be able to get away with selling this stuff by offering up an almost childlike excuse. As you said, if they are going to get away with it they will continue to sell as the buyers will always be there. The owness is on the Govt to step up to the plate. It's a terrible shame that the law is so muddy regarding these new compunds and substances. People tend to go with the notion that 'If it isn't illegal sure it has to be safe.'