Legal Highs

flowersagogo

Piste wrote: »

God I got so indignant at the Frontline tonight. Maybe I'll write a strongly worded letter to my local councillors and TDs, or rant on Facebook or something.

piste you off a bit then?

Odysseus

GiftofGab wrote: »

I'm still undecided on this arguement. On one hand business is being taken away from aggressive criminals who lace these drugs with dangerous subtances such as rat poison.

No to say this doesn't happen, but it is very very rare. Though there are bad batchs over that that come into circulation every so often. They want people coming back, not dead.

yogy

Surprised at how balanced it was. Fair play to Pat Kenny, really doing a good job on The Frontline.
Stuart Clarke made very good points. Both Doctors, although having first hand experienced of the negative aspects seemed to favour regulation.

One sad thing, which unfortunately reflects the society we live in was that Ming made some very good, articulate points and didn't get a single clap while the auld, incoherent knacker who was waffling ****e off a paddy power slip did.

So the Doctors who know most about the situation were in favour while the lesser educated and more ignorant politicians, parents etc. called for blanket banning.

A good result all round, particularly compared to all the usual, highly negative, biased media coverage.

Piste

While the "WONT YOU PLEEEEEEEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???" brigade really grind my gears, I agree that the debate was surprisingly balanced. The people in favour of head shops all agreed that changes need to be made and the sector needed to be highly regulated. They werent just drugged up hippies spouting their mouths off, they seemed intelligent and articulate, as opposed to various audience members who sem regurgitated what Joe Duffy told them too.

One of the speakers hit the nail on the head when he said that policy in this country is not decided by ministers, it's decided by Joe Duffy. Even the A&E doc who was obviously brought on to criticise head shops was very fair. He didn't call for an outright ban, he wanted investigations into the various products to be carried out. RTE researchers obviously were just looking for an A&E doc who'd be like "yeah all the headshops stuff is awful, we see loads of people having terrible reactions." God forbid they might find a doctor who would say "haven't come across anyone who took these before, but a significant proportion of our admissions in A&E are from alcohol".

The idiots who get their opinions from scaremongering shows such as Joe Duffy seem to think the issue is either we ban all headshops and the substances they sell, or we let anyone buy them, no matter how young or intoxicated. God forbid we manage to strike a healthy balance and have strict legislation governing the area.

EI111

GiftofGab wrote: »

dangerous subtances such as rat poison.

Just because something is rat poison doesn't mean it's dangerous e.g. warfarin.

AKA pat sheen

From yesterdays guardian:

Mephedrone: classifying 'legal highs'

Until we know the real harm of legal recreational drugs such as mephedrone, they should be put into a holding 'class D'

Last month at a Lancaster nightclub, seven people were arrested for possession of a drug, even though the policeman leading the arrest team made it clear that the drug was not illegal. This was not the first time the police had exhibited such behaviour in relation to this drug, so what is leading to this apparently irrational police behaviour? The drug in question is mephedrone [not to be confused with the opioid substitute treatment methadone], a synthetic stimulant drug that is relatively new on the UK drug scene although it has been popular in Israel for a number of years.

Mephedrone is one of a number of so-called "legal highs" – these are drugs that users find pleasurable but which are not yet illegal, and indeed may never be. Mephedrone goes under various trade names such as "meow meow", "plant food" and "bubbles", terms derived from its chemical structure, commercial uses and subjective effects respectively. It is readily available from "head shops" and is popular with university students and other groups of clubbers. Its pharmacology is hardly studied but it is chemically related to the amphetamines. Users describe effects that suggest its actions are between those of amphetamine (speed) and MDMA (ecstasy); it activates, energises and makes them feel good but is relatively short-lasting.

There are several reasons for its current popularity. Mephedrone is sold as the pure substance, so users know what they are getting. This contrasts with current street supplies of ecstasy and speed, which are often very low quality after being cut with inactive agents and may even contain some other, more dangerous, drugs such as methylamphetamine. Another reason for its popularity is that it is legal, so can be purchased without having to make contact with drug dealers who may pressure buyers towards other drugs, and currently there is no risk of a criminal record from being caught with it. In contrast, being caught in possession of MDMA and other class A drugs means one risks up to seven years in prison, and for amphetamines [class B], five years. Users see benefits in avoiding the limitations to their careers that a prosecution for drug possession would bring. Prior to the rise of mephedrone, another stimulant known as BZP was popular, but the government has recently made this a class C drug, which may have displaced users to mephedrone.

Is mephedrone harmful? Because its use is so recent there is relatively little evidence on this point, but from its pharmacology we could not make the assumption that it would be completely safe, especially at high doses. Users report effects such as a faster heart rate as one would expect from a stimulant. In the UK, there have been scare stories of mephedrone deaths, but so far none has been proven, though mephedrone was involved in the death of a Swedish teenager in 2008. The Israel experience was that it could lead to repetitive use and stereotyped behaviours in some users consistent with the likely release of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the brain.

The European Monitoring Centre on Drugs and Drug Abuse (EMCDDA) is currently gathering Europe-wide evidence of use and harms to decide if mephedrone should be made illegal by the EU. The government would be advised to wait until this report is published, rather than rushing now to make changes to the classification system.

Last year, the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) suggested that new drugs of uncertain harm might be put into a holding class – such as the "class D" approach adopted by New Zealand several years ago to deal with BZP with some success. Drugs in class D are allowed to be sold in limited quantities to adults, with appropriate warnings of health risks and advice on safe use. Manufacturers are licensed, provided they comply with quality control of manufacture and report sales on a regular basis. This allows an accurate knowledge of the use of the drug against which harms such as hospital presentations can be compared so that a good estimate of harm/use ratio can be obtained; an informed decision can then be made whether to make the drug illegal or not. Mephedrone would seem an ideal candidate for instigating such a holding class in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/01/drugs-mephedrone-class-d

ottostreet

no-one gave a crap about headshops until two weeks ago.

goes to show you the power of negative media.

i dont have a problem with headshops or what they sell, as long as whatever is purchased is consumed behind closed doors, the same way alcohol is. (or supposed to be anyway)

brendansmith

The best legal high for me was winning my first case as a lawyer.

Mr. Presentable

penguin88 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, was there any warning/info on the packet about how to use them?

Add to water 50:1 and apply to the weeds when you expect the weather to be dry?

Elevator

ottostreet wrote: »

no-one gave a crap about headshops until two weeks ago.

goes to show you the power of negative media.

i dont have a problem with headshops or what they sell, as long as whatever is purchased is consumed behind closed doors, the same way alcohol is. (or supposed to be anyway)

Like the off-licences that have popped up in every shop and petrol station the length and breath of the country. They are located right beside schools in my locality but nobdy raving around here to shut them down to save the kids.

Mr. Presentable

Elevator wrote: »

Like the off-licences that have popped up in every shop and petrol station the length and breath of the country. They are located right beside schools in my locality but nobdy raving around here to shut them down to save the kids.

Because they are regulated, legislated and their goods are controlled and monitored. Neither can they operate all day.

Elevator

nipplenuts wrote: »

Because they are regulated, legislated and their goods are controlled and monitored. Neither can they operate all day.

regulated to the point of being impossible to gain access to when you're underage is it?

legislated to the point where the vintners association/politics are to close for comfort. controlled and monitored to the point of closing the offys at 10.00 am sure has sorted out our excessive drinking habits and turned things right around overnight,

last time i checked they are open all day every day excluding "good fri", christmas day and of course sunday when because of some bullcrap sabbath day we cant buy alcohol til lunchtime instead of 11 am (correct me if i am wrong but dont be drinking that much to know the ins and outs of it all)

the government dont have a clue what they are at cos not so long ago all they and their fat cat friends in the drinks industry were worried about were the drop in sales in pubs so they closed the offys early, as far as i could see it did nothing to stop the procurement of cheap drink, then came xmas and everyone was going up north so they decide that a return to normal vat price will sort that hahahaha, all the while they hadnt a clue that people were getting high and slowly losing the will to care about your offys or your closing times.

how i laughed last night at the prospect of this government being so far removed from reality these days and so stuck for a few bob that we might actually see a change in policy concerning all drugs and if they dont change their own minds Brussels will do it for them, thank you lisbon, i know i voted no but i can see now we are not capable of running our own affairs or making decisions

Mr. Presentable

Elevator wrote: »

regulated to the point of being impossible to gain access to when you're underage is it?

legislated to the point where the vintners association/politics are to close for comfort. controlled and monitored to the point of closing the offys at 10.00 am sure has sorted out our excessive drinking habits and turned things right around overnight,

last time i checked they are open all day every day excluding "good fri", christmas day and of course sunday when because of some bullcrap sabbath day we cant buy alcohol til lunchtime instead of 11 am (correct me if i am wrong but dont be drinking that much to know the ins and outs of it all)

the government dont have a clue what they are at cos not so long ago all they and their fat cat friends in the drinks industry were worried about were the drop in sales in pubs so they closed the offys early, as far as i could see it did nothing to stop the procurement of cheap drink, then came xmas and everyone was going up north so they decide that a return to normal vat price will sort that hahahaha, all the while they hadnt a clue that people were getting high and slowly losing the will to care about your offys or your closing times.

how i laughed last night at the prospect of this government being so far removed from reality these days and so stuck for a few bob that we might actually see a change in policy concerning all drugs and if they dont change their own minds Brussels will do it for them, thank you lisbon, i know i voted no but i can see now we are not capable of running our own affairs or making decisions

Okaaay...so a lot of your post is just a meandering aimless rant, but I'll briefly address the bits that make sense.

Off licences (a retail outlet) close at 22:00. They don't stay open all night. There is a legal requirement that they check the age of their customer if there's a question. If they are caught selling to underage or indeed selling home-made vodka, they are punishable by law. Contrast with shops selling chemicals with no rules as to who can buy them or control over the content. No rules as to what opening hours there are.

I know the situation is not perfect, but you cannot seriously use the fact that a 16 year old might get served in an off license to OK a 13 year-old buying weed killer for ingestion.

Cheap Thrills!

Its a mephedemic! :P

xzanti

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Its a mephedemic! :P

Your username is very apt to this thread :pac:

Pace2008

caseyann wrote: »

I quoted something i actually saw on TV and was broadcast and the people in the program were checked to see if in fact was true.They had all their medical history as proof of fact that legal highs are overly dangerous.

Do you have a link to this documentary, or can you at least tell me what it was called? So far your evidence is 'something' you saw on an unnamed TV program and an anonymous comment that could have been written by anyone. Not exactly empirical.

Even if there's an element of truth in what you're saying, you seem to be extrapolating some pretty suspect information from what you've heard. To date, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that GBL withdrawal can be fatal, and I see no reason why the patient had to IV the drug given that it's perfectly active orally.

I don't care take them and believe you are safe,they didn't know cigarettes and alcohol were bad for you years ago did they? :rolleyes:
Just because sold in shop the warnings are not real :P

Where did I say or even imply that they ("they" being a huge array of vastly different compounds that you seem to have conflated into one evil entity) are safe?

AnonoBoy

ottostreet wrote: »

no-one gave a crap about headshops until two weeks ago.

That's not really true. News programmes ran stories about them every so often over the past few years.

It's just the sudden surge in shops opening and Joe Duffy's campaign against them which have brought them more into the public eye.

AnonoBoy

Pace2008 wrote: »

Do you have a link to this documentary, or can you at least tell me what it was called? So far your evidence is 'something' you saw on an unnamed TV program and an anonymous comment that could have been written by anyone. Not exactly empirical.

Even if there's an element of truth in what you're saying, you seem to be extrapolating some pretty suspect information from what you've heard. To date, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that GBL withdrawal can be fatal, and I see no reason why the patient had to IV the drug given that it's perfectly active orally.

Where did I say or even imply that they ("they" being a huge array of vastly different compounds that you seem to have conflated into one evil entity) are safe?

Caseyann is banned from AH so can't respond.

MaybeLogic

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Caseyann is banned from AH so can't respond.

What did she do? :rolleyes:

genericguy

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Caseyann is banned from AH so can't respond.

sitting at home under the bridge eating billy goats no doubt.

Pace2008

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Caseyann is banned from AH so can't respond.

Alright, thanks.

I'd imagine the response would be equally satisfactory in either case.

Cheap Thrills!

xzanti wrote: »

Your username is very apt to this thread :pac:

Thanks <displays self pompously>

Elevator

nipplenuts wrote: »

Okaaay...so a lot of your post is just a meandering aimless rant, but I'll briefly address the bits that make sense.

Off licences (a retail outlet) close at 22:00. They don't stay open all night. There is a legal requirement that they check the age of their customer if there's a question. If they are caught selling to underage or indeed selling home-made vodka, they are punishable by law. Contrast with shops selling chemicals with no rules as to who can buy them or control over the content. No rules as to what opening hours there are.

I know the situation is not perfect, but you cannot seriously use the fact that a 16 year old might get served in an off license to OK a 13 year-old buying weed killer for ingestion.

i never said such a thing, I like the way you used 16 year old in your alcohol analagy but dropped to 13 for the killer jwh 018 tch substitute, my friends worked in the 1st head shops of Galway and I have friends workng in the others today and not one of them would ever sell to underage groups or friends of underagers buying it for them.

dasdog

Accoring to RTE

Legal highs under the following six headings are to be banned:

Synthetic Cannabinoids, including well-known brands such as Spice.

BZP derivatives. BZP was banned here last March.

Mephedrone, better known as Snow or Blow and is the fourth most popular club drug, Methylone and related cathinones

GBL and 1,4BD, which is better known as liquid ecstasy

Hate that kids. I'm actually a little suprised they didn't broaden it out to include more but not suprised with the ban stance. Shame, because there seemed to be a slight opportunity to address the underlying problem.

darragh16

What about smoke and salvia??

HalloweenJack

I just read the little piece on eircom.net they had about the Gov going to ban products that can be sold in headshops.

The Government says the move - under the Misuse of Drugs Act - will mean head shops will not be able to sell the so-called 'legal highs' from June.

The bit highlighted shows the bias a lot of the media have when it comes to this topic.

GiftofGab

Awe well. Did anybody actually believe the government was going to keep letting these Headshops opening up? Come on, it was only a matter of time.

rubadub

barochoc wrote: »

You're NOT supposed to drink alcohol with them. Why do people choose to ignore the instructions?

Because mammy drinks booze, so it must be harmless. Its like these idiots who think they are addicted to cannabis, and then you find out they are really smoking "irish joints", low quality hash mixed with the most addictive substance known to man. When combining tobacco with its threshold psychoactive effects with cannabis you are creating an even more addictive polydrug combination as not only is it the most addictive substance known, you have associated it with a decent high. It would be like an alcoholic who does not like straight vodka saying he is hooked on 7up since thats what he mixes his vodka with.

darragh16 wrote: »

What about smoke and salvia??

Smoke probably has the cannibinoids, salvia would be a waste of time, no point squandering money on the legislation involved in banning it. It is not widely used, and poses no threat to the publicans. That frontline program was crazy, I turned on midway, alcohol was mentioned several times and they kept saying "if we were starting out again (of if discovered today) it would not be legal", but nobody asked why not ban it now. If everybody was so certain it would be banned if discovered today, they ban other drugs in widespread use once they discover they are harmful, why is alcohol the exception.

I hope salvia is not banned especially with its potential for therapeutic use. As I posted before.

Therapeutic potential

Aside from individual reports of self-medicated use in the treatment of depression, research suggests that Salvia divinorum, in line with the studied effects of other k-opioid agonists, may have further therapeutic potential.

Thomas Prisinzano, assistant professor of medicinal and natural products chemistry at the University of Iowa, has suggested that salvia may help treat cocaine addiction

You can give a rat free access to cocaine, give them free access to Salvinorin A, and they stop taking cocaine.
—Masis 2007-02-28 (US Media)

Professor Bryan L. Roth, director of the National Institute on Mental Health's Psychoactive Drug Screening Program, has said

We think that drugs derived from the active ingredient could be useful for a range of diseases: Alzheimer's, depression, schizophrenia, chronic pain and even AIDS or HIV.
—Viren 2007-08-23 (US Media)

Clinical pharmacologist John Mendelsohn has also said

There may be some derivatives that could be made that would actually be active against cancer and HIV [...] At the present time, there are a lot of therapeutic targets that have many people excited.

An ABC news story which reported on this went on to suggest "the excitement could vanish overnight if the federal government criminalized the sale or possession of salvia, as the Drug Enforcement Agency is considering doing right now." A proposed Schedule I classification would mean (among other things) that there's no "currently accepted medical use" as far as the United States government is concerned. Scientists worry that such legislation would restrict further work. Mendelsohn said scheduling salvia could scare away a great deal of research and development into salvia's therapeutic promise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum#Therapeutic_potential

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN24424552

Thomas Prisinzano, an assistant professor of medicinal and natural products chemistry at the University of Iowa, said salvia may help doctors treat cocaine addicts.

He is doing trials on rats to test Salvinorin A, the active ingredient in salvia divinorum leaves, as a remedy to cocaine and methamphetamine addiction. The research is funded by a grant from the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

"You can give a rat free access to cocaine, give them free access to Salvinorin A, and they stop taking cocaine," Prisinzano said, explaining that the goal of his project is to change the structure of the Salvinorin A molecule to retain its anti-addictive properties, while eliminating the hallucinogenic effects. There are currently no anti-addiction medicines for cocaine and methamphetamine users.

GiftofGab wrote: »

Awe well. Did anybody actually believe the government was going to keep letting these Headshops opening up? Come on, it was only a matter of time.

I don't understand, what are they doing anything to stop them opening? all I thought they were doing was banning a handful of legal highs? As I said many times before I see no way they can ban "headshops", they have been around for years before any of these "soon to be banned drugs" were even being sold in them.

fcussen

GiftofGab wrote: »

Come on, it was only a matter of time.

Timing is exactly the issue. Why is it that head shops have only become such a big controversy in what's likely to be an election year for a lame duck government?

dasdog

darragh16 wrote: »

What about smoke and salvia??

smoke
Grow your own.

salvia
Not listed as a soon to be banned substance although I believe its banned in the US. A very interesting plant and like DMT something that is used to treat addiction problems (heroin) as well as recreationally.

Kurtosis

dasdog wrote: »

A very interesting plant and like DMT something that is used to treat addiction problems (heroin) as well as recreationally.

It is a potentially very useful plant if some of its active substances (salvinorums) can be used in the treatment of addiction (especially cocaine addiction where there is no real treatment at the moment).

Of course if its therapeutic potential is realised and if it is used to treat addiction, that will likely put an end to its recreational use or at least its legal availability without a prescription.

Elevator

It's not like all drugs aren't available tho so I really don't see the point in what they do, we'll all still have a wicked summer if we want to ;-)

who are they kidding eh?

ddef

just out of curiosity, what will these be called when they are banned?
illegal legal highs?

DepecheHead101

Looks like all the proper natural stuff is staying legal. Good stuff. Although I imagine that Colin Whatshisnames blokes brother won't be too happy about that. Smart, well adjusted people from all walks of life get pissed, do Salvia, and fly off appartment blocks like crazy these days.

As for what's being banned : Synthetic Cannabanoids will cover all the smoking products, so be on the look out for Cannabanoid free versions which do absoloutely nothing. These came out recently in the UK and made a lot of people very angry.

Mephedrone, BZP derivitaves, GBL and the like will cover pretty much every stimulation product they sell, from the pills to the powders.

That looks to be about it. The stimulation and smoking products were the two big sellers. Looks like we are left with Salvia, LSA containing baby woodrose seeds, Fly Agaric mushrooms, and a few other bits and pieces down the less recreational side of the scale.

ChemOC

I don't think the Irish can deal with scientific data. With that in mind, Ireland will never regulate Cannabis or any other drug.

The government has gotten the foot out and gone about banning some of the legal highs. http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0303/drugs.html

These include BZP and its derivatives. Will this make any difference to consumption of mind altering drugs? Surely legalization of cannabis and certain other relatively safe drugs (BZP would be a prime candidate) would be the smarter argument. Here is a scientific paper on BZP: http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/118-1227/1784/

After seeing the Frontline and how the general public is completely oblivious to the want of society for drugs (alcohol, tobacco, weed etc.). There were people in the audience that were obese and I'd imagine drinkers and smokers who wanted the blood of people that use drugs. In Ireland alcohol and tobacco are not seen as drugs this is a major problem.

I doubt Ireland will ever have a debate where scientific evidence is allowed a proper voice. Anecdotal evidence is what matters here, unfortunately.

Shulgin

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

Looks like all the proper natural stuff is staying legal. Good stuff. Although I imagine that Colin Whatshisnames blokes brother won't be too happy about that. Smart, well adjusted people from all walks of life get pissed, do Salvia, and fly off appartment blocks like crazy these days.

As for what's being banned : Synthetic Cannabanoids will cover all the smoking products, so be on the look out for Cannabanoid free versions which do absoloutely nothing. These came out recently in the UK and made a lot of people very angry.

Mephedrone, BZP derivitaves, GBL and the like will cover pretty much every stimulation product they sell, from the pills to the powders.

That looks to be about it. The stimulation and smoking products were the two big sellers. Looks like we are left with Salvia, LSA containing baby woodrose seeds, Fly Agaric mushrooms, and a few other bits and pieces down the less recreational side of the scale.

Im sure they will just replace the cannabonoids in the smoking blends with different unscheduled versions, like they did in germany and the uk recently. Also there are numerous stimulants ready and waiting to be released on to the market after the current range are banned.

This solves nothing.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/head-shop-substances-to-be-banned-2086255.html

They mention that Ketamine will be banned too. Does this mean it was legal all along? Also, don`t vets use it all of the time. How can it be just banned?

syklops

Forget scientific evidence. Talk the language of the Irish government - Tax.

Instead of de-criminalizing cannabis, they should setup state-owned government-run head shops, where they sell cannabis and other soft drugs which have been bought legitimately, tested, made sure to comply with health and safety standards, and tax it.

Take the money out of the drug dealers pocket and put it in the exchequers.

Put it to Brian Lenihan/Cowen that way, and you will get much further.

Quazzie

Leave the drugs to the dealers. At least we know what we're getting with them.

AKA pat sheen

Shulgin wrote: »

Im sure they will just replace the cannabonoids in the smoking blends with different unscheduled versions, like they did in germany and the uk recently. Also there are numerous stimulants ready and waiting to be released on to the market after the current range are banned.

This solves nothing.

The UK banned almost every known variation of synthetic cannabinoids. UK blends are duds now. Germany, and other european countries, banned only a few cannabinoids and so it's likely they still have active blends on sale.

Shulgin

Quazzie wrote: »

Leave the drugs to the dealers. At least we know what we're getting with them.

I`m assuming you are referring to illegal dealers?
Well we haven`t a clue what we are getting with them in a lot of cases. Who the hell knows what cocaine is cut with, Is there any mdma in the latest pills going around or is it packed with bzp goodness . Who the hell knows?

Also, not everyone has access to dodgy drug dealers. Everyone should have safe access to their drug of choice, and the government should help not hinder and criminalize its citizens.

Shulgin

AKA pat sheen wrote: »

The UK banned almost every known variation of synthetic cannabinoids. UK blends are duds now. Germany, and other european countries, banned only a few cannabinoids and so it's likely they still have active blends on sale.

So are the cannabinoids on the latest ban list going to be a carbon copy of the UK?

AKA pat sheen

Shulgin wrote: »

So are the cannabinoids on the latest ban list going to be a carbon copy of the UK?

I'm afraid that is very likely going by the wording in those press reports.

Warper

Quazzie wrote: »

Leave the drugs to the dealers. At least we know what we're getting with them.

You have this the wrong way around.

DepecheHead101

Quazzie wrote: »

Leave the drugs to the dealers. At least we know what we're getting with them.

Your taking the mick, right?

A good lesson to the young people in this thread on how Irish government policy is formed. It's not who makes the most sense or who is the most reasonable - it's who shouts the loudest that will always win.

super_furry

Joe Duffy for Taoiseach!

sbsquarepants

More nanny state nonsense, appeal to the joe duffy brigades highly tuned sense of moral outrage about everything and anything they don't understand. Has anyone seen the film "reefer madness", it's a 1920's (i think) propaganda film that was used to whip up hysteria to criminalise cannabis in the states. Loveable church going, god fearing kid, turns into ted bundy after 2 puffs of a joint and the american equivalent of the joe duffys bought into it, this is exactly the same. It was basically driven by the tobacco lobby. Without wanting to sound like a conspiracy theory nut job, how much impact does people sitting at home and taking this stuff with their mates effect the pub trade for example? Don't buy that poison, buy our poison. Plus it distracts from the crappy job the government are doing in every other aspect of their remit. F.uck the economy, the environment and everything else, won't someone please think of the children! Why yes, fianna fail will. We should just get super nanny to agree to rule over us and be done with it.

dasdog

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

A good lesson to the young people in this thread on how Irish government policy is formed. It's not who makes the most sense or who is the most reasonable - it's who shouts the loudest that will always win.

Indeed. Or who is willing to make the largest "donation". In this case though Cardinal Joe and the Legion of Mary have cried foul enough to get their way and support was accross all parties. Vincent Browne made some interesting comments yesterday asking what great damage are these shops really doing and will EU trade agreements have any impact on stopping the ban.

dr.bollocko

People will either move on to the next unregulated high with similar effects or go back to pills and coke. This stops nothing. In fact it just makes things worse. But because morons can't point to a person and call 'em a drug dealer they think, somehow, that they've won. When in fact all they've done is proved how ****ing stupid they are in thinking that a ban on a range of new drugs will do anything to stop drug use in young people.
Idiots.

super_furry

People are going to always want to get ****ed up. Be it legal highs, illegal highs, glue, paint or fecking Lynx cans. By not regulating it, the government send it underground, make it more dangerous and line the pockets of criminals.