Legal Highs

Andy-Pandy

Legalise cannabis and MDMA, they have both shown that there pretty harmless (as harmfull as booze anyway) and people are never gonna not be able to get them , or want to do them.

Vertigo100

MDMA is far less harmful than alcohol. Poor an post is gonna collapse in may due to the obscene amount of mephedrone being ordered to stock up before the ban. Then we will have the RC opiates come out from the wings. I can see problems with them more than the RC stimulants though.

Lenno87

They should all be banned, they are extremely dangerous.

dr.bollocko

Vertigo100 wrote: »

MDMA is far less harmful than alcohol.

Unfortunately to say something like that you need to back it up with some evidence. Which luckily enough is reasonably easy to come across.

Lenno87 wrote: »

They should all be banned, they are extremely dangerous.

Well Joe, tell us please how you came to that conclusion?

cork60

I have heard it's going to be similar to the ban in the Uk. Does that mean the products which are still for sale in the Uk like Charge+ and other party pills still be legal here?

Vertigo100

Vertigo100 wrote: »

MDMA is far less harmful than alcohol. Poor an post is gonna collapse in may due to the obscene amount of mephedrone being ordered to stock up before the ban. Then we will have the RC opiates come out from the wings. I can see problems with them more than the RC stimulants though.

What would they be?

DepecheHead101

cork60 wrote: »

I have heard it's going to be similar to the ban in the Uk. Does that mean the products which are still for sale in the Uk like Charge+ and other party pills still be legal here?

No, the UK have yet to ban Mephedrone which is why you can still get the powder and pill products over there.

As for RC opiates, I can't see them going to the bother of doing that. Sure you can stock up on Codeine in any pharmacy in the country.

cork60

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

No, the UK have yet to ban Mephedrone which is why you can still get the powder and pill products over there.

As for RC opiates, I can't see them going to the bother of doing that. Sure you can stock up on Codeine in any pharmacy in the country.

But I dont think it's Mephdrone see here <SNIP>

It says half way down "This product is not Mephedrone, M-Cat, Meow, Methadrone, Felphedrone. It is another unknown 'smoother more coke like' cathinone analogue."

DepecheHead101

cork60 wrote: »

But I dont think it's Mephdrone see here <SNIP>
It says half way down "This product is not Mephedrone, M-Cat, Meow, Methadrone, Felphedrone. It is another unknown 'smoother more coke like' cathinone analogue."

Hmm ... in that case all the cathinone analogues should be covered in the ban too. I expect it to be a blanket ban all around. So say instead of banning a few synthetic cannabanoids, they will ban cannabanoids full stop, or something to that effect anyway.

Get ready for an early wave of completely ineffective products come June.

The Master

No linking to on-line drug shops please folks

cork60

The Master wrote: »

No linking to on-line drug shops please folks

Sorry bout that Just refering to a statement!!

AKA pat sheen

The Master wrote: »

No linking to on-line drug shops please folks

Is that a new rule? It never applied in the past. I'm not bothered either way just wondering. Until the law is changed such substances are still legal and no prosecution can be made on a law that hasn't be defined, in case it's some kind of legal worries you have for boards. Spam is spam though.

Cheap Thrills!

Its not a blanket ban. They're not going to use the 'analog to' proviso, so hopefully there is someone busy in a Chinese lab sythesising a nice replacement as we speak.

I am not one bit suprised at the half arsed ban. The 'expert' they had on the news last night thought meph wass similar to coke :rolleyes: wheras its is obviously much closer to MDMA in effect, being a strong empathogen.

The only effect this will have is that the profits from the mephedemic will now go straight into the pockets of those baldy tattooed thugs you try to ignore in the Sunday rags. Sigh. And the quality will worsen to the level of street drugs. Great.

I wouldn't give a fcuk about the pseudo weed/smoke products because frankly why would anyone buy that muck instead of the real thing anyway.

Bumbling handling of the whole thing as per fcuking usual by the clowns that make up the 'Government'

rgt320q

super_furry wrote: »

People are going to always want to get ****ed up. Be it legal highs, illegal highs, glue, paint or fecking Lynx cans. By not regulating it, the government send it underground, make it more dangerous and line the pockets of criminals.

Exactly, sure I remember doing the young entrepreneurs thing in school a few years back and making a couple pennies with some friends off selling 'lines' of multicoloured sugar and the odd bit of sherbert out of the tuck shop. A few other lads were using spraypaint as part of their business and were charging people to put on the facemasks and spray it through them to get a "deadly buzz". The fact of the matter is, many "kids" are going to experiment and try getting bollocked out of their minds no matter the legality of whatever it is they're doing. Here, we have a chance to regulate these chemicals and provide safer alternatives to whatever else may be out there.

Of course, any system that's implemented will not be infallible; just look at alcohol, a lot of kids can get their hands on it through older friends, siblings, even parents. Whether legal or not, some will get their hands on these products, so it has now become our responsibility to research these chemicals and learn to deal with it if/when they do get their hands on them. And the same can go for adults who completely ignore the instructions on the packets.

AKA pat sheen

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Its not a blanket ban. They're not going to use the 'analog to' proviso

We'll do what the UK do as per fcuking usual. Look how they're now planning to expand the BZP ban to a catch all. Just like the UK did. All signals from that camp are that bk's will be rounded up, both the innoncent and the guilty. Welcome to Irelandshire!

Cheap Thrills!

^^shower of backward cnuts :mad:

I hate this dump of a hole and all the reactionary simpletons that run it.

ARGH.

DepecheHead101

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Its not a blanket ban. They're not going to use the 'analog to' proviso, so hopefully there is someone busy in a Chinese lab sythesising a nice replacement as we speak.

I am not one bit suprised at the half arsed ban. The 'expert' they had on the news last night thought meph wass similar to coke :rolleyes: wheras its is obviously much closer to MDMA in effect, being a strong empathogen.

The only effect this will have is that the profits from the mephedemic will now go straight into the pockets of those baldy tattooed thugs you try to ignore in the Sunday rags. Sigh. And the quality will worsen to the level of street drugs. Great.

I wouldn't give a fcuk about the pseudo weed/smoke products because frankly why would anyone buy that muck instead of the real thing anyway.

Bumbling handling of the whole thing as per fcuking usual by the clowns that make up the 'Government'

Because unless you are lucky with your contacts a bag of some of the newer synthetic stuff is far cheaper and stronger. And it almost certainly lasts longer. Mind you by stronger I don't mean better. Good green is better in every way, but the Irish smoke soap like crazy. Quality is not one of our priorities .

I know people who can make a tenner of the herbal hash last twice as long as FIFTY worth of weed. When you look at it like that ...

Cheap Thrills!

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

Because unless you are lucky with your contacts a bag of some of the newer synthetic stuff is far cheaper and stronger. And it almost certainly lasts longer. Mind you by stronger I don't mean better. Good green is better in every way, but the Irish smoke soap like crazy. Quality is not one of our priorities .

Good green and pollen is all I smoke. I wouldn't consider I'd be exceptionally lucky with contacts either. But never run short.

I've smoked for 22 years and it would be a sad day where I would have to buy fake legal smoke!!!

Vertigo100

Sure you can buy codiene over the counter but from what I have heard the research chemical opiates will be very potent and be very addictive too. Still I don't agree with the ban. Adults should choose what they put in their bodies! If it's not an analog ban then I know people who have tried some of thebotber research chemicals that are only waiting to be released and the word on them is good.

billymitchell

DarkJager wrote: »

Assume you tried it as well then Degsy? It really is a ****ing nightmare once you come down off it. Being unable to sleep at all makes things so much worse, you have no option but to suffer through it

Sounds like an absolute barrel of laughs.......

Vertigo100

Can't sleep? Benzos are your friend

AKA pat sheen

Vertigo100 wrote: »

Adults should choose what they put in their bodies!

That puts the onus on the headshops to accurately inform their customers about the contents of their products.

sbsquarepants

Lenno87 wrote: »

They should all be banned, they are extremely dangerous.

You know else is dangerous, lets see, eh....matches, scissors, motorbikes, cookers, hammers, lawnmowers, ladders.....hang on, this could take a while.

But you know what the most dangerous thing of all is?
Uninformed hysteria. This country is f.ucked!

Cheap Thrills!

AKA pat sheen wrote: »

That puts the onus on the headshops to accurately inform their customers about the contents of their products.

Huh, that'd require the sort of elegant, incisive legislation that is beyond the grasp of the cabbages running the country.....back to plan B.

Vertigo100

Agree with you completely pat that's why I don't by from the headshops unless very stuck and even then I have reasesrched the products on line to have a fair idea what rc is in it. On line vendors ftw!

DepecheHead101

Not that what they are doing is right but to play devils advocate, if they had put on the back of Snow ''Contains Mephedrone. You will be rushing your titties off. Snort with care'' the headshops would have been gone a long, long time ago.

sbsquarepants

AKA pat sheen wrote: »

That puts the onus on the headshops to accurately inform their customers about the contents of their products.

I hate to burst your bubble Pat. But the bloody food companies won't accurately inform us of the contents of their products despite it being a "legal requirement" for decades. That guaranteed irish shepherds pie you happily wolfed down last night, most likely came from argentina and so on.

northsidedave

AKA pat sheen wrote: »

That puts the onus on the headshops to accurately inform their customers about the contents of their products.

and dealers put the acurate ingrediants on the bag bags of illegal sh@t they sell?

Head shops cannot put any kind of accurate information on packaging because then their products would be subject to medicine regulations. They must specifically state that they are not to be taken by people by claiming they are bath salts or other such rubbish. They are for human consumption and they are not bath salts or anything else other than psychoactive substances. Blaming head shops for this is completely ridiculous.

This is why there is no logic to prohibitionist arguments: complain that we don't know what's in the "legal high" products, and instead of campaigning for them to be properly regulated and sold with accurate safety and dosage information, call for them to be banned. What happens then? The infinitely more unscrupulous and scummy dealers who revel in organised crime then move on and begin selling them, making the situation even more dangerous than before.

cork60

What do you think the reason would be for not covering analogs in the ban? And do ye think they will in the future??

Kurtosis

Deleted User wrote: »

Head shops cannot put any kind of accurate information on packaging because then their products would be subject to medicine regulations. They must specifically state that they are not to be taken by people by claiming they are bath salts or other such rubbish. They are for human consumption and they are not bath salts or anything else other than psychoactive substances. Blaming head shops for this is completely ridiculous.

But who is to blame for this then?

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Got my letter to the editor published in the Drogheda independant today. It is not the subject of head shops. Goes along the lines of this:

Dear Sir
With all the recent publicity surrounding headshops and the push to bring in legislation to close those shops I think we need to stop and really consider this move.

People have taken drugs ever since man walked out of Africa. As long as there are people to take drugs, drugs will be taken. Prohibition does not work. It has been tried in the United States and failed. I firmly believe that as long as people want to take drugs they will continue to do so. Surely it is better that the public pay tax on these substances rather than just letting the business fall into criminal hands. There is no denying that the drugs business is booming. I think ,as a country facing financial armageddon, we need to get every cent of taxes we can. Head shops are an easy target. As far as I am aware the headshop owners are not involved in extortion, recketeering, murder and smuggleing.

Do we really need to nanny people so much that we control what they do. I don't see the point in trying to protect people from themselves. It would be very stupid of me to drink bleech. It would be very stupid of me to eat plant food. If that's what people want to do why are we stopping them. Darwin must be turning in his grave. People talk about protecting children from these drugs. Surely this is the job of the parents and schools to educate our youth. We try to protect them from alcohol as much as we can but we are all still aware of the huge drinking culture among teens in Drogheda.

The arguments for banning these substances just don't cut it with me. If you ban a substance tomorrow , as a pharacist I could change that substance to something completely different and legal again and repackage in about 72 hours. We need to educate people. Telling an Irishman not to do something almost guarantees he will try it. We are too conservative in this country and need to address our problems head on and not take the easy way out all the time.

Another problem with banning headshops is that even if there were none in Ireland I could buy fresh new legal highs online without having to even find a headshop. How are customs going to tell whether or not I want my wormer for my cattle or to ingest myself. Simply banning the headshops is just not an option in my opinion.

Yours,
Mr Third Testicle

Cheap Thrills!

cork60 wrote: »

What do you think the reason would be for not covering analogs in the ban? And do ye think they will in the future??

...fast track legislation*




*sloppy admin

Did you actually get that printed?

ToniTuddle

Bit lazy to go through all the pages! Whats the deal with Methadrone?

Kurtosis

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Whats the deal with Methadrone?

What's the deal with it? Buy one get one free, I think.

wylo

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Bit lazy to go through all the pages! Whats the deal with Methadrone?

lol thats like when your dad walks into the room at the end of a conversation and goes 'what?'

LoopyLaura

My legal high,

a triple shot skinny latte in storbucks.

g5fd6ow0hseima

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Bit lazy to go through all the pages! Whats the deal with Methadrone?

I safely say that meph is far more dangerous than MDMA. Sadly though, given the ineptness of this country, along with the UK, when it comes to drug legislation, the only foreseeable eventuality will be the arrival of a new, equally toxic drug, on the market. Thats the problem with designer drugs - how do you battle against them?

It always reverts back to, and for all the right reasons, the legalise cannabis debate. Sadly though, this government lacks any sort of progressive outlook so all that will happen is these substances will be banned; the natural outcome will be that these drugs will be offloaded to the 'real boys' and in turn chopped down and passed off as the real deal on the streets. So we all arrive at a situation far worse off than the present where people will be no longer aware of what exactly they're buying; yet still getting ****ed up on drugs, because humans will always take drugs - something many governments acknowledged decades ago.... ah Ireland....

Evangeline Chubby Aircraft

Evangeline Chubby Aircraft wrote: »

I safely say that meph is far more dangerous than MDMA. Sadly though, given the ineptness of this country, along with the UK, when it comes to drug legislation, the only foreseeable eventuality will be the arrival of a new, equally toxic drug, on the market. Thats the problem with designer drugs - how do you battle against them?

It always reverts back to, and for all the right reasons, the legalise cannabis debate. Sadly though, this government lacks any sort of progressive outlook so all that will happen is these substances will be banned; the natural outcome will be that these drugs will be offloaded to the 'real boys' and in turn chopped down and passed off as the real deal on the streets. So we all arrive at a situation far worse off than the present where people will be no longer aware of what exactly they're buying; yet still getting ****ed up on drugs, because humans will always take drugs - something many governments acknowledged decades ago.... ah Ireland....

The only way to legalise something like mdma would be to make small quantities prohibitively expensive. Say 100 euro for a small enough dose. The good points to this would be that 90+ euro of it could be taken in tax to fund serious drug rehabilitation programs, because no matter what drug it is, some people will always take it too far.
The problem I can foresee is dealers still making money by supplying inferior, yet vastly cheaper product.


I think the government would be more afraid of the initial problems that would come with a re-think of the drug prohibition issue - i.e. massive overuse and partying in the first few weeks/months.

I feel for the government to "grow up" when it comes to drug policy, will first take the population as a whole to "grow up" to it's attitude to drugs. And I would include alcohol in that list as it's the most available drug and it's the drug that large amounts of people (The majority of the country perhaps?) over indluge on.

Elevator

I agree with last poster but it's not just this country, the UN convention on narcotic drugs held last week showed real promise of change of attitude in the run up to it, they were talkin of playin a never ending drugs war and that something had to change. they wrapped up after the 5 days with a commitment to the war on drugs for another 10 years and making such wild claims as ridding the world of all illegal drugs.

shame on the UN, shame on the US, shame on the Irish government,

they missed a very real chance to make a difference straight away but no, there's too much in invested in this "war"

g5fd6ow0hseima

Elevator wrote: »

I agree with last poster but it's not just this country, the UN convention on narcotic drugs held last week showed real promise of change of attitude in the run up to it, they were talkin of playin a never ending drugs war and that something had to change. they wrapped up after the 5 days with a commitment to the war on drugs for another 10 years and making such wild claims as ridding the world of all illegal drugs.

shame on the UN, shame on the US, shame on the Irish government,

they missed a very real chance to make a difference straight away but no, there's too much in invested in this "war"

Well there is hope. Look at the recent actions of both the Czech Republic and Portugal, who decided to decriminalise posession of all drugs including herion in personal amounts. Although not quite revolutionary, it represents a significant step in the right direction.

Its depressing news to swallow that the EU, in the year 2010, have decided to continue in their hopeless efforts to fight the war on drugs. When will humanity accept that drugs, like many other 'undesirable' things such as prostitution will always be prominent in this world? I guess, in the case of the UN, it would cause to much embarrasment for them to all of a sudden drop their war on drugs, given that they've put so much effort into it, as you've said. Perserverance isnt always a positive thing .

The one arguement in this country that is quite prominent amongst the prohibitionist side is that if he cant handle alcohol, how could we possibly handle any other drug; While this takes a while to explain, the fact that consuming alcohol en masse is a social institution here in Ireland makes us different from any other country.

Funniest of all is the attitude of your typical Irish person regards 'drugs'. This average person I speak of, who likes to drink 1 to many and post up on facebook how they 'got fukn lokd' last night, would shreak in horror if they seen someone smoking weed and, in a serious manner, label them a druggy.... It just shows you the level of understanding of drugs here in this country. The government could start by introducing awareness campaigns in schools, but that would be investing money I guess.... screw that. BAN IT ALL, YEAH!

ToniTuddle

penguin88 wrote: »

What's the deal with it? Buy one get one free, I think.

Har har har

Evangeline Chubby Aircraft wrote: »

I safely say that meph is far more dangerous than MDMA.

Well my mate bought a load of the internet. I thought it was bloody methadone and was thinking aint that the stuff heroin folks take(:eek:) but she said it was legal stuff.

Was looking up the side effects and stuff which looked pretty intense including joints turning blue :eek: but think that's the case if you taking loads. Most folks describing it on other forums end up taking ****loads of it which is stupid why not just take it once, guess they have no fear of the side effects.

Alot of folks have been saying the legal stuff is alot more dangerous than the illegal stuff?? Why is that?

ToniTuddle

I'm really not arsed getting into a full-blown debate over drugs again, even though it was fun.

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Bit lazy to go through all the pages! Whats the deal with Methadrone?

Mephedrone. Its name is mephedrone. It is not methadrone, it is mephedrone. There isn't even an 'a' anywhere in its parent name: methylephedrone.

And just in case people are still living in Delusion World: it is not plant food, it is not a bath salt, it is nothing but a psychoactive.

There is a related cathinone called methedrone but they are not the same.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

g5fd6ow0hseima

Yesterday I was told by a gob****e that mephedrome has been used as a tomato plant feed for years.... It just shows what some cunts know....

ToniTuddle

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm really not arsed getting into a full-blown debate over drugs again, even though it was fun.



Mephedrone. Its name is mephedrone. It is not methadrone, it is mephedrone. There isn't even an 'a' anywhere in its parent name: methylephedrone.

And just in case people are still living in Delusion World: it is not plant food, it is not a bath salt, it is nothing but a psychoactive.

There is a related cathinone called methedrone but they are not the same.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Sorry my spelling and knowledge of the substance was not up to scratch.
That's the reason I asked about it.

Kurtosis

Deleted User wrote: »

it is not plant food, it is not a bath salt, it is nothing but a psychoactive.

Why is it sold as a plant feeder/bath salt then?

penguin88

penguin88 wrote: »

Why is it sold as a plant feeder/bath salt then?

To avoid medicines legislation. You can't sell a drug for human consumption without a licence.

ToniTuddle wrote:

Sorry my spelling and knowledge of the substance was not up to scratch.
That's the reason I asked about it.

Nah, I have to apologise. I'm just a bit testy today, that's all. I'm actually glad to see someone wanting to learn about it.

Sorry about that.

ToniTuddle

Deleted User wrote: »

To avoid medicines legislation. You can't sell a drug for human consumption without a licence.

So basically all this "legal" stuff aint really legal at all and just managed to get around legislation but labelling stuff differently?

Nah, I have to apologise. I'm just a bit testy today, that's all. I'm actually glad to see someone wanting to learn about it.

Sorry about that.

\o/

YaY!

We can hug it out now

Kurtosis

Deleted User wrote: »

To avoid medicines legislation. You can't sell a drug for human consumption without a licence.

Not true, you're wrong about not being able to sell unlicensed drugs. But anyway, mephedrone isn't classified as a drug here (at least, it won't be until this June) so it is not trying to circumvent medicines legislation either.

So I'll go again: Why is it sold as a plant feeder/bath salt then?