Legal Highs

molloyjazz

Most Haunted wrote: »

and what happen when you reach you max input of these so called soft drugs

this is what im trying to find out. what happens for me is i move onto a new brand... a stronger 1, but is it really because surly we cant have such a huge tolerance to this already..

Pace2008

Try googling 'JWH-018 tolerance' as a starting point. There is anecdotal evidence of a tolerance build-up in regular users. That said, I have no idea what the active chemicals are in the current smoking blends.

Most Haunted wrote: »

and what happen when you reach you max input of these so called soft drugs

What the hell is this 'max input?' You can always get stoned, you just need to smoke more , or better yet, take a tolerance break.

yogy

Most Haunted wrote: »

Thats how soft drugs lead onto harder ones .

I totally agree. I smoked my first joint of XXX on Friday, and now, as I type via my blueberry, I'm standing outside the Spar on Talbot St. waiting to get me bit of smack to inject into my scrotum cos it's the only place I can find a vein:(

molloyjazz

yogy wrote: »

I totally agree. I smoked my first joint of XXX on Friday, and now, as I type via my blueberry, I'm standing outside the Spar on Talbot St. waiting to get me bit of smack to inject into my scrotum cos it's the only place I can find a vein:(

hmmm i wonder if JWHs bioavailabilty is increased when IV'd.

molloyjazz

Pace2008 wrote: »

Try googling 'JWH-018' tolerance as a starting point. There is anecdotal evidence of a tolerance build-up in regular users. That said, I have no idea what the active chemicals are in the current smoking blends.

What the hell is this 'max input?' You can always get stoned, you just need to smoke more , or better yet, take a tolerance break.

thats the thing we don't know which ones are in what and in what quantities.. thats why i what to get other irish smokers opinions on tolerance.

Kurtosis

molloyjazz wrote: »

hmmm i wonder if JWHs bioavailabilty is increased when IV'd.

Erm, yes. Just like every other substance given IV.

WIZE

Pace2008 wrote: »

Try googling 'JWH-018 tolerance' as a starting point. There is anecdotal evidence of a tolerance build-up in regular users. That said, I have no idea what the active chemicals are in the current smoking blends.

What the hell is this 'max input?' You can always get stoned, you just need to smoke more , or better yet, take a tolerance break.

Pace I will give you an example

Just say you start smoking 3 joints a day for a week . at the end of the week you notice that your not getting the same effect as the start of the week . So the next week you start smoking 5 joints a day until the end of the week . If I could sell you weed that you would only need to smoke 2 joints to get the same effects as your 5 joints would you buy it

( This is not an offer btw )

molloyjazz

Most Haunted wrote: »

Pace I will give you an example

Just say you start smoking 3 joints a day for a week . at the end of the week you notice that your not getting the same effect as the start of the week . So the next week you start smoking 5 joints a day until the end of the week . If I could sell you weed that you would only need to smoke 2 joints to get the same effects as your 5 joints would you buy it

( This is not an offer btw )

he understands the mechanic of tolerance ok... its the "max imput" ... do u mean LD50 or lethal dose?

Pace2008

Most Haunted wrote: »

Pace I will give you an example

Just say you start smoking 3 joints a day for a week . at the end of the week you notice that your not getting the same effect as the start of the week . So the next week you start smoking 5 joints a day until the end of the week . If I could sell you weed that you would only need to smoke 2 joints to get the same effects as your 5 joints would you buy it

Even in your extremely oversimplified example I'd still be smoking soft drugs, albeit stronger ones.

Ban Ki Moon

Some arguments never die

WIZE

To be honest I don't care weather you take legal or non legal drugs

But if your happy to watch your teenager on there 18th Birthday

instread of having maybe having there first drink , snorting white powder , Taking a few tablets and smoking a few joints because it is legal its just wrong .

ToniTuddle

I doubt any parent would be happy to see their kid taking drugs whether they are "legal" or not.

I started up this conversation about Mephedrone again as I wanted to find out about it. I've since discovered many websites that sell the stuff.
It's actually funny reading it as it's very obvious what they are hiding with statements like:

What packaging do you use and how is it sent?
A3: The packaging we use is entirely discrete and does not reveal the contents whatsoever. There's no chance anyone will know the contents from looking at the packaging, so don't be worried if you don't want people to know you are a keen gardener.

The last sentence being the plainly obvious one.

ScumLord

Most Haunted wrote: »

To be honest I don't care weather you take legal or non legal drugs

But if your happy to watch your teenager on there 18th Birthday

instread of having maybe having there first drink , snorting white powder , Taking a few tablets and smoking a few joints because it is legal its just wrong .

Well going on my own experience of what happens with drink and what happens with the other illegal drugs like LSD, cannabis and MDMA I'd rather they use them much safer drugs than get legless on drink and hang around other violent drunks.

ToniTuddle

ScumLord wrote: »

Well going on my own experience of what happens with drink and what happens with the other illegal drugs like LSD, cannabis and MDMA I'd rather they use them much safer drugs than get legless on drink and hang around other violent drunks.

But why does everyone think they are safer??

They alter your mind and body just as much as the illegal stuff!

ScumLord

ToniTuddle wrote: »

But why does everyone think they are safer??

They alter your mind and body just as much as the illegal stuff!

Oh sorry, I am talking about the illegal stuff. I don't have any time for the stuff in the headshop, they're piss poor imitations.

WIZE

ScumLord wrote: »

Well going on my own experience of what happens with drink and what happens with the other illegal drugs like LSD, cannabis and MDMA I'd rather they use them much safer drugs than get legless on drink and hang around other violent drunks.

:eek: . That can not be true

strobe

Most Haunted wrote: »

:eek: . That can not be true

I don't know why you find it so shocking. If you were happy for you 18 year old son to go get hammered drunk on his birthday why would you have such a problem with them smoking cannabis instead? Is it purely because cannabis is illegal? Would you have the same opinion in relation to them getting drunk versus getting stoned if cannabis was legal?

Prof.Badass

Most Haunted wrote: »

To be honest I don't care weather you take legal or non legal drugs

But if your happy to watch your teenager on there 18th Birthday

instread of having maybe having there first drink , snorting white powder , Taking a few tablets and smoking a few joints because it is legal its just wrong .

I don't see how alcohol is any different tbh.

If i had children I would not be ok with them doing legal highs upon reaching 18 (i'd still let them-as they are now adults- but i'd try and persuade them not to), simply because they're untested chemicals.

If they were to take a pill containing a tested chemical that is known to be relatively non-toxic and no more addictive than alcohol then yeah, i'd rather they do that than drink. But tbh, that's irrelevant.

I probably wouldn't want my children working in mcDonald's for a living or marrying someone 20 years older than them. Doesn't mean doing such things should be made illegal though. At the end of the day it's THEIR life, not mine.

ScumLord

Most Haunted wrote: »

:eek: . That can not be true

No, in ten years of drug experience I've had great times on the illegal stuff, great parties no hassle and at the same time experienced people doing horrible stuff on drink on a weekly basis. That's ten years of LSD, Shrooms, cannabis, coke, MDMA and not one of them comes close to the dangers I've seen alcohol cause. Nothing comes close to the horrible alcohol hangover, see the thing is I'm talking from experience your only going on hearsay and rumour.

WIZE

The problem is the most people who will be taking theses drugs will also consume Alcohol that is my issue with it .

Im in no way condoning Alcohol abuse

I don't mind people smoking Grass or hash but when it comes down to MDMA , Speed , Coke , substatutes then I have a problem with it

ScumLord

Most Haunted wrote: »

The problem is the most people who will be taking theses drugs will also consume Alcohol that is my issue with it .

Im in no way condoning Alcohol abuse

I don't mind people smoking Grass or hash but when it comes down to MDMA , Speed , Coke , substatutes then I have a problem with it

Alcohol doesn't really mix well with the illegals. Mix it with weed and your going to sleepy/pukey town fairly rapid. You won't want to drink alcohol at all when your on MDMA or LSD, you just won't feel like it. The biggest danger is cocaine.

WIZE

ScumLord wrote: »

Alcohol doesn't really mix well with the illegals. Mix it with weed and your going to sleepy/pukey town fairly rapid. You won't want to drink alcohol at all when your on MDMA or LSD, you just won't feel like it. The biggest danger is cocaine.

been there and done that when i was young .

If you smoke weed first the go drinking you will be alright
If you go drinking first then smoke you will be in for a puke fest .

The way I see it is that the Government dont have much control over Alcohol abuse so to add Legal Drugs into the equation will be worse

As I said I dont have an issue with weed or hash

ScumLord

Most Haunted wrote: »

The way I see it is that the Government dont have much control over Alcohol abuse so to add Legal Drugs into the equation will be worse

I don't know about that, if MDMA where legal you could see it take people that would be out drinking and putting them in a club drinking water. You would have alternatives to the traditional night out on the piss. Alcohol abuse won't go away until people have an alternative.
I'm not saying we should try to cut down alcohol abuse by getting some of those abusers onto a different drug but at the moment there is no alternative to the drinking culture not above ground and out in the open anyway.

Fago!

TedB wrote: »

I've heard a lot about these so called 'legal highs' in 'headshops' and I have to be honest,
I was very skeptical.

1) There's being no research on any of these brands - Pulse, Spice etc. The party pills are particularly dangerous - they have 20 years + research on MDMA, nothing on most of these brands. I don't even think any of them are safety controlled.

AND they are only legal on a technicality. In that, we haven't gotten round to banning these particular substances just yet.

2)
I like a bit of
weed (Smoke maybe 5 or 6 times a year. Relaxing and a very nice buzz when with a couple of mates enjoying a few tins) So I think to myself - if I can get weed, why the hell would I smoke this crap?

Last night me and a friend tried out the 'Pulse' stuff. Went into a head shop, bought two five euro bags and smoked the balls off it. One five euro bag is the equivilent of a 20 euro bag of weed. Honestly, the stuff blew me away. As strong as weed - if not stronger, considering the quantity we took.

It sets your heartrate mad and it tastes like absolute dung, but it does give you a very very distinct 'high' and a great stoney buss for ages. It seems to be a
cocktail of herbs thrown together.

Anyways, what is the story with these legal highs? I can testify that it is as good if not better than the illegal stuff and its so readily available - yet its not the same as weed at all - we don't really know what the long term effects of this stuff is - we know quite a bit about the effects of weed.

I'm not in favour of drugs legalisation, but I am in favour of decriminalising the stuff. It is, after all, a victimless crime (In that the only victim is me, the adult who occasionaly likes to dabble in the odd novelty) So don't try and make this into a drugs legalisation debate.

Subliminal messages...

:P

c0ldfyr3

Pat Sheen wrote: »

And btw dredging that so called toxicology report from df was a low blow. Why would a genuine toxicological assay for a LEGAL substance have to be published in secret?

I fail to see why it was low? If anything he should be commended, showing Joe Public where the real, fact based information is. Do you think when they were trying to synthesis this LEGAL substance they thought it would stay legal?

If everyone had to read the entire forum archive on DF before opening their mouths with the little knowledge they have on the subject I think we'd all be in for a delightfully educated conversation but alas most people are content to get their 'facts' from the tabloids.

Ash.J.Williams

Weed/hash smokers view:


Tried Bonsai last night out of curiosity....It felt completley artificial, not sure if i'll even finish the bag.... woke up earlier than ever though, so obviously no THC there or i'd be as lazy as ususal!!!

Verdict: it's just not right.....

fondfarewell

After yet another major night on these drugs, I'm going to bid these legals adiue and finish up with this stuff. It's been a mostly fun 4 months whereby every weekend would start off with a trip to Nirvana or The Buzz Stop to stock up on my Pure Gold, Wild Cat or whatever other **** the person would throw you out. I'm not going to pretend I had a **** time on these drugs, or that it has ****ed me up. To the contrary, I loved the stuff, and have had some excellent 24-48 hour parties over the past few months.

However, Friday night me and my mates had a blast in town, went back to house party and had brill fun until 9am, but, this just wasn't enough for us. We just couldn't let it go, we had to keep the party going and couldn't accept that it was over. So into a taxi we got and headed over to Nirvana to pick up another 3g of the **** (pure gold this weekend). On the way back to the apartment in the taxi something just flipped in my head. I just kind of had an outer body experience where I was sitting above the taxi, looking in at myself thinking - when did you become so driven and motivated by a substance? This is bull ****, it's not even about spending time with your mates anymore.

It was never like that for me, ever. I was 22 when I did my first illegal drug, and for the following 3 years I took illegals maybe on about 7 occasions. It was fun, but never something that became a regular feature of my social life. Then came these legals, which have really just slipped in to being a norm in my weekend, not intended, not deliberate and not consciously...it just happened.

Anyhow when we got back to the apartment, I took a line but whatever had come into my head in the taxi killed whatever chance of a buzz there was left. I just put on my jacket, handed my 1g bag to the lads, hugged them all and headed home to my bed. So now it's Sunday and I've dealt with the comedown etc and I've decided that I'm done with the stuff. I'm not having a big attack of consciousness here or anything and I'm not riddled with guilt...I'm just done. I just want to go back to going out for a few beers, dancing to some good tunes, having a chat with my mates and getting a taxi home at 3am with a Ricks burger in hand (and remembering it the next day).

So to my little legal friends I say goodbye, it was fun, and we certainly had a blast - but all good things must come to an end - and I'd rather we do it on my terms than on yours.

[ PS I'm not trying to condemn legals or anyone who takes them here. It's simply my relationship with them I'm discussing. If you think it's horse ****, go for it and let me know! ]

wylo

fondfarewell wrote: »

After yet another major night on these drugs, I'm going to bid these legals adiue and finish up with this stuff. It's been a mostly fun 4 months whereby every weekend would start off with a trip to Nirvana or The Buzz Stop to stock up on my Pure Gold, Wild Cat or whatever other **** the person would throw you out. I'm not going to pretend I had a **** time on these drugs, or that it has ****ed me up. To the contrary, I loved the stuff, and have had some excellent 24-48 hour parties over the past few months.

However, Friday night me and my mates had a blast in town, went back to house party and had brill fun until 9am, but, this just wasn't enough for us. We just couldn't let it go, we had to keep the party going and couldn't accept that it was over. So into a taxi we got and headed over to Nirvana to pick up another 3g of the **** (pure gold this weekend). On the way back to the apartment in the taxi something just flipped in my head. I just kind of had an outer body experience where I was sitting above the taxi, looking in at myself thinking - when did you become so driven and motivated by a substance? This is bull ****, it's not even about spending time with your mates anymore.

It was never like that for me, ever. I was 22 when I did my first illegal drug, and for the following 3 years I took illegals maybe on about 7 occasions. It was fun, but never something that became a regular feature of my social life. Then came these legals, which have really just slipped in to being a norm in my weekend, not intended, not deliberate and not consciously...it just happened.

Anyhow when we got back to the apartment, I took a line but whatever had come into my head in the taxi killed whatever chance of a buzz there was left. I just put on my jacket, handed my 1g bag to the lads, hugged them all and headed home to my bed. So now it's Sunday and I've dealt with the comedown etc and I've decided that I'm done with the stuff. I'm not having a big attack of consciousness here or anything and I'm not riddled with guilt...I'm just done. I just want to go back to going out for a few beers, dancing to some good tunes, having a chat with my mates and getting a taxi home at 3am with a Ricks burger in hand (and remembering it the next day).

So to my little legal friends I say goodbye, it was fun, and we certainly had a blast - but all good things must come to an end - and I'd rather we do it on my terms than on yours.

[ PS I'm not trying to condemn legals or anyone who takes them here. It's simply my relationship with them I'm discussing. If you think it's horse ****, go for it and let me know! ]

in summary,

Im reflecting on my nasty comedown that hit me out of nowhere because I think im not still skagged but I really am. "I am never doing these again"

fondfarewell

:D:D

I knew that's what people will think as they read it. But it's not one of those trust me. To be honest comedowns were never an issue for me, bit of tiredness and irritability but no throw-myself-under-a-bus type issues.

I'm just calling it a day!

rubadub

fondfarewell wrote: »

So to my little legal friends I say goodbye, it was fun, and we certainly had a blast - but all good things must come to an end - and I'd rather we do it on my terms than on yours.

Right now, all around the country, 1000's of people are hugging the porcelain with hammers pounding inside their heads, with red raw throats from vomiting up stomach acid & bile, dry retching in agony swearing they will never touch the booze again.










until next week anyways.....

Ash.J.Williams

laura29 wrote: »

has anyone seen the effects this legal crazy sh*t has on ppl !! i was only told a story abt it today and then shown vids on youtube :eek: im shocked to the core that this stuff is legal , has anyone had an experience wit this stuff salvia ??

yes, it's ****

gigglesgal

I'm totally freaking out.
Did a bunch of stuff at the weekend - mainly hash and Ice mixed with drink.
It was an amazing buzz. Best I've ever felt in my life.
BUT I told the person I was with that I was in love with them.
Is that normal????? I thought that only happened on E???

I know I'm probably oversensitive at the minute given the indulgence but still....freaking here!

Can't believe this stuff is legal!!!

ScumLord

gigglesgal wrote: »

I'm totally freaking out.
Did a bunch of stuff at the weekend - mainly hash and Ice mixed with drink.
It was an amazing buzz. Best I've ever felt in my life.
BUT I told the person I was with that I was in love with them.
Is that normal????? I thought that only happened on E???

No that happens with just about every drug.

Sir Gallagher

gigglesgal wrote: »

I'm totally freaking out.
Did a bunch of stuff at the weekend - mainly hash and Ice mixed with drink.
It was an amazing buzz. Best I've ever felt in my life.
BUT I told the person I was with that I was in love with them.
Is that normal????? I thought that only happened on E???

I know I'm probably oversensitive at the minute given the indulgence but still....freaking here!

Can't believe this stuff is legal!!!

That kind of thing usually happens after necking a load of clarkey cats.

Kotek Besar

gigglesgal wrote: »

mainly hash and Ice

..

Can't believe this stuff is legal!!!

You think hash and ice are legal?

:eek:

jimi_t2

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

That kind of thing usually happens after necking a load of clarkey cats.

Not to mention triple-sod or Yellow Bentines in the Jessop-jessop-jessop; all the custard gannets eating C.A.K.E nonwithstanding. Be careful though, don't want to end up like a piano-dentist or on a quack-candle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4f4oy2M_Og

Useful.Idiot

anyone know if salvia is getting banned?

That stuff is insane.

Kotek Besar

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

anyone know if salvia is getting banned?

That stuff is insane.

Interesting article here.

rhythm90

Most Haunted wrote: »

and what happen when you reach you max input of these so called soft drugs

... so when you've had your 10 pints and a few shots and are completely full to the brim with booze to the point you cant drink anymore, you go and buy cocaine and heroin?

molloyjazz

rhythm90 wrote: »

... so when you've had your 10 pints and a few shots and are completely full to the brim with booze to the point you cant drink anymore, you go and buy cocaine and heroin?

yeah pretty much, been doing that for a long time now, way before head shops!

gollem_1975

Kotek Besar wrote: »

You think hash and ice are legal?

:eek:

perhaps she/he was talking about "Drink" ? :pac:

Useful.Idiot

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Interesting article here.

interesting article alright.

The first time I smoked salvia I went to another world, it was extremely intense. quite scary actually.

starbelgrade

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

anyone know if salvia is getting banned?

That stuff is insane.

I thought the Blashempy Law was bad, but banning saliva is just an insane concept.

ScumLord

starbelgrade wrote: »

I thought the Blashempy Law was bad, but banning saliva is just an insane concept.

They don't need to ban it most people never want to go near it again. The only time I'll take it is when I get drunk which makes for a horrible, horrible buzz.

sbsquarepants

Useful.Idiot wrote: »

interesting article alright.

The first time I smoked salvia I went to another world, it was extremely intense. quite scary actually.

Took me 3 attempts to get anything, thought i'd been stung with the usual, pre mephedrone, rubbish. Third time was absolutely breathtaking, i lived more or less an entire other life, as an inanimate object i might add, in the space of about 10 minutes. And yes i do know that's an oxymoron, but it's the only way i can explain it. I don't honestly see anybody doing it on any kind of habitual basis, it's just too strange, im still awe struck by the experience 5 or 6 years later but yet i haven't felt any desire to do it again!

ScumLord

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Took me 3 attempts to get anything, thought i'd been stung with the usual, pre mephedrone, rubbish. Third time was absolutely breathtaking, i lived more or less an entire other life, as an inanimate object i might add, in the space of about 10 minutes. And yes i do know that's an oxymoron, but it's the only way i can explain it. I don't honestly see anybody doing it on any kind of habitual basis, it's just too strange, im still awe struck by the experience 5 or 6 years later but yet i haven't felt any desire to do it again!

The first time I did it I got nothing much, a tiny body buzz and thought it was pure shyte. That's how I got so messed up the second time, I loaded the bong called everyone in the room pathetic lightweights and then spent the next five minutes dribbling all over myself on the floor. I was on a massive buzz just from being put in that state. The 3rd time was awful.

Pace2008

starbelgrade wrote: »

I thought the Blashempy Law was bad, but banning saliva is just an insane concept.

It's a substance with no addiction potential, and, it would appear, no negative long-term physical or psychological effects. The problem people have with it, as with most drugs, is that it gets you high, which is viewed by many as an intrinsically bad thing.

ScumLord wrote: »

They don't need to ban it most people never want to go near it again. The only time I'll take it is when I get drunk which makes for a horrible, horrible buzz.

Yeah, everything about it just rails against what I'd consider "fun" or "enjoyable." The only positive word I could use to describe the experience would be "interesting." Just another box ticked.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Took me 3 attempts to get anything, thought i'd been stung with the usual, pre mephedrone, rubbish. Third time was absolutely breathtaking, i lived more or less an entire other life, as an inanimate object i might add, in the space of about 10 minutes. And yes i do know that's an oxymoron, but it's the only way i can explain it.

Yeah, words kind of fail when you try to describe salvia as the laws of normal reality go AWOL when you take a big hit. You can give a rudimentary description of the effects of most drugs since many of them are extensions of normal feelings, to varying degrees - happiness, euphoria, contentment, fear etc. There is an anthropic element, however distant, to all of them.

With salvia, you can give the most basic visual description of what happened, but you're failed by the limitations of language as there is nothing remotely human about the experience.

GiftofGab

When is this ban coming in?

My name is URL

Just back from Dundalk. Looks like another headshop was targeted. There's a road cordoned off and Gardai are all over the place. I didn't hear anything on the news about it but I assume that's what happened

Pace2008

GiftofGab wrote: »

When is this ban coming in?

AFAIK salvia isn't being banned.