Legal Highs

Prof.Badass

sordino wrote: »

What kind of power do you think they have? Amuse me.

They're hardly going to list an untested drug like JWH-018 that has already been banned in several other countries, unless it's to their benefit. If they list it they'll be shut down.

Shut down by who?

You can only get shut down if what you're selling is illegal, and jwh-018 is not. If they continue the way they are going it will definitely get banned. At this stage keeping the ingredients secret is doing them no good. The government already know about it.

Bzp was sold in pills with listed ingredients and dosages. It too was an untested chemical. Not only that but it's side effects gave an indication that it was relatively toxic. No such side-effects exist for jwh-018. I don't see any reason why jwh-018 can not be sold in a simmilar fashion to how bzp was.

There was a whole harm reduction argument with bzp, and believe it or not, it probably helped keep it legal here for a while. That argument can not apply to synthetic cannabinoids if the headshops/ producers continue with their unethical and irresponsible behaviour.

All it takes is one person to change the whole setup. In fact whoever does it would probably become quite rich as many users would switch over to the one with ingredients.

John Player

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

First time I gave Spice Gold a bash I murdered half a gram in a bong and spent the next twenty minuets shouting out items in the argos catalogue before pacing up and down deciding should I call an ambulance.

thats so funny, i actually burst out laughing like a madman when i read it first.

Sir Gallagher

Shoop wrote: »

I'm 18 and no problems with the stuff or the people in there. I'd say it's better than going out and getting pissed on vodka etc and slightly more classy than knacker drinking cans of dutch Gold in a field.

At least if I buy the legal cocaine I know it's not talcum powder and rat poison I'm snorting, same with the weed there, I know it's not fertilizer and stuff like that. Let's face it, most people my age will try out drugs of some kind. It's the lesser of two evils

What utter bollox, drug dealers dont sell talcum powder and rat poison disguised a coke that just makes no sense at all.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

John Player wrote: »

thats so funny, i actually burst out laughing like a madman when i read it first.

Me too, that was comical genius...

Futurism

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

What utter bollox, drug dealers dont sell talcum powder and rat poison disguised a coke that just makes no sense at all.

Yeah, drug dealers are lovely people. They would never dream of mixing their drugs with other, more available and similar looking items that would no doubt increase their profit.

TomCo

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

What utter bollox, drug dealers dont sell talcum powder and rat poison disguised a coke that just makes no sense at all.

I wouldn't be surprised half the time. They sell soap bar to joe public dressed up with every name under the sun, ****ing joke.

DarkJager

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

What utter bollox, drug dealers dont sell talcum powder and rat poison disguised a coke that just makes no sense at all.

Weed: Sprayed with fibre glass, even sand to add more weight per bag for less weed.
Coke: Cut down with fitness powders, talcum powders, dental anestethics.
Speed: Too long to list considering the **** is made from any number of household chemicals.

RugbyFanatic

Futurism wrote: »

Yeah, drug dealers are lovely people. They would never dream of mixing their drugs with other, more available and similar looking items that would no doubt increase their profit.

Yeah mate and they totally want to kill off their customer base and reduce their profits. Thats why they use Rat poison instead of much more easily avaliable, cheaper items such as creatine. Those business savy drug dealers.

Sir Gallagher

DarkJager wrote: »

Weed: Sprayed with fibre glass, even sand to add more weight per bag for less weed.
Coke: Cut down with fitness powders, talcum powders, dental anestethics.
Speed: Too long to list considering the **** is made from any number of household chemicals.

I'm fully aware of what coke is cut with but to say rat poison is put in it is just thick, like people who turn around and say that there's often traces of heroin found in pills. Why would a drug dealer put rat poison in coke or herion in pills, it makes zero sense.

carlmango11

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I'm fully aware of what coke is cut with but to say rat poison is put in it is just thick, like people who turn around and say that there's often traces of heroin found in pills. Why would a drug dealer put rat poison in coke or herion in pills, it makes zero sense.

The whole "theres rat poison and heroin in pills and coke" things is bollox but it's a known fact that they do adulterate their drugs. Dental anaestethics, milk powder, methamphetamines, bath salts etc.

fizzynicenice

Shoop wrote: »

and slightly more classy than knacker drinking cans of dutch Gold in a field.

Why you gotta break balls?

lizzyvera

DarkJager wrote: »

Weed: Sprayed with fibre glass, even sand to add more weight per bag for less weed.

Fibre glass or sand wouldn't burn and would just end up lodged on the filter. You'd notice that. Dealers need customers to come back. They also already make massive profits at normal street prices, even without cutting it with anything. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not the norm.

I'm sure a coke user knows the hit they should get from a certain amount. I'd certainly figure it out if my beer was only 1% alcohol!

lizzyvera

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

like people who turn around and say that there's often traces of heroin found in pills.

You can detect minute traces of compounds in an average lab, so if they were touched by someone who also touched heroin, there would be "traces" of it, but not enough to be active. I suspect that's where that rumour came from.

Odysseus

carlmango11 wrote: »

The whole "theres rat poison and heroin in pills and coke" things is bollox but it's a known fact that they do adulterate their drugs. Dental anaestethics, milk powder, methamphetamines, bath salts etc.

There have been two series of contaminated heroin in the past two years, it it believed that it is still out there, but just not been put on the streets. It is feared that it will be brought out again.

On the fiberglass in grass about a year ago our lab found a batch of this was on the streets, it appears to have been a one off, but it was confirmed in a HSE lab.

So these thing do happen occassionally, but its not good bussiness. We get alerts in work every so often about contaminated drugs, and when we do they are confirmed cases.

sneakerfreak

Also a lot of people take rat poison,its a blood thinner-Warfarin for example.

Pace2008

lizzyvera wrote: »

Fibre glass or sand wouldn't burn and would just end up lodged on the filter. You'd notice that. Dealers need customers to come back. They also already make massive profits at normal street prices, even without cutting it with anything. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not the norm.

I'm sure a coke user knows the hit they should get from a certain amount. I'd certainly figure it out if my beer was only 1% alcohol!

Unless you have good connections you can't get clean coke in Ireland. It's almost always cut.

psilocybe

lizzyvera wrote: »

Fibre glass or sand wouldn't burn and would just end up lodged on the filter. You'd notice that. Dealers need customers to come back. They also already make massive profits at normal street prices, even without cutting it with anything. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not the norm.

I'm sure a coke user knows the hit they should get from a certain amount. I'd certainly figure it out if my beer was only 1% alcohol!

Now I'd usually dive on the chance to debunk a bull**** drug story which is what every other myth on this thread is but this did happen and on a massive scale.

Everything you need to know about this phenomenon is here.

There were even Governement Health Advisories issued in the UK. The only such warning I heard over here was on Phantom FM...

Alot of the coke here is a lidocaine/ephedrine mix which will stimulate you, and numb you up, but will not produce a cocaine high.

ScumLord

Pace2008 wrote: »

Unless you have good connections you can't get clean coke in Ireland. It's almost always cut.

Aint that the truth, arse coke is some of the finest stuff you'll ever try. The crap sold on the street here just isn't coke.

sneakerfreak

Banning it is not the answer for legal highs,nor is it for most drugs.

Educating people on its il-effects and writing legislation for head shops would be the number one priority as far as im concerned,at the moment there are no standards etc for head shops.They operate simply as retail,just like your local newsagents etc,there are no specific guidelines for them.

In the shops for example it is entirely up to the owner who they sell to,they are not actually breaking the law if they sell to a minor,but nearly all make their own sensible rules and abide by them-ie not selling to minors.

But some shop owners aren't as safety minded as that and will sell crap and sell it to children if the opportunity presents itself.

Everything in my local store is over 18s but Salvia is over 21s because its so strong and you get young people coming in the door wanting to buy it who have no idea how strong it is,so the over 21s rule stops a lot of that,in another head shop I saw staff sell Salvia to a customer telling him it was similar to cannabis!That's how bad some shops are!

If someone is totally drunk etc i don't think anyone should sell them anything as they are not in their right frame of mind to be making decisions about ingesting psychoactive substances (apart from maybe coffee lol)

Most products all list the ingredients and give warnings same as any other type of shop,its the law.if u go to the chemist and buy 24 nurofen plus,munch the lot and down a bottle of vodka,who's fault is it that you need your stomach pumped?Yours because the packaging clearly states recommended dosage and warns of the ill effects of abuse.Unfortunately for several reasons a lot of new products dont list ingredients.

People who want to ban everything really need to see that all you do by banning stuff is drive it further underground and into the hands of people who will cut the product with all sorts of crap to increase profits and will sell it to anyone and who are usually also involved in other more serious crime.Banning is prohibition,look at the alcohol prohibition in the states in the 20th century,alcohol smuggling made Al Capone one of the most powerful men in America and just like that there are plenty of nasty folk getting very rich from supply and distribution of illegal drugs at the present time.If it wasn't illegal you would be taking money and therefore power away from these kinds of people.

Also look at the old statement that "cannabis is a gateway drug"-

YES IT IS,it really ****ing is and you know why?Because with cannabis being illegal you have to go and buy it from a dealer (unless you grow it),this dealer is more than likely going to sell more than just one type of drug so from time to time you will be offered other substances,most likely stronger and more unpredictable.So the cannabis smoker is made a criminal by the system,he is made to associate with serious lawbreakers,he risks jail and the loss of his job/home etc just to use something which up until the middle of last century was totally legal.Cannabis is not a 'safe' drug either but education and common sense will help people to make informed decisions on what substances they put in their bodies.

Imagine your local head shop acting as recreational chemist,having to follow health and safety procedures,having to have a hygiene test passed preparation area and the manager at least having to have passed a safety course such as first aid and a basic exam to show knowledge of the substances being sold (how they interact with other substances etc).Strict age guidelines and a guarantee of product ingredients and quality would be norm de riguer.Id imagine that to be a pretty healthy setup and personally would prefer it to the usual tracksuit wearing,mitsubishi colt driving,screwdriver wielding wanna-be hardmen that make up a large proportion of the drug dealing section of society.

Drug use is not going to stop anytime soon,mankind has always felt the need to further its experiences with mind altering substances,this is not a modern occurence,it is in fact a totally natural urge.
To get high while remaining within the constraints of the law is a bonus for those of us who cannot risk the legal repercussions of illicit drug use and Mephedrone offers that comfort at this present time.

Put it like this,I would hope that in 10 years time when someone offers my son drugs he is going to know which drug is which and what its effects are and can say yes or no based on his knowledge of the substances.What I don't want is him drawing a total blank and possibly doing damage to himself by taking unknown narcotics.

So as far as im concerned-Education and Regulation will arm the youth with the knowledge they need to cope with drugs and also make sure that the suppliers of said drugs have strict guidelines to work by and give the best care possible to their customers.

I also wonder how much of a recession we'd be in now if we were taxing drugs ?

Just because some people develop problems/habits doesn't necessitate an all out ban,I am an alcoholic yet you never hear me call for alcohol to be banned because its up to me to deal with any issues I have instead of taking the easy route and blaming the substance itself for my own weakness and calling for it to be banned.Deal with your own **** and don't take away other peoples choices by blindly and selfishly clamoring for substances to be banned.

DepecheHead101

John Player wrote: »

thats so funny, i actually burst out laughing like a madman when i read it first.

It were far from funny at the time. Like Sordino already alluded to, I underestimated the strength of these things and started reacting quiet violent towards it. I can handle them pretty well now, but at the time it was distressing. Well, looking through the argos catalog was a ****ing riot but it went all downhill from there.

But no, these have no effect whatsoever and I am obviously an agent of the legal highs industry :rolleyes:.

For the record, Ireland indeed did have a governing head shop body. The chairman is the same guy who makes Smoke for Irish Head Stores so I would not trust them with my hand luggage.

Smoke itself though is more of a franchise. Same with Smoke XXX. These blends are based on set recipes as such sold in bulk with individual companies and countries then slapping there own brand names on them. Smoke XXX is just really, really concentrated ZoHai MX. A weaker version is sold under the name 'Blaze' now.

As far as the long term health effects go, it's the threat of gritweed and soapbar hash versus chemicals that, while untested, work on the EXACT SAME receptors as THC. And for what it's worth, with Cannabis you are inhaling a significant amount of toxins and gunk from the plant itself, whereas the base herb for these blends is a single one that has absolutely no effect whatsoever, merely serves as a canvas to paint Cannabinoids on.

Unless you can get good stuff, which is far better than any rubbish blend, then the blends are almost certainly the lesser of two evils. Even John Huffman [JwH] commented that JWH-018 is likely to have no toxic effects on humans and was just good for ''getting you high''.

Pat Sheen

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

And for what it's worth, with Cannabis you are inhaling a significant amount of toxins and gunk from the plant itself, whereas the base herb for these blends is a single one that has absolutely no effect whatsoever, merely serves as a canvas to paint Cannabinoids on.

What are you talking about? Burning plant material produces toxic smoke, so by smoking synthetic cannabis blends users are inhaling the toxic by-products of burnt plant material, unidentified and untested cannabinoids and all the by-products of combustion of those and possibly impurities from the synthetic process as well.

Even John Huffman [JwH] commented that JWH-018 is likely to have no toxic effects on humans and was just good for ''getting you high''.

If he actually even said that, which I doubt, John W. Huffman is an organic chemist not a toxicologist.

Prof.Badass

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

Unless you can get good stuff, which is far better than any rubbish blend, then the blends are almost certainly the lesser of two evils. Even John Huffman [JwH] commented that JWH-018 is likely to have no toxic effects on humans and was just good for ''getting you high''.

Likely is the magic word, we just don't know.

The difference between amphetamine (speed) and methamphetamine (crystal meth) is tiny. They are basically the same chemical except methamphetamine has an extra carbon stuck on at the end. amphetamine is only slightly toxic whereas methamphetamine is one of the worst recreational drugs around (it permanently destroys your ability to feel pleasure).
Back in the 40s-60s people were given methamphetamine under the assumption that it was as safe as amphetamine. They found out it wasn't the hard way. Not a mistake people should make again.

Unlike those two drugs Thc and jwh-018 are very different molecules. Without testing jwh-018 itself there's no way you could know it's toxicity.

What j.w huffman said was he'd be more worried about by-products and impurities left over from the synthesis, afterall they come from dodgy chinese labs and are "not made for human consumption". Even if the chemists aren't cutting corners, the end product is still an industrial grade chemical, not a pharmaceutical grade drug.

DepecheHead101

Pat Sheen wrote: »

What are you talking about? Burning plant material produces toxic smoke, so by smoking synthetic cannabis blends users are inhaling the toxic by-products of burnt plant material, unidentified and untested cannabinoids and all the by-products of combustion of those and possibly impurities from the synthetic process as well. If he actually even said that, which I doubt, John W. Huffman is an organic chemist not a toxicologist.

Of course he is not a toxicologist, I was merely alluding to the fact that if anybody had a fair idea of JWH's potential, it would be him.

Here is one article I have found in relation to the subject : http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2009/January/15010901.asp

And my point about Cannabis potentially being far more carcinogenic is that in addition to the plant gunk, which is proven to be not the best in town, there are hundreds of various chemicals and Cannabinoids within a joint you are smoking. These blends narrow it down to just a few, like Spice. And I am assuming the dried random plant gunk is slightly more innocent, though that is not to say perfectly safe, than that of Cannabis. Not all plants are carcinogenic.

For the record, I only know of one base mixture, and that is for the brand ''Smoke'', in which the plant gunk in question is mullein. In fact, I seriously doubt a lot of blends these days are even using full on crumpled up plant mixture.

And ALSO for the record I am not recommending these plants or verifying there safety. Anybody with a rational mind who has viewed my posts can tell they take a pretty staunch negative stance on them. I merely believe best case scenario that isolated Cannabinoids could prove to be safer than traditional Cannabis. Obviously nothing is set in concrete, hence my use of the words ''likely'' et all.

There has, of course, been studies carried out on JWH ...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=520822#post520822

Also, it's worth mentioning that JWH is not even the dominant chemical in the most dominant brand - that being Spice. Spice contains HU and CP series chemicals. Cant remember the exact names, but they can be looked up pretty easily.

This also contributes to why Spice leaves far more clumsy, hangover effects compared to the more isolated blends. I shall copy and paste a concise summary of test reports later.

DepecheHead101

JWH-018 Toxicology

Since my last post about the spice behind Spice, it has been brought to my attention that some initial toxicology testing has been done on the synthetic cannabinoid JWH-018. Before we get down to the details however, here’s some pretty weird background information - the sponsor and provider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous! Unfortunately, this makes the whole thing a lot less credible, but since this is the only information we have right now, let’s hope someone else can verify these things at a later date. So far, one professor (who also wishes to remain anonymous) thinks these are real, but as of yet, no one is willing to put their name down on any kind of formal statement. If you, or anyone you know, has the relevant expertise to look over these studies, please drop me a line!

Feel free to invent your own conspiracy theories, but for now, let’s take a look at the data. You can download the PDF documents in this Zip file [2.04 MB]

CYP450 Inhibition Assay

This first assay looks at the effect of a drug on specific enzymes in your liver. These Cytochrome P450 enzymes are responsible for metabolising the vast majority of drugs you might put in your body, so if you’ve got too much of one drug in your system (ie paracetamol/acetaminophen), then other drugs that are also metabolised by these enzymes (ie alcohol) may compete for these enzymes and so hang around in your system for longer. As you can imagine, it’s important to understand how one drug may affect the metabolism of another, in case of any disasterous drug-drug interactions.

Results: JWH-018 will probably interact with the metabolism of other drugs, so more in vivo work is necessary.

hERG Binding Assay

hERG stands for human Ether-à-go-go Related Gene. This gene codes for a particular type of potassium channel found on heart tissue. This channel pumps potassium ions out of the heart muscle cells and are critical in coordinating the heart’s electrical activity. Unfortunately, these channels are a prime target for drugs to bind to, disrupting their function. This can lead to “Long QT Syndrome”, associated with fainting and can lead to sudden death, so you can see why these kinds of tests are important. Here’s a typical ECG recording showing what’s called the “QT interval” shown in blue, which lasts for longer than it should do if these channels are disrupted.

Results: JWH-018 does not interfere with these channels. That’s a good thing.

Cytotoxicity Assay

This simple test essentially looks at how many cells die when you perfuse them with a drug. The more cells that die, the more toxic the drug.

Results: JWH-018 is not cytotoxic at low concentrations.

GreenScreen HC Genotoxicity Assay

This assay looks at how much a drug will interfere with our DNA. Typically, anything that damages DNA is bad news, being potentially carcinogenic, making the rationale behind this test glaringly obvious. This test was also performed in the presence of a fraction taken from liver cells, which will break down the drug. This not only checks if the drug will damage DNA, but also its breakdown products.

Results: JWH-018 does not damage DNA, so shouldn’t give you cancer.

Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay

Guess what happens in this experiment. A number of renagade lab rats looking for a bad time are rounded up and promised free drugs (kind of like Pleasure Island from Pinocchio; that **** was scary!). The rats are then dosed up and observed. Initially, they appear lethargic (read: totally baked) but a few of them died at higher doses. This appears to be down to problems breathing rather than organ toxicity, but only affected the male rats, who appeared more sensitive to the compound. The drug didn’t appear to accumulate in their systems either, but they did lose some weight, probably because they couldn’t be arsed to eat. JWH-018 showed a huge potency and was found to be tachyphalactic (my new favourite word - it means that more of a drug is required to reach the same state following an initial dosage).

Results: According to FDA guidelines, the human equivalent dose is 0.016 mg/kg but it should be tested in other species before this can be seen as reliable!

Rat Pharmacokinetics

Data is collected on a number of different “pharmacokinetic” aspects of the drug, such as how it is absorbed, distributed throughout the body, metabolised and excreted, which can help with the design of future clinical trials.

Results: JWH-018 is distributed well throughout the rat’s tissues. Metabolism and excretion are normal, with a plasma half-life of approximately 2 hours

Summary

Well, from the looks of these tests, JWH-018 seems to be pretty safe, but unless you want to piss off Ben Goldacre, it would be wise not to rely on this “test tube data” entirely. Also, like I said before, we don’t know where this data has come from, clouding the issue even further.

Prof.Badass

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

This is the important part;

The sponsor and provider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous, therefore I will not be able to provide information that would allow verification of these results. This data is provided in good faith, and I'm hopeful it will be received as such.

No-one is willing to put their name to these results. We don't even have any proof that these test ever occured.
Fake results could easily have been posted online by a smoking blend producer. Considering their business involves disguising research chemicals as "herbal blends", I really wouldn't put it past them.

thatsa spicy

Has anybody here smoked "pulse" before? Smoked it a few times, as good if not better than weed. Makes you laugh at anything at all you or your mates think of!
Only thing is that it makes you lazy as hell, dont think I'm going to smoke it again because of that.

DepecheHead101

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Has anybody here smoked "pulse" before? Smoked it a few times, as good if not better than weed. Makes you laugh at anything at all you or your mates think of!
Only thing is that it makes you lazy as hell, dont think I'm going to smoke it again because of that.

I have heard of it, along with it's cousins [I believe there is a more 'high' than 'stone' version called tribe or something similar] but nowhere in Cork seems to have it yet.

Besides, the amount of chemical stuff like Pulse and Magic Silver would have to have sprayed on it would be pretty disturbing considering how active the blends are at extremely low dosages.

Pat Sheen

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

Of course he is not a toxicologist, I was merely alluding to the fact that if anybody had a fair idea of JWH's potential, it would be him.

Why would he have a fair idea? Do you think Richard Dawkins could perform heart surgery because he knows biology n stuff?

And my point about Cannabis potentially being far more carcinogenic is that in addition to the plant gunk, which is proven to be not the best in town, there are hundreds of various chemicals and Cannabinoids within a joint you are smoking. These blends narrow it down to just a few, like Spice. And I am assuming the dried random plant gunk is slightly more innocent.

You assume wrong. A single pure organic compound like this subjected to the incomplete burning conditions within a cigarette will produce an incredible mixture of by-products, not to mention the complex mixture of chemicals that are already present in the plant material and all the by-products that will produce.

Not all plants are carcinogenic.

Dried and smoked, yes they are. Nicotine is not a registered carcinogen, it is the burning process that produces most of the crap that does the damage and possibly the presence of polonium 210 in the tobacco as well.

And btw dredging that so called toxicology report from df was a low blow. Why would a genuine toxicological assay for a LEGAL substance have to be published in secret?

DepecheHead101

Low blow? Low blow what? Is this suddenly me against you? Jesus almighty, I posted the information because I found it. I did not claim it was 100% true, I am allowing you to make your own assumptions, I am merely PROVIDING WHAT I CAN FIND. In fact, as an added bonus just for you, I added a cute little smiley WINKING. Did a *teeny* bit of that not suggest something? For the record I am totally against these blends, for the simple fact, chemistry aside, that they produce boring highs. I don't know much about these blends, just like you. Also, cop on. Of course he has a fair idea. The chemical is named after him. Notice I did not say he could smoke a bowl and fly a kite, akin to your meaningless comparison with Richard Dawkins doing heart surgery. I said he would have a fair idea. Meaning .. general overview? Person who might know?

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

I merely believe best case scenario that isolated Cannabinoids could prove to be safer than traditional Cannabis. Obviously nothing is set in concrete, hence my use of the words ''likely'' et all.

Now do you get that n stuff?

sneakerfreak

With spraying the process leaves the distribution uneven and is possibly dangerous because of concentrated areas amongst the herbs.

Tribe is from the same makers of Pulse and Fire'n'Ice,Pulse is now outselling smoke xxx,a huge achievement and in fact smoke xxx only overtook Smoke' sales a few months ago-the subsequent release of Smoke Plus did nothing to curtail smoke xxx' growing popularity.Pulse is really taking on all contenders.

Check http://www.smokedealer.com
for reviews and descriptions.

Pat Sheen

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

I am merely PROVIDING WHAT I CAN FIND.

Me too.

DepecheHead101

sneakerfreak wrote: »

With spraying the process leaves the distribution uneven and is possibly dangerous because of concentrated areas amongst the herbs.

Tribe is from the same makers of Pulse and Fire'n'Ice,Pulse is now outselling smoke xxx,a huge achievement and in fact smoke xxx only overtook Smoke' sales a few months ago-the subsequent release of Smoke Plus did nothing to curtail smoke xxx' growing popularity.Pulse is really taking on all contenders.

Check http://www.smokedealer.com
for reviews and descriptions.

Thanks for the information. I might have to break the abstinence to give this Pulse a bash, and whatever her sisters are.

Interesting to find out those sale statistics, there. Any more you could elaborate on? This stuff fascinates me because it is a business getting thousands of people up and down the country stoned off there brains and it's completely legal, and only known mostly to those who are into it.

Smoke Plus I find to be the exact same as Smoke. How they expected it to compete with XXX I have no idea. There is now a similar brand called 'Burn' out which I expect is the exact same thing.

Pat Sheen

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

For the record I am totally against these blends, for the simple fact, chemistry aside, that they produce boring highs.

I might have to break the abstinence to give this Pulse a bash

Someone who clearly knows their own mind.

DepecheHead101

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Someone who clearly knows their own mind.

Yep. Blends so far in my experience produce boring highs. This is a new blend being spoken of highly by many people that I have not yet smoked. Thus, I am going to smoke it to gauge it's effects. It might prove to be boring, it might not. Hence the experimentation element.

Would you like me to draw a pretty little picture?

g5fd6ow0hseima

I smoked some legal 'smoke' once, it elevated my heart rate to such an extent that I havent, and never will, touch the **** again.

Pat Sheen

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

Would you like me to draw a pretty little picture?

You seem to have some concentration issues.

DepecheHead101

Pat Sheen wrote: »

You seem to have some concentration issues.

You obviously have a problem with me, either because I am making you look like a bit of a knob, or something else. Could you please clarify your problem with me wanting to take a new blend for a test course, to compare it to the old, 'boring' blends? After all, after raising this point to me you now seem to be dodging it.

Leading me to believe it is you who has concentration issues.

Pat Sheen

DepecheHead101 wrote: »

You obviously have a problem with me, either because I am making you look like a bit of a knob, or something else. Could you please clarify your problem with me wanting to take a new blend for a test course, to compare it to the old, 'boring' blends? After all, after raising this point to me you now seem to be dodging it. Leading me to believe it is you who has concentration issues.

I'm serious man I think you should get a brain scan or something because now you're exhibiting delusional thinking. First you're against blends then you're for them and what point did I raise that I'm now avoiding?? And why is everything so personal with you? If you post misinformation have the balls to take criticism!

Leprachaun

StopWhispering wrote: »

Up until just before WWII, cocaine and heroin were sold in everyday household products such as medicines and teas. People copped on to their massively addictive effects, they were made illegal/put into moderation.
http://www.pharmacytechs.net/blog/old-school-medicine-ads

MDMA was legal before 1985 and was used by pshychanalysts to treat depression and lethargy. People copped on and it was made illegal.
http://www.dancesafe.org/documents/druginfo/ecstasy.php

Marijuana was made illegal in Ireland in 1912 before people copped on.
http://www.wwmmireland.blogspot.com/

Legal highs will be made illegal also. There is little or no research put into its short or long term side effects. This makes them dangerous.

I'm lost for words. Actually people should 'cop on' and legalise Marijuana again.

DepecheHead101

Pat Sheen wrote: »

I'm serious man I think you should get a brain scan or something because now you're exhibiting delusional thinking. First you're against blends then you're for them and what point did I raise that I'm now avoiding?? And why is everything so personal with you? If you post misinformation have the balls to take criticism!

I am against the blends, like I said, because they produced boring highs. Produced. Past tense. Now there is a new blend. New indicating present. I wish to try this blend. Wish indicating future. Boring blends = past. How much more can I break it down for you? At what point did I say I was 'for' Pulse beyond wanting to try it out to see how it compared, and indeed if it could stop the trend, of the old 'boring' blends? My post heralded interest and a will to experimentation. It did not, however, herald images of me in a Pulse T-Shirt, with a Pulse hat, with a Pulse mug, with a cute little smokey speech bubble coming out of my dry mouth saying ''forget all that I have posted, legal highs are perfectly safe and they rock!, dude!''.

No. I just said I wished to try this new blend. To see was it boring. Like the old blends.

And this was the point you ignored. The point I already explained to you. The point I just had to explain to you again. Now are we done here or would you like to write into the daily mail about me and my keraaazy psychosis? Need I remind you that you were the one who replied to my posts earlier on back with cutting, patronizing remarks when I was merely providing test date that I neither confirmed not denied in relation to authenticity?

Your not high right now, are you?

Pat Sheen

Right so you're against all the blends you've tried already because they're boring but you're up for trying the new ones that come out? Or is it just this new one? Anyway it doesn't really matter, I suppose we can cross that bridge when we come to it, but you're really up for this one..I can tell. Your mostly against them but a tiny bit for them. Got it! I feel I'm really getting to know a person here.

rubadub

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

What utter bollox, drug dealers dont sell talcum powder and rat poison disguised a coke that just makes no sense at all.

Talc is regularly used in commercial pharmaceutical products as a glidant and it is also used in foods.

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Yeah mate and they totally want to kill off their customer base and reduce their profits. Thats why they use Rat poison instead of much more easily avaliable, cheaper items such as creatine. Those business savy drug dealers.

Rat poison is what the papers call it, the drug in question is strychnine a STIMULANT. It makes perfect sense that some dealers would add cheaper readily available stimulants to mixtures they are selling as stimulant. And it makes perfect sense that the media would call it rat poison and neglect to mention that Thomas J Hicks once won the marathon in the Olympics on a mixture of brandy & strychnine.

If alcohol was legal and kids were drinking it then the papers would say it they are drinking industrial solvents used to clean tractor engines. Just like they call ketamin horse tranquiliser, even though it is used for CHILDREN, in much larger doses than a grown mans recreational dose. But sure it doesn't sell papers. :rolleyes:

TomCo wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised half the time. They sell soap bar to joe public dressed up with every name under the sun, ****ing joke.

I have never heard of a dealer in Ireland "making soap", the crap is usually mixed in by the growers. What I would expect to happen is that cannabis dealers will begin to add these synthetics to low grade cannabis to increase its potency, and therefore price.

lizzyvera wrote: »

Fibre glass or sand wouldn't burn and would just end up lodged on the filter. You'd notice that. Dealers need customers to come back. They also already make massive profits at normal street prices, even without cutting it with anything. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not the norm.

People did see "crusty" roaches/filters, which did not flick off normally. More enlightened governments actually gave public warnings about the problem, it was very much the norm. Just have a look on youtube and you will see all about it.

Pat Sheen wrote: »

You assume wrong. A single pure organic compound like this subjected to the incomplete burning conditions within a cigarette will produce an incredible mixture of by-products, not to mention the complex mixture of chemicals that are already present in the plant material and all the by-products that will produce. Dried and smoked, yes they are.

Yes, this is another "fact" the media love, the thousands of unknown compounds & chemicals in cannabis smoke. Well 1000's of unknown chemicals will be found in the smoke of most plants, but it would be ridiculous to ban them for that reason, and it won't sell papers. Cannabis can be eaten or vaporised anyway.

Pat Sheen wrote: »

And btw dredging that so called toxicology report from df was a low blow. Why would a genuine toxicological assay for a LEGAL substance have to be published in secret?

I would agree it does not hold much merit. But many researchers will distance themselves from any recreational drug, legal or not. It is illegal in some countries and will probably be illegal on others, many researchers would not want to have this on their CV in the future. Just like many pro cannabis politicians will simply keep their mouth shut about it, as it can be career suicide.

DepecheHead101

Pat Sheen wrote: »

Right so you're against all the blends you've tried already because they're boring but you're up for trying the new ones that come out? Or is it just this new one? Anyway it doesn't really matter, I suppose we can cross that bridge when we come to it, but you're really up for this one..I can tell. Your mostly against them but a tiny bit for them. Got it! I feel I'm really getting to know a person here.

This blend is a new blend I have not tried before. Thus it stands an unsaid and altogether plausible chance of not being boring. Hence why I am trying it. Obviously I cant tell if a new blend is boring based on unfounded psychic ability I may or may not posses.

In fact, my point is so logical and my argument is so clear that you as good as admitted it yourself, leaving you with nowhere to go but patronizing tedium. Something, psychic ability or not, I can definitely tell will lead to a road of boredom for me.

So that, as they say, is that.

Pat Sheen

rubadub wrote: »

Yes, this is another "fact" the media love, the thousands of unknown compounds & chemicals in cannabis smoke. Well 1000's of unknown chemicals will be found in the smoke of most plants, but it would be ridiculous to ban them for that reason, and it won't sell papers. Cannabis can be eaten or vaporised anyway.

My original point was an objective one. Smoking is unhealthy whether the substance you're smoking contains tens, hundreds or thousands of compounds. Would it be logical to assume smoking a plastic like polythene would be safer because it's just one compound? I don't think so but apparently some do. And that IS that.

DarkJager

sneakerfreak wrote: »

With spraying the process leaves the distribution uneven and is possibly dangerous because of concentrated areas amongst the herbs.

Tribe is from the same makers of Pulse and Fire'n'Ice,Pulse is now outselling smoke xxx,a huge achievement and in fact smoke xxx only overtook Smoke' sales a few months ago-the subsequent release of Smoke Plus did nothing to curtail smoke xxx' growing popularity.Pulse is really taking on all contenders.

Check http://www.smokedealer.com
for reviews and descriptions.

Pulse is the only one that does the job for me now. Smoke XXX only seems to last a few minutes. I was a big fan of the original Smoke when it first came out, but that Smoke Plus stuff just closes my lungs up. Horrible ****.

DepecheHead101

Pat Sheen wrote: »

My original point was an objective one. Smoking is unhealthy whether the substance you're smoking contains tens, hundreds or thousands of compounds. Would it be logical to assume smoking a plastic like polythene would be safer because it's just one compound? I don't think so but apparently some do. And that IS that.

I certainly dont, so I would appreciate it if you did not put words in my mouth, if after COUNTLESS posts explaining how I am only basing my views on hope and guesswork you STILL continue to assume I think this is safe smoking. I said at best it COULD be safer than Cannabis. and after explaining terms like 'could' and 'best case scenario' to you dozens of times, you continue to post on in some bizzare ignorance.

You really are bringing the lolz hard.

sneakerfreak

DarkJager wrote: »

Pulse is the only one that does the job for me now. Smoke XXX only seems to last a few minutes. I was a big fan of the original Smoke when it first came out, but that Smoke Plus stuff just closes my lungs up. Horrible ****.

definitely is hard on the lungs,but stll quite popular all the same.fire'n'ice are also staring to get popular,as far as i know 'sky high' is also pulse just in diffrent packaging from another supplier

zimmii

A guy at college used to always buy Buzz and Pulse almost everyday and we'd smoke it almost every night, usually Buzz. But I never got any 'hit' off it and just seemed like a waste of lung health. It seemed to work for other people but I don't know if they were just being placebic or actually buzzing off it

ANYWAY. A few weeks ago I smoked some Pulse with a few people and suddenly I got the feeling that my nose was running or bleeding so I wiped but nothing was there, then realized that I could hear blood squirting inside my head behind my nose and could feel all the blood gushing up from my neck and into my brain. Then suddenly my heart started FREAKING out and I started tremoring beyond control.. mind you this was freaking me out so I'd panic, but the fact that my heart was already skipping beats just made it worse.. I genuinely thought I was going to die

It took 2 or 3 hours of freaking out to even notice any effects subside, and since that night I've been getting horrible 'cold' head rushes and general random wooziness or my eyesight warping. I went to A&E a week later because this was seriously scaring me but they said nothing was wrong with me and sent me home, assuming I was going in making something up. I still get head rushes and wooziness every single damn day now thanks to that pointless little piece of crap I smoked.. say even, 4 drags?
It was enough to make me quit smoking and I doubt I'll ever touch any narcotics again. FML

ScumLord

zimmii wrote: »

I went to A&E a week later because this was seriously scaring me but they said nothing was wrong with me and sent me home, assuming I was going in making something up.

Why did you go to A&E? Unless your spurting blood and in immediate threat of dyeing their not going to be all that interested in you. A local GP would be much better able to help, they'd look into all possible causes and keep much better track of your health.

The fact you have continuing symptoms is worrying, there could be any number of different things causing that, other avenues that doctors in A&E wouldn't have the time or inclination to follow. It could be completely stress related so I'd always go to a GP first.

greyed

May have been mentioned, but "legal hash" as its called, a sort of yellowish crumply powdery stuff available in head shops is excellent. Extremely similar to weed, but no drowsies after. Slightly cheaper too, definete significant "buzz"... none of this spice gold crap.