17,000 job cuts proposed... Does this sound like insanity to anyone else?

mrgaa1

Its time for a dictatorship - a tyrant if you like. Then they can remove all the unions, implement all necessary changes and lets get it done. We all know there are too many people out there getting far too well paid for the little they do. For unions to publicly state that well the country can go to hell we won't take a pay cut is outrageous.
Too many managers in far too many places, teachers etc... over-paid, too many TD's, what does the senate do?, too many agencies doing the same sort of work, too many town councils - why do we need them, why do we need county councils.
FFS we are a country of no more than 5million people. We are over administered and we need to slimline the system.
Cut the dole money by 10% not 5%.
Borrow more money and invest in jobs - create work. Our schools are a mess, roads not finished, where the f*ck is broadband, more technology jobs, more R&D into greener jobs and become a leader.
It makes sense to remove dead wood where not needed. It makes sense to make severe cuts. Severe financial issues require severe actions. And any unit that refuses ignore them and get it done. The longer term consequence of doing nothing is not worth experiencing.

gurramok

Shaughraun wrote: »

This to me is the most important question, and one that needs to be asked by everyone involved in this bloodbath- are the majority of these "snips" a direct result of bailing out the banks?

No. Bailing out the banks is an extra cost of bad govt policy conducted over the last several years.

These cuts are based on 2009 tax revenues which are about the same level as 2001 tax revenues with 2006 expenditure. http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pzcsCLFvURLWO5dSWjO2kbg&gid=0

What happened between 2001 and 2009 was a construction fuelled credit bubble where public sector pay was based on at the peak of that bubble in 2006. In other words, it will be many years before 2006 tax revenues will appear again hence the needed cuts now.

francish

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Seriously... I accept we need to save public money, but more unemployment? Nice way to prolong the vicious cycle of falling profits for companies = more redundancies to break even... Those 17,000 people will take more money out of circulation and add a further strain to the social welfare bill. Whatever we do to fix our economy, this cannot possibly be the right way forward...

Opinions?

It is insane to suggest that we should continue to pay/employ people who are adding no value. It is insane not to cut all the waste that has been built up during the Ahern decade. It is insane that we can’t simply sack 1/4 of public sector in the morning and not have to but up with Jack O'Connor, David Begg and co., listening to their nonsense. It's is insane that the Irish Government are so slow to react, how long to we want to stay in this recession.
The logic of your post suggests that we could solve unemployment crises by increasing the public sector, absolute nonsense.

P. Breathnach

superhooper wrote: »

SNIP should have been looking for efficiencies...

Of course they should, but the time-frame for their work would not have enabled a thorough exercise of that sort. Of course there are some inefficiencies in the organisation and delivery of services, and I don't think many people would dispute that. But the elimination of inefficiencies or, to be more realistic about what can be achieved, the reduction of inefficiencies to a tolerable minimum, would probably not yield savings on anything like the scale required.

superhooper

francish wrote: »

"Head count slashing is lazy" - there are too many headcounts, so some should be sacked. This is a fact. Explain how it's being lazy?

Cutting jobs for the sake of a head count will invariably lead to cutting of jobs that are productive and contribute to the economy. E.g cutting the number of teachers by say 50% will give you a great head count on paper but lead to a decrease in the standard of education particularly in the long term. This type of one sided recommendation is lazy.

P. Breathnach

Shaughraun wrote: »

This to me is the most important question, and one that needs to be asked by everyone involved in this bloodbath- are the majority of these "snips" a direct result of bailing out the banks?

No. There is no direct connection. But all of our economic problems touch on one another.

dresden8

gurramok wrote: »

You have a chance every 5 years to vote on how your pension is invested

Its explained here http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2009/02/08/story39365.asp

Dunno where you got 7.5%, did you leave out the tax relief on pensions part? .

If you follow the quote I got if from the report. Please pay attention. And where did the benchmarking figure come from, did you leave out the taxation of that amount? And reading your own link the 7.5% is in there as well. No wonder you never passed the public service reading comprehension test.

Oh, and multiple smileys don't actually make a point. If you have a point to make, please make it.

gurramok wrote: »

So 4% the pay cut really is.

"I don't know but a lot of short-term public servants have been let go" = temporary positions, they were going to be let go anyway, called contracts.

Very few permo public sector employees have been let go.

And, shock horror, not all the private sector has been let go, no matter how much the public sector bashers love to carry the unemployed as a banner before them.

Since you raised the point of how many public servants have been let go I think I'm within my rights on this board to ask for a reference/quotation as proof.

dresden8

gurramok wrote: »

Thats a 'pension levy', you'll get it back.

And as another point, many people who have joined the public service later in life will never qualify for anything more than the state contributory pension, which they qualify for through their PRSI contributions.

Their "pension levy" qualifies them for not 1 cent extra.

francish

superhooper wrote: »

Cutting jobs for the sake of a head count will invariably lead to cutting of jobs that are productive and contribute to the economy. E.g cutting the number of teachers by say 50% will give you a great head count on paper but lead to a decrease in the standard of education particularly in the long term. This type of one sided recommendation is lazy.

Who has proposed cutting teachers by 50%?

There are other way to improve productivity in education sytem than merely increaing numbers. At present, there is no real evaluation of teachers to ensure they are performing. You could cut teacher numbers by 20% and bring in productivity by bringing in proper evaluation system, sacking underperformers and rewarding achievers.

TheSpecialOne

whats with all the abuse towards teachers?!....im fairly new to this stuff so if someone could explain id be grateful...and if its about pay thats pretty ridiculous in my opinion as they are setting kids up for life....as for the holidays and stuff if its all so good why doesnt everyone do it especially with the big salary...maybe you werent good enough?!dont take it out on those who were good enough!by the way if this is the main issue sorry for the first part of this comment!

gurramok

dresden8 wrote: »

If you follow the quote I got if from the report. Please pay attention. And where did the benchmarking figure come from, did you leave out the taxation of that amount? And reading your own link the 7.5% is in there as well. No wonder you never passed the public service reading comprehension test.

No need to get personal.

It references 'wages'. Tax relief on pensions reduce that burden by half in my book. Still you will get the money back as its for your pension when you retire, private sector workers on less comparable pay for the same job and by large cannot afford a pension do not get their money back.

And, shock horror, not all the private sector has been let go, no matter how much the public sector bashers love to carry the unemployed as a banner before them.

Since you raised the point of how many public servants have been let go I think I'm within my rights on this board to ask for a reference/quotation as proof.

Ask the CSO. Its been reported in the media from all sides of the spectrum that the vast vast majority of newly unemployed were from the private sector and those that were not were on temporary contracts from the public sector.
Add to this the public sector numbers along with the recruitment embargo and its pretty clear that redundancies were very few number if any at all.

If there were redundancies for permos in the public sector, we would know about it as we pay for their employment.

francish

dresden8 wrote: »

And as another point, many people who have joined the public service later in life will never qualify for anything more than the state contributory pension, which they qualify for through their PRSI contributions.

Their "pension levy" qualifies them for not 1 cent extra.

It was a miserable 7.5% cut at most, get over it and get prepared for larger cuts. I know couples in the private sector who have suffered cuts to their net wage of over 50%. It angers me to listen to constant nonsense from public sector employees, get real, look at the state of countryS finances. WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BORROW MONEY INDEFINATELY.

itarumaa

gurramok wrote: »

It ain't that much lower to justify the much higher wage here. Have you ever been to France?

How about we compare ourselves to Finland, another expensive country whose public sector workers don't earn remotely as near as their Irish equivalents.

There is a saying in Finland, that roughly transferred would be: the career in public sector is long and narrow, so it basically means that your career is permanent, but the salary is not that good.

superhooper

francish wrote: »

Who has proposed cutting teachers by 50%?

There are other way to improve productivity in education sytem than merely increaing numbers. At present, there is no real evaluation of teachers to ensure they are performing. You could cut teacher numbers by 20% and bring in productivity by bringing in proper evaluation system, sacking underperformers and rewarding achievers.

No one said there would be a reduction of 50%. I used 50% as an example.

bug

gurramok wrote: »

Thats a 'pension levy', you'll get it back.

How many of the 415,000 unemployed came from the public sector?

roffle not so far, but we all knew it was going to happen.

where's the "jobs for life STFU" brigade, they are awful quiet?

I assume that they hope to achieve 17,000 public service jobs cuts by hoping people will take redundancy or early retirement etc before they have to start looking at the rest?
Where's the age profile of the public service?

In the case of third level,there are proposing the amalgamation of third level institutes, which, to the uninvolved eye, looks reasonable.

There are many facets of this, quality of courses and therefore graduates.
Considering they were repeating at us for the last god knows how many years, "Knowledge based economy" they had better not make a mess of consolidation.
Theory versus practical courses etc.
Consolidation in itself will lead to further job cuts, reducing overlapping admin etc. That part is practical.

There are a number of problems I have with this report with regard to the third level aspect, as that is the area I would be personally most interested in.

Regarding PRTLI - "the lack of verifiable economic benefits resulting from these investments"
and it goes on..
"This scheme has been in operation since 1998 and there is insufficient evidence of the positive economic impact of the programme to date. Subject to any contractual commitments, this cycle should be cancelled."

Well I could tell you about the researcher supported and funded under PRTLI, educated by the infrastructure from PRTLI to such a high level who went on to develop various high level products for Irish industry.
Measure it. Of course it's not an isolated case. My point is that just because it wasn't measured, doesn't mean it isnt there.

Which leads me on to this...

irish_bob wrote: »

wouldnt pay too much intention to public sector clones parroting the lines they heard at union camp , to the last man and woman they all utter the same slogans messrs begg and o connor briefed them with

WE DIDNT CAUSE THIS MESS

.. that my friend is the truth whatever way you look at it, not being unionised I can see that, the government caused this mess through large scale mis management.

My fear is that because Bertie and friends were afraid to tackle reformation of the Public Service back in the day, we will all suffer the consequences through knee jerk policies.

It's quite obvious to anyone they haven't a clue what they are doing but have to look like they are doing something.

dresden8

gurramok wrote: »

Ask the CSO. Its been reported in the media from all sides of the spectrum that the vast vast majority of newly unemployed were from the private sector

Maybe because the vast majority of employment is in the private sector? Since you raised the point it's up to you to provide figures/links/quotations. Please provide them.

And public sector pay includes contract workers, not just "permos"

ntlbell

How Strange wrote: »

.

Honestly, are we so complacent that we just sit and curse at the news? What does it take for Irish people to take to the streets and protest like the French?

like holding business's as hostages and demanding 100k a head or burn the place down?

francish

superhooper wrote: »

No one said there would be a reduction of 50%. I used 50% as an example.

Do you agree with my second point? I went to a secondary school where at least 50% of teachers were useless. There was no system to check performance. Some old middle aged man in tweed suit would appear in classroom once a year but I never saw any action being taken. All media commentary focuses on teacher numbers, suggesting that more teachers' equals better education.

ntlbell

c montgomery wrote: »

Slightly off topic but:

3 years ago i bought an appartment for myself as the thinking was if i dont get one now ill never be able to afford one. The only place i could afford was 22 miles from where i work and 20 miles from where i grew up and where my friends live.
Since buying the house i have had my wages reduced, shift rate cut and a number of extra taxes put on me.
I am currently in negative equity of about 100,000!!!
I hate where i live.
I hate the appartment.
I am now in a 2.5 year relationship and would like to start a family but with this much negative equity and living in an appartment its just not possable. I feel trapped and its starting to take its toll on me.

This is what i have gotten from the celtic tiger.

I ****1n hate the government but the opposition are little better.
They have screwed me up for the next decade at least.

huh? why are you annoyed at the government because YOU made shockingly bad financial descions, the goverment are not to blame for your current circumstances you are

TheInquisitor

Sounds like the smartest thing i've heard in years! Disappointed they didn't cut the minimum wage by at least 2 euro and also that they only cut the dole by 5%. Do we really want to turn out like britain where 47% of the country are on some kind of benefit?

superhooper

francish wrote: »

Do you agree with my second point? I went to a secondary school where at least 50% of teachers were useless. There was no system to check performance. Some old middle aged man in tweed suit would appear in classroom once a year but I never saw any action being taken. All media commentary focuses on teacher numbers, suggesting that more teachers' equals better education.

I totally agree. I'd imagine everyone has come across poor performance in various aspects the public service and thats what pisses people off the most when they are tring to defend themselves.

unwyse

lighten up people,its only a joke.biffo just wants to give us all a good laugh while he saunters off on his summer hols,itll never happen!!!! viva la revolution.

Fishtits

Firstly, I haven't read all the posts, so sorry if this is off tack. Just want to point something out.

Matt Cooper, Today FM & the news staff led this evening with the line that X thousand Civil Servants, according to the An Bord Snip Nua, should be made redundant.

Bull****.

Reducing CS no's by X thousand does not mean redundancies, it could be achieved by natural retirement. ie nobody is served with a vacate & bugger off notice.

Pr*ck

TheInquisitor

Fishtits wrote: »

Firstly, I haven't read all the posts, so sorry if this is off tack. Just want to point something out.

Matt Cooper, Today FM & the news staff led this evening with the line that X thousand Civil Servants, according to the An Bord Snip Nua, should be made redundant.

Bull****.

Reducing CS no's by X thousand does not mean redundancies, it could be achieved by natural retirement. ie nobody is served with a vacate & bugger off notice.

Pr*ck

17000 would retire over a few months to a year? What have you been smoking!?

francish

c montgomery wrote: »

Slightly off topic but:

3 years ago i bought an appartment for myself as the thinking was if i dont get one now ill never be able to afford one. The only place i could afford was 22 miles from where i work and 20 miles from where i grew up and where my friends live.
Since buying the house i have had my wages reduced, shift rate cut and a number of extra taxes put on me.
I am currently in negative equity of about 100,000!!!
I hate where i live.
I hate the appartment.
I am now in a 2.5 year relationship and would like to start a family but with this much negative equity and living in an appartment its just not possable. I feel trapped and its starting to take its toll on me.

This is what i have gotten from the celtic tiger.

I ****1n hate the government but the opposition are little better.
They have screwed me up for the next decade at least.

You, like most other people who bought during the last 5 years are or will be in negative equity because you made a bad decision. Certainly there are things the government could have done to dampen the bubble but at the end of the day, individuals have to take personal responsibility for their decisions. I am sorry you are in this mess. Everyone has friends and/or family who are in the same boat.

superhooper

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Sounds like the smartest thing i've heard in years! Disappointed they didn't cut the minimum wage by at least 2 euro and also that they only cut the dole by 5%. Do we really want to turn out like britain where 47% of the country are on some kind of benefit?

Don't suppose the min wage was part of their agenda but I do agree it is too high having increased by 45% since 2002!!!

amacca

francish wrote: »

Who has proposed cutting teachers by 50%?

There are other way to improve productivity in education sytem than merely increaing numbers. At present, there is no real evaluation of teachers to ensure they are performing. You could cut teacher numbers by 20% and bring in productivity by bringing in proper evaluation system, sacking underperformers and rewarding achievers.

Having worked as one in the past Id agree with this if we also provide said teachers with proper resources and also "evaluate" the students so its possible to discipline the small but exceptionally disruptive minority of students that can only be described as delinquents so that said teacher might actually be allowed be productive in their work.

video cameras in class and zero tolerance of disruptive behaviour (home holiday extended until said student stops disrupting) might kill two birds with the one stone here?

otherwise pay them the premium for having to nearly do the impossible as things stand in a lot of schools?

same goes for frontline gardai who bring criminals to court only for a judge to give them derisory sentences and the scumbags walk out smiling. Reduce their pay if they are properly resourced and criminals are punished properly in this country!

deadhead13

TheInquisitor wrote: »

17000 would retire over a few months to a year? What have you been smoking!?

Crazy as it seems, that is in fact what was proposed.

c_dog

this country is a joke

irish_bob

Shaughraun wrote: »

This to me is the most important question, and one that needs to be asked by everyone involved in this bloodbath- are the majority of these "snips" a direct result of bailing out the banks?

no , thier a direct result of bertie throwing money at public sector workers via unions so as to keep them voting FF , quangos were also created by the hundred , not to create jobs or services , to create FF voters

bug

irish_bob wrote: »

no , thier a direct result of bertie throwing money at public sector workers via unions so as to keep them voting FF , quangos were also created by the hundred , not to create jobs or services , to create FF voters

Oh come on.

They threw money at everything! without any long term planning, or measurement of that money, including forseable practical goals. It's always been the issue in this country.

At least be realistic and inclusive.

jank

c montgomery wrote: »

Slightly off topic but:

3 years ago i bought an appartment for myself as the thinking was if i dont get one now ill never be able to afford one. The only place i could afford was 22 miles from where i work and 20 miles from where i grew up and where my friends live.
Since buying the house i have had my wages reduced, shift rate cut and a number of extra taxes put on me.
I am currently in negative equity of about 100,000!!!
I hate where i live.
I hate the appartment.
I am now in a 2.5 year relationship and would like to start a family but with this much negative equity and living in an appartment its just not possable. I feel trapped and its starting to take its toll on me.

This is what i have gotten from the celtic tiger.

I ****1n hate the government but the opposition are little better.
They have screwed me up for the next decade at least.

Did the government make you buy the apartment? How about owning up and taking responsiblity for your own choices rather than blaming someone else.

gaeilgegrinds

French teachers get paid 75% less than us? I lived in France for quite some time and really don't see how they could live on this...

gaeilgegrinds

And as a teacher I'd love more checks, then maybe more good teachers would be let teach and get in that door but for now we're doing the best we can. Surely it's not our fault as teachers we are not checked on more often?

deadhead13

jank wrote: »

Did the government make you buy the apartment? How about owning up and taking responsiblity for your own choices rather than blaming someone else.

You have a point, but as much government would want us to believe otherwise , they did play a significant role in Ireland's unique inability to cope with with the current global recession. So FF & Co. have to take some of the responsiblity for the position that c montgomery and 1000's of others find themselves in. I think he has a few legitimate grievances.

dresden8

deadhead13 wrote: »

You have a point, but as much government would want us to believe otherwise , they did play a significant role in Ireland's unique inability to cope with with the current global recession. So FF & Co. have to take some of the responsiblity for the position that c montgomery and 1000's of others find themselves in. I think he has a few legitimate grievances.

Indeed, if anybody had pointed out the error of his ways Berte would have invited them to commit suicide.

Always remember Bertie. Never let him be re-habilitated in the future.

c montgomery

irish_bob wrote: »

so its the goverments fault you bought in an area which is impractical , perhaps you should have rented and avoided being tied down with a mortgage on what was obviously a very expensive property

No its their fault for letting the property market spiral out of control. Its their fault that due to planning laws theirs loads of people in a similar boat as myself living in commuter towns like myself with which they have no links.
I could have rented but at the time it seemed like a good investment due to the government spawned perception the good times were here to stay.
Plus at the time i was paying less in a mortage that i would have been renting you patronising Pr1ck.

bug

deadhead13 wrote: »

You have a point, but as much government would want us to believe otherwise , they did play a significant role in Ireland's unique inability to cope with with the current global recession. So FF & Co. have to take some of the responsiblity for the position that c montgomery and 1000's of others find themselves in. I think he has a few legitimate grievances.

Indeed. Completely as an aside, and as this montgomery poster is getting slated for his misfortune in believing the bubble wouldn't burst, like those we entrusted did...

...As for having kids in the new, non-city centre, tenaments, our grandmothers and grandfathers did it with less than we have, we all survived as prodgeny to tell the tale.
The cycle continues albeit with a different face of debt and the current non-existance of any form of social responsibility, but on a up note, so will we.
We'll all get on with it.

jumpguy

How Strange wrote: »

I want to know at what stage Irish people are going to get off their lazy fat asses and revolt against these arrogant f*ckers in government.

Not until the Irish is united against a common enemy, and at the moment, everyone is divided. We'll just resort to the ole tactic of emigration.

Speaking about this, is it just me who thought the RTE report tonight on the Department of Arts, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs was the biggest joke of all? About 10 fellows at computers...translating old gravestones. I could feel the bile coming up into my throat in disgust. Our public sector is just too inefficient and the public sector should never be the corner stone of an economy tbh.

ejmaztec

The government probably love it when their subjects are tearing each other apart. They can then sneak off on exotic summer holidays while the country festers on.

ejmaztec

jumpguy wrote: »

Not until the Irish is united against a common enemy, and at the moment, everyone is divided. We'll just resort to the ole tactic of emigration.

Speaking about this, is it just me who thought the RTE report tonight on the Department of Arts, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs was the biggest joke of all? About 10 fellows at computers...translating old gravestones. I could feel the bile coming up into my throat in disgust. Our public sector is just too inefficient and the public sector should never be the corner stone of an economy tbh.

Where to?

jumpguy

ejmaztec wrote: »

Where to?

I know lots of people who've already emigrated. Some to Canada, some to Australia. Australia is not even in a recession yet, and Canada's problems are meagre. Yes, both countries are facing rising unemployment, but there is a far, far, far better chance of finding work there. And, everyone who I know that has so far emigrated has found work.

jank

c montgomery wrote: »

I could have rented but at the time it seemed like a good investment due to the government spawned perception the good times were here to stay.

????:rolleyes:
Sorry but you will get no sympathy from me. You saw yourself making big money from buying an apartment and jumping on the property train. Whoooppiee! LOL we will all be millionaires!

How about your perception? How about what you think! Or do you swallow everything the government tells you.
Do a google on Sheeple.

Oh by the way, I think FF are a cancer on the country but the people that are stuck with negative equity and are giving out about this need to take responsibility for their actions. Nobody ever ever ever forces you to buy a house. Government of course has to take the blame for its actions and bad decisions but where is the responsibility of the individual. You are equally culpable IMO.

This bubble was seen back in 2001, yet people kept on buying! cause Ireland was different. You and others were duped, not a nice feeling but hey its your fault...

Senna

This 17k redundancies is just a smoke screen, just something reported so FF can look like their doing something, i had high hopes of an board snip, but it produced very little. The 17k redundancies is nothing more than 17k staff will not be hired after 17k staff retire, contracts end, etc nothing more.

The PS needs a comprehensive evaluation, office by office, department by department, then non-performance or job duplications should be sacked.
I would guarantee even with a recruitment policy in place for areas that need manpower identified by the evaluation, a lot more money could be saved and we would have the bases for a better operated public service. During a recession, any country should be implementing policies that will lead to a more cost effective and stable platform for the years ahead, not plastering over the problems with hopes that it will "sort its self out" when the good times come back again:rolleyes:.

Firetrap

TheInquisitor wrote: »

17000 would retire over a few months to a year? What have you been smoking!?

They're definitely trying to scare the bejesus out of anyone who's close to retirement age. I don't know how many people have decided to retire (closing date is September) but my guess is that they're hoping An Bord Snip's findings will concentrate some minds. Anecdotally, I know of some people a year or so off 60 who have decided that it's time to get to hell out of the public service. The pension levy took a nice few euros out of people's pay packets and a taxed lump sum would be another cost.

c montgomery

jank wrote: »

????:rolleyes:
Sorry but you will get no sympathy from me. You saw yourself making big money from buying an apartment and jumping on the property train. Whoooppiee! LOL we will all be millionaires!

How about your perception? How about what you think! Or do you swallow everything the government tells you.
Do a google on Sheeple.

Oh by the way, I think FF are a cancer on the country but the people that are stuck with negative equity and are giving out about this need to take responsibility for their actions. Nobody ever ever ever forces you to buy a house. Government of course has to take the blame for its actions and bad decisions but where is the responsibility of the individual. You are equally culpable IMO.

This bubble was seen back in 2001, yet people kept on buying! cause Ireland was different. You and others were duped, not a nice feeling but hey its your fault...

When i say investment i never intended turning it over in a year to make a quick buck. Rents were out of control so i taught i could but rather than rent and maybe in a few years trade up to something bigger.
I know i have to take responsibility for my actions but i was led to believe that their at worst would be a soft landing.
I am not an idiot and this has been the worst decision i have ever made, a decision i will be paying for for the rest of my working life.
I just think ff are somewhat to blame for this too.

jank

c montgomery wrote: »

When i say investment i never intended turning it over in a year to make a quick buck. Rents were out of control so i taught i could but rather than rent and maybe in a few years trade up to something bigger.
I know i have to take responsibility for my actions but i was led to believe that their at worst would be a soft landing.
I am not an idiot and this has been the worst decision i have ever made, a decision i will be paying for for the rest of my working life.
I just think ff are somewhat to blame for this too.

At least its a wake up call for you not to listen to vested interest groups. Soft landing my ass, not once in the history of the world has there been a soft landing after a property bubble, never.....and guess what that still holds true today. You may not be an idiot but only the very naive would swallow the crap that was being said back in the good times.

Well you know what they say fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on......

Senna

jank wrote: »

but only the very naive would swallow the crap that was being said back in the good times.

I'm sorry but thats just crap, 100's of thousands bought during the bubble, they may not have research the purchase enough, but when FF are offering bigger and bigger intensives to buy property and the media w****rs were/are proclaiming property as the messiah, the average joe didn't stand a chance. People have to take responsibility for the decisions they made, but have every right to blame the charlatans that propped up the market just to line their own pockets, just as much as they blame themselves.

maninasia

Since this is only a recommendation not all of the proposals will pass through...less than 1.8 billion will ultimately be cut in my books. That leaves a further 4/5 of a hole with no way to fill it. And that's just for this year. The government also needs to borrow a further 20 billion next year to cover the annual deficit, however next year's economy will see further shrinkage resulting in an even LESS revenue than this year with even MORE social welfare beneficiaries (20 billion spend and counting!). You can't hide from the numbers and the economy will have to be fully restructured or undergo a decade(s) long recession. What about every public sector worker taking a 20% pay cut and cuttting staff levels by 10% and cutting social welfare at least further 10%. Because there will definitely not be enough money to go around without either massive job cuts, massive reductions in public services or huge tax hikes and tax hikes will just encourage all the talent to leave faster.

I can also see the government hoping and probably encouraging as many people as possible will emigrate....while they earn more than politicians from the US or Germany..shame on them. However one thing is for sure, emigration will be the best option for many. Emigrating is not all bad, it's a big world out there and I'd encourage people to think seriously about options now and look forward not backwards. If you are in medical/pharma/online services you'll probably be okay. Otherwise take the chance to get education now because that's where the jobs are...technical skill sets.

The government and even the rest of the TDs are just earning a salary right now and going through the motions, taking their holidays of 2-3 mths is proof that there is no commitment to leading the nation. Where are the leaders?

20 billion annual hole debt requirement
20 billion in social welfare spending and rising fast
Even less revenue as economy shrinks.

1.8 billion saving = Waste of time.

K-9

Senna wrote: »

This 17k redundancies is just a smoke screen, just something reported so FF can look like their doing something, i had high hopes of an board snip, but it produced very little. The 17k redundancies is nothing more than 17k staff will not be hired after 17k staff retire, contracts end, etc nothing more.

They will do it as it is their only hope for re-election or probably more accurately, a little credibility in the future.

They'll get the 17,000 between temporary jobs and natural retirements, no bothers.