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Is it possible for the masses to influence the direction the EU is going?

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    #32
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    bijapos wrote: »
    P.Breathnach: If you cant be bothered reading a couple of lines of a post then dont comment on it.

    It is fair to comment on the part I read.


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    #33
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    bijapos wrote: »
    turgon: On the day we voted no Martin Schulze (spelling??) of the German Social Democrats and leader of their bloc in the EU seriously questioned Irelands vote and in the coming days in the German media he, Merkel and others made no doubt about the fact that Ireland would have to "rethink" (ueberlegen) this vote.

    The EU I would think, told Cowan and co to have a new referendum but it was pretty obvious this would happen when the first tallies came in at the last referendum.

    No matter what way you look at it, it will be an embarassing episode in Euro politics. Like I have said in a number of posts I expect it to be passed in October but it still doesnt make it democratically just or correct.

    If any number of commentators say that Man Utd should win a match, and Man Utd do win the match, that does not mean that the commentators won the match.

    The choice of whether to hold a second referendum was the choice of the Irish government, just as the choice to hold a first one was.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #34
    ixtlan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭ixtlan


    Zuiderzee wrote: »

    When do you think the Government should start actualy listening to the electorate?

    We recently had the EU parliament elections. The electorate returned 11 pro-Lisbon MEPs out of 12. These are the most relevant elections to the EU obviously, and these successful candidates help to shape EU policy along with the governments of the states.

    If one took this at face value one would assume the electorate approved of Lisbon or at least approved of the policies of those winning parties, which favour Lisbon, since they rejected an opportunity to vote for Sinn Fein and Libertas.

    I'll be realistic and say that it really means those are the candidates that people trust and like... so if those candidates are the ones that are pro-Lisbon, what message should the government take from that?

    Ix


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    #35
    Imposter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭Imposter


    ixtlan wrote: »
    I'll be realistic and say that it really means those are the candidates that people trust and like... so if those candidates are the ones that are pro-Lisbon, what message should the government take from that?
    Or I could be equally as realistic and say that people voted for them because Libertas and Sinn Fein are more against their interests. But that doesn't neccesarily mean that they fully agree with FF, FG etc's european viewpoint.


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    #36
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    I still don't understand why people think that SF, Coir, Libertas, Socialist Party, Socialist Workers party etc. have ridiculous domestic policies, that it's impossible to vote for, and yet trust them completely when it comes to their European policies.

    You should ask yourself, if I don't trust them to run the country, why do I trust their opinions of, and policies for, the EU?


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    #37
    ixtlan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭ixtlan


    Imposter wrote: »
    Or I could be equally as realistic and say that people voted for them because Libertas and Sinn Fein are more against their interests. But that doesn't neccesarily mean that they fully agree with FF, FG etc's european viewpoint.

    Adding to PopeBuckfastXVI's reply...

    It's rare that someone will fully agree with any EU viewpoint. However one has to take some position and not say no to everything and every candidate.

    If you think that for you Sinn Fein and Libertas do not represent you... and you think the same of FF/FG etc... then what then?

    The reality is that if there was a reasonable way forward different to the current consensus, some major central party would promote it. Maybe that would be Labour. Then their policies would be part of a future government and they would refuse to sign up to a future treaty unless it agreed with their views.

    However I'll be realistic here. The reason all the centre parties agree with the EU direction is that this direction is comfortably centre orientated. It's not Marxist so Sinn Fein don't agree. It's not right-wing so Libertas don't agree.

    Ix.


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