Street Fighter 4 Balance Tweaks

Dreddybajs

Nah, he can beat me pretty easily. :pac:

animaX

Azza wrote: »

Akuma: Maybe get rid of his super raging demon and replace it a fireball super that can be setup.

+1. I play akuma in third strike but this is the reason I don't use him in SF4. He would be great with a messatsu hadoken

FoamyMushroom

Im agreed on the Akuma Ultra... If he had a fireball ultra like he did in 3rd Strike, I'd be flying along..
There's not many set ups for his ultra other than, Focus attack then Ultra, but there's a risk of hitting with a light punch or so and also there's the fact that when Akuma does his Ultra after a focus it does 465 damage points, his normal ultra which takes 596 points at the max without focus...
then there's the way of tricking the Opponent to jump over a fireball then ultra, but its not 100% thrust worthy...

He needs a new Ultra... Fireball ftw

Azza

Akuma can get the Ultra a few ways, like a predicted Devils revserse landing and to punish moves with long recovery times on block or whiff. But still its tricky. but overall Akuma is a fairly solid character.

L31mr0d

Azza wrote: »

but overall Akuma is a fairly solid character.

I think the problem with Akumas Ultra is that it doesn't change the game like a lot of other players Ultra will. With most of the other characters as soon as they get an Ultra the game changes and a lot of the opponents options are locked down, forcing them to expect a link into the Ultra.

This isn't the case with Akuma, if the opponent knows when an Ultra will land it's easy to not make those mistakes, and they know, outside of focus crumple, there's no way for Akuma to go on the offensive and set it up.

I think the Ultra should stay the same though, but the super should be changed and buffed, like AnimaX said, to be more like his SFIII:TS messatsu hadoken

Kirby

I know what you are saying.....but it seems that every high level match I watch, Akuma's Ultra comes out. Sometimes it hits, somtimes it doesn't but the top guys know how to get it in. Obviously, its no ryu, sagat or rufus ultra, but its better than most man.

L31mr0d

Kirby wrote: »

Obviously, its no ryu, sagat or rufus ultra, but its better than most man.

Better how? In options to land it? I don't think the options for landing it are anywhere near as varied as the majority of other characters. That being said, I don't think they should change anything about the Ultra, it does enough damage that it should be hard to land. I just think throwing in a projectile super would make Akuma matches a lot more interesting.

Dreddybajs

Kirby wrote: »

Obviously, its no ryu, sagat or rufus ultra, but its better than most man.

Really disagree with this, I think it's nowhere near one of the best ultras.

Kirby

Okay, some of you guys need some reading comprehension classes.

Kirby wrote: »

IObviously, its no ryu, sagat or rufus ultra, but its better than most man.

I never said it was the best, I said its above average....which it is. Okay, he cant combo into it....but loads of other characters cant either. And akuma's ultra does excellent damage. If you watch evo you can see the good akuma's score with it. Yes, its hard to land in that you cant just jab like balrog and hit confirm all your crap....but I think it does so much damage that its fair. People dont see it alot at our level, but some of the setups for it by the pros are very clever.

FoamyMushroom

Kirby wrote: »

I know what you are saying.....but it seems that every high level match I watch, Akuma's Ultra comes out. Sometimes it hits, somtimes it doesn't but the top guys know how to get it in

But if you noticed aswell, the majority of top players that use Akuma (Momochi) for Example doesnt rely on his Ultra at all, he use's it if he knows he hit against a focus.. which is hard to determin imo.. But Been a Akuma player I dont rely on his ultra that much at all, maybe once or twice when I know I will hit ill do it hands down..

But again to tweaking Akuma, If he had a fireball ultra or so. It would make his FACD alot more worth it other than doing a fierce fireball imo

cherryghost

give azza a pad with only half the buttons, that'll balance things out nicely :pac:

Leprekaun

Azza wrote: »

Just thinking about balance in SF IV and generally its quite good, but not perfect, just thinking how I would attempt to balance it. Looking at specific characters.

Abel: Not sure on this guy, don't have experience but he needs help againt Gief.

Akuma: Seems pretty good as is. Maybe get rid of his super raging demon and replace it a fireball super that can be setup.

Balrog: Generally seems quite good.

Blanka: Needs to have at least one more set up for his ultra.

Cammy: Not sure on her as I haven't seen her much. Her Spin Kuncle and Holligan throw seem very poor. I'd probably speed up her Spin Kuncle to make it harder to punish and give her a mix up option for her holligan launch so she can throw out a kick in it rather than just slide or throw/airthrow. I have that kick is counterable but not as easy as regular hooligan slide.

Chun Li: Ultra with better damage and improved health.

C.Viper: Not sure. Probably bring her health to average

Dhalsim: Seems good as is, maybe a slight health boost. Reduce priority of round house knee, but increase anti-air prioirty of back+mp force him to choose the correct one to stuff certain jump ins.

Dan: Give him his Reverse Raging Demon (Otoko Michi) and Premium Sign projectile and alot more taunts.

E. Honda: general damage output nerf. Light punch torpedo (with slightly reduced range) and ex.torpedo should go threw fireballs.

El Furete: Health brought up to normal.

Fei-Long: No idea.

Gen: Better damage output buff and health buff.

Gouken: No idea.

Guile: General damage buff plus better ultra set ups.

Ken: Not sure.

M.Bison: One other reasonable setup for his ultra and an improved priority with his hell attack versus Ryu's jumping mp and Rufus Jumping hard kick. Should be a case of whoever throws out the attack first should have priority. I'd also give him some random stuff like fake slide and give his skull driver attack the ability to cross over. Maybe give him a short jump to help in the Guile match up. Also give him his cape at the start of the first round. He needs also a Tuesday quote when he wins.

Rose: Maybe an offensive ultra setup. Better priority on her Soul Throw.

Rufus: Looks pretty good as is. Might go for a slight reduction in health (maybe 50 points)

Ryu: Remove dragons punchs ability to juggle opponets off the ground. Even with FADC it should not set up super or ultra from a ground hit, although any jump in's hit by DP should still set up all Ryu's current stuff. Add a frame or two of added start up time to dragon punch to make reversals harder.

Sagat: Health reduced to average, damage output nerfed to a more reasonable level on everything bar his tiger uppercut. Remove high kick juggle ability. Ultra and super damage slightly nerfed in damage output.

Sakura: Not sure. Needs buffs somewhere.

Seth: Ultra does not go full screen only 2/3rds.

Vega: Speed up his wall dive and rolling crystal flash. Better priority on his Scarlet Terror to help him on wakeup. Should not loose super metre if he misses his super (should only loose one bar at most). His mask and claw should not be knocked off as easy. At least one reasonable set up for his ultra.

Zangief: Health reduced by 100 points to 1100. Slight damage output nerf.
Slight damage nerf to super. 2 or 3 additional frames of start up time added to ultra. Lariat should be totally immune to Seths Ultra, pretty much all Zangief crouch moves should have priority over Seths stretch punch. Green hand should have slightly easier timings to absorb fireballs. Reduced negative frames on his green hand. Lariat adds a small bit to his dizzy meter.


Well what you guys think.

I think Ken is ok compared to Ryu. Ken can combo in his ultra like Ryu, just needs a bit more concentration to FADC on the 2nd hit of the Fierce DP.

I think Fei's flying kick (forgot its name but its the one that can go over projectiles and it triple hits) should be made quicker. Also they need to make his ultra link better because considering he has very limited combos, they need him to deal more damage.

Dreddybajs

They had to slow Fei's chicken wing down to get rid of his infinite.

Leprekaun

Oh really? I haven't updated my game actually so now its even slower :O

Azza

Hey at the same time as slowings Fei's Chicken Wing they gave it some invincibility frames to help it get over fireballs. Its priority is very good.

Kirby

Exactly. Slower out the gate, but its alot better on startup with extra invincibility.

Honestly, I think Fei is a good character with only 2 real issues. His shocking ultra makes him low tier. If he had a decent ultra and a new command grab type move, he would be very useful.

Kirby

see guys? ShadyK got akumas ultra out no problem against justin wongs rufus in the finals. Took like 70% too.

And then Sanfords Akuma got an ultra in against Eduardo's Honda too.....TWICE.

Then Sanford got Justin wong with an ultra too in the next match. These are the best guys in the world....and are getting caught by it. Anyway, my point is made

Dreddybajs

That Honda could've just jumped to avoid it though...

blag

Kirby wrote: »

see guys? ShadyK got akumas ultra out no problem against justin wongs rufus in the finals. Took like 70% too.

And then Sanfords Akuma got an ultra in against Eduardo's Honda too.....TWICE.

Then Sanford got Justin wong with an ultra too in the next match. These are the best guys in the world....and are getting caught by it. Anyway, my point is made

Sanford landing the Ultra between the messiah hits was awesome.His execution is fantastic.

Dreddybajs

Yeah, top Marvel players can't be beaten for execution really - most players couldn't hope to play Cammy that way I feel. Sanford owns

Kirby

Dreddybajs wrote: »

That Honda could've just jumped to avoid it though...

one of them, yes, was a mistake. But you are missing the point a little bit. We arent as good as them. They make mistakes. We make more. The ultra is hittable at that level, its hittable at ours.

Dreddybajs

I didn't say it's unlandable, just that it's not one of the better ultras in the game imo

Kirby

Apart from the obvious 3 of sagat ryu and rufus, who else has a better one?

Zangiefs does great damage and has like a 1 frame startup, but like Akumas most players see it coming and its not easy to land because of this.

Vipers is very comboable and quite good but doesn't do enough damage.

Blankas does the best chip damage in the game....but good players will avoid the chip and is only comboable off of crouching medium kick which players see coming, so, again, its hard to hit with.

The only arguements you could make would be chun li's, Balrogs and abels as being better than akuma's imo. So thats 6 better. The rest are on a par or worse. tbh I think thats pretty good out of a cast of 19 characters. In the final 8 of evo it hit a crap load. Maybe im alone here, but I think its quite good. Its harder to hit with Guile's and Fei long's by a long way...and they dont do any damage compared to good old akuma.

Jim

Rufus is pretty easy to combo into, as well as Cammy's with the range of her jumping fierce kick.

I probably would have disagreed with you overall and said his Ultra is fairly ****, but after watching EVO and seeing it connecting so many times at the right moments I've changed my mind.

[edit]You mentioned Rufus, nvm me ><[/edit]

Kirby

Jim wrote: »

Rufus is pretty easy to combo into

Kirby wrote: »

Apart from the obvious 3 of sagat ryu and rufus

. You forgot to mention it does good damage. Yeh, i think most people would class rufus's as being great.

Cammy's is definately the best ultra of the console characters....and she isn't used enough at high level to count her out.... but I don't think I would rate it better. Its about on a par. Its about as tricky to land it as Akumas and does less damage. Looks cool tho. I love the way if you finish a round with it, she breaks their necks with a creak.

edit : Ah, you edited. now i look silly!

K.O.Kiki

I'm so glad I got SDoom's Guile Ultra TRADING with a meaty Hadouken on video.

MAN that has crappy priority!

Owwmykneecap

Ultra's need to die full stop.

I'd replace them with a rage mode, Character glows red, is stronger and quicker takes less damage, and can juggle more. something like that.

Give characters back moves they have in other games.

eg Ryu's Joudan kick and fake hadoken.

Give characters a second super (possibly only when witha full super bar and Rage mode, not sure if thats a good idea or not...) that is significantly different from regular super.
eg
Ryu: denjin
Bison: Psycho Cannon from Ex plus Alpha
Akuma: D,D,D +PPP from SF III
Rose: Give her custom combo time

Bring in some sort of red parry to help stop some chars long block strings into tick throws.

Fix the jumping (the arcs are "wrong") and giver everyone (or at least most)a Super Jump.

Give c. Viper an Air Dash

Replace Ryu and Ken's charcter models.

Make pokes and general movement much faster
And sort out the bizare hit boxes and priorities on some moves.

That's some of what I would to to the game mechanics, I'll think longer about the individual nerfs and boosts some chars need.

K.O.Kiki

Owwmykneecap wrote:

I'd replace them with a rage mode, Character glows red, is stronger and quicker takes less damage, and can juggle more. something like that.

You've just described Tekken 6 :pac: