Shortage of used cars?

BigZack

I met with a dealer recently who said that sourcing decent used cars in Ireland is becoming harder and harder. With new car sales down, he said that the lack of trade-ins will eventually lead to a scarcity of 06, 07 and 08 cars in the market. Importing from the UK is no longer as attractive as they have the same problem and sterling has moved the wrong way making the cars too expensive.

No doubt this will drive up the price of what's out there on Irish forecourts. Maybe things will start to turn around for the industry and buyers will be able to get a decent trade-in price on a new motor?

Lex Luthor

same heard from Sheehys, Naas recently..

old boy

in todays financial climate the cash is either not there or else the buyer will not part with dosh as easially as before. but then i am a bangernomics head

road_high

I remember saying this a few months back to my aul lad. If there are feck all new cars being sold in 09, where are all the "bargain" 2nd hand cars of 2 or 3 years time going to come from exactly? They won't be there, and the UK similarly I would imagine. A shortage could a real possibility then. It is the market adjusting itself to supply/demand.

DublinDilbert

BigZack wrote: »

I met with a dealer recently who said that sourcing decent used cars in Ireland is becoming harder and harder. With new car sales down, he said that the lack of trade-ins will eventually lead to a scarcity of 06, 07 and 08 cars in the market. Importing from the UK is no longer as attractive as they have the same problem and sterling has moved the wrong way making the cars too expensive.

It sounds like bull to be honest.... It sounds more like something an estate agent would say (maybe estate agents are moving into car sales? )...

How is importing from the UK any less attractive than a year ago?
http://www.exchange-rates.org/history/EUR/GBP/G/365
A year ago GBP£1= €1.27
Now GBP£1= €1.17
So basically imports are more expensive than last Christmas, but still about 10% cheaper than this time last year!

Also as prices have come down the value used to calculate VRT has/is come/ing down, still making imports cheaper than a few years ago.

Also if you pick up a new-ish import with low C02 emissions, you'll be in a lower VRT band anyway...

BigZack wrote: »

No doubt this will drive up the price of what's out there on Irish forecourts. Maybe things will start to turn around for the industry and buyers will be able to get a decent trade-in price on a new motor?

Every month that goes by, what's on Irish forecourts goes down in value...

galwaytt

in theory, it sounds right. In practice, it isn't. Myself - and a few others - have cars that aren't getting calls at any price........

Churchy

galwaytt wrote: »

in theory, it sounds right. In practice, it isn't. Myself - and a few others - have cars that aren't getting calls at any price........

If your refering to the fifteen year old Porsche's in your sig , its hardly the same as 06/07/08 "retail" ready family cars.

bigoiler

As a used car dealer I have to agree that there is becoming a shortage of fresh used cars,new cars are not selling so trade ins are not being generated.I am now paying upto €1000 more for stock than i was paying 3 months ago for almost identical cars.

_Kaiser_

Is part of the problem also not that older pre-08 cars are stuck on the old tax system as well. I'd imagine that when the time comes to change my 06 Passat, I'll pay a penalty somewhere for that.

When you then add in the mileage I do, I'm guessing I'll get buttons for it even though she's serviced regularly (full dealer history so far) and kept like new

Pity, cause I wouldn't mind an A6 or maybe a Passat CC actually

Big Nasty

Defo true - you can buy a **** heap anywhere but good used cars at reasonable prices are becoming harder to source and driving prices up.

newbie1001

What a load of bull! Shortage of second hand cars me arse - sounds similar to estate agent rubbish to talk up the property market. You realise there is an island just beside ours with a population of 61 million. Even if there was not a single car sold here, and even combined with a slowdown in the UK, they have more than enough stock to supply our demand.

crosstownk

There is (or at least there will be) a shortage of certain used cars. Folks that used to change regularly are now not doing so because of the deteriorating economic situation. Those that do wish to change are finding it much harder to get finance to trade up. As a result they are holding onto their cars so these cars are not in the market place. There will be few 2009 cars on the market in years to come too as there were as many new cars sold in 6 months in 2009 as there were in January 2008!

Whether or not this drives the prices up remains to be seen. With dealers slashing prices on pre-reg and ex hire drives, any increase in value is, at this point in time, a long way off.

If you're in the market for a fresh enough motor and you can finance it then there are still great deals to be had out there. Although if you've a trade in be prepared for a lower than expected for your current car - pay attention to the cost to change and don't get too caught up with what your trade in is worth.

newbie1001

But this lower number of '09 cars will be bolstered by a plentiful supply coming in from the UK - this thread makes it sound like there will be some second hand car shortage crisis!

crosstownk

newbie1001 wrote: »

But this lower number of '09 cars will be bolstered by a plentiful supply coming in from the UK - this thread makes it sound like there will be some second hand car shortage crisis!

It won't be a crisis - that's for sure. The UK does have a plentiful supply for a market of our size. When/if sterling strengthens and bearing in mind that used values on some models in the UK are currently increasing (Glass's Guide), it is quite possible that the price tags here will increase too.

Churchy

newbie1001 wrote: »

What a load of bull! Shortage of second hand cars me arse - sounds similar to estate agent rubbish to talk up the property market. You realise there is an island just beside ours with a population of 61 million. Even if there was not a single car sold here, and even combined with a slowdown in the UK, they have more than enough stock to supply our demand.

It may sound bull but its very true. I'm a dealer based in NI sourcing in GB and its gone banana's. The 61 million population you refer to need cars also. UK market was fed by fleet cars coming off at 6-9 months at bargain basement prices. Last year very little companies placed bulk orders the knock on effect is there are much less used cars around and the hungry consumer animal that is 61 million people need quality used cars and prices go up.

Sterling being weak at the end of last year/early this year meant manufacturers couldnt offer huge discounts to fleets so the whole thing has compounded. Car values rising in a recession? Strange but true and something we'll teach the trainees in many years time.

-Chris-

Yeah, a lot of fleets are extending their leases or hanging onto their cars for another year - it'll have a knock-on effect in the used car market for sure!

benj

Why buy a basic model here for more than you can import
a high spec model?

anewme

Yes, it is true there is a shortage of good second hand cars.

I sold my Yaris (07)about six weeks ago (to a Dealer), he collected it that day and two of my friends sold Golf's (07/08) the same week (also to Dealers)

All Dealers(different marques) relayed the same story.

gpjordanf1

What a crock this story is!!!!!!

Everybody on about how fleets aren't buying so that going to have an effect on joe public, sorry but it wont, car sales are down about 60% so theres still 40% of 09's out there.

The road to recovery is going to be slow, the fleets and hire companys and people who can afford it will be first back with a recovering economy, they will buy first along time before joe public comes back. There will still be oceans of second hand cars available, just like there is today.

And the UK is full of cars of every description, only problem is the dealers here who are buying in the uk to sell here are having to compete with a wised up public who are buying the cars direct from the uk and cutting them out.
My parents bought in the UK just last week and the choice was staggering, in fact you had more choice than buying new here!

Thats the real truth.

anewme

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

What a crock this story is!!!!!!

Everybody on about how fleets aren't buying so that going to have an effect on joe public, sorry but it wont, car sales are down about 60% so theres still 40% of 09's out there.

The road to recovery is going to be slow, the fleets and hire companys and people who can afford it will be first back with a recovering economy, they will buy first along time before joe public comes back. There will still be oceans of second hand cars available, just like there is today.

And the UK is full of cars of every description, only problem is the dealers here who are buying in the uk to sell here are having to compete with a wised up public who are buying the cars direct from the uk and cutting them out.
My parents bought in the UK just last week and the choice was staggering, in fact you had more choice than buying new here!

Thats the real truth.

No, you are actually incorrect. It is no crock. Happened to me first hand and I know of 4 people who sold their cars (including me) in the one week all to dealers of different marques. Cars were popular models which would turn over quite quickly and excellent condition. Dealers are actually short on good second hand cars.

Both new and used car prices have increased in the UK recently along with Stg. now strengthening against Euro. Glasses guide shows this, as another poster referenced.

If you had any real knowledge of the car trade, you might know that this is actually true.

Hopefully the turn has not come too late and might save a few people's jobs in the trade.

R.O.R

I work in a fleet company and we sell our own used stock from our garage / warehouse.

I haven't seen the place so empty in the last 18 months. I'm getting calls / e-mails from dealers I don't buy off asking for our stock list.

The traders coming in are telling us that the used prices in Ireland are now cheaper than bringing equivalent cars in from the UK.

The only things moving from dealers at the moment are used cars so they need decent stock to keep turnover moving. The margins dealers are taking on used cars have also come down.

Unfortunatley it's come too late for some dealers who've either closed or lost some very good staff.

gpjordanf1

anewme wrote: »

No, you are actually incorrect. It is no crock. Happened to me first hand and I know of 4 people who sold their cars (including me) in the one week all to dealers of different marques. Cars were popular models which would turn over quite quickly and excellent condition. Dealers are actually short on good second hand cars.

Both new and used car prices have increased in the UK recently along with Stg. now strengthening against Euro. Glasses guide shows this, as another poster referenced.

If you had any real knowledge of the car trade, you might know that this is actually true.

Hopefully the turn has not come too late and might save a few people's jobs in the trade.

R.O.R wrote: »

I work in a fleet company and we sell our own used stock from our garage / warehouse.

I haven't seen the place so empty in the last 18 months. I'm getting calls / e-mails from dealers I don't buy off asking for our stock list.

The traders coming in are telling us that the used prices in Ireland are now cheaper than bringing equivalent cars in from the UK.

The only things moving from dealers at the moment are used cars so they need decent stock to keep turnover moving. The margins dealers are taking on used cars have also come down.

Unfortunatley it's come too late for some dealers who've either closed or lost some very good staff.

Just after helping my parents bring in a BMW 5 M Sport from the UK, saving them nearly €20k so I'd say I've first hand experience with that subject. That was within the last 7 days.

6 months ago helped my brother bring in another BMW 5 saving him €10k

And around the same time I helped my sister bring in a Mini Cooper S saving €13k

So all in all thats a substancial saving in direct contradiction to the theme of the above.

Big Nasty

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Just after helping my parents bring in a BMW 5 M Sport from the UK, saving them nearly €20k so I'd say I've first hand experience with that subject. That was within the last 7 days.

6 months ago helped my brother bring in another BMW 5 saving him €10k

And around the same time I helped my sister bring in a Mini Cooper S saving €13k

So all in all thats a substancial saving in direct contradiction to the theme of the above.

That's all well and good at that level but unfortunately the majority of people cannot afford to buy stuff like this on straight deals and / or cannot get finance so all that is really moving right now is credit union money kinda stuff. Consequentially decent €4k - €8k stock is getting scarce.

-Chris-

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Just after helping my parents bring in a BMW 5 M Sport from the UK, saving them nearly €20k so I'd say I've first hand experience with that subject. That was within the last 7 days.

6 months ago helped my brother bring in another BMW 5 saving him €10k

And around the same time I helped my sister bring in a Mini Cooper S saving €13k

So all in all thats a substancial saving in direct contradiction to the theme of the above.

What's selling right now in numbers is stuff that costs €10-15k, 5Drs or saloon.
The cars you're picking aren't in shortage here really (especially due to the Sterling Collection).
Also, you're picking cars with the max savings - if someone wanted a 1.4 Golf or Focus they'd see much less of a saving from the UK and so are less likely to personally import. Because there are less imports of those cars, it's causing there to be more demand than supply for Irish cars.

gpjordanf1

-Chris- wrote: »

What's selling right now in numbers is stuff that costs €10-15k, 5Drs or saloon.
The cars you're picking aren't in shortage here really (especially due to the Sterling Collection).
Also, you're picking cars with the max savings - if someone wanted a 1.4 Golf or Focus they'd see much less of a saving from the UK and so are less likely to personally import. Because there are less imports of those cars, it's causing there to be more demand than supply for Irish cars.

Ok so throw out some figures for a 08 focus & golf? How much we talking?

-Chris-

You're the one telling us we're talking rubbish - how about you put together some numbers to prove us wrong?

gpjordanf1

-Chris- wrote: »

You're the one telling us we're talking rubbish - how about you put together some numbers to prove us wrong?

I already gave you numbers which you seemed to agree with? I haven't looked at the Golf / Focus segment, I was just asking for your side of the story?

Owen

There isn't a shortage of used cars per se, a quick glance at the first page of carzone will tell you that. There's a shortage of certain used cars though, and it's real. Why's it happening?

The Dealership I worked for had a hard time getting 07 520ds recently. An 08 was almost the same to import (Give or take a relatively small amount) with VRT based on the newer efficient dynamics engines, when compared to 07's. So the garage didn't import the 07's, and as a result now, could do with a few.

This is the type of talk the traders are putting out there. Unfortunately, because us Irish tend to generalise, instead of saying "07 good value 520d's are scare", they say "Cars are scarce", leading to this thread.

-Chris-

You already have our side of the story - everyone who's involved in the trade, or who's sold their car to the trade recently, has said there's a shortage of good used cars. You, DublinDilbert & Newbie1001 have come on saying that it's rubbish/impossible.

Your example of the 5-Series is well documented already in multiple threads (do a search for posts by LoveDucati2 - but please, for the love of Jesus, don't ressurect them ).

If you're going to come on and say that the general consensus is incorrect, you should be able to back up your point. If you're going to come on with "the real truth", you should have enough info that you can change our minds.

gpjordanf1

-Chris- wrote: »

You already have our side of the story - everyone who's involved in the trade, or who's sold their car to the trade recently, has said there's a shortage of good used cars. You, DublinDilbert & Newbie1001 have come on saying that it's rubbish/impossible.

Your example of the 5-Series is well documented already in multiple threads (do a search for posts by LoveDucati2 - but please, for the love of Jesus, don't ressurect them ).

If you're going to come on and say that the general consensus is incorrect, you should be able to back up your point. If you're going to come on with "the real truth", you should have enough info that you can change our minds.

I've given you my experiences over the last 6 months, these are the deals I've had hands on experience with.

You've said that the focus / golf segment is now on parity with UK imports, If thats the case then I retract my " Crock" statement because I probably generalised.
Well my figures anyway just for clarity are as follows

08 BMW 520D M Sport ( Fully Loaded) bought & cleared for €24,750 ( No travel expenses as a UK uncle is bringing it back with him) Similar specs here are listed at 40 - 45k

06 BMW 520D SE bought & cleared for €15k Similar here were listed at 22 - 26k at the time

06 Mini Cooper S (175 BHP) bought & cleared for €16k Only 2 available here at the time one was 29k and the other was 32k

Owen

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

06 Mini Cooper S (175 BHP) bought & cleared for €16k Only 2 available here at the time one was 29k and the other was 32k

The 06 Cooper S was 170Bhp, the 07 was 175Bhp. More interestingly, is that 08 Cooper S' are going for close to 20 at the moment. 13k saving?

VolvoMan

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The 06 Cooper S was 170Bhp, the 07 was 175Bhp. More interestingly, is that 08 Cooper S' are going for close to 20 at the moment. 13k saving?

I'd say a lot of those figures are exaggerated to be honest.:rolleyes:

In a few years time there will definitely be feck all supply of '09 cars on the market. I saw a brand new car the other day and couldn't believe how low the figures on the registration were. It was a 'D' reg at 20000 or thereabouts, a figure which the industry would've reached by February in recent years gone by.

R.O.R

VolvoMan wrote: »

In a few years time there will definitely be feck all supply of '09 cars on the market. I saw a brand new car the other day and couldn't believe how low the figures on the registration were. It was a 'D' reg at 20000 or thereabouts, a figure which the industry would've reached by February in recent years gone by.

I delivered a new car to a driver at the start of this month - reg was 20328. His 06 car coming back was 20327 - that was delivered on the 15th Feb 2006. Shows how far we are down on previous years (also quite a freaky coincidence :eek:)

robtri

R.O.R wrote: »

I delivered a new car to a driver at the start of this month - reg was 20328. His 06 car coming back was 20327 - that was delivered on the 15th Feb 2006. Shows how far we are down on previous years (also quite a freaky coincidence :eek:)

that is a freaky coincidence......

cpoh1

I bought a late 05 mini cooper convertible with 30k, full history, new roof, chilli pack with all the bells and whistles in ireland private for 10k cash for my sister.

There are buckets of mint used cars out there for absolutely nothing at the moment, i wouldnt believe for a second that there's a shortage of decetn used cars, esepecially bought privately.

slickmcvic

i go along with the arguement that there is a drop in the number of "quality" used cars out there( espeially smaller engined models).....in the good times lads were changin their motors every yr / 2 yrs....this meant there was almost an oversupply of trade-ins available and as a result the distributers were having a lot of "clearoff" sales events to make space on their forecourts....the change in tax brackets meant that a of high end motors sat and still sit on forecourts....however the demand for smaller engined models increased and the changed economic climate meant that a lot of people are goin for "nearly new" rather than "brand-spankin new" models.
when i was changin my motor in April there was 63,000 cars on carzone there's 48,662 today....thats a 23% drop supply and demands dictates this is goin to lead to higher car prices especially for smaller engined "nearly new "models....
.....I seen an ad in Fridays times from a big main dealer offering cash for any Audi,VW,mazdas (07+ i think)

cpoh1

This only applies to dealers who wont take a trade in of a nearly new car, the private car sales market is flourishing albeit with more reasonable and realistic prices out there these days.

Drummerboy08

R.O.R wrote: »

I work in a fleet company and we sell our own used stock from our garage / warehouse.

I haven't seen the place so empty in the last 18 months. I'm getting calls / e-mails from dealers I don't buy off asking for our stock list.

The traders coming in are telling us that the used prices in Ireland are now cheaper than bringing equivalent cars in from the UK.

The only things moving from dealers at the moment are used cars so they need decent stock to keep turnover moving. The margins dealers are taking on used cars have also come down.

Unfortunatley it's come too late for some dealers who've either closed or lost some very good staff.

Send em my way.....;)







Please....? :pac:

conor_mc

Anecdotally, I've been looking at Audi A6's in the last year.

Today, a 06 TDi with <60k miles would set you back £12k or almost €14k + VRT.

Last last year, you could've picked one up for close to £11k, or €11.5k + VRT.

I'm still kicking myself I didn't bite the bullet last year and just go for it - a €2,500 swing in price just down to exchange rate and a small rise in UK second-hand prices.

pinkbug

Anyone know or is selling a black Mini One or Cooper convertible 2006-2008 must have low mileage and have extras on it? It doesn't seem to be that cheap to bring one in from the UK anymore

galwaytt

Churchy wrote: »

If your refering to the fifteen year old Porsche's in your sig , its hardly the same as 06/07/08 "retail" ready family cars.

no, not my sig cars - the SO's 06 'happy family' diesel estate, actually.......

gpjordanf1

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The 06 Cooper S was 170Bhp, the 07 was 175Bhp. More interestingly, is that 08 Cooper S' are going for close to 20 at the moment. 13k saving?

Yeah thats true, its defo 175 bhp but was first registered 12/06, was launched late 2006 to present.
Yeah prices are dropping like stones, luckily we bought in the UK.
As i said there were only 2 cars with same spec here at the time which was january 09 and they were looking for mental money, private sales though, so i know they were dreaming. i just gave you the difference between their asking and our actual price.

sk8board

just to add a consumer opinion to this, I'm curently looking to get a commuter diesel, probably an '08 for obvious reasons.
I've been looking for about 2 months in earnest.

some points:
2 months ago there was 73k cars listed on CZ. Today theres 65k. Not sure of its significance

'08 subaru legacy diesels are non-existant. zero on Carzone

'08 Alfa GT's seem to be very good value in ireland, and a Blackline spec is only about 2k dearer in Dublin that the cheapest in the UK, albeit theres much more choice in the UK
Prices in the UK for '08 diesels have certainly increased in list price in the past two months (have been tracking a few in particular.)

I definitely think that the fact we've only sold 42k cars so far this year (compared to 138k at this stage in '07) will impact on those who buy 2nd hand in a few years time. It has to.
Incidently there were 30k imports Jan-Jun in 07, 08 and 09. No increase whatsover (but no decrease too of course).

The UK has great choice, but its hard to find VALUE in '08 diesels in the €18-24k bracket. As someone else said, its not that much difference pricewise anymore.
Plus,when it comes to selling the car in 3-5 years time, it will be a UK import, and whatever you say it will attrach a lower price. If its cheaper to buy now, it'll be cheaper to sell further down the line.

Where I do see value is in the premium family estates; A6, V70, 5-series. You can save about 25% still on an '08, with A6 and v70 2.0L diesels listing for about £17k, 5-series touring for about 23k+. Cheapest '08 Touring on CZ is €39k.

Definitely the Irish dealers are coming down in price, and the market is not as UK-focussed as it was a the start of the year.
Have even had a volvo dealer tell me he'd bring over the V70 spec I wanted for what I consider a price that barely makes it worth his while.

Big Nasty

sk8board wrote: »

2 months ago there was 73k cars listed on CZ. Today theres 65k. Not sure of its significance

Today there's only 48,457 cars on Carzone! Click the 'Show Cars' button and you will see the bluffers 'real' figure!

lifer_sean

All involved in the motor trade who contribute here are in agreement that used cars are scarce. Why can't people believe this and accept that those in the trade know what they are talking about ? Why does there always have to be a conspiracy theory ?

Fact 1 - UK prices are now higher than end 08, and cars are almost a year older, so UK is dead as a source for most mainstream cars.

Fact 2 - (per earlier poster) the number of cars on Carzone (and let's face it, almost all car dealers have their cars on Carzone) is down from 63k odd to 48k odd - approx 25% off.

Fact 3 - Wholesale prices (eg auction prices) have been increasing steadily since the spring.

Quality used cars at sensible prices are DEFINITELY scarce. Of course there are dealers out there with yards full of cars at mad prices that are ignoring the market adjustment in prices, but they will never sell the cars at those prices so the cars might as well not exist.

rco2000

May also be partly down to people's frustration with Carzone which has not improved?
Wonder are the other big websites suffering similarly?

rco2000

lifer_sean wrote: »

All involved in the motor trade who contribute here are in agreement that used cars are scarce. Why can't people believe this and accept that those in the trade know what they are talking about ? Why does there always have to be a conspiracy theory ?

Because alot of people don't trust people in the motor trade especially after the way many of them conducted their business during the "Tiger years"

Big Nasty

rco2000 wrote: »

May also be partly down to people's frustration with Carzone which has not improved?
Wonder are the other big websites suffering similarly?

Every company related to the motor trade is suffering but it's a perfect opportunity to fight back against Carzone's dominance and rip-off to all sellers, private and dealers alike.

New MSN cars site was launched recently (cbg stock), I like the layout and colour scheme.

http://cars.ie.msn.com/

Churchy

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Yeah thats true, its defo 175 bhp but was first registered 12/06, was launched late 2006 to present.
Yeah prices are dropping like stones, luckily we bought in the UK.
As i said there were only 2 cars with same spec here at the time which was january 09 and they were looking for mental money, private sales though, so i know they were dreaming. i just gave you the difference between their asking and our actual price.

GPJordan - your first post in this topic told us all what a crock this story was.
Now the example you've given us is 6 months old.
Prices have risen every month from then - in fact Dec/Jan were one of the cheapest times ever for customers South of the border to buy cars.
I'm giving at least £1k STG more for decent 08 cars today than I was in Dec.
£1k is the smallest increase - can be up to £2.5k in the case of 7 seater's with a bit of spec.

Dazzler88

BigZack wrote: »

I met with a dealer recently who said that sourcing decent used cars in Ireland is becoming harder and harder. With new car sales down, he said that the lack of trade-ins

there probably will be a major decline in trades-in but its about time these dealers got hit in the pocket.When thing were going well in this country you could bring in a car that you bought the previous year for 10,000euro and they would offer you 6,000euro but the same car would be on the forecourt for sale a week later for 8,000 euro.Their is plenty of used cars out there,its just most are now for sale by private treaty.This has it owns risk.

Saab Ed

Dazzler88 wrote: »

there probably will be a major decline in trades-in but its about time these dealers got hit in the pocket.When thing were going well in this country you could bring in a car that you bought the previous year for 10,000euro and they would offer you 6,000euro but the same car would be on the forecourt for sale a week later for 8,000 euro.Their is plenty of used cars out there,its just most are now for sale by private treaty.This has it owns risk.

Look I know you are not in the trade so when you see numbers like that you're shocked but its not so straight forward as that. If you are offered a car for 8 grand on the forecourt but allowed a trade in of 6 the week before there are alot of differences in the same car at each point. When you are buying a car it will be serviced , valeted, on a bigger mileage car the timing belt will be done and it will come with a warranty. If you want to do all of this for the dealer then you'll get a better trade in . After that the dealer needs to make a profit. profit being the same reason everybody gets up in the morning and goes to work, for a few bob . And before that profit is made the dealer has to pay rent, rates , wages, insurance and VAT nevermind how much its costs just to keep 50 used cars in stock. So how much of a mark up on that 6 grand do think is left now for thoses dealers you think should be hit in the pocket? In the boom days some people in all trades made huge money but like most people ordinary motor traders had to go with the flow and pay the inflated prices for everything out there at the time too.