Ireland - Still A Backward Country?

TheInquisitor

Jakkass wrote: »

Another fallacy. A child cannot survive without it's mother outside of the womb either. Should we promote infanticide?



I personally think the appearance of the biological structure is irrelevant. Whether from the first to the last week, they are about equivalent. All it is that one is less developed than the other. If we applied this reasoning to our society we'd have chaos. Why can't we kill toddlers, they aren't human, they are less developed than us? Seriously, this thinking is utterly dangerous.



I support the current Irish legal definition. If it seriously endangered the life of the mother the only reasonable pro-life view is to save as many lives as possible. If two will die otherwise, it is best to save one. In any other case I am totally in disagreement.

Thats not what im saying at all. Of course a child can survive outside the womb and without a mother. It can be supported by others. Taking me promoting infanticide from what i said is completely ridiculous and baseless.

A woman who was raped should be allowed to choose without a shadow of a doubt.

Purple Gorilla

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Because if it cannot survive without being inside its mother it is not a child

I agree it is human life but it doesn't feel, it doesn't think. A growing clump of cells is still a clump of cells. Until like 7 months in when it can survive an early birth it doesn't have any rights as far as im concerned.

Would you support an abortion is the woman was raped and impregnated or if it seriously endangered the life of the mother?

You do realise that you are also a clump of cells?

Purple Gorilla

el_weirdo wrote: »

Germany can't be that bad if you have that sort of money to throw around on opinions...:pac:

We'll set up a task force to counter his argument

philologos

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Thats not what im saying at all. Of course a child can survive outside the womb and without a mother. It can be supported by others. Taking me promoting infanticide from what i said is completely ridiculous and baseless.

I didn't say you promoted infanticide. However, you missed my point. A child is dependant on someone for a lot of their lives. Why can't we kill a child if it is dependant on us and if we don't want it to be dependant on us? The reasoning for abortion because of this is the same pretty much as the reasoning for infanticide due to this reason.

TheInquisitor wrote: »

A woman who was raped should be allowed to choose without a shadow of a doubt.

I'm not with you on this one. The unborn child has done nothing wrong and does not deserve to die.

thelordofcheese

AlexderFranke wrote: »

I think allowing (hard) pornography, same gender marriages, abortion, rude blasphemy and banning schools run by the church are a sign of decadency rather than progres.

And i think you're so wrong, you may never be right about anything ever again.

pisslips

asdasd wrote: »

I suppose the idea is that if we are not to restrict marriage to men and women - moving away from traditions based on ideas of culture or religion - then we could end up with bestiality. This is a slippery slope argument, which are generally bad arguments.

On the other hand the movement away from traditional marriages could easily lead to polygamy. In fact it is hard to see the argument against polygamy ( which is worldwide, and historically more common than homosexual marriages) unless the argument is cultural - that is: we dont do that kind of thing round here.

The counter argument is that we didn't do homosexual marriages round here until recently. Therfore the argument that homosecual marriages could lead to polygamy is valid, since we have moved away from the idea that marriage is between a man and a woman, it makes sense to take that to a logical conclusion.

In the case of besitality, there are other counter arguments - the lack of personhood we grant to the animal for instance, and presumed lack of consent. Peter Singer argues for bestiality, but he sees animals as persons.

Are you not also using a slippery slope argument regarding polygamy. Anyway it's still a valid comparison.
And perhaps you could argue consent with an animal but not with incest for example.
For me it is not so much a slippery slope argument, moreso I'm calling incest and homosexuality morally equal. And if one is allowed then the other should be.

Also, my point still stands regarding the purpose of marriage in society. There is no reason that homosexuals should get married but it's fair enough if we allow civil partnerships for economic benifit.

asdasd

Are you not also using a slippery slope argument regarding polygamy. Anyway it's still a valid comparison.

Not really. Slippery slope arguments fail on some barrier to the slope - i.e. we dont see animals are persons in the case of bestiality. I dont see the barrier for polygamy.

MikeC101

asdasd wrote: »

Not really. Slippery slope arguments fail on some barrier to the slope - i.e. we dont see animals are persons in the case of bestiality. I dont see the barrier for polygamy.

One of the biggest barriers I'd see would be the need for a lot of new legislation regarding taxation / benefits and so on for polygamous unions, along with the possible need for constitutional reform, custody issues for children in case of the union breaking up and so on.

Dudess

JupiterKid wrote: »

We all know that Ireland, once one of the most socially backward countries in the world, has approached the social mores of its Western European neighbours over the past 30 or so years with the decriminalisation of contraception, divorce and gay sex (decades after most other developed countries).

However, there are still things where Ireland has quite a long, long way to go before it can even dream to call itself modern.

Let's see...

• Abortion still illegal
• Pornography still illegal
• Same sex civil unions or any official regognition of same sex relationships illegal
• Blasphemy law introduced
• Debtors still sent to prison
• Most schools still controlled by religious orders
• Grossly underfunded mental health care
• No State provided childcare facilities

Get the picture? Ireland is still a pretty backward country in my opinion.:( Let's not kid ourselves and pretend that our farting about during the bubble years made us anything special. To many of our European cousins were are still a small minded and backward little island.:mad:

Not disputing how unappetising all of the above is, but I can't stand this "we" business. I'm not backwards or narrowminded and I won't put up with being told I am, or that I have to be held partially accountable for the issues you've listed - just because I happen to have been born in this country. Blame policymakers - those of us who have no tolerance for the above can hardly be blamed.

And "banana republic"? How the hell is Ireland a banana republic? I wasn't aware we lived in a dictatorship.

galwayrush

FFS we're so advanced . we all got iodine tablets of the government a few years back, and they are now only a few years out of date.:pac:

Fad

galwayrush wrote: »

FFS we're so advanced . we all got iodine tablets of the government a few years back, and they are now only a few years out of date.:pac:

And there's that issue that they wouldnt actually have ANY effect for a huge proportion of the population.

galwayrush

Fad wrote: »

And there's that issue that they wouldnt actually have ANY effect for a huge proportion of the population.

It would be nice if all FF's decisions were equally harmless.:rolleyes:

Kev_ps3

I suggest the OP move to 90% of the other countrys in the world and see how 'backward' we are. We are a very liberal country imo.

Cjoe

JupiterKid wrote: »

We all know that Ireland, once one of the most socially backward countries in the world, has approached the social mores of its Western European neighbours over the past 30 or so years with the decriminalisation of contraception, divorce and gay sex (decades after most other developed countries).

However, there are still things where Ireland has quite a long, long way to go before it can even dream to call itself modern.

Let's see...

• Abortion still illegal
• Pornography still illegal
• Same sex civil unions or any official regognition of same sex relationships illegal
• Blasphemy law introduced
• Debtors still sent to prison
• Most schools still controlled by religious orders
• Grossly underfunded mental health care
• No State provided childcare facilities

Get the picture? Ireland is still a pretty backward country in my opinion.:( Let's not kid ourselves and pretend that our farting about during the bubble years made us anything special. To many of our European cousins were are still a small minded and backward little island.:mad:

Listen no country is perfect. I doubt you know the ins and outs of every other countries laws. An as previously said there the laws might be a bit backward in some cases but in general the people arent.

Abortion is something I personally could not say should or shouldnt be fully legal. Id say the majority of the country would be like that. Its a grey area when it comes to making an exact decsion. That would be the main reason for it no being fully legal.

Porn - I dont think it makes a bit of difference if it was legal or not and it doesnt make the country backward because it is illegal. We would be backward if we were throwing people in jail for it but we are not.

Same sex Civil Unions - Its now in place. Homosexuals are recognised by the state as partners and share the same rights as married hetrosexual couple. Apart from the adoption issue there is no other major issue for homosexuals in Ireland. And the adoption issue is not as black and white as most people have been saying latley ever since your one Brenda Power came out with her article and radio discussion.

Blasphemy - Every ccountry has their silly laws this is one havent heard of anyone get in trouble with it though.

Debtors - Should go to jail if you owe money simple as.

Religously controlled schools - Its what alot of people want. But the choice is there, just maybe not out in the country as much. Although most people in the country would like their child to go to a religous school in my opinion.

Mental Health - Plenty of money (THERE WAS ANYWAY) just desperate managment. Like all health care it seems.

State funded child care facilities -Alot of child care facilities are subsidised by the state.

Honestly the country is far from perfect, but it is far from backward either. None of your points point towards this. You remind me of the irish people I met travelling (in Oz more so) who told me how crap Ireland was without giving me a valid reason and who always added how it always rains here. Give it a rest lads.

thelordofcheese

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

I suggest the OP move to 90% of the other countrys in the world and see how 'backward' we are. We are a very liberal country imo.

yes, but to you liberal is anything to the left of genghis Khan.

galwayrush

Cjoe wrote: »

Debtors - Should go to jail if you owe money simple as.

.

Even if the person has lost their job?, has a serious illness? Can't pay their debts because someone else won't pay them?
Quite a few people have committed suicide because of debt and the fear of prison.

asdasd

Cant people declare bankruptcy in Ireland? Or are we confusing debtors prisons with non-payment of fines?

ChocolateSauce

I wouldn't say backwards....sideways, yes, but not backwards. Although we have certainly been regressing after a peak of 2001 IMO.

thomasmi

and ,how would any heart care

Whiskey Devil

JupiterKid wrote: »

We all know that Ireland, once one of the most socially backward countries in the world, has approached the social mores of its Western European neighbours over the past 30 or so years with the decriminalisation of contraception, divorce and gay sex (decades after most other developed countries).

However, there are still things where Ireland has quite a long, long way to go before it can even dream to call itself modern.

Let's see...

• Abortion still illegal
• Pornography still illegal
• Same sex civil unions or any official regognition of same sex relationships illegal
• Blasphemy law introduced
• Debtors still sent to prison
• Most schools still controlled by religious orders
• Grossly underfunded mental health care
• No State provided childcare facilities

Get the picture? Ireland is still a pretty backward country in my opinion.:( Let's not kid ourselves and pretend that our farting about during the bubble years made us anything special. To many of our European cousins were are still a small minded and backward little island.:mad:

Abortion should never be legalised in this country.
Pornography is technically illegal, nothing more.
Same sex unions/marraige should be legalised, but gay couples should never ever be allowed to raise children. EVER.
Blasphemy law is not even worth discussing. :pac:
Most schools are not under the control of religious orders.
Mental healthcare is an issue that really needs to be addressed.
No state provided child care... so?

We're doing alright I think..

asdasd

asdasd wrote: »

Cant people declare bankruptcy in Ireland? Or are we confusing debtors prisons with non-payment of fines?

Ireland is just about the worst place to be bankrupt!
You lose almost everything, and have no financial rights for about 12 years.

asdasd

You lose almost everything, and have no financial rights for about 12 years.

Fair enough, that is backward then.

Cjoe

galwayrush wrote: »

Even if the person has lost their job?, has a serious illness? Can't pay their debts because someone else won't pay them?
Quite a few people have committed suicide because of debt and the fear of prison.

When I say people with debts I dont mean a standard mortagage but big developers. I know about the developer in galway i think it was who killed himself. Thats shocking no doubt about it. But it shouldnt deter the law from pressing charges on these people. Thay ruin peoples fortunes and lives time and again.

galwayrush

Cjoe wrote: »

When I say people with debts I dont mean a standard mortagage but big developers. I know about the developer in galway i think it was who killed himself. Thats shocking no doubt about it. But it shouldnt deter the law from pressing charges on these people. Thay ruin peoples fortunes and lives time and again.

Actually, i agree with you there, it always seems like prison isjust for regular joe soaps.but the big guys seem to be able to manipulate things and avoid the consequences of their greed and actions. Looks like some of them are finally being taken to task now.

mcwhirter

Holy Stump devotees, Ireland backward?, no way!!

Dudess

Whiskey Devil wrote: »

Abortion should never be legalised in this country.
Pornography is technically illegal, nothing more.
Same sex unions/marraige should be legalised, but gay couples should never ever be allowed to raise children. EVER.
Blasphemy law is not even worth discussing. :pac:
Most schools are not under the control of religious orders.
Mental healthcare is an issue that really needs to be addressed.
No state provided child care... so?

We're doing alright I think..

... in your opinion, which isn't the final word on how things should be. Just because you don't believe abortion should be legalised, and gay couples should never raise children, doesn't mean you're right. Also, I thought the discussion was on how backward Ireland is, not whether it's "doing all right".

tedstriker

I wouldn't say backward but I would say that we are ruled by a era of very uneducated people and as a result we are constantly being led down the wrong direction. It is changing slowly as the old bastards die off and leave politics and younger people come through. We are getting better and have plenty of positives. Every country, though, has morons and people who don't accept anything other than old fashioned stupidness.

We also seem to be happiest when we are doing badly. We don't like success. Look at how we have gotten less miserable over the last year or so:
http://www.statusireland.com/statistics/recentlychanged/40/Misery-Index-for-Ireland.html

If you want backward then go to russia or some former soviet places... they're way behind the times.

galwayrush

i don't think we're backward, we have lost our way though, seems like we have been guided by a blind government the past few years and they have got us lost in a deep dark forest, now the same blind people are convinced they are able to find their way out again............

Cjoe

We have only been making our own desicions for 80 odd years compared to alot of countries in europe so we are doing well although we can do alot better when it comes to general health service. Sure our politicians are of unbelievably poor judgement but at least our Island has in general great people with a loveable disposition.

As father dougal might say, We are a great bunch of lads really!

goldenbrown

part right op..but trying being gay in Poland....also our american friends will put someone in to the white house on the abortion issue alone, - such as bush, its a hot topic over there, ...

we need to have residences for our intellectually disabled citizens included in the state inspection programme....not least because of the Ryan and Leas cross reports

Sulmac

To look at each issue separately:

Abortion still illegal

This may change with the European Court of Human Rights case coming up, let's hope they can pave the way to legalising it for rape/health/incest/whatever other scenario at the very least, if not on demand until a certain date.

The only two other European countries with similar abortion laws are Malta and The Vatican.

Pornography still illegal

A technicality really, though a change in the law/IFCO rules would be welcomed. Plus, the internet REALLY undermines any attempts to ban it.

Same sex civil unions or any official regognition of same sex relationships illegal

The civil unions bill should [partially] solve this problem from the start of next year. However, I would prefer [and most people would, from polls] full same sex civil marriage with adoption/IVF rights. Labour (as well as Sinn Féin, and the Green Party before they got into power) seem dedicated to this, and chances are it'd have to be part of any coalition deal for them to form a government, which is very likely after the next election. Too bad the Greens sacrificed more of their principles and settled for a halfway house.

As mentioned before, only some European countries have same sex marriage, although many do have civil unions.

Blasphemy law introduced

Like porn being "illegal", it isn't/won't be enforced. Plus, McAleese might get the Supreme Court to declare it null and void (they did already in 1999), so there's still hope. Also, many other European countries still have blasphemy laws - and like us don't enforce it.

Debtors still sent to prison

Declared unconstitutional by the High Court just last month. However, the government is preparing legislation to allow debtors who refuse to pay off their debts be jailed if they actually do have the money.

Most schools still controlled by religious orders

Technically yes, but in reality the church has little influence nowadays (except in pissing away time on preparation for the likes of communion/confirmation, which is a complete joke). Plus, this will most likely change following the creation of a National Forum on School Patronage by the government. Again, Labour seem adamant about change and would probably want this as part of any coalition deal. Even the damn church itself wants major change, just listen to the Archbishop of Dublin. I myself would prefer all public services (health and education) to be secular and controlled at a local level.

Churches have (varying levels of) influence in education in many other countries too.

Grossly underfunded mental health care

Well this is just shameful and needs to be changed immediately - especially the way minors are treated.

No State provided childcare facilities

Although most people (myself included) would prefer otherwise, it is important to remember that many other countries don't have the likes of child benefit, especially one as generous as our own. This is meant to help pay for childcare among other things - though in reality is a mere contribution.

Yes we have work to do to become more progressive. I think most people are ready for it already, but government ambivalence means at the moment we have little chance of anything actually happening quickly. But remember, we have come a long way in twenty years in regards to contraception, divorce, gay rights and even abortion laws.

Ireland is also ahead of many other countries when it comes to things such as the plastic bag tax, the smoking ban (and the tobacco advertising ban this month, first in the EU), and the banning of "old style" lightbulbs. In these cases, other countries have followed our lead. So cheer up, it's not all bad! :pac:

The_Minister

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]Abortion still illegal

Except it isn't really. You can head over to Englandfor €40 flight (if you get lucky), or a ferry for €60 (just checked).
Someone said on Boards recently that if Britain wasn't an hour away we would have legalised abortion a long time ago, and tbh it's true.
Even if abortion was legal, it would be cheaper to go to England for an abortion than get a train from down the country. Plus, due to higher doctors wages, the procedure would cost more.
Abortion is effectively legal in Ireland.

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]Pornography still illegal

Nope. Unrated DVDs are illegal. Burn a DVD of porn off the internet and wave it at a Garda, and they can't take it.
Porn is legal in Ireland (except kiddie porn obviously).

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]Same sex civil unions or any official regognition of same sex relationships illegal

This is being brought in right now.

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]Blasphemy law introduced

Has been there for decades, and never used.
Miles better then Holocaust Denial legislation.

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]Debtors still sent to prison

Not quite AFAIK. Judges, if they believe a person can pay, will make an order to pay.
I that order is not complied with, then they go to jail.
They go to jail normally for breaking the order, not for failing to repay a debt.

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]Most schools still controlled by religious orders

Religious denominations running schools is common throughout the world, including the developed world.
There is nothing inherantly seedy in it, so long as they are run well and comply with the standards set.

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]Grossly underfunded mental health care

Whatdoyouwant?
People care more about physical health then mental. Thats where the money goes.
Mental health got lots of money in the boom and very little really approved.
The reason is that you can cure most physical illnesses in a short amount of time, whereas mental treatment takes ages, and rarely results in a 'cure'.
Very little return is made on the money spent.

JupiterKid wrote: »

[*]No State provided childcare facilities

:rolleyes: Parents of children are given money to pay for childcare. It doesn't cover all the cost but it comes close.

el_weirdo wrote: »

And that makes us "forward" then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8150616.stm
I think we do better than most.

netwhizkid wrote: »

I think I was only on the lgb forum once and generally have little to do with homosexuals as there is a "guilty* by association" culture attached in our society.

I've posted there many times, and AFAIK, no-one thinks I'm gay.

Aard wrote: »

Am I the only one who is stumped when people bring up the "well if we allow gay marriage, why not bestiality?" argument? I mean, just, wtf.

The argument is normally for incest and polygamy, both of which are hard to justify banning once gay marriage is accepted.
However, I recall seeeing a documentary on bestiality on either Channel4 or More 4. There was a man who regularly had sex with a donkey. He argued that she consented, and she was so large that she could have crushed him if she objected.

Aard wrote: »

I believe that before funding changes, society's attitudes need to change and realise that people with mental illnesses are not black sheep who should be left and forgotten about.

I know this isn't a tolerant thing to say, but I hate when someone who is obviously crazy is on the bus with me, ranting and staring.

thelordofcheese wrote: »

yes, but to you liberal is anything to the left of genghis Khan.

Genghis Khan was neither left nor right, but if he was anything he was left.




Look lads, don't get me wrong.
I support prostitution, euthanasia etc. I'm damn liberal (check the sig.)
I just don't think Ireland is as big a ****hole as some of you think.

Aard

The_Minister wrote: »

I know this isn't a tolerant thing to say, but I hate when someone who is obviously crazy is on the bus with me, ranting and staring.

Depending on the mood I'm in, that sort of thing pisses me off too. What I'm talking about are things like depression: there is virtually no information given out about it to parents and teachers. When a teenager is depressed, they're just told things to the effect of, "Just buck yourself up." I'm speaking from experience on this. If somebody is on medication, or has to be hospitalised, the family rarely say, "Oh, he's just fighting a bout of depression." They're more likely to say, "He's got the flu." Again, from experience. I don't know the answer, but I do know that if social attitudes don't change, then a lot MORE people will end up with mental problems.

The Aussie

galwayrush wrote: »

So FF were lying all along when they constantly told us we were the envy of Europe.:eek:

Um, yes.

Backwards, slightly.

Slow on the uptake that your not as "Mighty/Grand" as you once thaught.

Dudess

Um... I never thought I was "mighty/grand" (Isn't it incredible?! Different members of a particular nationality can have differing points of view to each other!) but cheers for the condescension anyway.

diverdriver

This country is backward. For a while I thought with the Celtic Tiger and all that we we were progressing but it was all a big con. Anywhere you care to look we are behind any comparable country in Europe and even some third world countries.

Another example, look at our roads, name two cities linked entirely by motorway? Unless you call Athlone a proper city, then it's none. This is the 21st century for crying out loud and we haven't even got the kind of infrastructure others had in the 1960s. Meanwhile off the motorways you can lose fillings from your teeth with the state of the roads. Why do we have difficulty with road making?

What have we got to show for all the years of the so called Celtic Tiger? Well massive unemployment and debt, a bloated inefficient and incompetent public service and a government so corrupt and full of itself that it doesn't even understand they caused much of it.

The one thing that saved this country from falling into revolution for many years was the safety valve of emigration. Without it we would be a seething mass of discontent. I wonder now about the new unemployed and what they will think. Emigration is no longer the option it once was and the new generation of unemployed might actually believe that emigration is the last resort because unlike the last generation who grew up knowing that emigration wasn't a lifestyle choice but a neccessity. Whole classes would graduate from college and go to England at one stage. Does anyone thing the current generation will put up with that as an idea?

I have come to believe that when the rest of the world drags itself out of this recession, we will be left behind because quite simply there was no substance to our boom. We can't build ourselves out of this one. On top of that manufacturing is dying out because we priced ourselves out of the market. We're screwed and there is going to be big trouble ahead as a whole generation brought up to believe they would always have money and a job, realises that there are no jobs.

The clock has been reset, not to the eighties but to the thirties. But this the time the British won't be taking our young people though. I could easily see fascism taking hold here.

diverdriver

Minister you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Parents of children are given money to pay for childcare. It doesn't cover all the cost but it comes close.

As a parent I tell you it doesn't even come close. Not by any stretch of the imagination. In many cases it's simply cheaper to give up work than pay for childcare. For many on low incomes it's actually impossible to work without having a relative to mind your kids for free.

asdasd

Another example, look at our roads, name two cities linked entirely by motorway? Unless you call Athlone a proper city, then it's none. This is the 21st century for crying out loud and we haven't even got the kind of infrastructure others had in the 1960s. Meanwhile off the motorways you can lose fillings from your teeth with the state of the roads. Why do we have difficulty with road making?

We will have about 700Kms of completed motorway in about a year, and that is plent for an island this size. Anyway, off topic. we are talking social issues. Saudia Arabia has plenty of good roads but would fail the "progressive" test of the OP.

I have come to believe that when the rest of the world drags itself out of this recession, we will be left behind because quite simply there was no substance to our boom. We can't build ourselves out of this one. On top of that manufacturing is dying out because we priced ourselves out of the market. We're screwed and there is going to be big trouble ahead as a whole generation brought up to believe they would always have money and a job, realises that there are no jobs.

There was plenty of substance to our boom pre-2001, and that will continue. Manufacturing is dying out across the Western World with the possible exception of Germany. I think we are still fairly heavily industrial comparatively.

The clock has been reset, not to the eighties but to the thirties.

ROFL.

But this the time the British won't be taking our young people though. I could easily see fascism taking hold here.

Given that fascism never has taken hold here, and that the situation is not like the 30's, and there are few right wing groups in this country than any other country in Europe, I would think you wrong.

You are mostly off-topic anyway, but I felt the need to answer this kind of poor-mouth ****. That is what is like the 30's.

MikeC101

diverdriver wrote: »

Anywhere you care to look we are behind any comparable country in Europe and even some third world countries.

Specifically, what, and where? With regards to third world countries, which ones are we behind, and in what regard?

diverdriver wrote: »

I could easily see fascism taking hold here.

Won't happen - look to the recent MEP elections and see how we voted then.

I can't see Youth Defense marching their way to a glorious new theocratic state any time soon.

Perspective diverdriver, perspective.

Purple Gorilla

This is annoying me now..

We've been a first world country for f*cking 15 years and people expect us to be up there with France and Germany etc.! Rome wasn't built in a day etc.

galwayrush

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

This is annoying me now..

We've been a first world country for f*cking 15 years and people expect us to be up there with France and Germany etc.! Rome wasn't built in a day etc.

We seem to me more dismantling the place atm though.:rolleyes:

jaffa20

TheInquisitor wrote: »

These are things i hope don't change.

Homosexuals have enough rights. What do they bring to the table...nothing. Main reason for any mammel to be here is to have kids.

And the OP's point is proven.

Btw, gay people can actually reproduce. They just don't swing that way. The world is over populated as it is anyway :rolleyes:

GLaDOS

In terms of religiously controlled schools, I know there's been plenty of threads on the Athiesm and Agnostism forum about people who do not wish to baptise their children but are considering it due to the fact that Catholic schools can give preference to Catholic children.

Pretty backwards imo. I know there are secular schools, but these arn't always a reasonable option, due to distance etc.

Ickle Magoo

ScienceNerd wrote: »

In terms of religiously controlled schools, I know there's been plenty of threads on the Athiesm and Agnostism forum about people who do not wish to baptise their children but are considering it due to the fact that Catholic schools can give preference to Catholic children.

Pretty backwards imo. I know there are secular schools, but these arn't always a reasonable option, due to distance etc.

I agree.

There are 56 Educate Together schools, 26 of which are in the greater Dublin area - not much choice for the rest of the country. It's argued that parents can lobby for a local school but by the time you have kids and are thinking about schools, you lobby and try to get together funding, a building and staff - the child in question is almost past primary education age. It's a laborious process, never mind the issue of trying to get into schools if you have to move house.

The education system, the roads, the health system, the lack of modern infrastructure in general, the lagging behind in technological advancements, etc, etc. This from a country that had money thrown at it for years from the EU and claimed to have an economic "tiger" on the prowl - what's to show for it? Peanuts, certainly compared with where Ireland should be & what she should have. Unemployment, negative equity and a nice motor. Fab. :rolleyes:

I don't think Irish people are backwards at all, far from it in my experience - but ye should be a damn sight angrier at what your fellow voters & their choice of politicians have allowed to happen here.

mateo

TheInquisitor wrote: »

A very very small minority. Although i admit when i'm mistaken, yes bi-sexual people can indeed! Actually as a point of clarification i have yet to find any info on what % of a country / area are homosexual?

Where did i say they should have equal rights? Free speech is not equal rights. I couldn't give a sh1te what people say . Say whatever you want, call me whatever you want i don't care.

But why the f*ck do you care so much about gay people??

Capt'n Midnight

asdasd wrote: »

Cant people declare bankruptcy in Ireland?

only if you can afford the fees involved :rolleyes:

galwayrush

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

only if you can afford the fees involved :rolleyes:

I know someone who doesn't give a **** about going bankrupt, because he has nothing,well, no assets in his name, although his three kids under 16 and his wife own 14 houses and various other properties between them.:rolleyes:

galwayrush

galwayrush wrote: »

I know someone who doesn't give a **** about going bankrupt, because he has nothing,well, no assets in his name, although his three kids under 16 and his wife own 14 houses and various other properties between them.:rolleyes:

The sooner the law is amended to sort out that kind of paddywackery the better! :mad:

CAB anyone!

goldenbrown

blasphemy legislation, is only the tip of the iceberg....alarm bells rang for me when Mr. Cowen made a speech in offally on being selected as our leader of government by about 35 Irish citizens, that the 'real people' of Ireland were back in charge.......

plenty real people of Ireland will leave in disgust in the next 20 years....some of us will stay and fight it out by civil means, because in tough economic times we get hitlers, mussolinis, franco's and our own idea of local christianity that would cause Jesus of Nazerath reach for that whip he used in fury to drive gombeen men out of a temple which was not here for them to 'make a poun goin forward..' but was there for
everybody...
equally...
regardless of their personal view of right and wrong..

no passaran:)

mcwhirter

Sulmac wrote: »

Ireland is also ahead of many other countries when it comes to things such as the plastic bag tax, the smoking ban (and the tobacco advertising ban this month, first in the EU), and the banning of "old style" lightbulbs. In these cases, other countries have followed our lead. So cheer up, it's not all bad! :pac:

Ireland is leading with banning, but anything else?