How CIE/IE Can make savings: Your ideas.

Judgement Day

Ok - Time for some action instead of ranting. I am looking for your specific ideas of where CIE/IE can save money or increase revenue on the railways. I don't want suggestions about closing lines as they will be already under consideration from the An Bord Snip report. I will compile the sensible suggestions and forward same to Dick Fearn (CEO of IE) and Noel Dempsey and report back here. Any takers?

I'll start.

1. Reintroduce revamped a Fastrack parcels service with staff seriously incentivised to drum up business.

2. Remove the entirely underutilised 'Travel Centre' from the Glanmire Buffet in Cork Station and lease it to a private operator to run as a station buffet. Win/win - income from lease and major improvement for rail passengers.

3. Retain all remaining MkIII carriages and refurbish. Cancel some of the replacement railcars ordered.

4. Mothball any further withdrawn locos instead of scrapping. These could be hired to private freight operators should anybody dare put their foot in the water.

5. Axe excess management - PR department, railway heritage office, .....

6. Reduce size of rail timetable to a manageable size and include advertising.

7. Sell-off the computers (most never switched on!) from rural stations nationwide before they are obsolete. Probably too late!

8. Sell-off all IE company cars and buy no replacements.

9. Cancel all IE advertising - pending a rethink of objectives and cheaper marketing options.



Get the idea? I don't care how many ideas you put up I will collate them and forward them to the aforementioned worthies.


www.irishrailways.blogspot.com

Run_to_da_hills

Bring back the two or even four car Dart unit for night time and off peak. It is ridiculous watching empty 6 and 8 car Dart units after peak times travelling in both directions.

They operated 2 car sets for years without problems, they would then link them up again at the end of the nights shift ready for the next morning.

This would cut down on power, maintenance, cleaning and security.

dowlingm

Get the public onside with posters of graffitied trains, puke on bus seats, smashed shelters, vandalised booking offices, truck hitting a low bridge etc. with the tag line - your taxes will pay to fix that.

pebbles21

Reduce prices get more customers!

highlydebased

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Bring back the two or even four car Dart unit for night time and off peak. It is ridiculous watching empty 6 and 8 car Dart units after peak times travelling in both directions.

They operated 2 car sets for years without problems, they would then link them up again at the end of the nights shift ready for the next morning.

This would cut down on power, maintenance, cleaning and security.

+1 for this idea

ODS

A number of good ideas above that make sense, such as retaining MKs and moth-balling rather than scrapping engines.

Mine are probably somewhat more controversial, but I reckon given McCarthy's recommendation of cutting 240 km of lines, there is something much more fundamental than just tinkering and advocating efficiencies.

Railusers Ireland, and Platform 11 before them have made many sound suggestions over the years - and while I wouldn't agree with them on every stance - regrettably Irish Rail seemingly haven't listened to them at all when it doesn't already suit them.

In my opinion, and I would regard myself as politically left-of-centre and pro-rail, Irish Rail exists primarily for the wage-paying of its members - rather than providing services to the greater community, be it public or freight.

I have come to the conclusion that not only has Irish Rail had an exit-freight strategy, but now with the exception of Dublin Darts, they also would appear to have an exit-rail strategy.

Colm McCarthy's recommendations to close lines such as Rosslare - Waterford and Waterford - Limerick jcn regrettably make a lot of sense - precisely because Irish Rail run only one service each way each day to Rosslare, while the service to Limerick jcn is woefully under-marketed so that many of inhabitants of towns such as Clonmel (Pop. 15,000) are not even aware of their train services. 40 minutes wait before connecting to trains linking into Limerick at the jcn makes sure there is no interest.The recent kite flown by IE to axe signaling on the route and replace trains with a minibus-on-tracks is laughable as it is dangerous in that it indicates their anti-rail agenda. Note how there would still be staff needed and paid wages; it is very hard to escape the conclusion that essentially IE view the traveling public as an inconvenience.

The downgrading of ancillary services, such as good quality restaurants, shops, on-board catering, and bike-carrying capacity is also symptomatic of IE's exit-rail strategy. Fast track parcels axed, as well as An Post allowed to go some years ago, also seems part of this.

IE had between 3 - 5% of freight market 10 - 15 years ago; any haulage company would have given their eye teeth for this; yet IE decided to get out. Now that that's done they can get on with the rest of their exit-rail strategy :mad:

So what I propose for IE/ CIE to make savings is to shut them. Close them down. Get rid of them... And replace them. Hand Irish Rail over to a company such as Ryanair or what could be RyanRail™

Let's have a company that would chase up opportunities and look to provide services, as opposed to the subsidy subculture. For 10 years, Dell shifted over 10,000 computers a day from Limerick to Rosslare - and not once as far as I am aware did IE go looking for the business. Similarly the CEO of Foynes port in Limerick sought for years to be able to use the existing branch line - but "never, never, never" was the attitude of Irish Rail. Where was Irish Rail when the M3 was being proposed; certainly not advocating that the existing line from Dublin via Drogheda could be used for commuters. Instead Irish Rail much rather a car-dependent park-and-ride siding into Dunboyne; meanwhile the supposed future Navan route gets compromised by pipe-laying and also the bridge at Cannistown.

The bus-on-tracks kite that IE has recently proposed for Rosslare - Limerick jcn is not a new idea; Northern Ireland Railways used one 25 years ago on the Portrush line; why haven't IE previously floated such a notion before for other unused lines, such as New Ross or parts of the WRC? Because they weren't interested in generating business, simple as - and for me it is impossible to escape the idea that this is a way of starting the real closure of that line, making it incompatible with taking traffic from any other line. Happily for IE, this of course then undermines the potential viability for other lines.

And then of course there's the Phoenix Park tunnel line from Heuston Station, going through some of the most densely populated areas in the state. Six years ago, writing under the handle of CoCo, I posted a hoax press release on Irish Rail News, which seemed to spark off some debate regarding the line; jokingly I suggested that by a "Shock Discovery", Irish Rail had discovered another line they could close. A debate got going about it around the same time, and subsequently in an address to Dail Transport Committee, February 25th, 2004, Joe Maher, then CEO of Iarnród Éireann stated "We certainly intend to use the park tunnel in the short-term to bring trains from the Kildare/Newbridge area into Spencer Dock because there is demand for that." Five years on there is still no service, however happily IE run trains on the line - provided it isn't carrying passengers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvgt_02WQv4

Save Irish Railways by abolishing Irish Rail. Otherwise it'll continue to be death by 1000 cuts, with incrementally decreasing services until there's nothing at all. For too long the culture has been one that has rewarded stagnation and penalised innovation, where the traveling public and business has been an inconvenience for these people; Irish Rail as an organisation need to be relieved of any such further burden - I don't blame the individual workers themselves, but overall it is clear that it is now time to dismantle Irish Rail rather than any more Irish railways.

Such is the clear and realist implication of the Bord Snip report, suggesting 240km of the country's lines to be shut saving €55m, while all IE are interested in is spending €2000m+ in building 7.5km of new line, in many respects duplicating the Phoenix Park Tunnel/ north inner city lines.

No more pointless Booze Allen Hamilton type reports; hire up Michael O'Leary instead if he is willing and turn it over to a Ryanair-type operation.

Anything else at this stage is just tinkering with the edges of a monolithic Lemming-on-tracks that just isn't interested.

T Corolla

I agree with alot of the points that the subscribers. One thing that I think should be given more ground is Internet sales . Currently there are 10 euro's intercity fares nationwide on selected services which I think is excellent . I would like to see the introduction of Internet sales on commuter routes currently there are 10 euro's fares available on offpeak services to Dublin which had been a great help to these services. On a larger scale I would like to see the integration of local/commuter bus services inlign with the trains. I fail to see why there needs to be espically on the Sligo/Westport line a bus and train leaving from the one station at the same time. This is ridicious and should be aboilised before the introduction of the 22000 trains there was need for this now with eight intercity services to Sligo a day versus five only two years ago the volume of people has no increased to that extent. Also one last point sack Irish rail and hand it to someone who can run a business

Judgement Day

Thanks for that in depth analysis ODS - it is rare that I find my self in such complete agreement with another poster. I am of the opinion that CIE/IE have been in exit-rail mode for decades but mainly due to total incompetence rather than any deliberate strategy. I'm not convinced that Michael O'Leary is the man for the job but definitely somebody like him who won't put up with bolshie unions and incompetent management.

In the meantime, while we wait for deliverance please let me have a few revenue generating or saving suggestions for my letter to Dick Fearn and friends.

trad

Stop digging the big hole under Pearse Station (Interconnecter?)

T Corolla

trad wrote: »

Stop digging the big hole under Pearse Station (Interconnecter?)

The only was to survive is to put in the interconnector. The biggest problem Irish rail has apart from the management is the lack on connection pre luas days Hueston Station may as well been on an Island as to it location and 775 million was spent on the Luas and still this is limited in its destination path Only for Dublin Bus offering a prtty good service Hueston station might as well have closed. Why the largest station was left like this is beyond me. Any commuter lines under construstion at the moment will revive revenues for the company i.e Dunboyne and the Midelton line. The WRC has a question mark over it as to whether it will even break even let alone make a % return it is lifetime. One other thing that could be done to raise revenues for trains is to sell tickets on Dart/Commuter services at breakeven value to pull in customers and if this was sucessfull put 50c onto each ticket after a six month trial

fh041205

Judgement Day wrote: »

1. Reintroduce revamped a Fastrack parcels service with staff seriously incentivised to drum up business.

8. Sell-off all IE company cars and buy no replacements.

Just want to pick up on a few of your points Judgement.

1. I seriously don't think this would be possible. First of all the initial cost of reintroducing the services would be quite substantial I would imagine. Secondly, I doubt there is any line in the country atm that could compete with road services when it comes to packages.

8. Are there that many company cars? I wasn't aware of this at all. Could you elaborate a bit on that point.


Otherwise, some interesting ideas, most notably about keeping the mk3's.

Run_to_da_hills

fh041205 wrote: »

Otherwise, some interesting ideas, most notably about keeping the mk3's.

Speaking of coaches, I was reading an article published in todays Sunday Independant claiming that the new coaches have caused some complaints of rocking from side to side causing seasickness among some passengers. Not sure what coaches they were on about, the MK3's never had that problem.

Victor

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Speaking of coaches, I was reading an article published in todays Sunday Independant claiming that the new coaches have caused some complaints of rocking from side to side causing seasickness among some passengers. Not sure what coaches they were on about, the MK3's never had that problem.

Mark 4s - it seems this is part of the reason the curtains were removed.

kingshankly

fh041205 wrote: »

Just want to pick up on a few of your points Judgement.

1. I seriously don't think this would be possible. First of all the initial cost of reintroducing the services would be quite substantial I would imagine. Secondly, I doubt there is any line in the country atm that could compete with road services when it comes to packages.

8. Are there that many company cars? I wasn't aware of this at all. Could you elaborate a bit on that point.


Otherwise, some interesting ideas, most notably about keeping the mk3's.

most company cars are assigned to the infrastructure department where they are needed where people are constantly moving to different parts on a line.
for me the place to start would be with fare evaders of which there are plenty.and the amount of people who travel free on our railways is scandalous,i know people who get free travel who can well afford to pay, it seems for every paying passenger there is a non paying one

Oliver1985

1. Scrap the free travel for anyone under 65.
2. After peak shorthen Units to 2 or 4 cars!
3. Get rid of pricy contract cleaners cleaning and get staff to do it. Contrat companys can charge up to 30ruro per man per hour
4. Increase the no ticket fine to 100 euro
5. As already said cut back on new I.c.r units and rerub some Mark3s

parsi

An O'Leary type character won't run the railways unless he can get subsidies , sorry I mean "incentives" from each station to run trains. That's the way the airline runs.

Are there that many staff cars ? Is there any point in removing that cost only to replace it with the costs of getting a taxi out to open Longpavement gates or pay mileage ?

Crack down on fare-evaders and the gob****es using companion passes.

Make a decision - do we want a social type network that serves small places (if so then we have to accept the costs) or do we want a network that goes as close as possible to paying it's own way despite what the locosexuals think ?

Part of IE's problem is that their ultimate boss can't make up it's mind as to what type of system they want.

Judgement Day

parsi wrote: »

An O'Leary type character won't run the railways unless he can get subsidies , sorry I mean "incentives" from each station to run trains. That's the way the airline runs.

Are there that many staff cars ? Is there any point in removing that cost only to replace it with the costs of getting a taxi out to open Longpavement gates or pay mileage ?

Crack down on fare-evaders and the gob****es using companion passes.

Make a decision - do we want a social type network that serves small places (if so then we have to accept the costs) or do we want a network that goes as close as possible to paying it's own way despite what the locosexuals think ?

Part of IE's problem is that their ultimate boss can't make up it's mind as to what type of system they want.

An O'Leary type operator might well want subsidies for providing unprofitable services but I imagine that they would still be cheaper than the present set-up. The SLNCR (Sligo/Enniskillen) was a private rail operation until politically forced closure in 1957 and received payments from both NI and Republic's governments and ran a very tight ship.

The sort of staff cars that I have in mind for axing are those provided to people like the CIE Chairman John Lynch - I don't think he goes out opening LC gates but 'apparently' he has two staff cars available to him!

Of course crack down on fare evaders but I don't imagine there is a windfall to be had there.

The decision was made years ago that a social rail network was to be retained and it's now as small as can be without killing the remainder off altogether! The analogy with a tree is the best - if you hack off all the limbs you will kill the tree - we are at that point now. Freight was the leaves on the tree (now almost gone) and passenger services (other than Belfast/Dublin/Cork) the branches. While the decision on retaining a social network was taken, quite how a company like CIE was to do this was never established.

As for paying its own way, I refer again to the notorious McKinsey report of 1971...which stated that the heaviest losses occurred on the busiest routes therefore it is the Dublin/Cork, Dublin/Belfast and DART passenger services that should be axed. I assume that this has not changed since McKinsey reported.

kingshankly

Oliver1985 wrote: »

1. Scrap the free travel for anyone under 65.
2. After peak shorthen Units to 2 or 4 cars!
3. Get rid of pricy contract cleaners cleaning and get staff to do it. Contrat companys can charge up to 30ruro per man per hour
4. Increase the no ticket fine to 100 euro
5. As already said cut back on new I.c.r units and rerub some Mark3s

it's not that easy to reduce sets for off peak services as there is not that much place to store sets in such a place they are ready for peak services an example would be pearse where most evening trains start.
I for one don't think mark 3s are the answer as this IMO opinion would lead to more failures as your relying on one engine as oposed to 8 individual.
I know there not to everyones liking but railcars are the only way forward

markpb

Oliver1985 wrote: »

3. Get rid of pricy contract cleaners cleaning and get staff to do it. Contrat companys can charge up to 30ruro per man per hour

They're not always that expensive - I'm sure a tender from Irish Rail would get a more competitive quote. On the other hand, Irish Rail staff mean unions and DB pensions and silly regulations like "I'm not allowed to clean that type of train" or "I wan't more money for cleaning the newer/longer trains". With the state of the Irish Rail unions, I'm not surprised they're trying to outsource everything.

Judgement Day

fh041205 wrote: »

Just want to pick up on a few of your points Judgement.

1. I seriously don't think this would be possible. First of all the initial cost of reintroducing the services would be quite substantial I would imagine. Secondly, I doubt there is any line in the country atm that could compete with road services when it comes to packages.

8. Are there that many company cars? I wasn't aware of this at all. Could you elaborate a bit on that point.


Otherwise, some interesting ideas, most notably about keeping the mk3's.

1. Not wishing to be unduly critical and thank you for bothering to comment but you obviously don't understand the Fastrack service as previously operated. It was aimed at customers (including ordinary members of the public) without their own fleet of vans. Customer brought parcel to one of 100+ stations nationwide, parcel sent by next available train to destination station where it was either held for collection or delivered - depending on customers requrements. Simplicity in itself and despite being badly run managed to shift 800,000 packages annually from the last figures that I saw. I imagine if properly run a lot of private courier firms would be wiped out overnight and a lot less van movements would be clogging up our roads. Its reintroduction would be cheap and straightforward if done properly but to get CIE/IE to simply reintroduce it as before would indeed be a waste of time.


2. Company cars - a number of senior managers have/had company cars and I hope to get an exact idea of the current situation shortly. Watch this space.

Keep the ideas coming.

www.irishrailways.blogspot.com

L1011

Judgement Day wrote: »

As for paying its own way, I refer again to the notorious McKinsey report of 1971...which stated that the heaviest losses occurred on the busiest routes therefore it is the Dublin/Cork, Dublin/Belfast and DART passenger services that should be axed. I assume that this has not changed since McKinsey reported.

That was 38 yeas ago! Dub/Cork and Dub/Belfast were using antique rolling stock, Belfast took a lot longer to get to with border controls, and what is now the DART was AEC muck with significantly less dense developments along the route as it has now.

On the two IC routes there would also have been far less traffic to compete for than there is now. People from outside the Pale went shopping in Dublin once a year and might go up once more a year, for a GAA match (to oversimplify and patronise the entire country, but you get my point).

I don't think you can give any weight to *that* bit of McKinsey anymore.

Judgement Day

MYOB wrote: »

That was 38 yeas ago! Dub/Cork and Dub/Belfast were using antique rolling stock, Belfast took a lot longer to get to with border controls, and what is now the DART was AEC muck with significantly less dense developments along the route as it has now.

On the two IC routes there would also have been far less traffic to compete for than there is now. People from outside the Pale went shopping in Dublin once a year and might go up once more a year, for a GAA match (to oversimplify and patronise the entire country, but you get my point).

I don't think you can give any weight to *that* bit of McKinsey anymore.

It is my understanding that McKinsey was merely quoting popularly accepted universal rail statistics - not specifically about Ireland - that commuter services in particular lose heavily due to the need for large quantities of rolling stock which are only needed for two burst of activity daily. On this basis I'm sure the DART and other diesel commuter services are still the heavy loss makers. At least pre-DART the clapped out suburban stock was robbed every weekend to boost the size of inter-city trains - now there was value for money! I've always maintained that the only way the Cork/Cobh line will ever see DART type trains will be hauled behind a GM loco.

Inter-city much the same can be said - massive investment in track and equipment to provide an acceptable level of service. Whereas, the Nenagh branch - with poxy little 2 piece commuter railcar,fit only for parcels traffic and poorly maintained PW with consequent speed restrictions can't be costing too much?

Anyway we are off topic - how about some money saving/generating ideas? Please!

L1011

The point is that the Nenagh branch won't be costing too much to maintain, but is taking in close to zero. The DART, with its expensive catenary and expensive EMUs carries millions of fare paying people per annum during its two - lengthy - bursts of activity a day. One may cost a lot more but its likely making a profit.

These "popularly accepted universal rail statistics" only make sense in a situation where ALL lines are losing money.

Zebra3

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Bring back the two or even four car Dart unit for night time and off peak. It is ridiculous watching empty 6 and 8 car Dart units after peak times travelling in both directions.

They operated 2 car sets for years without problems, they would then link them up again at the end of the nights shift ready for the next morning.

This would cut down on power, maintenance, cleaning and security.

Same on Maynooth line.

Also using 8 cars during the day with hardly any passengers on board.

And they should make sure all trains on the Maynooth line inc. ICs stop at Drumcondra. So many people use this line to get to the airport and want to do so without the unnecessary hassle of going into the city centre.

kingshankly

i honestly think out sourcing has to stop for a lot of miscellaneous stuff ie people coming in to clean windows,paint etc when there are an abundance of depot men scratching themselves.
also irish rail have an annual taxi bill of several million pounds surely this can be curtailed.
bite the bullet as far as the docklands is concerned the only reason it is still open is the fact they spent so much money on it.
voluntary redundancies is also an option there are several people looking to get out and cant

Judgement Day

MYOB wrote: »

The point is that the Nenagh branch won't be costing too much to maintain, but is taking in close to zero. The DART, with its expensive catenary and expensive EMUs carries millions of fare paying people per annum during its two - lengthy - bursts of activity a day. One may cost a lot more but its likely making a profit.

These "popularly accepted universal rail statistics" only make sense in a situation where ALL lines are losing money.

Without wishing to continue off topic, I very much doubt whether the DART makes a profit - if it does it would be unique amongst heavy rail commuter systems anywhere. Still no suggestions for my letter?

Judgement Day

kingshankly wrote: »

i honestly think out sourcing has to stop for a lot of miscellaneous stuff ie people coming in to clean windows,paint etc when there are an abundance of depot men scratching themselves.
also irish rail have an annual taxi bill of several million pounds surely this can be curtailed.
bite the bullet as far as the docklands is concerned the only reason it is still open is the fact they spent so much money on it.
voluntary redundancies is also an option there are several people looking to get out and cant

You do have a point about outsourcing but it is generally done because it is perceived to be cheaper. CIE is coming from a background ,pre-nationalisation, where the railway prided itself on providing everything in house - especially at Inchicore Works - but now they can't even build a tea trolley up there.

markpb

Judgement Day wrote: »

It is my understanding that McKinsey was merely quoting popularly accepted universal rail statistics - not specifically about Ireland - that commuter services in particular lose heavily due to the need for large quantities of rolling stock which are only needed for two burst of activity daily.

Normally I'd agree with you but when I passed Luas SSG this evening at midnight, there were 30+ people waiting to board the tram. If the Dart was less crap during the day, it might get some passengers between peaks and make less of a loss.

Nostradamus

ODS wrote: »

Save Irish Railways by abolishing Irish Rail.

Superb post.

When P11 began I can recall this being the top of the agendas of P11 after the PPT and that was to create a situaiton were Irish Rail would have all their credibility undermined to the point were their actual existence would be unsustainable.

At the first meeting were P11 was formed I (and Derek Wheeler) got a lot of applause from the gathering regarding everything we said, until I mentioned that Irish Rail needed to be taken out. There was a wall of silence among the trainspotters in the room. Losing their black and orange locos was a price they could not pay. This got worse when I suggested and put up on a Powerpoint Presentation that IE were not only "the worse rail operators in Europe, but one of the worst in the world". Did not go down well at all. I was a mad bastard who went too far.

Looking at both WoT and IRN now, the penny seems to have finally dropped with them. But alas too late.

DWCommuter

Nostradamus wrote: »

Superb post.

When P11 began I can recall this being the top of the agendas of P11 after the PPT and that was to create a situaiton were Irish Rail would have all their credibility undermined to the point were their actual existence would be unsustainable.

At the first meeting were P11 was formed I (and Derek Wheeler) got a lot of applause from the gathering regarding everything we said, until I mentioned that Irish Rail needed to be taken out. There was a wall of silence among the trainspotters in the room. Losing their black and orange locos was a price they could not pay. This got worse when I suggested and put up on a Powerpoint Presentation that IE were not only "the worse rail operators in Europe, but one of the worst in the world". Did not go down well at all. I was a mad bastard who went too far.

Looking at both WoT and IRN now, the penny seems to have finally dropped with them. But alas too late.

How dare you mention my name. I had absolutely nothing to do with that mad bastard you tell of and his P11 spin machine.:D

In fairness Thomas is right, as is ODS. You cannot deal with CIE/IE in a mutually respectful fashion. Engaging with them by letter or cosy monthly meetings will achieve nothing. They will always display this hidden distain for you. Its over 50 years of culture, much like a fungus. It was always the P11 intention to go for them like a rabid dog and that worked. An unrelenting media and public attack that chronicles their failures and exposes their unforgiveable shortcomings is and will always be the only effective method to ensuring that they are eventually dumped on the scrapheap.

Sorry Judgement, your letter to Dick Fearn will have no impact. I know you've been around a long time, but the original P11 approach is the most effective. Look at the impact it had in the space of just 2 years. Nail them in the media week after week and not about technical ****. Hit them with the issues that ordinary passengers can relate to. The sad thing is the country is still in dire need of a rail lobby with balls. The existing one got castrated.

MOH

kingshankly wrote: »

i honestly think out sourcing has to stop for a lot of miscellaneous stuff ie people coming in to clean windows,paint etc when there are an abundance of depot men scratching themselves.
also irish rail have an annual taxi bill of several million pounds surely this can be curtailed.
bite the bullet as far as the docklands is concerned the only reason it is still open is the fact they spent so much money on it.
voluntary redundancies is also an option there are several people looking to get out and cant

There's a guy on the DART every morning collecting Metros off seats. He generally arrives into my carriage as the DART reaches Blackrock. As I get off, a second guy gets on to do the same job.
Occasionally if i get a different DART, I'll see one of them jumping off at Blackrock and running off somewhere with the bags.

So you've got at least two guys and probably more, and may the same heading the other direction, running around various stations with plastic bags full of papers.

A more logical solution would be to pick two stations, put two guys on the train at the first working from either end, both get off at the second and head back the other way. That way you've got just two stations dealing with dumping the papers, and you only need two people. Or maybe one.

Yes, it's a minor thing in the overall mess that is IE, but they add up.

markpb

MOH wrote: »

There's a guy on the DART every morning collecting Metros off seats.

AFAIK those guys are paid by the publishers of the papers - it's part of the contract with Irish Rail (and RPA) that allows them to give out papers on their property.

Nostradamus

Oliver1985 wrote: »

1. Scrap the free travel for anyone under 65.

and means test the over 65s Travel Passes. I once saw a oulfella in a Louis Copeland suit getting out of a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow and on to the Sligo train for a free trip to Dublin.

Oliver1985

Nostradamus wrote: »

and means test the over 65s Travel Passes. I once saw a oulfella in a Louis Copeland suit getting out of a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow and on to the Sligo train for a free trip to Dublin.

Also you can get rid of the amount of junkies hanging around on the train

westtip

Ask Michael O'Leary to be CEO for a year, (think this may have already been suggested) Take on the unions and get rid of them. Enforce Rostering so that a late night train can leave the mainline stations every night to all mainline terminus.

EG: 11.00 pm train to leave Connolly express to Mullingar/Longford and maybe one interim stop betwen Longford and Sligo. Make half the trains on the Sligo line as express trains stopping at four stations only.

Do a similar late night express service stopping at no more than four stations to Galway, Limerick and Cork. Then work with entertainment providers in the city - theatres etc to operate a buy a ticket to the theatre in Dublin and Rail ticket combination....be creative in their thinking.

Introduce railcards for regular users which give discounts - ie not just students and the usual bunch of social dossers who claim for everything. EG an Annual railcard at a cost of say 30 euro to give you automatic discounts if you are working for a living paying taxes raising a family and generally struggling on in life. The discounts could be for off-peak only.

Cut out this nonsense of bumping up prices on a Friday for intercity fares.

Integrated fares - so for example you can buy a ticket from say Sligo or any mainline station to anypoint on the Dart, or indeed a ticket from Sligo to Rosslare. - At the moment you have to buy two separate tickets - complete boll*cks; same theory applies to any other ticket routing through a terminus.

Integrated ticketing for rail and bus and Dart and Luas (I know I am having a serious laugh here!)

If you buy a day return from da country to the city let the day return include a Dublin city bus, Dart, Luas rambler type day ticket (Go on lets all have a real laugh!! can you imagine them coming up with anything as simple as that!)

Get a decent contractor to run the food services.

Put toilets on the Dart platform at the far end of Connolly station (platform 5)

Put a decent coffee dock on the same platform.

Be honest about Western Rail corridor (couldn't resist that one!!!)

Good barriers at all stations to cut out fare dodging.

Terrontress

Nostradamus wrote: »

and means test the over 65s Travel Passes. I once saw a oulfella in a Louis Copeland suit getting out of a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow and on to the Sligo train for a free trip to Dublin.

The oulfella might have paid fortunes in tax and prsi throughout his career. He may be on his last penny and need to sell the Roller. Who are you to judge?

afatbollix

^^^wouldent all that cost more money??? and not save them anything!!

Run_to_da_hills

Introduce a "free ride area" for inner city Dublin between certain times for the bus, luas and Dart. This has worked well in Seattle and other cities. It would encourage those that never use public transport to try it out and also for commuters to take suberban routes into the city to avail of it.

http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/ridefree.html

zagmund

I agree with the free ride idea. Get people used to the bus.

I remember in the old days the Dublin City Centre retailers laid on a shuttle between O'Connell Street & Grafton Street or thereabouts over Christmas. I think it was called the nipper or something.

Yes, it would cost money, but in the long run I think it would increase ridership and this will increase revenue. You could even charge a token €0.20 fare or something if you're determined to raise revenue immediately. Forget the €1 (or whatever it is) shopper hopper (or whatever it is) fare. It's too much to encourage people to just jump on. And any time I've tried to get the fare the driver has said "you're not a student" . . .

z

zagmund

Fuel savings - hard to argue with - stop running loads of empty Expressos from town out to UCD in the morning. Run a few full ones instead and keep the empty ones in the city centre. Consolidate the pax.

This, however, involves flexible ticketing, flexible rostering, the ability to get pax off one bus and onto another without charging them a new fare, etc . . . and we all know that this can only happen when a) a bus breaks down or b) it's time for a change of drivers/bus at Donnybrook.

z

p.s. apologies - I see this thread is supposed to be about the trains, but it's still a good idea.

kingshankly

As said people collecting papers are not employed by Irish rail (doubt They would do it)

L1011

Free Travel Pass changes would safe the DSFA money more than CIE; they get paid for the travel - they're not doing it out of the goodness of their heart clearly!

fh041205

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Introduce a "free ride area" for inner city Dublin between certain times for the bus, luas and Dart. This has worked well in Seattle and other cities. It would encourage those that never use public transport to try it out and also for commuters to take suberban routes into the city to avail of it.

http://transit.metrokc.gov/tops/bus/ridefree.html

I understand Dublin Bus are introducing a city centre fare of 0.50c. between Parnell sq. and St. Stephen's Green. Maybe IR could do the same, a flat fare between certain city centre stations?

Btw thanks for your reply Judgement Day. Do you really that fastrack could work? If your not dealing with big companies it means your customers will be few and far between. The odd casual person sending a present or something. I doubt it could compete timewise with road delivery anyway. thats my worry.

fh041205

Jaysus Victor is on the ball tonight!!! Here's the 50cent thing.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055628074

Judgement Day

fh041205 wrote: »

I understand Dublin Bus are introducing a city centre fare of 0.50c. between Parnell sq. and St. Stephen's Green. Maybe IR could do the same, a flat fare between certain city centre stations?

Btw thanks for your reply Judgement Day. Do you really that fastrack could work? If your not dealing with big companies it means your customers will be few and far between. The odd casual person sending a present or something. I doubt it could compete timewise with road delivery anyway. thats my worry.

Of course it would/did work - as I said elsewhere 800,000 consignments per year at the last count and that was with an overpriced, badly run service. Think about it, if YOU personally want to sent a parcel to somebody in Ireland - same day delivery/collection - where do you even start to look? That service, where it does exist, is massively expensive and not a runner for most people. Whereas a parcel left in at my local station (Enniscorthy) for the 08.27 or even the 13.48 service to Dublin should have been able to reach any mainline station on the island by the same evening. (I Have just checked this in the current timetable.) Tell me how any road operator could compete with that.

markpb

fh041205 wrote: »

I understand Dublin Bus are introducing a city centre fare of 0.50c. between Parnell sq. and St. Stephen's Green. Maybe IR could do the same, a flat fare between certain city centre stations?

Considering a) the amount of time it takes to get from the street to the platform in Connolly (for example) and b) the worse than useless gaps between trains during the day, how could a service like that be attractive? At least with the buses, there are enough of them that you wouldn't be waiting long.

KC61

westtip wrote: »

Ask Michael O'Leary to be CEO for a year, (think this may have already been suggested) Take on the unions and get rid of them. Enforce Rostering so that a late night train can leave the mainline stations every night to all mainline terminus.

EG: 11.00 pm train to leave Connolly express to Mullingar/Longford and maybe one interim stop betwen Longford and Sligo. Make half the trains on the Sligo line as express trains stopping at four stations only.

Iarnrod Eireann planned a 21:00 (or so) service to Mullingar for the December 2007 timetable change, using the set and crew off the 1734 Bray-Longford which was to be curtailed at Enfield. However, a certain well known TD from Westmeath intervened with the Chairman of CIE to stop the curtailment of the 1734 and as a result there was no train/crew available to operate the service.

When you say "enforce rostering" what do you mean? Drivers and trains are fully rostered already!! Where are you going to magic the drivers from?

Late night express services tend not to be successful as to fill them you need to stop at as many stations as possible.

You are not going to save any time by not stopping at stations on the Sligo line as every train already has to pass three services in the opposite direction at the passing loops at Boyle, Edgeworthstown and Maynooth. That fact dictates the timetable! And I'd hate to be the person telling towns they're losing half their train service. Usage on the Sligo route is very good - why diminish it further?

westtip wrote: »

Do a similar late night express service stopping at no more than four stations to Galway, Limerick and Cork. Then work with entertainment providers in the city - theatres etc to operate a buy a ticket to the theatre in Dublin and Rail ticket combination....be creative in their thinking.

While there might be demand for a later train to Galway than 1915, I'd be surprised if there was any real demand for a Cork/Limerick train later than the existing 2100.

Personally I think that a 2200 (or so) departure to Athlone, Carlow, Mullingar and Arklow would be a good idea, but they need to serve stations en route to carry sufficient numbers to be justifiable.

westtip wrote: »

Cut out this nonsense of bumping up prices on a Friday for intercity fares.

Actually the prices are bumped down for the rest of the week, being heavily discounted. Differential pricing is a fact of life in the transport industry to try to encourage passengers to use more lightly loaded services.

westtip wrote: »

Integrated fares - so for example you can buy a ticket from say Sligo or any mainline station to anypoint on the Dart, or indeed a ticket from Sligo to Rosslare. - At the moment you have to buy two separate tickets - complete boll*cks; same theory applies to any other ticket routing through a terminus.

Totally incorrect. You can already buy a ticket from any station in the country to any other station. Booking clerks have the full station list in their offices. However, two individual tickets *may* sometimes be cheaper if purchased online.

westtip wrote: »

Integrated ticketing for rail and bus and Dart and Luas (I know I am having a serious laugh here!)

Again incorrect. You can already buy monthly and annual combined bus/rail/LUAS tickets for the Short Hop ticketing area. There are a range also of bus/LUAS and rail/LUAS prepaid tickets (1 day/7 day/Monthly/Annual).

KC61

markpb wrote: »

Considering a) the amount of time it takes to get from the street to the platform in Connolly (for example) and b) the worse than useless gaps between trains during the day, how could a service like that be attractive? At least with the buses, there are enough of them that you wouldn't be waiting long.

Hopefully that problem will be redundant in the new DART timetable with a 15 minute clockface service throughout the day.

As it is however, there are usually commuter services filling those "useless gaps" on the line between Pearse and Connolly which is the journey segment that the previous poster was referring to, so it might not be such a bad idea!

fh041205

markpb wrote: »

Considering a) the amount of time it takes to get from the street to the platform in Connolly (for example) and b) the worse than useless gaps between trains during the day, how could a service like that be attractive? At least with the buses, there are enough of them that you wouldn't be waiting long.

Well personally, I don't like DB and don't like giving them money. Thats just me though.

Heisenberg1

MOH wrote: »

There's a guy on the DART every morning collecting Metros off seats. He generally arrives into my carriage as the DART reaches Blackrock. As I get off, a second guy gets on to do the same job.
Occasionally if i get a different DART, I'll see one of them jumping off at Blackrock and running off somewhere with the bags.

So you've got at least two guys and probably more, and may the same heading the other direction, running around various stations with plastic bags full of papers.

A more logical solution would be to pick two stations, put two guys on the train at the first working from either end, both get off at the second and head back the other way. That way you've got just two stations dealing with dumping the papers, and you only need two people. Or maybe one.

Yes, it's a minor thing in the overall mess that is IE, but they add up.

I have a better solution why don't rail users put there newspapers
in the bin like other people and stop stuffing crap down the sides
of seats I'd say that would save a fortune

Heisenberg1

luzon wrote: »

I have a better solution why don't rail users put there newspapers in the bin like other people

and stop stuffing crap down the sides of the seats i'd
say that would save a fortune