So, what you playing at the mo? Retro Edition

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

That's some feat as a kid, you really must have played the hell out of the game. All done with a D pad too I take it on the Snes?

It's amazing how different my thumbs were back then, I can't play fighting games at all anymore with a D pad, left thumb starts to get sore and creaky after about 5 minutes!

Aye, all on the snes with a pad, over glorious rf in 50Hz lol. A pal of mine back then was an absolute wizard at the game, we played a LOT of 2 player battles, it's how I learned the game really.

dav09

Any Goldeneye fans on here? The games I've waited years for the 2008 XBLA remaster leaked today, have it running on my JTAG/RGH (finally put that to good use) :pac:

It's fantastic, the graphics are amazing for what they are, plays and feels like the original, an amazing remaster. It's probably around 90% finished, bug fixing and one or two minor things is all that seems left, such a shame this was canceled but delighted to finally get to play the real thing after footage leaked out 5 years ago.

Steve X2

dav09 wrote: »

Any Goldeneye fans on here? The games I've waited years for the 2008 XBLA remaster leaked today, have it running on my JTAG/RGH (finally put that to good use) :pac:

It's fantastic, the graphics are amazing for what they are, plays and feels like the original, an amazing remaster. It's probably around 90% finished, bug fixing and one or two minor things is all that seems left, such a shame this was canceled but delighted to finally get to play the real thing after footage leaked out 5 years ago.

Hooked up my old RGH Slim 360 just for this. Definitely worth a look for anyone who enjoyed the N64 version.

CiDeRmAn

Damn, I am really going to have to get a modded 360...

Inviere

Sandopolis Zone done, quite tight on time through both acts...died a couple of times too. Need a bit more practice at it.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Damn, I am really going to have to get a modded 360...

Works in an emulator. Seen people play it on Xenia.

Doubt it makes the game any good :pac:

The Nal

dav09 wrote: »

Any Goldeneye fans on here?

Beautiful. One of the GOATs.

Whats the best emu for it on the PC?

Inviere

The Nal wrote: »

Beautiful. One of the GOATs.

Whats the best emu for it on the PC?

It works on Xenia. Seemingly the bugs and glitches in it are there on original hardware too, given its an incomplete game.

dav09

It's incomplete but honestly it was very far into development. It also feels finished compared to the rubbish released these days with major "bug fix" patches needed for months on end :pac:

From what I've played so far it's excellent, it's cool that you can switch back to N64 graphics any time in game with a button.

Inviere

The story of how it was 'leaked' is interesting.....

TLDR - It was posted on PartnerNet for about 1 hour in 2007. ParterNet was a kind of closed off XBL for devs, media staff etc to review & publish games before they went live. Unfortunately (or fortunately in this and other cases), ParrtNet was accessible with any dev kit (even frankenkits that could be cobbled together from broken machines.) So anyone could log into PartnerNet, grab the files, & archive them.

dav09

Inviere wrote: »

The story of how it was 'leaked' is interesting.....

TLDR - It was posted on PartnerNet for about 1 hour in 2007. ParterNet was a kind of closed off XBL for devs, media staff etc to review & publish games before they went live. Unfortunately (or fortunately in this and other cases), ParrtNet was accessible with any dev kit (even frankenkits that could be cobbled together from broken machines.) So anyone could log into PartnerNet, grab the files, & archive them.

Anyone who had a dev kit or a JTAG in 2008-2010ish knows the drama PartnerNet caused. Loads of leaked builds, time after time. It was almost like that episode of the Simpsons with Sideshow Bob and the rakes. I particularly remember the Sonic 4 EP1 drama, with levels having to be redesigned and a lot of rework having to happen after that build leak due to how rubbish it was. PartnerNet had to be shut down I believe for a bit due to security. Then Sonic 4 Episode 2/Part 2 leaked months later and all hell broke loose... Again :pac:

There were tonnes of game leaks and dramas. Apparently this Goldeneye Leak was sitting online on a site for 13 years with no passwords or protection, which originated from PartnerNet which seems to be the gift that keeps on giving.

Inviere

dav09 wrote: »

Anyone who had a dev kit or a JTAG in 2008-2010ish knows the drama PartnerNet caused. Loads of leaked builds, time after time. It was almost like that episode of the Simpsons with Sideshow Bob and the rakes. I particularly remember the Sonic 4 EP1 drama, with levels having to be redesigned and a lot of rework having to happen after that build leak due to how rubbish it was. PartnerNet had to be shut down I believe for a bit due to security. Then Sonic 4 Episode 2/Part 2 leaked months later and all hell broke loose... Again :pac:

There were tonnes of game leaks and dramas. Apparently this Goldeneye Leak was sitting online on a site for 13 years with no passwords or protection, which originated from PartnerNet which seems to be the gift that keeps on giving.

I couldn't remember if a JTAG could access PartnerNet or not, but if it could, fooking hell, crazy stuff. As you say, it's the gift that continues to give

dav09

Inviere wrote: »

I couldn't remember if a JTAG could access PartnerNet or not, but if it could, fooking hell, crazy stuff. As you say, it's the gift that continues to give

I actually can't remember that myself either! Back then owning a modded console was a different ball game to now and most people didn't block hosts, ports, etc i.e. ended up console banned fast if they connected to the internet at all. I remember leaked builds being made to run on modded consoles for sure but whether you could connect directly to PartnerNet I'm not sure, it would likely be pointless if so. I know ParthnerNet worked by assigning user permissions to accounts so individuals could access certain games but both bugs and mods meant loads of people got access to games they were never supposed to have access to.

Inviere

Sonic & Knuckles - the act 2 boss of Lava Reef took me out there. Two ~8 minute zones, so not inclined to try again until later. Bit of a pig, I'm sure once I figure it out it won't be so bad though

Inviere

Made it to Death Egg 1 in Sonic & Knuckles (Sonic). Tough act. I've been using the level select to get practice though, so even when I beat it, I'll still want to do it all in a sitting (or maybe a save state as my aged bones haven't got the patience for ~90min sittings these days )

Retr0gamer

Inviere wrote: »

Made it to Death Egg 1 in Sonic & Knuckles (Sonic). Tough act. I've been using the level select to get practice though, so even when I beat it, I'll still want to do it all in a sitting (or maybe a save state as my aged bones haven't got the patience for ~90min sittings these days )

Or play sonic 3 and knuckles which will allow saves.

I'd no trouble getting through sonic 3 or S&K levels except Death egg which I was getting up to the 8 minute mark on.

That stage reminds me of the final area of Strider.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Or play sonic 3 and knuckles which will allow saves.

That'll be next, there's other ways or practicing/saving nowadays anyway, so the lack of saves is a non issue.

I'd no trouble getting through sonic 3 or S&K levels except Death egg which I was getting up to the 8 minute mark on.

When I find a difficult zone, I do think "this is cheap, too long, and like a maze." After a second or third practice attempt though, I'm finding I'm flying through it. Lava Reef 2 was a pig the first time I played it, but the next time around I sailed through it.

With Sonic it's not so much difficulty, it's trepidation in terms of avoiding traps/cheap surprises. Sonic works best at speed, so at a slow pace, it can take a bit of practice in certain levels.

Death Egg has a big of a difficulty spike. That said, I made it through to the Act 1 boss on the first attempt, so it's no Star Road

Inviere

Death Egg 2 is a pig in Sonic & Knuckles!

Night Trap on the Mega CD. ��

Inviere

Inviere wrote: »

Death Egg 2 is a pig in Sonic & Knuckles!

Ok, game beaten (not in a single sitting yet.) Death Egg 2 is a pig, and I'll have to factor in losing a life on the level because to beat the level, and defeat Robotnik in his three forms in under ten mins isn't going to happen. That means losing a life on Robotnik by running out of time, & then having to do it again without being hit (there are no rings beyond the restart point.) It's do-able, I did it last night, but just something to consider.

I feel the game is a bit harder than Sonic 3, more so near the end, but will enjoy trying to do it in one sitting (or maybe two sittings, with a save state used in place of the missing save game function - because age/patience.)

Retr0gamer

I find it bizarre people are running out of time on sonic levels? It never happened to me when I played Sonic and Knuckles back in the day.

Saying that S&K is a game I played the crap out of as a kid but even then I don't remember it.

Or maybe its just me, I find I have good positional awareness in games compared to most other people. Which isn't a boast as everything else I'm crap at but I just notice my friends who are way better than me at FPs games really annoy me when I'm watching them or playing co-op as they always end up going the wrong way and getting lost. Same in Sonic games.

I do agree that S&K is a much tougher game than sonic 3.

Inviere

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I find it bizarre people are running out of time on sonic levels? ... I find I have good positional awareness in games compared to most other people.

It's not that I'm getting lost, it's just having to be quite cautious in those levels because of cheap placement of enemies. It's a long level, with a three phase boss fight....9 mins 59 seconds is a bit of an ask (given I've never played this far into the game in my life)

Retr0gamer

Or maybe it's because Sonic was never good or well designed to begin with?

Pulls pin out, drops hand grenade and runs to watch the fall out from afar.

o1s1n

To be honest I didn't even know you could run out of time in a Sonic level until I got to Carnival Night Act 2 the other day.

As Inviere said, there are just so many cheaply placed enemies and traps throughout the game. It gets far easier once you've played the levels a few times and know what's going to happen but that first play through it almost feels like wherever you jump there's a nasty surprise waiting for you.

Retr0gamer

I kind of find that with all the 16 bit sonic games. The first and maybe second zone you can get up a bit of speed in them but the game slows right down after that if you want to get through them and make it to the end. It's a misconception that sonic is about speed, it's about momentum.

o1s1n

Finished Sonic 3 this evening, Really is all straightforward enough once you know the enemy patterns.

Have to say, some lovely visuals going on. There's a gorgeous 3D parallax effect in Launch base Zone when you just enter the water (or are walking in ankle deep water) the sense of depth is incredible. Actually made me 'WOW!' out loud.

Going to start from the beginning now again with Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

Edit - well that's interesting, I thought when I loaded a combined S3&K rom onto my Everdrive, it would have overwritten my Sonic 3 save RAM.

Not only did it not do that, my Sonic 3 save has actually appeared in S3&K!

The save data must have remained in the Everdrive's save memory and then the new rom interacted with it. Cool stuff especially given it's a V1.0 archaic Everdrive.

YoshiSays

I remember getting a megadrive and sonic 1 + a few other games. Sonic never clicked with me. Always seemed awkward to control, too busy and boring after a time. And those those underwater levels... Later on, got a snes with super mario world and never went near sega again. Night and day difference playability for me. SMW is still a 10/10 game for me. Sonic is like, meh.

I still plan to get sonic mania on switch to do a reappraisal ...maybe it was the pal megadrive or crappy controller ...

Dr Bob

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Or maybe it's because Sonic was never good or well designed to begin with?

Pulls pin out, drops hand grenade and runs to watch the fall out from afar.

Dr Bob

YoshiSays wrote: »

I remember getting a megadrive and sonic 1 + a few other games. Sonic never clicked with me. Always seemed awkward to control, too busy and boring after a time. And those those underwater levels... Later on, got a snes with super mario world and never went near sega again. Night and day difference playability for me. SMW is still a 10/10 game for me. Sonic is like, meh.

I still plan to get sonic mania on switch to do a reappraisal ...maybe it was the pal megadrive or crappy controller ...

I could just never get into SMW , it just didnt do it for me . At least the levels in sonic felt different .
Of course Kid Chameleon crapped over both of them

Retr0gamer

GTFO!

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me why kid chameleon is good. It just feels like a euro jank platformer and I don't get the love for it at all.

DaveyDave

I've a bit of time to kill before the basketball is on

o1s1n

Just reading about the production of Sonic 3 - did you guys know the white bit of Knuckle's chest is actually a Nike tick as they were going to have a tie in that didn't work out?

That's news to me!

Dr Bob

Retr0gamer wrote: »

GTFO!

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me why kid chameleon is good. It just feels like a euro jank platformer and I don't get the love for it at all.

each to their own .
I always liked it as there was a lot of difference between levels ,and the powerups change the way the game was played almost completely. I liked the art style and there's a lot of secret levels , I mean of the hundred or so in game I think about 20 or 30 were hidden.

Gamer Bhoy 89

YoshiSays wrote: »

And those those underwater levels...
.

Underwater levels/missions in any game should be outlawed and removed from games forever. I hate the jarring feeling of having my momentum completely removed when an underwater level starts. You're slow and inconsistent, you're less accurate with jumps, you're floaty, everything takes ages to do, and it's easy to get lost if it's more open-ended. Sonic's Labyrinth Zone is my least favourite level in any game ever created. It's stressful and confusing and it didn't need to exist. I hate underwater sections in games so fcking much.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

GTFO!

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me why kid chameleon is good. It just feels like a euro jank platformer and I don't get the love for it at all.

I remember really enjoying this game until about two years ago where I just felt the game was starting to become stale.

The thing that eventually killed my appeal and enthusiasm for that game is the fact it never seems to end, and all the levels get rather repetitive. I made a horrible attempt at beating that game and it just wasn't happening. My judgement was clouded by the fact I played 4 or 5 levels that were getting increasingly challenging but then it just felt samey.

Kid Chameleon is an unnecessarily long, shallow game game for its time.

Retr0gamer

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

I remember really enjoying this game until about two years ago where I just felt the game was starting to become stale.

The thing that eventually killed my appeal and enthusiasm for that game is the fact it never seems to end, and all the levels get rather repetitive. I made a horrible attempt at beating that game and it just wasn't happening. My judgement was clouded by the fact I played 4 or 5 levels that were getting increasingly challenging but then it just felt samey.

Kid Chameleon is an unnecessarily long, shallow game game for its time.

That's kind of how I felt. There's loads of secrets and stuff but it just has that western unstructured feel to it. I also made an attempt at it as well and just gave up as it was just so long and nothing felt like it was changing between levels to make it interesting. It's just a game that has never clicked with me. I'm interested in finding out what actually makes it click for people or if it's just nostalgia.

o1s1n

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

Underwater levels/missions in any game should be outlawed and removed from games forever. I hate the jarring feeling of having my momentum completely removed when an underwater level starts. You're slow and inconsistent, you're less accurate with jumps, you're floaty, everything takes ages to do, and it's easy to get lost if it's more open-ended. Sonic's Labyrinth Zone is my least favourite level in any game ever created. It's stressful and confusing and it didn't need to exist. I hate underwater sections in games so fcking much.

Ah Labyrinth Zone, that countdown sound used to stress me to no end.

In retrospect, there are air bubbles all over the place in Sonic games. Once you realise the chances of you running out of are actually really low, there's no stress at all.

Sonic 3 makes it even easier by giving you a bubble power up that makes you unable to drown.

I tell you what still stresses me out to this day though, wall chases!

Sonic 3 Hydrocity's wall chase - again it's not particularly difficult, just that sense of trying to get Sonic's momentum to stop long enough that you can stand still, do a spindash to get up a ramp before being crushed by a wall - the horror.

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

That's kind of how I felt. There's loads of secrets and stuff but it just has that western unstructured feel to it. I also made an attempt at it as well and just gave up as it was just so long and nothing felt like it was changing between levels to make it interesting. It's just a game that has never clicked with me. I'm interested in finding out what actually makes it click for people or if it's just nostalgia.

I've only ever played it for five minutes - your utter hatred over the years has completely turned me off giving it a proper go

CiDeRmAn

I feel like I have finally achieved the goal my time moderating A&R...
In all the years my master plan was to rehabilitate Sonic 3 with you all...
My work is done...

Now to spend the next 10 years getting you all to play Cold winter on the PS2....

o1s1n

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I feel like I have finally achieved the goal my time moderating A&R...
In all the years my master plan was to rehabilitate Sonic 3 with you all...
My work is done...

Now to spend the next 10 years getting you all to play Cold winter on the PS2....

I've actually grown rather fond of it after that playthrough and now playing through again as Knuckles. It has a very different feel to the first two games but once you get over that, there's a lot of cool stuff going on.

Maybe we should have been listening to your recommendations after all, should I now pick up that copy of Fire Warrior?

Retr0gamer

I've always really liked sonic 3. Think it's a great game, it just doesn't live up to Sonic 2. I also think S&K is a big improvement on Sonic 3 and when they are combined it's a really great game.

o1s1n wrote: »

I've only ever played it for five minutes - your utter hatred over the years has completely turned me off giving it a proper go

I actually don't know if I'm missing something that will make it click or do I really just think it's a bad game. I'm not ready to call it crap but even playing it back in the 90's I didn't enjoy it.

CiDeRmAn

While I enjoyed Firewarrior a lot, at the time, a recent attempt to play it again ended in sadness and broken memories...
Avoid...

I am avoiding playing Metal Arms on the Xbox for similar reasons now, I really enjoyed it at the time, but that was 18 years ago!

Retr0gamer

Metal Arms is another game I don't get. Heard it described as a cute Halo. What I played was grand but did not stand out enough for me to play past the third stage. It's not bad, it certainly isn't Fire Warrior, I just didn't see what made it stand out from the likes of Ratchet and Clank (another serious I find highly overrated.... Maybe I think everything is overrated :eek:)

Cold Winter on the other hand I wouldn't call incredible either but as a PS2 shooter it's one of the better ones and still a blast even if it's long been surpassed by better games. I'd put it up there with Turok, another game I went back to out of curiosity and found it a hell of a lot of fun.

Retr0gamer

Finished 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim (incredible game btw and would recommend it to the snatcher fans here) so I'll be diving back into retro games from tonight. I'll keep plugging away at mischief makers but might go back to Ecco and take a break from megaman to finish off some Castlevania games.

YoshiSays

Gamer Bhoy 89 wrote: »

Underwater levels/missions in any game should be outlawed and removed from games forever. I hate the jarring feeling of having my momentum completely removed when an underwater level starts. You're slow and inconsistent, you're less accurate with jumps, you're floaty, everything takes ages to do, and it's easy to get lost if it's more open-ended. Sonic's Labyrinth Zone is my least favourite level in any game ever created. It's stressful and confusing and it didn't need to exist. I hate underwater sections in games so fcking much.

Yep, they are a PITA. I think BOTW does not have any underwater levels cause the team were probably exhausted trying to get link to move underwater after all those years.

Have you tried Rayman Legends ? Underwater levels are silky smooth and fun. There is even a level with a load of singing fish. Ori is also pretty good underwater once he gets his breathe under water ability. It can be as good.

o1s1n

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Finished 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim (incredible game btw and would recommend it to the snatcher fans here) so I'll be diving back into retro games from tonight. I'll keep plugging away at mischief makers but might go back to Ecco and take a break from megaman to finish off some Castlevania games.

Had a quick look at a video review after reading that, all excited to try it out - not on any platform I own. Bugger!

Retr0gamer

But is it even a platform game if you can bitch about water levels and ice physics?

YoshiSays

tropical freeze 2 please

Steve X2

Was sorting through a box of games and came across Soukyugurentai on the Saturn(Jap). Actually had no idea what it was until I started playing it
The English language release was called Terra Diver.

Really nice vertical shmup and another one that the price is going up on. Looks amazing on a Sony PVM/BVM.

Nasty scanline free long play here:

Retr0gamer

Are you only discovering Souky now? The game is awesome. Amazing soundtrack as well. The third stage when you was flying through the clouds is one of my all time favourite shmup levels.

o1s1n

I only have two Sega ST-V carts, Diehard arcade and Souky, both worth owning the system for!

The cloud level is absolutely brilliant, from the music to the descent from above the atmosphere down to those jeeps on the ground.

I actually prefer it as a game to Radiant Silvergun. Havent played it in a good few years now, must dig it out.