Has the 2009 strike helped Cork hurling?

MrJoeSoap

Tipp 1-19 Cork 0-19
Cork 3-19 Offaly 1-12
Galway 1-19 Cork 0-15

So, a fairly disappointing campaign in the Rebel county, with the only victory coming against a weak Offaly side with a solitary threat. Have things really moved on since the strike?

Whatever the reasons for their grievances, the decision to stop playing under Gerald McCarthy showed a massive disrespect for the man and the league. Can anybody say things would have been worse in this seasons championship had McCarthy still been in charge, and the "2008 panel" (for want of a better phrase) on the pitch? The problem, it seems to me, wasn't with McCarthy or the managerial selection process but was more to do with the current team being on a downward spiral and struggling to grasp that reality.

And what for the future? Can anyone see the current crop of youngsters challenging Kilkenny, Tipp, Galway (or even Dublin) for All-Irelands over the coming years?

homerjay2005

NO

simple really.

Erin Go Brath

The strike is a red herring. The harsh reality is that Cork are an aging team and just simply not as good as they used to be. They are heavily dependent on Ben O'Connor to pull them out of the mire, but Ben brilliant and as he is, is just one man.

Cork need new blood and plenty of it. It will (i'd imagine) be the end of the road for a few players, and a time for rebuilding. Not sure how Cork are performing with underage, but i'd imagine there has to be plenty of young talent in a county like Cork. Cork have the biggest hurling following in the country and they won't be happy with the way Cork limped tamely out of the C'ship this year.

rebel girl 15

Ageing team? average age of the team last night was 26, so that really cannot be called an aging team. they are on the road a long time, but I think they will have a good break now, and the hunger will be back next year. 3/4 made championship debuts, which is good. With a proper pre season, without the hassle of previous year, I think they can bounce back somewhat

The underage structures are not good enough, lack of success at underage level, poor quality coaching and coach education. We need regional development squads from under 12 upwards - there are squads coming together at 15, 16 and 17 level, but needs to be earlier. The best players are not necessarily on these squads either, which hinders them

The 09 strike has shown that u cannot put 15 new players into a team and hope for results. remember that denis walsh has had three months in charge, which is not enough. there hasn't been enough change at CB level, and I think the clubs will have something to say come December. We need to forget about the strike, a lot of supporters have put it behind them, and need to unite behind the players

KerranJast

The strike was more about the future of Cork hurling than this season. Too early to tell if it was worth making the stand.

lukin

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Ageing team? average age of the team last night was 26, so that really cannot be called an aging team. they are on the road a long time, but I think they will have a good break now, and the hunger will be back next year. 3/4 made championship debuts, which is good. With a proper pre season, without the hassle of previous year, I think they can bounce back somewhat

Wouldn't agree with you there, I forecast a barren spell for Cork hurling, for how long I don't know though.

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

The underage structures are not good enough, lack of success at underage level, poor quality coaching and coach education. We need regional development squads from under 12 upwards - there are squads coming together at 15, 16 and 17 level, but needs to be earlier. The best players are not necessarily on these squads either, which hinders them

Agree with this, KK have this system where they spot the best hurlers at 12 and 13 and start developing them from that age on.
We should be doing this too but the county Board won't as they are always right in everything they do.
Some would say that comparing Cork with KK is not a fair comparison 'cause they only have hurling there, Tomas O' Leary opted for rugby and he was an excellent forward on the AI-winning Cork minor hurling team of 2001 (imagine what a difference he might have made if he was on the pitch last night).

Orizio

We have some long overdue and partial improvements regarding youth structure forced on the Cork County board by Croker, so I would say yes.

cruiserweight

Orizio wrote: »

We have some long overdue and partial improvements regarding youth structure forced on the Cork County board by Croker, so I would say yes.

If that is the criteria for whether it was a success or not then it is far to early to tell, we will have to wait a few years at least before we know.

Orizio

cruiserweight wrote: »

If that is the criteria for whether it was a success or not then it is far to early to tell, we will have to wait a few years at least before we know.

What they have put in place is only a foundation, and alone won't have enough of effect unless we act further. What I wrote yesterday...

More generally, the result and perfomance is a result of a far greater malaise in Cork GAA that has left our hurlers right in a middle of a barren period that may take years to get out of. Very simply, we haven't produced a truly great underage team since the 2001 All-Ireland Minor winners. Since that team, we have produced three geniunely excellent young players - Eoin Cadogan (maybe not at full-back however), Shane O'Neill and Pa Horgan - that's it. 3 great prospects in 8 years. Moreover, our minors this year were destroyed by a Tipp team that was destroyed by Waterford. Conor O'Sullivan, Tadgh Og Murphy etc may come good in time but the general point is that in terms of youth development, structure and investment we are a decade behind the likes of Tipperary, Galway, Kilkenny, Dublin and, if this years results are anything to go by, even the likes of Clare and Waterford. What we must produce to get anywhere near another All-Ireland is a few underage All-Ireland's in a row, something we have barely even looked like achieving this year.

For the future, we need a complete overhaul or our underage system - lads with any potential need to be taken away from 12 years up for a dozen or so training sessions per year with full time coaches, taught about nutrition, health etc and have the basics of hurling burned into their skulls. We need development squads at every age group Under-12 to senior level. We need far more training seminars in every club in the county, the general standard of coaching is very often pathetic. This is only, I might add, what they do in Dublin GAA - we need to do this, at the minimum, to begin to catch up. Regarding burnout, I'm inclined to think their should be no competitive competitions before Under-14 level - only blitzes which have eight or ten a side games to ensure greater participation, while Minors should not be allowed play senior with their club, a ban that could even be extended to Under-21's playing senior, mnors playing under 21 etc.

...would be a start. I don't see a lot of this happening with the current lot running the show in the Pairc, their actions seem to be a matter of getting Croker off their back.

Regardless, Cork Hurling, and I'm inclined to the think our Footballers have little chance of winning anything of note, is stuck right in the middle of a barren period that we won't get out of for half a decade and only then if we start producing All-Ireland hurling winning teams.

davestar

Galway 1-19 Cork 0-15


NO

jimmym

after all the crap that went on in the strike it was up to the players to
"walk the walk" they failed,maybe people will now
realise gerald was not sole reason for corks poor form,
too many so called marquee players have been poor for
last 3 yrs,we are miles behind kk and tipp
in developing new talent,
co board seriously at fault,

derealbadger

the strke was about the big ego of three or four of corks veterans and everyone in the countrywas glad to see them bet the way they treated McCarty was horrible and a lot of people in cork were glad to see them bet last night to for that reason

TheSpecialOne

and the players blamed gerald for their inability to challenge over his reign as manager....its worth saying that geralds much slated cork team got further under him in the championship than the cork team without him....i wonder who they'll blame next!

Aidric

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

and the players blamed gerald for their inability to challenge over his reign as manager....its worth saying that geralds much slated cork team got further under him in the championship than the cork team without him....i wonder who they'll blame next!

They are a laughable bunch really. They certainly won't be getting much sympathy from anyone outside the county in any case.

Orizio

Aidric wrote: »

They are a laughable bunch really. They certainly won't be getting much sympathy from anyone outside the county in any case.

Oh dear, how will we carry on...:D;)

Aidric

Orizio wrote: »

Oh dear, how will we carry on...:D;)

I don't know tbh. :P

Orizio

Aidric wrote: »

I don't know tbh. :P

Mass suicide, everyone in the Lee...;)

lukin

Aidric wrote: »

They are a laughable bunch really. They certainly won't be getting much sympathy from anyone outside the county in any case.

I don't think Cork people are looking for sympathy from anyone. The strike was an internal affair anyway, I didn't entirely agree with it myself but I don't see what damage it did to the GAA outside of Cork.

run_Forrest_run

I certainly don't think the strike had any impact on the team's performance in the Championship, they don't have the players at the moment. The fact that yer man Aisake was left on for the full game says it all really, dropping balls, theatrical falls, totally useless.

sidelines

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

I certainly don't think the strike had any impact on the team's performance in the Championship, they don't have the players at the moment. The fact that yer man Aisake was left on for the full game says it all really, dropping balls, theatrical falls, totally useless.

Yes the 'theatrical falls' were some joke - my mother was watching the match and asking if he was going to be the Drogba of hurling

derealbadger

how many of them will retire this year

Lex Luthor

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

and the players blamed gerald for their inability to challenge over his reign as manager....its worth saying that geralds much slated cork team got further under him in the championship than the cork team without him....

yip, you're right there

Lex Luthor

derealbadger wrote: »

how many of them will retire this year

hopefully ALL of them

Hacks

It obviously didn't do Cork hurling any good if they're out of the Championship in mid July !!

gallant1

They should of concentrated on the hurling and try to match Kilkennys intensity but na Cusack and co decided that Gerald and the county board were to blame for everything and went on strike.The good of Cork hurling my hole ,if they didnt want to play under Gerald they should of just retired and ****ed off back to their clubs .Cork hurling is bigger than any group of players .Denis Walsh now have to blood new fellas and put three or four into retirement if they dont go themselves .Just remember JBMs time he blooded the young and looked what happened

jimmym

gallant1 wrote: »

They should of concentrated on the hurling and try to match Kilkennys intensity but na Cusack and co decided that Gerald and the county board were to blame for everything and went on strike.The good of Cork hurling my hole ,if they didnt want to play under Gerald they should of just retired and ****ed off back to their clubs .Cork hurling is bigger than any group of players .Denis Walsh now have to blood new fellas and put three or four into retirement if they dont go themselves .Just remember JBMs time he blooded the young and looked what happened

well said gallant1, my thoughts exactly, big egos,this cork team has been
sliding for 3 years,people who went on marches will follow these
players blindly,at end of day they werent good enough

allthedoyles

well as in all games , you need to keep your eye on the ball at all times .

Cork players took their eye off the ball and lost focus .

Orizio

Hacks wrote: »

It obviously didn't do Cork hurling any good if they're out of the Championship in mid July !!

It obviously did do Cork GAA good as we, finally and very belatedly, have permanent youth develpoment officers in place, and the CCB is generally being forced into action by Croker.

Daysha

Orizio wrote: »

It obviously did do Cork GAA good as we, finally and very belatedly, have permanent youth develpoment officers in place, and the CCB is generally being forced into action by Croker.

Was that really the aim of the 08 panel though, to implement permanent youth development officers? It's not Gerald McCarthys fault that youth structures in the county is a mess.

run_Forrest_run

Daysha wrote: »

Was that really the aim of the 08 panel though, to implement permanent youth development officers? It's not Gerald McCarthys fault that youth structures in the county is a mess.

very good point Daysha, suddenly it's about youth structures, next they will be blaming global warming on poor Gerarld;)

Orizio

Daysha wrote: »

Was that really the aim of the 08 panel though, to implement permanent youth development officers? It's not Gerald McCarthys fault that youth structures in the county is a mess.

Not sure really, but there is little doubt the strike had a very positive effect, even if unintended, to Cork GAA regarding underage structure.

Cork 5-24 Waterford 3-09 btw.

Daysha

Orizio wrote: »

Not sure really, but there is little doubt the strike had a very positive effect, even if unintended, to Cork GAA regarding underage structure.

I'm not denying it'll probably do your underage structure good in the long term for sure, but I think Gerald would have every reason to feel even more bitter than he already is about the saga if Cork people continue to disregard the fact that, as things stand, he has greater success than Denis Walsh, even though both had essentially the exact same panel of players at their disposal.

And while Walsh had only a months preparations with the players before the Championship, remember thats what the players chose. They rathered bringing in a new man only a few weeks before the Cork game and give him little to no time to stamp his authority, than give Gerald a full 4-5 months preparation for the same game.

They knew they would be miles behind the other counties in terms of laying the foundations for the summer, so with that came added pressure on the players to step up and make themselves, the Cork people and indeed Gerald McCarthy believe it was the right decision. It didn't work, and their reputations have been damaged further as a result imo.

Cork 5-24 Waterford 3-09 btw.

:eek: Jaysus, them intermediates love going easy on ya

LeoB

Back to the O.P. I think it could be benifical in the medium term as a few lads will have to pack it in despite the fact the average age of the team was only 26. There was obviously a deep rooted feeling on both sides and I would not discount more hassle if there are not changes at CCC.

The CLUBS will have to ensure there are changes made. The CLUBS will have to come up with proposals for these development officers.

Its no guarentee that development officers will solve the problems in Cork. It also does'nt need to be radical but it does need people in all areas to read of the same hymn sheet.

Time to get your motions ready for Cork convention, that is if ye really want change:p;)

Fear na gCrub

At least Dónal Óg can now concentrate on what he does best.

premierstone

Fear na gCrub wrote: »

At least Dónal Óg can now concentrate on what he does best.

As much as I dislike the man he was actually one of if not their best player in the Galway match.

shockframe

i hate to say it but yes. the fact is that cork have been successful in recent years has been in spite of the ccb not beacause of them.too easy to say that they are finished but once kilkenny go through a bad patch they will still be one of the best out of a bad lot.the only thing that will help them is that limerick,clare,waterford and wexford are not really delivering at underage.they have a huge pick.it could take 10 years before we see the benefit of underage planning but once it pays off theres no telling how good they could become.

although the way jbm refused the 21 job this week shows the ccb has a lot to learn yet.

premierstone

shockframe wrote: »

i hate to say it but yes. the fact is that cork have been successful in recent years has been in spite of the ccb not beacause of them.too easy to say that they are finished but once kilkenny go through a bad patch they will still be one of the best out of a bad lot.the only thing that will help them is that limerick,clare,waterford and wexford are not really delivering at underage.they have a huge pick.it could take 10 years before we see the benefit of underage planning but once it pays off theres no telling how good they could become.

although the way jbm refused the 21 job this week shows the ccb has a lot to learn yet.

I'd say the Waterford and Clare boys arent going to let that slide Waterford have won the minor, are in the U-21 Final both at the expense of Tipp teams that beat Cork and this added to the recent success of de la salle things arent as bleak as you may think down in the deise, and Clare are in said u-21 final with a very good team which in all reality should be going for a two in a row and last year iirc they beat Cork in the munster minor championship!

* Cant believe I just posted defending Waterford and Clare hurling, fcuk I feel dirty :P

shockframe

premierstone wrote: »

I'd say the Waterford and Clare boys arent going to let that slide Waterford have won the minor, are in the U-21 Final both at the expense of Tipp teams that beat Cork and this added to the recent success of de la salle things arent as bleak as you may think down in the deise, and Clare are in said u-21 final with a very good team which in all reality should be going for a two in a row and last year iirc they beat Cork in the munster minor championship!

* Cant believe I just posted defending Waterford and Clare hurling, fcuk I feel dirty :P

i know waterford won the minor recently but that was their first win in 17 years at the grade.the 21s last won in 94.its a starting point i suppose but they need a few more minor/21 wins as the senior team look to be in decline.clare should win the under 21 next week but with they discontent with the county board and the current senior form they look to be in serious trouble.limerick made a bit of improvement at minor this year but unless the rugby hype is halted its gonna be a lost cause.the standard of club hurling is dreadful though.at least patrickswell are coming good again by the looks of it.

cork will always be there or thereabouts because of the population and even with zero support from the county board they are still ahead of limerick,clare,waterford but just behind tipp.if this underage plan goes ahead i hate to think how far behind limerick,clare,waterford will be.

suitcasepink

I don't understand your first point to much Shockframe. I mean is it not better for our 2010 panel to succed in 2009 and minor and under 21 rather then not. I mean it doesnt matter in the last 17 years we hant done well under age coz we did well senior. So theorehticaly speaking if we do better at underage will our senior team not become a stronger team?

I think the futures looking as bright as ever as far as talent goes. The one thing I worry is will we eevr have a scorer like Paul Flynn again, or someone with as much heart as Ken, or someone to play into their late 30s?? Its beyond me how a team containing these 3 didnt win an all ireland.

Saying this if we strengten up the likes of Maurice shan, Thomas Ryan, maybe a taller noel connors, maybe give maher more experience and then theres the minors. I think we have a lot more to look forward to than other counties.

And premier are you a waterford supporter in disguise? :P Defending us at the expense of your own team!! its greatly appreciated lol

Orizio

Daysha wrote: »

Was that really the aim of the 08 panel though, to implement permanent youth development officers? It's not Gerald McCarthys fault that youth structures in the county is a mess.

Does it matter?

The question was has the strike helped Cork Hurling, and the answer is yes because of the changes to the youth structure, the creation of the clubs forum etc.

suitcasepink

I think the next year or two will really tell if it helped Cork hurling or not.....

shockframe

deise_girl wrote: »

I don't understand your first point to much Shockframe. I mean is it not better for our 2010 panel to succed in 2009 and minor and under 21 rather then not. I mean it doesnt matter in the last 17 years we hant done well under age coz we did well senior. So theorehticaly speaking if we do better at underage will our senior team not become a stronger team?

I think the futures looking as bright as ever as far as talent goes. The one thing I worry is will we eevr have a scorer like Paul Flynn again, or someone with as much heart as Ken, or someone to play into their late 30s?? Its beyond me how a team containing these 3 didnt win an all ireland.

Saying this if we strengten up the likes of Maurice shan, Thomas Ryan, maybe a taller noel connors, maybe give maher more experience and then theres the minors. I think we have a lot more to look forward to than other counties.

And premier are you a waterford supporter in disguise? :P Defending us at the expense of your own team!! its greatly appreciated lol

forgot about this. im not sure what you mean by the first point you made about the first point i made.

look all im trying to say is 1 minor in 17 years is very poor.we havent won one since 1984 and look where we are.waterford only had 2 wins in 12 years at minor aswell outside of kerry if i remember rightly.i have seen some deise minor/21 teams and the work rate of some players leaves a lot to be desired.cork and tipp shared every minor title between themselves from 93 to 2007 and will always have a number of players that will always have an advantage when playing the other 3 teams.

the senior team are in a period of transition and losing the likes of paul flynn,dan and ken if they retire etc will leave a huge gap to fill.from what i saw of waterford in the minor semi only no. 9 and 11 would be a year or two away from senior.

as i said before i would like to see waterford do well but things can change very quickly in gaa.look at teams like clare,wexford,offaly and limerick over the years.these teams deluded themselves into thinking that the good times would carry on but have paid the price.

Orizio

deise_girl wrote: »

I think the next year or two will really tell if it helped Cork hurling or not.....

Not at all, the next decade is when we should see the underage reforms working.

suitcasepink

Number 15, Ian Galgey isnt half bad either.. Off the top of my head.

Yeh Im trying to see how to phrase it, I'll try again. We havn't done well underage in the last 17 years or so you say. Yet the last 10 years we have had a decent senior team. Where did they come from?? But if we do well at underage ether the standard should go up for senior leval or we should have many more to pick from in the next couple of years.

The next 10 years.. Your giving yourselves time anyway.

Orizio

Well thats invariably what it takes to produce winning underage teams and bring the best players to senior level.

tomdadude

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Tipp 1-19 Cork 0-19
Cork 3-19 Offaly 1-12
Galway 1-19 Cork 0-15

So, a fairly disappointing campaign in the Rebel county, with the only victory coming against a weak Offaly side with a solitary threat. Have things really moved on since the strike?

Whatever the reasons for their grievances, the decision to stop playing under Gerald McCarthy showed a massive disrespect for the man and the league. Can anybody say things would have been worse in this seasons championship had McCarthy still been in charge, and the "2008 panel" (for want of a better phrase) on the pitch? The problem, it seems to me, wasn't with McCarthy or the managerial selection process but was more to do with the current team being on a downward spiral and struggling to grasp that reality.

And what for the future? Can anyone see the current crop of youngsters challenging Kilkenny, Tipp, Galway (or even Dublin) for All-Irelands over the coming years?

Dublin being too good for Cork?You're joking right.

Cork are a lot better then the majority of teams.
With the exception of Kilkenny they're as good as anybody still.

Johnnyjump

KerranJast wrote: »

The strike was more about the future of Cork hurling than this season. Too early to tell if it was worth making the stand.

Have to agree. 2009 was always going to be written off and possibly 2010. There was much that needed changing and the strike perhaps highlighted that. Sadly, the reasons behind the strike were beyond the comprehension of some commentators, clearly not familiar with the situation on the ground. Let's hope that there are more positive times ahead and that hurling will be the winner in the longer term.