Going to buy an XL2, is it out of date?

Mbyte

I'm doing a documentary and I already bought a NTSC XL2 I have decided now that I need a Pal XL2. This was an expensive mistake. I bought the NTSC XL2 for it's 24p function. I only realised a few weeks ago most of my other footage is in 25p and I tried converting it to 24p visa versa and it looks choppy. I also have 30p footage which will be used as well. I think for convinience I should work with two frame rates not three types. Basically I will only work with 30fps and 25fps and NOT 24fps. I am going to make the documentary in 25fps.

This is the dilema. I have read many things about the XL2 in relation to the new HD cameras and the XL2 seems to be still up there amoungst the greats. However all these forums were created in 2005 and a lot of people mention that HD cameras will be cheaper and we will see what things will be like 2 years down the line. It's now 4 years down the line and there are lots of HD cameras and no up to date XL2 threads. I am wondering should I pay for a PAL XL2 or should I consider getting a better camera? If there is any. This is a big concern of mine. Now that I'm able to afford an XL2 that would basically mean it's piece of bacon now and there is a much better camera now.

Obviously there is a better camera then the XL2 but one similiar in price range because the price hasn't dropped much for it.

I'll be buying the camera this week sometime unless someone has a reason that I should not.

Thanks

kvn.ie

How much are you paying for the XL2?

Are you buying new or 2nd hand?

Mbyte

I bought the NTSC Second hand off ebay, nothing wrong with it. I am buying the PAL Brand New.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/355924-GREY/Canon_XL2E_XL_2E_PAL_System_1_3_Inch.html

Note it is in Dollor$

keefg

If you are buying from BH have you taken into account that you will have to add VAT & import duty?

Mbyte

I know... I found a euopean site with the same price but it's disapered or I can't find it. Ibought a tripod from there already.

I presume that the replies have been so low that an XL2 is not as obsolete as I thought. If any one has any alternatives then please share.

keefg

What price was the European one for can you remember?

I don't know too much about Canon cameras (I'm a Sony man ) but if I were buying a new camera now then I wouldn't consider anything less than HDV, SD is pretty much dead when it comes to broadcast stuff.

If it's just for web stuff then Mini DV is fine but if you want to step up your production then in 8-12 months you might regret not buying HD.

Just looking on a UK site, the XL2 goes for just under 4.5k sterling (inc VAT) for that sort of money you could buy a Sony Z7 or buy a Sony Z5 for 4.1k (sterling) and get some accessories.

Both of the Sony's are HDV and can record on tape & compact flash card and both have excellent low light capabilities.

keefg

OOOoooooo.......I've just thought of another option for you.

The Canon 5d Mark 2

It's a digital SLR that films in full 1920x1080.

The 5d mk 2 is really popular at the moment and I know guys who are selling their full size HD camcorders (EX1 & EX3's) and switching to it.

You can pick up a 5d mk2 for around 2.5k euro and then just buy the lens you want.

Mbyte

This is what I was afraid of...

Dang it. Won't High defenition take up a lot of Hard Drive space?

I made a computer just for my documentary. It has 5 Hard Drives. Four Hard Drives setup with Raid 10 and one for the operating system. Basically I have a 1.30TB memory another 1.30TB for backup.

WOW WOW!!!! Are you talking about the Canon EOS 5D Picture Camera!!! For god sake man. I hear it's amazing and that it is terrible with presets and that kind of thing. You have to redo the entire process over and over to set up to shoot anything. My friend has been researching it because he's into cameras and he a 20D I think. He says it rediculously good but it's very slow to work with because it takes ages to do anything. I saw that clip wear a production team were supposedly to use the camera for a night or two and see what they could do with it. There is an actor or too in there. It looks good but it's a picture camera not a video camera. I would actually buy that camera if this documentary wasn't so god damn urgant.

Should I consider getting a HDV Camera?

All threads on different forums suggest the SD is still good but that was 3 years ago. Does 720p and 1080p compress well to DVD?

Now I'm worried. More time could be waisted on choosing a new camera.

keefg

Only you can decide on what to buy but I think you are mad to look at SD cameras with the money you are looking to spend.

As if you didn't need anymore headaches here's another suggestion for you...

How long is the shoot for?

Why don't you look at hiring a HDV set up?

This guy here is offering a killer HDV rental package. You won't get a better rental deal anywhere else.

Bob Z

although canon make good lenses i dont really think their cameras are built to last

briano.de.rhino

sony fx-7 for E2500ish if u can find it. or fx-1000 for E3000. I think both do SD and HD. I believe hd still has ironing out to do even now.

keefg

briano.de.rhino wrote: »

I believe hd still has ironing out to do even now.

What issues would you see with HD Brian?

Do you mean HD or the CMOS chips?

briano.de.rhino

im talking out me arse here, just from what I glean,
unless you are doing something HD specific and are HD all the way to the eventual viewer of the material,... not everyone has HD tv or output, hd is harder to edit with??, and manufacturers are not using same hd settings etc.
this is just what ive heard from various sources.whats your take on it?

keefg

briano.de.rhino wrote: »

im talking out me arse here, just from what I glean,
unless you are doing something HD specific and are HD all the way to the eventual viewer of the material,... not everyone has HD tv or output, hd is harder to edit with??, and manufacturers are not using same hd settings etc.
this is just what ive heard from various sources.whats your take on it?

HD does take up a lot of disc space but it's very easy to edit.

I see what you mean about the final use of the footage and for a lot of amature filmmakers SD is a perfectly affordable option for them.

The OP is talking about making a docu so I'm guessing it's going to be broadcast somewhere and a lot of production companies now are looking for higher quality footage.

Even You Tube and the like are migrating to HD so it won't be long before it's "the norm".

It's a personal choice for me, I wouldn't consider shooting anything in SD. When HD or HDV cameras are so affordable now I just don't see the point of buying an inferior format to shoot with.

Which is why I think the OP may regret spending his/her hard earned on an SD camera only to regret it in 12 months and be lumbered with a camera that's worth bugger all 2nd hand.

joconnell

5d is nice in certain situations but it's limiting - the footage wobbles a huge amount unless you shoot locked off or on a dolly, the compression is huge on the quicktimes so the highlights look ****e - could be okay if you're down-rezzing after. I wouldn't use it as a cover all documentary camera. It can do some lovely stuff with the optical qualities of a big sensor and a nice fast lense but you can't use it for handheld stuff. If you play by its rules though you can do stuff like this - http://vimeo.com/4704533

keefg

joconnell wrote: »

5d is nice in certain situations but it's limiting - the footage wobbles a huge amount unless you shoot locked off or on a dolly, the compression is huge on the quicktimes so the highlights look ****e - could be okay if you're down-rezzing after. I wouldn't use it as a cover all documentary camera. It can do some lovely stuff with the optical qualities of a big sensor and a nice fast lense but you can't use it for handheld stuff. If you play by its rules though you can do stuff like this - http://vimeo.com/4704533

Good post.

I've been impressed by the footage I have seen from the 5d mk2 but I did worry about the usability of it.

joconnell

Yeah it's not fully there yet or we'd buy one - pinning hopes on the scarlet.

keefg

joconnell wrote: »

Yeah it's not fully there yet or we'd buy one - pinning hopes on the scarlet.

I know guys who have sold their EX1 and switched to the 5d mk2 for full time productions :eek:

But they are happy with it an think it's the right decision for them.

joconnell

Yep - if you and your clients are happy with the end results then go for it. Personally it's not good enough for me at the minute - the compression / highlight handling in the quicktimes ain't good enough, plus I'm a vfx guy and the wobble on the shutter counts it out for tracking work.

darklandsfilm

Hey dude ive a xl2 your more than welcome to borrow it if your just doing day shoots
Im in cork though

Maurice

Mbyte

darklandsfilm wrote: »

Hey dude ive a xl2 your more than welcome to borrow it if your just doing day shoots
Im in cork though

Maurice

Sound man. I was in Cork for 5 months. I have no problems driving down there. I'll trade you my xl2 for yours :P It would be nice having two if I bought a PAL version. How do you find the XL2?