The Puroresu (Japanese Wrestling) thread

chopperbyrne

Surprised nobody's posting about Wrestle Kingdom 11.

Didn't get to watch it myself, but by all accounts it's supposed to be a damn good show.

Andersonisgod

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Surprised nobody's posting about Wrestle Kingdom 11.

Didn't get to watch it myself, but by all accounts it's supposed to be a damn good show.

I watched the whole thing, from pre show at 7am to the very end of a 48 minute main event. It was, I think, the best wrestling show I've ever seen and the main event was, again at this moment I think, the best wrestling match I've ever seen.

I don't want to get anyone's backs up and I understand the GMT time of the event isn't ideal and pro wrestling itself is a fairly niche hobby so Japanese pro wrestling is a niche within a niche. That being said the reason I didn't bother commenting about it on here is due to the total lack of interest shown both before and during the sho from users that frequent this Board. Say what you like, but to me a wrestling board where there is scant mention for the biggest wrestling show of the year not held under a WWE banner borders on embarrassing. I know that the majority of users on herd only watch WWE and that's fine, everybody has time constraints and real life gets in the way of things but the reality is that this is a WWE board and any attempt to discuss anything outside of the E is almost pointless.

LeeJM

I wouldnt go along with that at all. I would have watched this morning only for my broadband provider being a bag of pr*cks. I know BeakerJoe has watched NJPW in the past and Im sure some other regular posters have talked about Japanese wrestling previously. And while not watching this morning I was on Twitter all morning following along during the show and reading the opinions of the people I respect. From what I am reading the semi main of Naito Tanahashi was the best match on the show and the main event was very divisive. Also from all accounts I have seen the undercard was just there and nothing special at all. Once my broadband is sorted (hopefully this week) I will watch the show myself and give my own opinions on the show, but like I said from what I am reading to call this the greatest event of all time is very much OTT or else you have an inherent bias to anything NJPW.

Andersonisgod

LeeJM wrote: »

I wouldnt go along with that at all. I would have watched this morning only for my broadband provider being a bag of pr*cks. I know BeakerJoe has watched NJPW in the past and Im sure some other regular posters have talked about Japanese wrestling previously. And while not watching this morning I was on Twitter all morning following along during the show and reading the opinions of the people I respect. From what I am reading the semi main of Naito Tanahashi was the best match on the show and the main event was very divisive. Also from all accounts I have seen the undercard was just there and nothing special at all. Once my broadband is sorted (hopefully this week) I will watch the show myself and give my own opinions on the show, but like I said from what I am reading to call this the greatest event of all time is very much OTT or else you have an inherent bias to anything NJPW.

I'll only comment on the wrestling part of that. Nothing bad on the undercard, worst was only ok, best was the jr tag or heavyweight tag title matches, both of which could be 4 stars. The final 4 matches all begin at the 4 and a half star match and you could make a reasonable case for 2 of those being 5. All 4 main matches were different, all 4 told a story, all 4 had logical winners. Like I said, to me, the main event might be one of the best wrestling matches ever, certainly it's my favourite at least. Different strokes for different folks and all that but the quality and effort of both Okada and Omega is undeniable.

I watch a fair amount of pro wrestling, I follow NJPW more closely than any other promotion and so the stories told in those matches inevitably resonate a bit more.

Actually I'd also like to mention that I had the same broadband issues last year. Messed up Nakamura vs Styles for me (I'll never forgive it for that) changed broadband providers and I have to say the stream held up brilliant for me on NJPW World. Chromecasted it to my tv, not a single buffer, freeze or pause in almost 6 hours of viewing.

beakerjoe

I just havent gotten around to it yet myself. With the draft and work and my daughter (who I try not watch wrestling around at her impressionable age) its hard to find time.

That being said Im going to start watching now.

I agree that its majorly a WWE board here to a degree, but many on here love other grappling too. Myself, MNG, thebostoncrab, Bounty Hunter and others to name a few.

I dont keep up with NJPW as much as Id like to personally, and like you said for most its a niche within a niche. Id say most if not everyone here would be primarly a WWE fan first and others graps second mainly because we grew up with WWF and WWE and its easier to access than NJPW.

To say its an embarrassment is just ridiculous. It may be the best show ever, but I havent seen it yet and I will soon enough.

Andersonisgod

beakerjoe wrote: »

I just havent gotten around to it yet myself. With the draft and work and my daughter (who I try not watch wrestling around at her impressionable age) its hard to find time.

That being said Im going to start watching now.

I agree that its majorly a WWE board here to a degree, but many on here love other grappling too. Myself, MNG, thebostoncrab, Bounty Hunter and others to name a few.

I dont keep up with NJPW as much as Id like to personally, and like you said for most its a niche within a niche. Id say most if not everyone here would be primarly a WWE fan first and others graps second mainly because we grew up with WWF and WWE and its easier to access than NJPW.

To say its an embarrassment is just ridiculous. It may be the best show ever, but I havent seen it yet and I will soon enough.

I'd say even the lack of hype on here for it was crazy. I'm not sure there was more than 3 or 4 comments about it beforehand.

LeeJM

Andersonisgod wrote: »

LeeJM wrote: »

I wouldnt go along with that at all. I would have watched this morning only for my broadband provider being a bag of pr*cks. I know BeakerJoe has watched NJPW in the past and Im sure some other regular posters have talked about Japanese wrestling previously. And while not watching this morning I was on Twitter all morning following along during the show and reading the opinions of the people I respect. From what I am reading the semi main of Naito Tanahashi was the best match on the show and the main event was very divisive. Also from all accounts I have seen the undercard was just there and nothing special at all. Once my broadband is sorted (hopefully this week) I will watch the show myself and give my own opinions on the show, but like I said from what I am reading to call this the greatest event of all time is very much OTT or else you have an inherent bias to anything NJPW.

I'll only comment on the wrestling part of that. Nothing bad on the undercard, worst was only ok, best was the jr tag or heavyweight tag title matches, both of which could be 4 stars. The final 4 matches all begin at the 4 and a half star match and you could make a reasonable case for 2 of those being 5. All 4 main matches were different, all 4 told a story, all 4 had logical winners. Like I said, to me, the main event might be one of the best wrestling matches ever, certainly it's my favourite at least. Different strokes for different folks and all that but the quality and effort of both Okada and Omega is undeniable.

I watch a fair amount of pro wrestling, I follow NJPW more closely than any other promotion and so the stories told in those matches inevitably resonate a bit more.

Hey its all opinions. And I am not saying you are wrong just that your opinion would be in the minority from what I have seen thus far. I understand following NJ and thus being more invested, no harm in that but it would then follow to being biased towards NJ in your own rankings of events. Like I said no harm in this just dont take it as a personal shot at you. NYD tomorrow will tell us alot about where NJ are going this spring/summer. 

Any thoughts on the "G1" shows in LA? Personally I think they have gone at it half arsed and to use another cliche its like they are half pregnant. 2 showcase (read ; House shows) events are not gonna sell out a 13,000 capacity arena in LA. Feels very much like they have blown an opportunity to take a big shot at the US market at a time when the whole industry seems to shifting to a more global market

sky88

i actually watched the show as i was off today and to be honest it wasnt that special as a show overall. The main event for the first 15 mins was plodding along but then omega turned it on and put in a hell of a display.

i dont think it was even the best match on the show it goes to Naito vs Tanahashi for me. Great match and storytelling. For me i find it hard to watch a lot of NJPW as wwe and other companies evovle, progress are ahead in the line cause i find them more enjoyable to watch.

Not a shot at yourself anderson but NJPW always seems to get overhyped in general.

sky88

LeeJM wrote: »

Hey its all opinions. And I am not saying you are wrong just that your opinion would be in the minority from what I have seen thus far. I understand following NJ and thus being more invested, no harm in that but it would then follow to being biased towards NJ in your own rankings of events. Like I said no harm in this just dont take it as a personal shot at you. NYD tomorrow will tell us alot about where NJ are going this spring/summer. 

Any thoughts on the "G1" shows in LA? Personally I think they have gone at it half arsed and to use another cliche its like they are half pregnant. 2 showcase (read ; House shows) events are not gonna sell out a 13,000 capacity arena in LA. Feels very much like they have blown an opportunity to take a big shot at the US market at a time when the whole industry seems to shifting to a more global market[/QUOTE]

Seems a totally halfarsed job on this not to do a an actually G1 show as that would create interest and a buzz which i dont think showcases will. you wont get people travelling to LA to go see showcases.

I think vince showed in the 80s you have to be daring to expand.

Andersonisgod

LeeJM wrote: »

Hey its all opinions. And I am not saying you are wrong just that your opinion would be in the minority from what I have seen thus far. I understand following NJ and thus being more invested, no harm in that but it would then follow to being biased towards NJ in your own rankings of events. Like I said no harm in this just dont take it as a personal shot at you. NYD tomorrow will tell us alot about where NJ are going this spring/summer. 

Any thoughts on the "G1" shows in LA? Personally I think they have gone at it half arsed and to use another cliche its like they are half pregnant. 2 showcase (read ; House shows) events are not gonna sell out a 13,000 capacity arena in LA. Feels very much like they have blown an opportunity to take a big shot at the US market at a time when the whole industry seems to shifting to a more global market

That's fair enough, I'd never begrudge anyone an opinion on wrestling. My only point was that I didn't feel this show was talked about enough on this Board pre, during or post show.

Strange way of going about it alright. I do like the fact that they are promoting a show in America solo (rather than teaming up with ROH as has been the norm.) However I have doubts as to how well those 2 shows will do. Not being proper G1 shows is certainly a hit and running an arena that big in a market where their drawing power has not been properly tested is risky to say the least. That being said, a theme running through the show this morning was about NJPW going global and I do admire their sheet gumption. I hope it pays off, and I'd love for it to play a part in more eyes being on the product. Though I do think they could do more to help western fans watching to become more acclimatised.

Andersonisgod

sky88 wrote: »

i actually watched the show as i was off today and to be honest it wasnt that special as a show overall. The main event for the first 15 mins was plodding along but then omega turned it on and put in a hell of a display.

i dont think it was even the best match on the show it goes to Naito vs Tanahashi for me. Great match and storytelling. For me i find it hard to watch a lot of NJPW as wwe and other companies evovle, progress are ahead in the line cause i find them more enjoyable to watch.

Not a shot at yourself anderson but NJPW always seems to get overhyped in general.

Honestly that's fair enough. Wrestling is all opinions. To me it was a special show, much larger attendance than last years show, coming at the end of a year where people wrote off the company after the 4 guys left for WWE, only for NJPW to create new stars, a new feel and emerge stronger and this show felt like a celebration of that. I completely understand not everybody is as invested in NJPW to get that or that maybe it just didn't matter. In ring I thought it was a huge success.

Loved the semi main event too, the duel leg work, the selling, how beautifully the big spots were spaced out, that feeling that these 2 guys, despite representing 2 very different ideals, are very similar individuals. It's a great story, a great match.

I really enjoy Evolve too, and I watch WWE. I totally get that puro is very different to those 2 (and britwres like Progress) and everyone has their favourites. I'd absolutely never take it personally or fault you for preferring Evolve, WWE or Progress to NJPW, nor would I fault you. It's all wrestling, we're all fans of it in some form or another, enjoy it.

sky88

i thought i read on twitter the attendance was only a thousand than last year more no clue to be honest.

Honestly i think one of the reasons i dont watch a lot of Japanese wrestling is not understanding the commentary. its fine today with the english even if i have to listen to the dreadful kevin kelly. i almost find the Japanese commentary distracting as i start trying to figure it out. tbh i think thats more me than anyone else

Andersonisgod

sky88 wrote: »

i thought i read on twitter the attendance was only a thousand than last year more no clue to be honest.

Honestly i think one of the reasons i dont watch a lot of Japanese wrestling is not understanding the commentary. its fine today with the english even if i have to listen to the dreadful kevin kelly. i almost find the Japanese commentary distracting as i start trying to figure it out. tbh i think thats more me than anyone else

Not sure of the exact numbers in the difference but as far as I'm aware paid attendance was up a couple of thousand this year. Certainly the arena looked fuller this year and pre sale tickets were definitely up.

Ye the language barrier is tough to overcome admittedly. I've tried watching the English stream a couple of times when it's available but I can't, for me puroresu will always be associated with a middle aged, respectable looking Japanese man screaming at the top of his lungs down his headset, that's how I like my puro. I do think New Japan could do more to appease their English speaking fanbase, such as subtitling promos when their shows go up on VOD (which Stardom do) but I tend to overcome that by following bilingual speakers on Twitter, eg. Chris Charlton who was at the Dome today and translated Okada's post match promo.

DM_7

Embarrasing? Nice, that is a great way to stimulate conversation.

I don't bother discussing New Japan as its not easy to talk about. Feck all worth talking about happens. Did you seen that stiff elbow/kick? That 4/5 star match between insert names here was great.Conversation over.

WWE for example is easy as you end up talking about the stuff that annoys you.

Look at AJ styles, brilliant year for him but little to say other than 'that was great' as everything went so well overall. Back when he was losing to Jericho lots was posted about him as it looked like they may waste him.

den87

For those who have NJPW World- Can you pay with a debit card to watch? And would WK11 be up straight away?? Thanks

Andersonisgod

DM_7 wrote: »

Embarrasing? Nice, that is a great way to stimulate conversation.

I don't bother discussing New Japan as its not easy to talk about. Feck all worth talking about happens. Did you seen that stiff elbow/kick? That 4/5 star match between insert names here was great.Conversation over.

WWE for example is easy as you end up talking about the stuff that annoys you.

Look at AJ styles, brilliant year for him but little to say other than 'that was great' as everything went so well overall. Back when he was losing to Jericho lots was posted about him as it looked like they may waste him.

But that's utterly ridiculous. To me, that's the equivalent of saying "well Eastenders is better than Mad Men cos there's more to talk about" It's even more bizarre considering the main event of the Dome show today might be the most hotly debated match in recent memory. You could talk about what you thought of the match, story leading into the match and the part it played, where do both guys go from here, where does the match rank historically ect. Not to mention discussing the actual intricacies of the match and giving your own view of it. Yes, the storytelling is more subtle in puroresu but ultimately, I find at least, the payoffs are far greater.

Andersonisgod

den87 wrote: »

For those who have NJPW World- Can you pay with a debit card to watch? And would WK11 be up straight away?? Thanks

Ye you can, they also take paypal. It's not that bad a price considering the content you get. And yep, WK11 is up already with both English and Japanese feeds.

beakerjoe

den87 wrote: »

For those who have NJPW World- Can you pay with a debit card to watch? And would WK11 be up straight away?? Thanks

i use a Visa debt and Its fine. Think they use other secure payments as well like paypal. It will be up in both English and Japanese commentary too.

Andersonisgod

beakerjoe wrote: »

i use a Visa debt and Its fine. Think they use other secure payments as well like paypal. It will be up in both English and Japanese commentary too.

We are in sync.

beakerjoe

Andersonisgod wrote: »

We are in sync.

We are not, you've seen the show, Ive just watched the battle royal and the jr tag match. Im playing catch up

Andersonisgod

beakerjoe wrote: »

We are not, you've seen teh show, Ive just watched the battle royal and the jr tag match. Im playing catch up

Well now I hope I haven't spoiled anything. You are in for a treat though.

Also just for anyone new to this, New Japan's New Years Dash show is tomorrow morning from Korakuen Hall. It's basically New Japan's equivalent of the Raw after Wrestlemania. It's a super fun show with a very hot crowd that'll have a surprise or two and should set up the direction for the year. It's must see stuff.

beakerjoe

Had Suzuki down to win the Rambo, and it was what it was. Never expected much from it. They were fun to a point in previous years and this was no different. I did enjoy Billy Gunn and Elgin starting off as a visual. 2017 may be as wacky as 2016. Happy for Nagata, I wonder will anything happen for him as a result

Wasnt mad on Tiger Mask v TMD. Went and made a cuppa if Im honest as I had no interest

I may be suffering from overkill in relation to The Bucks and Vice. The match was full of what I expected, nice spots, superkicks, high spots. While it was fine, it just never got me going as Ive seen them plenty of times already. Still a good match.

beakerjoe

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well now I hope I haven't spoiled anything. You are in for a treat though.

Also just for anyone new to this, New Japan's New Years Dash show is tomorrow morning from Korakuen Hall. It's basically New Japan's equivalent of the Raw after Wrestlemania. It's a super fun show with a very hot crowd that'll have a surprise or two and should set up the direction for the year. It's must see stuff.

Sure we all know what happened last year with Nak and AJ..... who knows whats gonna happen.

DM_7

Main Event

The Dragon Suplex from the ropes was scary

Ali Bomaye

This was definitely up there as perhaps the greatest wrestling show I have ever watched. The top 4 matches all delivered and more, while the under card was solid. There was no match that was outright bad, and nothing dragged.

The pre show rumble was a bit of fun with the right winner and the opening match of main show was fine for what it was.

I really enjoyed the Jr tag match though it was nothing really special. Ospreay and Ricochet were great to watch as always during the the gauntlet, just a pity there was no interaction between the two.

Juice worked really hard against Cody. All Cody did was pull a few faces and shout at the English language commentary team. I thought the ROH title match was very good. Kyle O'Reilly is great and it was a good hard hitting match. The Heavyweight tag title match was probably the least enjoyable match on the card for me.

Takahashi vs Kushida was great stuff. I absolutely love the spot where Kushida catches his opponent in the cross arm breaker in mid air. A couple of botches in the match but in a way it adds to the match with Takahashi being a crazy man.

Shibata vs Goto was more great hard hitting stuff. The viciousness portrayed in this match was absolutely incredible. I didn't think it was near a 5 star classic but I absolutely loved it all the same.

Tanahashi vs Naito was a classic. It had me engrossed all the way through. Some great spots with both men working the knee.

Then the main event which was absolutely amazing. I couldn't believe it when I realised how long it went. I wasn't convinced at all by Omega until his match with Naito in the G1, and I was looking forward to this match ever since. I get that some people were bored by the first 20 or so minutes, as I often am by New Japan main events, but I loved every minute of it. Kenny Omega is an absolute madman with some of the spots he does. That back body drop through the table was absolutely insane. The last fifteen minutes had me jumping out of my seat a number of times. I've never got as emotionally invested in a wrestling match before. Also, I thought this match really showed the importance of protecting finishing moves in wrestling. I'm not sure there's anything more exciting in wrestling than when Okada is holding on to his opponent's wrist near the end of a match trying the hit the Rainmaker. Also, Omega has now had two of my favourite all time matches in the last six months.

ERG89

New Japan has done an amazing job the last year since losing Styles & Nakamura. Los Ingobernables de Japon are now the it thing, Elgin has been used superbly, as has Omega who had an awesome Terminator entrance btw. Even stuff like Gorillas of Destiny have been far better than I imagined. I could praise Tanahashi, Okada & Naito but feel I'd be covering old ground as they have been consistently excellent for years. Wish they'd just push Shibata to the moon tho.
Haven't watched too much since the G1 but I'll try watch the rest of this when I get time.

sky88

Forgot to mention how just terrible cody is. He's just become the most annoying wrestler since leaving wwe. Had to shake my head when corino said he was better then dusty and goldust. Unbelievable comment.

Juice on the other hand has become so much better from what I seen.

A Rogue Hobo

Fantastic show from top to bottom. I've watched the last 4 Wrestle Kingdoms and the last 3 in particular have just been outstanding and I think somehow New Japan outdid themselves again this year. Can't see any show topping it this year. When it comes to NJPW I guess I can be a bit of a fairweather fan, I usually just watch Wrestle Kingdom and New Years Dash and then try to find the final of the G1 later in the year. But I think this year I'm going to try and make a point of keeping up with it all year around.

DM_7

I really dislike the dropping people on their heads and necks. That is a general complaint but in puroresu its everywhere.

sky88

Agree totally there was a few times yesterday that was just scary.

dash seems to be a fun show from following it on twitter