Lenihan the damned/savior?

brianthebard

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Now I'm well aware this isn't after hours, and after having received a warning I'm not going to rise to that bait.

Point one: Country is in dire financial condition.

Point two: Taxpayer is unable to bridge the gap which will set us on the road to recovery.

Point three: Only option therefore is to cut public spending to bridge that gap.

Point four. Govt. commissioned Colm Mccarthy to produce a report which would identify savings which would try to bridge that gap

Point five: This report has now been produced and handed over to Govt.

Point 6: they should go ahead and implement it, as otherwise, in my opinion, we will end up bankrupt.


END.

There was no bait. Now while you've repeated yourself in a nicer fashion, you have only repeated yourself, not added anything new. And you've ignored the question again, which is Why must the report be implemented in full? Its underlined for emphasis.

FlutterinBantam

See point 6

FlutterinBantam

Riskymove wrote: »

point one: even the authors did not envisage all cuts being implemented, they are options

point two: these authors are not all-seeing, all-knowing; you don't have to agree blindly with every finding; there may be valid reasons for not doing somethings; they are only looking at it from economic viewpoint

I am well aware of that.

There are valid reasons not doing things indeed, like holding on to power at the next election.That's a valid reason,even though in economic terms it may be a tad disasterous:cool:

Riskymove

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

See point 6

so you think that ALL of the proposals must be implemented or else we'll be bankrupt....fine you are entitiled to your view

FlutterinBantam

Thank you.

Otherwise all we have is a slugfest of vested interests each fighting to maintain their position at the trough of plenty,where the strong prevail and the weak suffer.

Govt. paid for the report, Govt. got the report, go on and do the right thing-implement it.

amacca

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Thank you.

Otherwise all we have is a slugfest of vested interests each fighting to maintain their position at the trough of plenty,where the strong prevail and the weak suffer.

Govt. paid for the report, Govt. got the report, go on and do the right thing-implement it.

Implement all?

Wasn't the report supposed to be a menu? or was that just a placatory modification of the truth of the matter?

If it was supposed to be a menu, what restaurant would you go into and order everything from the menu despite the establishments reputation for culinary excellence.

Do you think every single last thing in the report will be implemented. The report identified areas where the government can make savings and I suppose I agree they should make savings but even the report itself has a disclaimer of sorts.....something to the effect that if you make savings in this area and in this fashion it may actually end up costing you more in the near future and Im not talking about social cost im talking actual moolah here.

I'm fairly certain they wont implement every single thing in the report exactly as it is laid down and Im fairly sure that this is not necessarily a bad thing.

Surely you must agree that a bit of informed debate would be a good thing?

FlutterinBantam

amacca wrote: »

Implement all?

Wasn't the report supposed to be a menu? or was that just a placatory modification of the truth of the matter?

If it was supposed to be a menu, what restaurant would you go into and order everything from the menu despite the establishments reputation for culinary excellence.

Do you think every single last thing in the report will be implemented. The report identified areas where the government can make savings and I suppose I agree they should make savings but even the report itself has a disclaimer of sorts.....something to the effect that if you make savings in this area and in this fashion it may actually end up costing you more in the near future and Im not talking about social cost im talking actual moolah here.

I'm fairly certain they wont implement every single thing in the report exactly as it is laid down and Im fairly sure that this is not necessarily a bad thing.

Surely you must agree that a bit of informed debate would be a good thing?

Look, of course not every single iota, but broadly speaking , i say again,broadly speaking, they paid the guy to produce the report, they should implement it .

The only reason for not taking action is political.

There is a head to head between Lenihan and George Lee up in Donegal this week, I can bet they won't agree on everything.

They probably won't agree on anything!!

That's politics.

Economics is a totally different discipline.

peasant

Riskymove wrote: »

so you think that ALL of the proposals must be implemented or else we'll be bankrupt....fine you are entitiled to your view

Emmm ...

Diameter of hole to be plugged = 20 billion

Diameter of proposed McCarthy plug = 5 billion



Any further questions?

brianthebard

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Look, of course not every single iota, but broadly speaking , i say again,broadly speaking, they paid the guy to produce the report, they should implement it .

You were quite clear earlier that the whole report should be implemented in full. Are you changing your mind now?

FlutterinBantam

Anyone with a modicum of common sense would realise that not every single iota of the report needs to be implemented.

It does need to be implemented in the broad sense, not degenerated into a PR war amongst the many vested interests.

action is what is needed now, not flowery speches by well supported groups as to their reasons for not taking a hit.

We elected politicians to run the country-go ahead and run it.

pot shot

i agree they run the trade unions as well o conor shud beshot

FlutterinBantam

I see total conflict in that statement.

FlutterinBantam

You see at the end of the day it's all about vested interests protecting their own patch.

All these vested interests will have no problem putting forward their point of view and how they are integral in the smooth running of local govt.

there are guys and gals out there who could "talk for Ireland" about their utter necessity in the smooth running of the country.

Now is not the time for that,in my opinion.

Time is for leadership and decision making, a quality sadly lacking in all our political masters and handlers!!!

Riskymove

peasant wrote: »

Emmm ...

Diameter of hole to be plugged = 20 billion

Diameter of proposed McCarthy plug = 5 billion



Any further questions?

very simplistic there, the McCarthy report is on cuts in Government expenditure (excluding pay), it was never intended to fill the gap completely

I don't believe we should should just get rid of everything suggested on economic grounds alone

irish_bob

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You see at the end of the day it's all about vested interests protecting their own patch.

All these vested interests will have no problem putting forward their point of view and how they are integral in the smooth running of local govt.

there are guys and gals out there who could "talk for Ireland" about their utter necessity in the smooth running of the country.

Now is not the time for that,in my opinion.

Time is for leadership and decision making, a quality sadly lacking in all our political masters and handlers!!!

indeed , the unions would have us believe that cuts in public service number mean a sick child will not get the proper care it needs when in reality the cuts propose are meant to focus on surplus to requirement pen pushers of which thier are thousands , the unions spin and lies must not go unchallenged , im talking to you RTE

FlutterinBantam

You already have the teachers playing the education card.

If they are so concerned about the children, take a pay cut.

But no,oh no, they are sacrosanct and vital to the future well being of the state, let some others take the cuts.

They are in virtually unsackable positions, have huge holidays good pensions, and they won't give an inch.

What part of crisis don't they understand I sometimes wonder.

irish_bob

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

You already have the teachers playing the education card.

If they are so concerned about the children, take a pay cut.

But no,oh no, they are sacrosanct and vital to the future well being of the state, let some others take the cuts.

They are in virtually unsackable positions, have huge holidays good pensions, and they won't give an inch.

What part of crisis don't they understand I sometimes wonder.

i personally am prepared to take part in counter marches to what the unions may have planned , i didnt tick a box which had that power monger jack o connors name in it at any election , i wont see my country dragged down because of demagogues like him