Would a Resident DJ's Club Night Work?

jonny68

Over the years ive noticed a trend towards big name "superstar" DJ's or whatever DJ is in "vogue" at present, this wasn't always the case, Sides DC Ireland's first and IMO undoubtely greatest ever dance club rarely ever had big name guest DJ's appear,and was mostly a residents DJ's club,any guests were generally other Dublin based DJ's ,yet for years remained immensely popular,and at the very forefront of dance music in Dublin and indeed Ireland while other clubs used to book International DJ's, my question is, could this ever work again,whereas a club night could maintain it's popularity and continue to thrive in todays dance scene by just having residents and occasionaly local guest DJ's and not paying stupid money for International DJ's?

Unfortunately IMO, i don't believe it could,as i think too many people are into the big names and whoever is in "vogue" at present, interested to hear what people think.

FLYNN-DOG

With the amount of international talent coming over right now, I'd have to say no. Pith though. People are so quick to jump on the bandwagon - i remember in college girls loving felix da housecat despite the fact he's irrelevant about 10 years now.....pisses me off tbh

jtsuited

there's a certain irony here jonny.

big name producers/djs have to play a lot to make a living these days because filesharing has hit record sales so much.

and when they're around you can't compete with an unknown resident dj. And since they're always around, people tend to go see them because they know what to expect.

jonny68

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

With the amount of international talent coming over right now, I'd have to say no. Pith though. People are so quick to jump on the bandwagon - i remember in college girls loving felix da housecat despite the fact he's irrelevant about 10 years now.....pisses me off tbh

Felix Da Housecat still plays out though and has released a few albums in the last few years has he not?

I agree though it is a shame and people are too quick to jump on bandwagons, some of the best ever nights ive had haven't actually been at some "superstar" DJ's but resident DJ's but it's all to do with hype thesedays!

FLYNN-DOG

The days of a "dj" being successful are well over, with the exception of say, Eddie Halliwell and (to an extent) Erol Alkan, I can't think of any Dj's who don't produce who bring the crowd in....certainly not ant Irish ones. I was actually thinking of starting a thread entitled 'What era of dance music would you most like to be a part of'....as in '
1) Late 80's - Hacienda days
2) Late 90's - Trance days
3) Present day - minimal days

I'll put it up later.....though I'd imagine people will be biased towards their own time period....

Executive Steve

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

With the amount of international talent coming over right now, I'd have to say no. Pith though. People are so quick to jump on the bandwagon - i remember in college girls loving felix da housecat despite the fact he's irrelevant about 10 years now.....pisses me off tbh

Surely if those girls love Felix that much despite his being irrelevant then that just proves they're resistant to bandwagons?

Executive Steve

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

The days of a "dj" being successful are well over, with the exception of say, Eddie Halliwell and (to an extent) Erol Alkan, I can't think of any Dj's who don't produce who bring the crowd in....certainly not ant Irish ones. I was actually thinking of starting a thread entitled 'What era of dance music would you most like to be a part of'....as in '
1) Late 80's - Hacienda days
2) Late 90's - Trance days
3) Present day - minimal days

I'll put it up later.....though I'd imagine people will be biased towards their own time period....

I can think of a good few actually... None of them are less than a decade deep in the game though...

Executive Steve

But yes, all resident nights can definitely work, but it takes time to get a night established enough to the stage that you can run a night and not book a headliner, you'd normally want to get enough of a buzz about what you do in order to get a regular crowd of people to show up no matter who was playing, and you'd want to do it in the smaller clubs.

seannash

this thread is just another way for johnny to remind us of how good it was back in the day:rolleyes:

no a residents club cant survive because people want to see there dj heroes and favourite producers.

its almost like saying would you rather see a cover band than the real band.

but yeah continue with the back in the day bull**** and how sides was at the forefront:p

seannash

also what is the big deal if a producer is "in vogue"

if hes making good music and getting recognition why do people automatically think people are on a bandwagon.

if the music you liked came back "in vogue"would you feel like a bandwagon jumper.


we all know that johnny is not happy with how popular minimal and tech house is compared to the stuff he listens to but people arent into it because its cool,some people actually like it.

when it does become a bit more popular people get exposed to it where as before they were oblivious to it.but if someone suddenly develops an interest there only into it because its in vogue,not because theyve never been exposed to it before,right?

for someone who claimed to love the fact that at a rave back in the day you could hear all sorts of dance music your pretty small minded when it comes to genres that dont appeal to you.

but im just a bandwagon jumper so what would i know

BaZmO*

Just on the subject of Sides. I know the guy that started off Sides (pity I didn't know him at the time ) and I was talking to him a while back about how he used to book DJs and he was saying that DJs were always an after thought and that if he could've gotten away with it he wouldn't have paid them at all. So that probably explains why there weren't too many big name DJs that played there.

Also, when Sides opened first the Cult of the Superstar DJ hadn't reached reached the dizzy heights it would eventually reach so booking a "Big Name" DJ wasn't a requirement to have a successful night from a promoters point of view. The same would have been true in the UK in the early days, the likes of Sasha, Digweed, Oakenfold, Tong, etc. at one time would not have been considered "Big Names"

gsparx

I don't think there's any doubt that a fairly high percentage of people who have no idea what kind of music a certain DJ spins will end up queuing up, spending €25 on a DJ whose name happened to creep into the mainstream (maybe he did the latest coke ad).
In some ways that's inevitable and fair enough, everyone has some kind of curiosity as to what's going on currently. Then there's another group who might have all the releases and are big fans of said DJ. There's always going to be a mix at the bigger gigs.
On the other hand Sides was around near the start of whole clubbing scene and I think the emphasis was on getting off your head and dancing to some house/ techno tunes. I could be wrong but I don't necessarily think that's the case anymore.
Both big name producer DJ gigs and the local smaller gigs are relevant and in an ideal world both would thrive, just like a local band scene and bigger concerts.

jonny68

BaZmO* wrote: »

Just on the subject of Sides. I know the guy that started off Sides (pity I didn't know him at the time ) and I was talking to him a while back about how he used to book DJs and he was saying that DJs were always an after thought and that if he could've gotten away with it he wouldn't have paid them at all. So that probably explains why there weren't too many big name DJs that played there.

Also, when Sides opened first the Cult of the Superstar DJ hadn't reached reached the dizzy heights it would eventually reach so booking a "Big Name" DJ wasn't a requirement to have a successful night from a promoters point of view. The same would have been true in the UK in the early days, the likes of Sasha, Digweed, Oakenfold, Tong, etc. at one time would not have been considered "Big Names"

That's not true, other Dublin clubs in the early/mid 1990's most notably the Temple Of Sound, The POD, The Kitchen and The Ormond Multimedia Centre all booked big International DJ's and acts,who even back then commanded big fees, the Point Depot had a number of large Raves like Carl Cox and Orbital on the same bill one Friday and Goldie Presents Metalheadz on the Sunday (possibly the greatest weekend ive ever had)

Sides and maybe The Olympic Ballroom and The Asylum were uniquein the sense that it was mostly resident DJ's but week in,week out those places were packed and the atmosphere was always brilliant (certainly in Sides anyway)

MikeHoncho

jonny68 wrote: »

Sides and maybe The Olympic Ballroom and The Asylum were uniquein the sense that it was mostly resident DJ's but week in,week out those places were packed and the atmosphere was always brilliant (certainly in Sides anyway)

Do you think that might be down to the lack of options though. On a Friday night in Dublin now there is probably 15 - 20 "Dance" nights on. Back in your day there was only 3 or 4 so it was much easier to pack the places out. Now the crowd is much more dispersed around different venues.

I wish there was something like what you describe though Johnny I think when Pogo first started in Pod thats the closest I will ever get to that type of experience. It really was great for a while. Then when it became the place to be seen it lost it a bit. Some of the best nights I was at in there were resident nights too. Barry Redsetta tearing the place up.

Still like some of the nights Bodytonic have in Twisted Pepper. Sometimes the residents in the other room really outshine the big names.

jonny68

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Do you think that might be down to the lack of options though. On a Friday night in Dublin now there is probably 15 - 20 "Dance" nights on. Back in your day there was only 3 or 4 so it was much easier to pack the places out. Now the crowd is much more dispersed around different venues.

I wish there was something like what you describe though Johnny I think when Pogo first started in Pod thats the closest I will ever get to that type of experience. It really was great for a while. Then when it became the place to be seen it lost it a bit. Some of the best nights I was at in there were resident nights too. Barry Redsetta tearing the place up.

Still like some of the nights Bodytonic have in Twisted Pepper. Sometimes the residents in the other room really outshine the big names.

Not technically true mate, there was as many if not more club nights on then, heres just some examples.

Sides
The Asylum
The Ormond Multimedia Centre
Temple Of Sound
The Waterfront/Columbia Mills
The Olympic Ballroom
The POD
The Kitchen
The Shaft
The Funnel
The Harp/Tin Pan Alley

There were others as well but those would probably be the main ones

BaZmO*

jonny68 wrote: »

That's not true, other Dublin clubs in the early/mid 1990's most notably the Temple Of Sound, The POD, The Kitchen and The Ormond Multimedia Centre all booked big International DJ's and acts,who even back then commanded big fees, the Point Depot had a number of large Raves like Carl Cox and Orbital on the same bill one Friday and Goldie Presents Metalheadz on the Sunday (possibly the greatest weekend ive ever had)

Sides and maybe The Olympic Ballroom and The Asylum were uniquein the sense that it was mostly resident DJ's but week in,week out those places were packed and the atmosphere was always brilliant (certainly in Sides anyway)

Not true in what sense? You highlighted a large section of my post.

In the early days it wasn't that necessary for a club to book a big name DJ, most just relied on their residents and when they did book a name DJ it was mainly because the DJ actually played a style that was in line with the resident DJ's style. And the big Raves that you mentioned don't really count as they were one off events, and in fairness, you only named one DJ. The cult of the DJ hadn't reached it's pinnacle yet in the early 90's.

francois

BaZmO* wrote: »

In the early days it wasn't that necessary for a club to book a big name DJ, most just relied on their residents and when they did book a name DJ it was mainly because the DJ actually played a style that was in line with the resident DJ's style.

Very true, thats what ourselves and TOS did (unless of course you thought Steve Bicknell was a big name

[/QUOTE] The cult of the DJ hadn't reached it's pinnacle yet in the early 90's.[/QUOTE]

The worst excess of that was the millenium new years eve bashes, clubs charging crazy money in-put a lot of people off going to the whole "superclub" thing

BaZmO*

francois wrote: »

The worst excess of that was the millenium new years eve bashes, clubs charging crazy money in-put a lot of people off going to the whole "superclub" thing

There was a great piece in FHM or Loaded (can't remember which one but it's usually one or the other whenever I'm flying somewhere!) about the Millennium rip-off being the death knell of the Superstar DJ as we'd known it up to that point. Can't remember how much they said some of the big names were getting for a 2 hour set but it was mad money.
Funny thing is, most nights ended up being a flop due numerous reasons like punters not being willing to pay ridiculous entry fees, DJs getting stuck in traffic, etc. etc.

I actually organised a party and DJ'ed at it that night. Great night actually........well until the guy that owned the house went absolutely mental, but that's mushies for ya!

francois

if memory serves Coxy got STG£200,000 to do 2 gigs that night

jonny68

BaZmO* wrote: »

Not true in what sense? You highlighted a large section of my post.

In the early days it wasn't that necessary for a club to book a big name DJ, most just relied on their residents and when they did book a name DJ it was mainly because the DJ actually played a style that was in line with the resident DJ's style. And the big Raves that you mentioned don't really count as they were one off events, and in fairness, you only named one DJ. The cult of the DJ hadn't reached it's pinnacle yet in the early 90's.

The likes of Carl Cox, Paul Oakenfold and Sasha & Digweed even back then commanded huge fees anywhere they played Dublin included,even back then the clubs i mentioned used to book big name DJ's (although not as much as they do now)sure resident DJ's even thesedays play similar styles as the big name DJ's they are into so nothing has changed there either!

disssco

seannash wrote: »

also what is the big deal if a producer is "in vogue"

if hes making good music and getting recognition why do people automatically think people are on a bandwagon.

if the music you liked came back "in vogue"would you feel like a bandwagon jumper.


we all know that johnny is not happy with how popular minimal and tech house is compared to the stuff he listens to but people arent into it because its cool,some people actually like it.

when it does become a bit more popular people get exposed to it where as before they were oblivious to it.but if someone suddenly develops an interest there only into it because its in vogue,not because theyve never been exposed to it before,right?

for someone who claimed to love the fact that at a rave back in the day you could hear all sorts of dance music your pretty small minded when it comes to genres that dont appeal to you.

but im just a bandwagon jumper so what would i know

I think the point hes trying to make is that it was better in "the old days" because when the same djs played and the audience comprised of regulars a family atmosphere was born and going to see a resident dj was more that going to dance and listen to music.

This is the way I imagine the whole rave thing was back in the day. I like big names and seeing fresh talent but I think we're missing out on a lot without that friendly vibe at the venue.

Daroxtar

I see Peaches Geldof is being flown in to DJ at the opening of the new club in Swords. Now pardon my cynicism but i reckon the place will be packed to the rafters with sad Gobsh!tes with their tongues hanging out dribbling because some english dog who gets her pic in the Sun is there. You'll also get half starved anti social bitches with badly applied fake tan hovering about with pouts attempting to get their pic in the Sun. Nowhere do i see a mention of the house resident or any other dj, just this attention seeking trollop. Full house..happy management. No club owner really gives a sh!t about talent, they just want a crowd.

Executive Steve

disssco wrote: »

I think the point hes trying to make is that it was better in "the old days" because when the same djs played and the audience comprised of regulars a family atmosphere was born and going to see a resident dj was more that going to dance and listen to music.

This is the way I imagine the whole rave thing was back in the day. I like big names and seeing fresh talent but I think we're missing out on a lot without that friendly vibe at the venue.

Well that pretty much IS how it is for us, based on the crowds down in the Twisted Pepper of a Friday, that place has a pretty loyal crowd and as a result promoters there have the luxury of a certain degree of freedom in terms of bookings, as well as a whopper soundsystem and management who actually know what it takes to run a club well...

Where are you guys all going if you're going to places that have huge names and **** unfriendly crowds? Vote with your feet! Why pay 35 euro to see some superstar in a shed when you can go see next year's superstar as well as all the local heads who know from experience what goes down well at their nights and are playing on a setup they know really well, costs less than half the price, has the better crowd, and give you the satisfaction of knowing you're supporting someone who is all about the music?

acman

Daroxtar wrote: »

I see Peaches Geldof is being flown in to DJ at the opening of the new club in Swords. Now pardon my cynicism but i reckon the place will be packed to the rafters with sad Gobsh!tes with their tongues hanging out dribbling because some english dog who gets her pic in the Sun is there. You'll also get half starved anti social bitches with badly applied fake tan hovering about with pouts attempting to get their pic in the Sun. Nowhere do i see a mention of the house resident or any other dj, just this attention seeking trollop. Full house..happy management. No club owner really gives a sh!t about talent, they just want a crowd.

I just googled Peaches Geldof (had no idea who she was) and cannot believe that somebody would hire her to appear in a club...have people no shame?

When will club owners get it through their heads that clubs are for MUSIC AND DANCE...not a last resort venue to get more drunk cos the bars close at 11.30.

The way I see it, most "Clubs" in Ireland are nothing more than large discobars...therefore there is no necessity for DJ's of any kind because they could simply be replaced by the latest Smash Hits compilation.

/rant

As for the clubs who do employ a decent music policy, there is a list a mile long of DJ's who want to get in...which leads to an unhealthy amount of competition and inevitably destroys that "friendly" resident DJ atmosphere.

jtsuited

The unfortunate thing about all that Peaches Geldof nonsense is that there is a substantial demand for it.

Just like there is a substantial for sh1te movies, sh1te TV, atrocious literature (think of how the bestseller lists are dominated by chick-lit) and just general sh1te.

And to be fair (think I mentioned this in conversation with acman the other day), if dubfire, josh wink, etc. were playing in a super-club in an industrial estate in Swords, it'd be a right pain in the ass to get to/from, and wouldn't be the best experience anywho.

Fcuk it, let the plebs have their shiny sh1tty clubs away from the city. The more of these that pop up on the outskirts of dublin the better as it'll keep the demand for sh1te out of the city centre.

The majority of people (and it's unfortunate that it is the majority) don't have a friggin clue when it comes to the arts (whether it be music, cinema, books, etc.). It's always been this way and it's not going to change.

I do understand Acman's complaint about real clubs having an endless queue of dj's begging to play, but that's just the inevitable saturated market situation that results from djing's popularity boom in the past 10 years.

As we all know by now, it's a dj's production output and profile that decides his/her success nowadays (whether that be a good thing or bad thing is a totally different debate).

acman

jtsuited wrote: »

Fcuk it, let the plebs have their shiny sh1tty clubs away from the city. The more of these that pop up on the outskirts of dublin the better as it'll keep the demand for sh1te out of the city centre.

Haha, that's a positive way to look at it

DUB1

jonny68 wrote: »

The likes of Carl Cox, Paul Oakenfold and Sasha & Digweed even back then commanded huge fees anywhere they played Dublin included,even back then the clubs i mentioned used to book big name DJ's (although not as much as they do now)sure resident DJ's even thesedays play similar styles as the big name DJ's they are into so nothing has changed there either!

Carl cox got 3000 for playing the asylum in 93 but then again carl cox was already a legend back then ffs the man was mixing on 3decks in 89

I rember at the Millennium dj's lik brandan blox and alex p were geting 25,000 a set and were playing more than 2 setsx that nite it became ridiclus

Cray92

Sides always had big name Djs playing,i can remember when ken kane was running the place darren emerson,paul oakenfold playing there.I know she was a bit cheesy but i can remember rosella(everybodys free) doin a live pa there,she was massive at the time,supporting michael jackson in lansdowne rd then headin down to sides later that nite to do a set,summer of 92.Sides went more resident when it reopened as gravity with mick walsh and pat hyland,the only guests you got were pressure and jay carey etc.

jonny68

disssco wrote: »

I think the point hes trying to make is that it was better in "the old days" because when the same djs played and the audience comprised of regulars a family atmosphere was born and going to see a resident dj was more that going to dance and listen to music.

This is the way I imagine the whole rave thing was back in the day. I like big names and seeing fresh talent but I think we're missing out on a lot without that friendly vibe at the venue.

everyone knows it was better back in the day but that is not what this thread is about, i merley asked a question and it appears that most reckon a resident only club night would be unworkable.

jonny68

we all know that johnny is not happy with how popular minimal and tech house is compared to the stuff he listens to but people arent into it because its cool,some people actually like it.

seen this comment as it was quoted by someone else, the "stuff" i listen to as most know thesedays is Funky/Soulful/Deep House and those styles are very very popular, and if the poster means old skool, well if that music wasn't still popular why are there Old Skool nights on a weekly basis across Ireland and to a bigger extent the UK?

jtsuited

jonny68 wrote: »

seen this comment as it was quoted by someone else, the "stuff" i listen to as most know thesedays is Funky/Soulful/Deep House and those styles are very very popular, and if the poster means old skool, well if that music wasn't still popular why are there Old Skool nights on a weekly basis across Ireland and to a bigger extent the UK?

1. Any track you have posted here in the past three months could not be described as popular whatsoever. What you do is post awful awful cheesy house and call it funky/soulful.

2. Just like the Hardcore Breaks scene which is a figment of your imagination, to describe Old skool as popular compared to the likes of tech-house and minimal is silly. All inside your head.

3. Your opinion on what is popular is completely and utterly warped considering every summer you talk of the resurgence of 'uplifting piano house' in Ibiza. And yet you have no evidence to back it up.

4. You also didn't know who Len Faki was and had not heard of Berghain, which suggests you are completely removed from dance music so much that your opinion on what's popular is discredited beyond belief.

Honest to God, the parallel reality you are living in is fascinating.

aidan kelly

I think if you look into the history of dance music, the "legendary" clubs became legendary because of the residencies that the DJ's held at them - notable international (and local) examples include:

Ron Hardy at the Music Box
Larry Levan at the Paradise Garage
Junior Vasquez at the Sound Factory
Nicky Siano at the Gallery
Danny Krivit, Joe Claussell and Francois K at Body & Soul
Oakenfold at Cream
Rampling at Shoom
Sasha at Shelleys
Mike Pickering at the Hacienda
Harvey at Ministry of Sound
Greg and Shane at Sir Henries
Francois at UFO
Pat and Mick at Sides

The one common thread amongst all of these clubs is the residents - their track selection, their set programming, their creation of certain "anthems" which made sense only in the context of their nights, and their building up of a following amongst an audience. I cannot think of even one club night in Dublin that has what I would describe as a proper DJ residency - as in the same couple of DJ's (not a huge group of DJ's) who play to a crowd, week-in, week-out. It's true that there are plenty of successful club nights in Dublin for sure, but I don't think there are any true DJ residencies left, and it's a complete shame in my view. The reasons for this are the following:

1. The structure of how gigs are promoted in Dublin has changed irrevocably in the past 5-10 years. While in the "old days", promoters were independent to the DJ's who played at their clubs, nowadays the promoters usually are the DJ's - so that bit of objective distance that's required to separate great DJ's from average DJ's (and Ken Kane was most certainly one of those great promoters) is essentially gone. Most promoters have a roster of their friends DJing - sure it gives more people "a go", but it doesn't create a residency in my view. I think it's a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth these days.

2. With such wide availability of music, it's increasingly easy to be a DJ these days. Back in the day, there was a huge investment of time, money, energy, and skill, but it's far easier for anyone to be a DJ right now. Hence the market is flooded with DJ's, with little quality control on who mans the turntables as it's essentially a cartel industry these days (that isn't to say I don't respect some of the promoters I'm talking about, just to say it's led to a demise of the resident DJ).

3. Punters are increasingly fussy about who they'll go to see. It's quite hard to get a crowd with Irish-only DJ's, but this is as much a fault of the promoters as the crowd. If you are going to have a "residents mostly" policy, your night really should be providing a reason for people to come back - great music, excellent sound, good lighting, door policy, generating noise around your night - the promoters back in the old days were actually really good at doing this, and could teach some of our kids some old tricks.

But to answer your question, the answer is it depends. It depends on who the residents are, whether they are in fact good DJ's, whether they play good music, whether they can keep a crowd entertained on a weekly basis, whether the night is promoted effectively and whether the punters are given a reason to return every week. If these elements are in place, I think it can definitely work, but the big-name obsessed way the dance scene is gone lately, I think the chances are probably against it sadly.