Call me Cynical

orourkeda

deisedevil wrote: »

Football fan does not mean you must support an LOI team. You can be a fanatic of football in general without having to be a fanatic of one team only.

It means you support football not turn up to watch the big names every once in a while

eddiehead

orourkeda wrote: »

You say that their opponents are irrelevant. The reason i started this thread was to suggest that the opponents are not irrelevant. They just happen to be Irelands most successful football club.

Of course the opponents are irrelevant, you questioned where the 11,000 came from and I said they would get the same response anywhere, which is true. The majority are simply neutrals, there to see Madrid, they don't owe Rovers anything. Be it Bohs, Shels, Derry it doesn't matter, Madrid will attract a capacity crowd and lots of them will be neutrals.

Jayob10

deisedevil wrote: »

Your not much of a football fan in general then. Just blindly following the one team with no real interest in football, just like the feeling of belonging to something. That's obviously why you can't understand people wanting to see some of the best footballers on the planet then.

So if you are such a football fan in general why don't you go and watch some eircom league football regularly?

do you go to many games in england?

orourkeda

Jayob10 wrote: »

i'm pretty much agreeing with you mate, the term "football fan" is used very loosely here.
This is the irish "football fan", probably mainly Man Utd fanatics in the pub on a saturday/sunday who won't visit Tallaght for a game ever again.

Thats the type of fan I want to see kept as far away from a novelty exhibition like this. A great spectacle to see such great players yes. But such a privilege should be extended to fans who genuinely support irish football year in year out.
Maybe when this casual fan cannot get tickets for a glamour game like this it will make him wonder why. It might even encourage a bit of future loyalty.

Thanks. Youre probably the only person who doesnt think i'm some kind of idiot. You would like to think some kind of loyalty might be inspired but we'll just have to wait and see

Xavi6

orourkeda wrote: »

It means you support football not turn up to watch the big names every once in a while

So if every non-Rovers fan that went to the game also went to see Cherry Orchard under 12s on Sunday it'd be ok?

Jayob10

orourkeda wrote: »

It means you support football not turn up to watch the big names every once in a while

this comment pretty much hits the nail on the head

orourkeda

eddiehead wrote: »

Of course the opponents are irrelevant, you questioned where the 11,000 came from and I said they would get the same response anywhere, which is true. The majority are simply neutrals, there to see Madrid, they don't owe Rovers anything. Be it Bohs, Shels, Derry it doesn't matter, Madrid will attract a capacity crowd and lots of them will be neutrals.

OK. If they played Manchester United, A.C Milan, Juventus, Ajax, Barcelona or Inter in a friendly would you consider their opposition irrelevant or are you just intent on poo pooing clubs that dont play to th esame standard

SectionF

deisedevil wrote: »

Football fan does not mean you must support an LOI team. You can be a fanatic of football in general without having to be a fanatic of one team only.

Most football fans would be more interested in genuine competition, as in the Bohs-Salzburg Champions' League game, rather than an exhibition game. But it is the 'glamour friendly' that is getting all the publicity, and not in the sports sections either. This is celebrity culture, not football culture.

orourkeda

Xavi6 wrote: »

So if every non-Rovers fan that went to the game also went to see Cherry Orchard under 12s on Sunday it'd be ok?

Is this ever going to happen?

dfx-

orourkeda wrote: »

Is it not better to have more arses on seats regularly

Sellings of half season tickets, sponsorship, club shop sales and "brand awareness" whatever that is. Rovers are getting a set fee, so no matter how many turn up, it doesn't make much difference to Rovers.

orourkeda

SectionF wrote: »

Most football fans would be more interested in genuine competition, as in the Bohs-Salzburg Champions' League game, rather than an exhibition game. But it is the 'glamour friendly' that is getting all the publicity, and not in the sports sections either. This is celebrity culture, not football culture.

Judging by this thread this may not be true.

orourkeda

dfx- wrote: »

Sellings of half season tickets, sponsorship, club shop sales and "brand awareness" whatever that is. Rovers are getting a set fee, so no matter how many turn up, it doesn't make much difference to Rovers.

Thats for one match. What about next season

Xavi6

orourkeda wrote: »

Is this ever going to happen?

It's about as likely as the whole crowd at a game like tonight's ever being Rovers' fans.

Ideally it'd be fantastic if everyone was there in green and white creating an atmosphere but it's just not the reality. No point moaning about it, just let those who do go enjoy no matter who they support.

I'm sure Rovers would prefer a sold out stadium littered with daytrippers than a half full ground with only diehards. The latter would be more embarrassing imo.

eddiehead

orourkeda wrote: »

OK. If they played Manchester United, A.C Milan, Juventus, Ajax, Barcelona or Inter in a friendly would you consider their opposition irrelevant or are you just intent on poo pooing clubs that dont play to th esame standard

WTF?

If they played any of those clubs they would also get a massive crowd, so yes, opposition is irrelevant. Who's "poo pooing" clubs of a lesser standard here?

orourkeda

Why is opposition irrelevant? Why dont 11000 people pay 60 Euro to watch the training sessions if opposition is so unimportant.

dfx-

orourkeda wrote: »

Thats for one match.

...

dfx- wrote: »

Sellings of half season tickets

orourkeda

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's about as likely as the whole crowd at a game like tonight's ever being Rovers' fans.

Ideally it'd be fantastic if everyone was there in green and white creating an atmosphere but it's just not the reality. No point moaning about it, just let those who do go enjoy no matter who they support.

I'm sure Rovers would prefer a sold out stadium littered with daytrippers than a half full ground with only diehards. The latter would be more embarrassing imo.

Every home league game is a half ground full of die hards. (It was up until this season)

DSB

Totally agree with the OP, the event junkies in this country are hilarious, Ronaldo is here, so suddenly they like live football. But when Newcastle were here that attendance just wasn't the same, Leeds the same, and these are huge clubs who have fallen to the wayside, but still have some top top players so its really not about the standard of football, the standard of football with those clubs is very high. But because Ronaldo is playing his first game over here, the event junkies swarm like flies.

To be honest I've no problem with it, its the same with big rugby games, GAA games, anything thats given enough hype, the people will swarm. But its the idea that these people consider themselves real genuine football fans, yet at the same time referring to football as a product. It shouldn't bug me, I should be able to laugh it off and not care, but its definitely one of those things that bugs me, I hate seeing people claim to be things they are not.

orourkeda

dfx- wrote: »

...

Are you suggesting that everybody who bought a half season ticket will turn up every week

Xavi6

orourkeda wrote: »

Every home league game is a half ground full of die hards. (It was up until this season)

Yes but with all due respect to the club and the league, it would be a bit of a joke if 11,000 couldn't show up for Real Madrid. It's a bit more exciting than Sligo on a cold Friday night, and that's what it comes down to.

TonyD79

What top players were playing for Leeds and Newcastle recently??

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Totally agree with the OP, the event junkies in this country are hilarious, Ronaldo is here, so suddenly they like live football. But when Newcastle were here that attendance just wasn't the same, Leeds the same, and these are huge clubs who have fallen to the wayside, but still have some top top players so its really not about the standard of football, the standard of football with those clubs is very high. But because Ronaldo is playing his first game over here, the event junkies swarm like flies.

To be honest I've no problem with it, its the same with big rugby games, GAA games, anything thats given enough hype, the people will swarm. But its the idea that these people consider themselves real genuine football fans, yet at the same time referring to football as a product. It shouldn't bug me, I should be able to laugh it off and not care, but its definitely one of those things that bugs me, I hate seeing people claim to be things they are not.

Thanks. It extends beyond sporting events too. Remember what the Ireland football team was like before Jack Charlton. Anyone remember what Leinster and Munster Rugby Games were like before the Heineken Cup. Nothing like a good old Irish bandwagon

dfx-

orourkeda wrote: »

Are you suggesting that everybody who bought a half season ticket will turn up every week

They can turn up if they like, but they've paid either way. I haven't been to every game at home this season with a season ticket. And certainly not last season.

DSB

orourkeda wrote: »

Thanks. It extends beyond sporting events too. Remember what the Ireland football team was like before Jack Charlton. Anyone remember what Leinster and Munster Rugby Games were like before the Heineken Cup. Nothing like a good old Irish bandwagon

Out of interest, do you support a LOI team yourself?

orourkeda

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yes but with all due respect to the club and the league, it would be a bit of a joke if 11,000 couldn't show up for Real Madrid. It's a bit more exciting than Sligo on a cold Friday night, and that's what it comes down to.

Just dont use the word fan in the same sentence as these people.

Xavi6

TonyD79 wrote: »

What top players were playing for Leeds and Newcastle recently??

In fairness Newcastle had a full squad over, and the bulk of them played in the Premiership last season.

orourkeda

eddiehead wrote: »

WTF?

If they played any of those clubs they would also get a massive crowd, so yes, opposition is irrelevant. Who's "poo pooing" clubs of a lesser standard here?

Is dismissing the opposition as irrelevant some sort of compliment

DSB

TonyD79 wrote: »

What top players were playing for Leeds and Newcastle recently??

Michael Owen, Joey Barton, Jermaine Beckford, Fabian Delph, Obafemi Martins.

I understand these aren't the same level as Ronaldo, Kaka etc. but if players of that quality aren't good enough for people to come to live football here, then what chance is there of that ever happening? I mean cmon football does exist outside Real Madrid, Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona, and now Man City.

Xavi6

orourkeda wrote: »

Just dont use the word fan in the same sentence as these people.

So would I, a Shels and Man City fan, be welcome according to your entry criteria?

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Michael Owen, Joey Barton, Jermaine Beckford, Fabian Delph, Obafemi Martins.

I understand these aren't the same level as Ronaldo, Kaka etc. but if players of that quality aren't good enough for people to come to live football here, then what chance is there of that ever happening? I mean cmon football does exist outside Real Madrid, Man United, Chelsea, Barcelona, and now Man City.

Leeds were good enough when they were playing Real Madrid, Barcelona, A.C Milan and Valencia in recent times

DSB

Xavi6 wrote: »

So would I, a Shels and Man City fan, be welcome according to your entry criteria?

What are you talking about, entry criteria? The problem is the exact opposite.

orourkeda

Xavi6 wrote: »

So would I, a Shels and Man City fan, be welcome according to your entry criteria?

I've never suggested entry criteria

eddiehead

orourkeda wrote: »

Is dismissing the opposition as irrelevant some sort of compliment

Wow, you're really doing your best to start the old EPL LOI pissing contest aren't ya. read my posts again and come back to me when you figured out what I meant when I said irrelevant. If I have to explain this to you again I think I may need to use some kind of visual aid

DSB

eddiehead wrote: »

Wow, you're really doing your best to start the old EPL LOI pissing contest aren't ya.

Its quite natural that would come about at a time like this, I however, am getting the hell out of here having said my piece.

Xavi6

DSB wrote: »

What are you talking about, entry criteria? The problem is the exact opposite.

He's bemoaning people showing up for the spectacle. If I don't support either team involved then am I not doing the same? I am a 'fan' after all, just not of Rovers or Madrid.

orourkeda wrote: »

Just dont use the word fan in the same sentence as these people.

I could very well be one of 'these people', and there will be plenty like me at the game.

A Shels/Bohs/Pats fan at the game is no different to a bar stooler out for the first time.

chopperbyrne

orourkeda wrote: »

I wouldnt for a second begrudge Shamrock Rovers their friendly game against Real Madrid. It's a fantastic coup for the club and it's core supporters.

However, I have a question.

Where were these 11,000 supporters when the club were relegated to the first division. I'm not a shamrock rovers supporter but know that the clubs die-hard support base are as dedicated as any in the country and played a big part in keeping the club afloat.

You don't think it's possible that Rovers got a lot of new fans from Tallaght due to the stadium being right in the centre of it?

orourkeda

eddiehead wrote: »

Wow, you're really doing your best to start the old EPL LOI pissing contest aren't ya. read my posts again and come back to me when you figured out what I meant when I said irrelevant. If I have to explain this to you again I think I may need to use some kind of visual aid

I'm not starting a pissing contest between two leagues. That suggestion is unhelpful. You're saying that this is all about Real Madrid.

I'm saying it's not all about Real Madrid.

Xavi6

orourkeda wrote: »

I've never suggested entry criteria

Ok not you, but it has been suggested -

I'd rather see 11,000 fans (preferably season ticket holders) of eircom league clubs around the country have been given first option to purchase tickets for this.

orourkeda

chopperbyrne wrote: »

You don't think it's possible that Rovers got a lot of new fans from Tallaght due to the stadium being right in the centre of it?

Yes. They wont get them from playing Real Madrid apparently

orourkeda

DSB wrote: »

Out of interest, do you support a LOI team yourself?

Yes i'm a member of Bohemians and attend most home games

orourkeda

Xavi6 wrote: »

He's bemoaning people showing up for the spectacle. If I don't support either team involved then am I not doing the same? I am a 'fan' after all, just not of Rovers or Madrid.



I could very well be one of 'these people', and there will be plenty like me at the game.

A Shels/Bohs/Pats fan at the game is no different to a bar stooler out for the first time.

Thats precisely it. They're turning up for th espectacle

Xavi6

orourkeda wrote: »

Thats precisely it. They're turning up for th espectacle

Would you honestly prefer they all stayed away and there were a few thousand empty seats?

orourkeda

dfx- wrote: »

Sellings of half season tickets, sponsorship, club shop sales and "brand awareness" whatever that is. Rovers are getting a set fee, so no matter how many turn up, it doesn't make much difference to Rovers.

Will they all be renewed next season??

Will they all buy full season tickets?

Y2J_MUFC

orourkeda wrote: »

I'm saying it's not all about Real Madrid.

If it wasn't about Real Madrid, why are there not 11,000+ attending every Rovers game?

orourkeda

Xavi6 wrote: »

Would you honestly prefer they all stayed away and there were a few thousand empty seats?

The reason its full is because the bandwagon stampede mentality of the irish sports fan once a club of this stature plays here.

dfx-

orourkeda wrote: »

Will they all be renewed next season??

Will they all buy full season tickets?

How long is a piece of string?

I might not be able to buy a season ticket next year, maybe I won't be able to keep being a member, maybe both. What harm is playing Real..you seem to be making out that if they don't all stay with Rovers then there's no point in playing the game.

orourkeda

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

If it wasn't about Real Madrid, why are there not 11,000+ attending every Rovers game?

Because the Real Madird bandwagon is in town.

You should know all about bandwagons considering youre a manchester United fan

chopperbyrne

Y2J_MUFC wrote: »

If it wasn't about Real Madrid, why are there not 11,000+ attending every Rovers game?

For starters, up until this week the stadium could not accomodate 11,000 fans.

The temporary seating will be removed after this game so it will be down to about 7,000 for regular matches, which is quite likely that they will fill.

orourkeda

dfx- wrote: »

How long is a piece of string?

I might not be able to buy a season ticket next year, maybe I won't be able to keep being a member, maybe both. What harm is playing Real..you seem to be making out that if they don't all stay with Rovers then there's no point in playing the game.

There is no " harm " in it. Its the hangers on thats the problem

orourkeda

chopperbyrne wrote: »

For starters, up until this week the stadium could not accomodate 11,000 fans.

The temporary seating will be removed after this game so it will be down to about 7,000 for regular matches, which is quite likely that they will fill.

When was the last time 7,000 people turned up fpr a shamrock rovers regular home game