Are people underestimating Man City?

jaykay74

As George says misunderestimate city at you peril.

orourkeda

jaykay74 wrote: »

As George says misunderestimate city at you peril.

How can you be so sure? They werent even close to Europa League Qualification last year.

Manchester City need to look at last seasons away form before they can even think about looking at CL qualification.

Add to this the fact that Villa, Everton and spurs either started or finished last season poorly. If one or more of these teams put a consistent run of results together over the course of the season then 4th is up for grabs for the first time in a long time. Man City wont be th eonly team in contention

eirebhoy

orourkeda wrote: »

How can you be so sure? They werent even close to Europa League Qualification last year.

They had a very imbalanced team though. Barry will link it up perfectly imo.

bullpost

The big question mark with City is not the team but the manager.
If you look at the current top 4 they all have had seasoned premiership managers or otherwise successful managers.
Hughes has never operated at that level and therefore is a risk.
He may make the breakthrough next season but having the players is no guarantee , as Big Phil would no doubt tell him.

Pro. F

Bubs101 wrote: »

This. People keep talking as if Newcastle have had a useless defence when in reality, they've had some pretty decent defenders that have just never ever gelled with the only common link being Given. Before this year Collucini, Taylor and Beye were good defenders while Bassongs quality showed this year. That's not a bad defence by any stretch of the imagination

They've been a circus up there for a long time, this season in particular. What is it, three managers this season not even including Hughton? When the defence turns out to be a shambles in that situation it's unfair to lay the blame at Given's feet.

You are mixing up jittery keepers who fook up the defence with plain old badly organised defences imo. Cech post accident is a good example, the defence is good (except when big Phil was there) but Cech fooks them up on occasion. And that pressure weakens the unit.
Given doesn't fook up his defence. He doesn't come for crosses much but he is consistent and certain in his decision making. You don't see him rushing off his line then rushing back. You don't see him trying to climb over his own defenders or getting caught out of position or not shouting to the defenders when he's coming for the ball. He doesn't do any of these things that put defender's under pressure. What we did see a lot of at Newcastle was a cross coming in and the attacker getting a free header, or the CBs not dealing with a long ball - those things aren't the keeper's fault.

Given has been a part of Irish teams' well organised defences (even though containing less than stellar defenders) when the managers have got it right. Look at the Irish defence now under Trap - even though the full back positions are very, very weak. Would you not call the back four well organised, considering the quality of players? Or would you blame Kilbane's fcuk ups on Given too?

I wouldn't say that Given is the best that the premiership has seen - that's Schmeichel - but he has to be up there among the best. Hopefully he gets the chance to prove how good he is at city. But I wouldn't have much hope at the moment as imo Hughes has proven himself to be incapable of organising a defence last season. (note: not that I want city to do well :eek:)

flahavaj

flahavaj wrote: »

Exactly. Is Robinho going to perform more consistently away from home this year for example? Also could any City fans who saw them play on a weekly basis give their assessment of Robinho's performance over the season? From what I saw, I would have said he was a litle diasppointing given the furore that surrounded his signing?

Anybody? Touchy subject, or oversight?:pac:

Xavi6

Robinho was the 4th highest scorer in the Premiership in his first season and he's not even a feckin striker.

People expected waaaaaay to much from him. He had a lull midseason but was phenomenal in some of our last few games and has picked his game up again (see recent Confederations Cup).

Those of us who watch him and the team every week couldn't be happier to have a player of that quality at the club, and any naysayers with regard to him are quite simply idiots.

flahavaj

Xavi6 wrote: »

Robinho was the 4th highest scorer in the Premiership in his first season and he's not even a feckin striker.

People expected waaaaaay to much from him. He had a lull midseason but was phenomenal in some of our last few games and has picked his game up again (see recent Confederations Cup).

Those of us who watch him and the team every week couldn't be happier to have a player of that quality at the club, and any naysayers with regard to him are quite simply idiots.

Thanks for the reply. With regards to having high expectations though, the guy had a reputation as a world class player, coming from Real Madrid and cost over 30 million, its prefectly reasonable to expect him to produce.

Xavi6

flahavaj wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. With regards to having high expectations though, the guy had a reputation as a world class player, coming from Real Madrid and cost over 30 million, its prefectly reasonable to expect him to produce.

And he did.....

Tom10

Xavi6 wrote: »

And he did.....

I don't think he did really produce, but I guess people are expecting him to dictate a game ala messi or ronaldo and i've not seen him do that. Perhaps I haven't watched him in the right games but I haven't seen a game he's played and said he was the best on the pitch.

As for City being underestimated, not buying that. Any team that spends as much as they do should be seen as contenders for 5th place and if any of the top 4 have a bad season (well its arsenal lets face it) then they could do it.

But what team are they going to play, whats the formation going to be and how is anybody going to keep all those rich rich players happy.

Xavi6

Tom10 wrote: »

I don't think he did really produce, but I guess people are expecting him to dictate a game ala messi or ronaldo and i've not seen him do that. Perhaps I haven't watched him in the right games but I haven't seen a game he's played and said he was the best on the pitch.

Stoke at home. 3-0, Robinho hattrick.

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

Stoke at home. 3-0, Robinho hattrick.

just lawl.

the big stage eh

Tom10

Xavi6 wrote: »

Stoke at home. 3-0, Robinho hattrick.

Didn't see that game now but I'd want more than he dominating Stoke. Hopefully he'll go into the big games this year and really show something. I'm not saying he's bad or anything close to that, just that for his skill and ability he should be doing more. I guess I want him winning the game for city against one of the big ones

ntlbell

Tom10 wrote: »

Didn't see that game now but I'd want more than he dominating Stoke. Hopefully he'll go into the big games this year and really show something. I'm not saying he's bad or anything close to that, just that for his skill and ability he should be doing more. I guess I want him winning the game for city against one of the big ones

I didn't see the game either.

but scoring a hat trick != best player on the pitch.

you could do nothing for 87 minutes and score a hatrick

Tom10

ntlbell wrote: »

I didn't see the game either.

but scoring a hat trick != best player on the pitch.

you could do nothing for 87 minutes and score a hatrick

Totally know what ya mean there, but have to disagree slightly. I know that it shouldn't mean it but it usually does and as we all know scoring goals is the hardest part. So if u get three in a game (and its not australia agains american samoa) then you usually should be getting man of the match

Xavi6

Tom10 wrote: »

Didn't see that game now but I'd want more than he dominating Stoke. Hopefully he'll go into the big games this year and really show something. I'm not saying he's bad or anything close to that, just that for his skill and ability he should be doing more. I guess I want him winning the game for city against one of the big ones

And therein lies the problem with expectations.

We weren't a great side last year, we were average at best. It's difficult for one player to go out and win games against a big side when a lot his team mates aren't up to it, even if that player is a 'superstar'.

A 14 goal return is hardly disappointing, and given the extra quality he will have around him this season I think he'll thrive. Certainly has good foundations to build on.

ntlbell wrote: »

I didn't see the game either.

And yet you feel compelled to comment.

I did see it, and he was brilliant for 90 minutes.

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

And yet you feel compelled to comment.

I did see it, and he was brilliant for 90 minutes.

because your point as usual made no sense at all.

your point.

he scored a hat trick so he was the best on the park.

my point

that's not always the case.

having to explain very simple posts is becoming really tiring.

ntlbell

Tom10 wrote: »

Totally know what ya mean there, but have to disagree slightly. I know that it shouldn't mean it but it usually does and as we all know scoring goals is the hardest part. So if u get three in a game (and its not australia agains american samoa) then you usually should be getting man of the match

it depends how the goals come about.

Bubs101

If you score a hat trick in a 3-0 win you are nearly always the best player. If you are the 4th best scorer in the league you nearly always have a good season

Xavi6

ntlbell wrote: »

because your point as usual made no sense at all.

your point.

he scored a hat trick so he was the best on the park.

my point

that's not always the case.

having to explain very simple posts is becoming really tiring.

Ehhh I didn't say that.

I was asked for a game when he was the best player. I responded with Stoke at home where he scored a hattrick.

I never said he was the best player BECAUSE he scored a hattrick.

But yeah, good analysis out of you 'as usual' :rolleyes:

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ehhh I didn't say that.

I was asked for a game when he was the best player. I responded with Stoke at home where he scored a hattrick.

I never said he was the best player BECAUSE he scored a hattrick.

But yeah, good analysis out of you 'as usual' :rolleyes:

yea, the big stoke.

i don't need to see the game to laugh at both points.

Xavi6

ntlbell wrote: »

yea, the big stoke.

i don't need to see the game to laugh at both points.

You kinda do to go against the point that he was the best player on the park.....

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

You kinda do to go against the point that he was the best player on the park.....

I didn't go against it.

I just said scoring a hatrick doesn't make you the best player.

you din't seem to give any other reason as to why he was so one has to assume due to lack of anything else that that's why you thought he was.

i don't need to see the game to think it's funny that the one team you come up with to show he played was poxy stoke.

see?

Xavi6

ntlbell wrote: »

I just said scoring a hatrick doesn't make you the best player.

No one ever said it did, but thanks for the input.

you din't seem to give any other reason as to why he was so one has to assume due to lack of anything else that that's why you thought he was.

Maybe don't assume in future.

I was asked for a game where he was the best player. I gave one.

i don't need to see the game to think it's funny that the one team you come up with to show he played was poxy stoke.

I can come up with more if you'd like, or do we need a certain calibre of opposition for it to be valid? Are Premiership teams not enough?

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

I can come up with more if you'd like, or do we need a certain calibre of opposition for it to be valid? Are Premiership teams not enough?

well with every other player on here if they're not doing it in the big games there not big game players? right? isn't that the way of it here?

I think the best player in the world got a fair bit of that no ?

now you can show us the link to his free kick against chelsea.

Xavi6

ntlbell wrote: »

well with every other player on here if they're not doing it in the big games there not big game players? right? isn't that the way of it here?

I think the best player in the world got a fair bit of that no ?

But no one's claiming Robinho's the best player in the world, I just said he had a great first season in the Premiership.

now you can show us the link to his free kick against chelsea.

So you can point out the deflection? No thanks

ntlbell

Xavi6 wrote: »

But no one's claiming Robinho's the best player in the world, I just said he had a great first season in the Premiership.

you asked was premiership teams not high enough calibre, I'm merely pointing out for most here to a prove a player is "doing" it, no it doesn't seem to be.

Tom10

ntlbell wrote: »

you asked was premiership teams not high enough calibre, I'm merely pointing out for most here to a prove a player is "doing" it, no it doesn't seem to be.

Here lads get a room will ya

Both of ye are just making the same point now and not going anywhere.

Better use of time - pick a formation and starting 11 for Man City as things stand squad wise now

Tom10

Given

zabaleta Dunne Kompany Bridge


Ireland Barry


SWP Robinho

Adebayor Santa Cruz

Simple 4 4 2

Not crazy about that team though but could do damage

Bounty Hunter

Tom10 wrote: »

Given

zabaleta Dunne Kompany Bridge


Ireland Barry


SWP Robinho

Adebayor Santa Cruz

Simple 4 4 2

Not crazy about that team though but could do damage

no Tevez?

Tom10

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

no Tevez?

Haha god forgot about him, ya him in for Santa Cruz i'd say. If ya wanted to go all out put him in for SWP

Way to many forwards at that club haha

Xavi6

It's quite straight forward really -

---

Given

---

Zabaleta

---

Kompany

---

Onouha

---

Bridge

---

De Jong

---

---

Ireland

---

Barry

---

Tevez

---

Robinho

---

Adebayor

---

Subs: Taylor, Richards, Dunne, Wright-Phillips, Petrov, Bojinov, Santa Cruz

Tom10

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's quite straight forward really -

---

Given

---

Zabaleta

---

Kompany

---

Onouha

---

Bridge

---

De Jong

---

---

Ireland

---

Barry

---

Tevez

---

Robinho

---

Adebayor

---

Subs: Taylor, Richards, Dunne, Wright-Phillips, Petrov, Bojinov, Santa Cruz

Think Dunne is still better than Onouha and playing Tevez out on the wing limits his impact.

Just seen a miss from adebayor there - Epic

Xavi6

Kompany's out for the first part of the season so it'll be Dunne and Onouha anyway going on current players.

SWP was awful on the South Africa tour so his place is very much under threat imo, especially with young Vladimir Weiss looking quality as well.

Bounty Hunter

Tom10 wrote: »

Think Dunne is still better than Onouha and playing Tevez out on the wing limits his impact.

Just seen a miss from adebayor there - Epic

well CB is the place they are expected to strenghten next so perhaps neither will start.

I agree abouyt Tevez and tbh that is the only reason my team in the OP had a different line-up to Xavi's above with SWP right wing, Tevez in the hole behind Ade and Ireland/De Jong/Barry fighting for 2 CM spots, but tbh his makes more sense as far as keeping players happy with games started etc i.e all 3 of the midfielders mentioned starting as is Tevez in the majority of games although im sure hed prefer to be starting in CF.

flahavaj

Bubs101 wrote: »

If you score a hat trick in a 3-0 win you are nearly always the best player. If you are the 4th best scorer in the league you nearly always have a good season

I guess it depends on your expectations.:pac:

Bounty Hunter

so now its the below and im sure they aint done yet (hense inc Lescott as a pos CB):

................................................S Given

Zabaleta/M.Richards........K.Toure..........Lescott/Dunne/Kompany.....W.Bridge

...................N.DeJong/Barry/Ireland..........N.DeJong/Barry/Ireland

SWP...........................................Tevez................................Robinho

...............................................Adebayor

Subs: S.Taylor, Ben Haim, M.Richards, M.Petrov, Elano, RSC, Craig Bellamy


or

---

Given

---

Zabaleta

---

K.Toure

---

Lescott

---

Bridge

---

De Jong

---

---

Ireland

---

Barry

---

Tevez

---

Robinho

---

Adebayor

---

Subs: Taylor, Richards, Dunne, Kompany Wright-Phillips, Petrov, Santa Cruz

Bounty Hunter

The Times wrote:

Martin O'Neill backs Manchester City to mount title bid
(Nick Wilkinson)

Martin O’Neill claimed yesterday that Manchester City’s summer spending spree has made them serious contenders for the title.

“City might not be favourites to win the league but they should be,” the Aston Villa manager said. “If Kolo Touré goes to the club and they still haven’t stopped spending, they have as good a chance as anyone.”

Sir Alex Ferguson, the Manchester United manager, dismissed his neighbours across the city last week as “a small club with a small mentality”. O’Neill, however, believes that without the distractions of the Champions League, City will be able to make a viable challenge in the Barclays Premier League.

“All they have got is 38 League games and the League Cup and FA Cup, which does not start until January,” O’Neill said. “I would say now that the top four has become a genuine top five. It has surprised me. Manchester City have gone and got some players that three months ago I didn’t think was possible.”

O’Neill had pretensions to crash the top four with Villa but feels that City’s spending power has lessened his side’s chances of fulfilling that ambition. “The frustration has come from the type of player they have been able to attract,” he said. “You are looking at trying to get value for money, but Manchester City are putting it beyond an awful lot of teams.

“You think, well, you got quite close last year and suddenly another club has just stepped over you immediately before you can go on. It kind of punctures you. I’m sure if you asked David Moyes \ he would think the same thing.

“The City side is going to be so, so strong that they can withstand anything during the course of the year and they’re not even playing European football. This situation reminds me of Chelsea about five years ago. There’s part of me that’s actually quite excited to see how they will do. It’s as if the Premiership has been reinvented five years on.”

gotta love that pic of MON

JPA

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

gotta love that pic of MON

Boggles

City in my opinion won't break the top 4, not this season.

They are more than capable of getting 5th/6th but that is not a breath taking achievement considering you can lose 10+ games and still achieve those positions.

Margin of error is so small in the prem league the past couple of seasons, too much going against them and too many unknown variables.

I'll be more inclined to watch them next season though thats for sure.

JPA

Chelsea scraped 4th on the last day of the season, a month or so before Roman took over. They then went on to finish 2nd.
All the players City have signed are from the premier League. Do people really genuinely believe they won't be top 4 at least? Seriously?

Tom10

I don't think they will unless Arsenal have a bad season (though chelsea and liverpool haven't done a thing in the transfer window either) and there is a chance of that because the transfer market is completely out of control because of Real and City.

My problem is that it takes ages for a team to do well. I suspect that there'll be an initial period where they will be very good but coming into winter things will wane and they'll struggle. They'll try buy more players in January no doubt which will create more hostility in the dressing room as there will be too many players for too few positions.

All in all, if they do break into the top four Mark Hughes will have done an amazing job and he will have found a completely untried system in world football if he is to find balance in a team with more forwards than Newcastle has problems.

JPA

People are obsessing about the strikers.
They'll have 5 strikers for the season including Robinho.
What's the big deal with that?

noodler

Bellamy, Ade, Tevez, Santa Cruz and Robinho.

The problems are twofold.

1: All these players are big names - Its not like one is a Nemeth or a Macheda who will be happy to stay on the bench.

2: City played with a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 last season but usually with only one out-and-out striker. Now if they do the same thing this season (minus Robinho on the left) they still have 3 huge names that will be benched. If they decide to play 3 strikers then you will lose someone (maybe both) like SWP, Petrov from the team. Finally they could go 4-4-2, I think this is the most viable solution but we shall see.

Boggles

JPA wrote: »

Chelsea scraped 4th on the last day of the season, a month or so before Roman took over. They then went on to finish 2nd.
All the players City have signed are from the premier League. Do people really genuinely believe they won't be top 4 at least? Seriously?

Whats your point? City just as much scraped 10th this year with a half season of the Arabs money. So by your logic they will get 8th???

Smegball

Are people forgetting that City finished 10th last season, 40 points behind Manchester United?

Honestly I don't think that kind of gap can be bridged over one summer, yes people will say they will break into the top 4 ahead of Arsenal, but I don't think they will.

I'm honestly tipping Arsenal to surprise alot of people this upcoming season, they still have a great team, the likes of Song, Gibbs, Vela etc will also push on. Not to mention Ramsey and Wilshere!

A team with the likes of Arshavin, RVP, a fired up Eduardo and a ever improving and criminally underrated Bendtner is still excellent firepower to be supplied by the likes of Nasri, Walcott, Fabregas and maybe Rosicky.

Adebayor wasn't arsed with Arsenal anymore lets be honest, getting 25m for him was excellent from Wenger, Toure also hasn't quite been the same for a few years, receiving 14m or so profit from a past his peak (IMO) defender is also savvy especially as his younger replacement has been bought for less than Toure!

The African Cup Of Nations will effect City aswell.

I see City finishing 5th/6th which is a great improvement from last season but won't be enough for Hughes I'm afraid. If City can replicate their performance at Anfield last season for 90% of their away games next season they will have a great chance because their home form seems to be expemplary, if they improve this they might have a chance although I can see them being very inconsistent aswell.

Boggles

Smegball wrote: »

Are people forgetting that City finished 10th last season, 40 points behind Manchester United?

Add to that last Season Scoring goals was not Citys problem. They only scored 10 less the eventual champions.

Xavi6

JPA wrote: »

People are obsessing about the strikers.
They'll have 5 strikers for the season including Robinho.
What's the big deal with that?

One less now with Bojinov heading to Parma for a year on loan.

rossie1977

JPA wrote: »

Chelsea scraped 4th on the last day of the season, a month or so before Roman took over. They then went on to finish 2nd.
All the players City have signed are from the premier League. Do people really genuinely believe they won't be top 4 at least? Seriously?

chelsea still finished with 67 points that season they scrapped 4th losing 9 games, city got 50 points last season and lost 18 games, arsenal finished 22 points ahead of city last year, thats a huge gap to not only pull back but overtake

dsmythy

It's not about breaking into the top four now for City. It's about everyone else trying to break into the top five.