Extension letters

pajero2005

rrpc wrote: »

Shouldn't be on the DoJ website as it's a Garda function.

Anyway Grizzly's letter says they will be (are) on the Garda website.

I know its a Garda function but figured DoJ was worth a try seeing that its not on the Garda site yet.

With all this hear say and scaremongery floating about (.223's not being issued anymore...etc), it would be nice to know for sure whats what!

rrpc

It appears that the sections of the act that relate to the new application process have not been commenced yet.

I've assumed that section 26 is commenced, as otherwise the process of grouping licences in order to extend them could not have been carried out.

Section 27 must not be commenced yet as there's no sign of the Commissioner's guidelines.

The application form itself needs to be in an SI, so maybe that's the hold up.

Bananaman

We never knew what was what. I doubt that will change. The 'Guidelines' will not be published but will simply be referenced in refusals - 'as per the DOJ Guidelines'

Plenty of people were refused Pistol licenses on the grounds that 'they don't do that in the Olympics' for years. It won't be any different now.

Individual Supers will still make their own minds up what they will and will not allow and will use the 'Guidelines' to back them up. The new 'rules' are open enough that they can use them to justify any decision.

I'm still interested to see what the most stringent application of the new 'rules' will be i.e.

• References,
• Medical records,
• Membership of 'prescribed shooting orgainsation'
• Range attendance record
• Competition attendance record
• Monitored alarm as sanctioned by 'prescribed shooting orgainsation'
• Safe complying with standards as listed by 'prescribed shooting orgainsation',
• Training courses passed as sanctioned by 'prescribed shooting orgainsation'
• Required alterations to house for security
• etc.

especially people who are applying for a new license for a firearm that they already hold and have had their security vetted in the past.

B'Man

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

We never knew what was what. I doubt that will change. The 'Guidelines' will not be published but will simply be referenced in refusals - 'as per the DOJ Guidelines'

I'll just quote what the Minister said last week:

New guidelines on licensing matters, published by the Garda Commissioner, which will be available to the public.

Bananaman wrote:

I'm still interested to see what the most stringent application of the new 'rules' will be i.e.

• Membership of 'prescribed shooting orgainsation'
• Competition attendance record
• Monitored alarm as sanctioned by 'prescribed shooting orgainsation'
• Safe complying with standards as listed by 'prescribed shooting orgainsation',
• Training courses passed as sanctioned by 'prescribed shooting orgainsation'

None of those are in any part of the firearms acts and there are certainly no reference to 'prescribed shooting organisations'

Nobody's getting that sort of rubber stampage.

Bananaman

None of those are in any part of the firearms acts

We await the 'Guidelines' with bated breath.

B'Man

Our man in Havana

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Got three of them this AM.
For your elucidation and enjoyment.
Attached

Is that for a restricted firearm?

rrpc

Bond-007 wrote: »

Is that for a restricted firearm?

Not necessarily. (And I don't mean to be answering for Grizzly) but you'll be in the first bunch if any of your firearms are restricted.

Grizzly 45

Nope,22 rifle,[still referred to as .220:rolleyes:] 2nd subsuquent shotgun[single barrel] with endorsement,and unlimited single barrel.
Would have thought the handgun one would have been first out.But frankly,I didnt expect it to be either the way things happen here.

bmcm71

I've heard that all gun licences will be 80 Euro for 3 years and that the second/subsequent 6 Euro license is no more. Surely the NARGC should have tried to renegotiate this. Bit of a cynical attempt to get rid of legally held guns me thinks. Should have gone the UK way with a single license for shotguns and all of them listed on this

rrpc

bmcm71 wrote: »

I've heard that all gun licences will be 80 Euro for 3 years and that the second/subsequent 6 Euro license is no more. Surely the NARGC should have tried to renegotiate this.

I'm sure they did, but I've never been able to adequately understand why this reduced fee exists in the first place when it doesn't exist for any other firearms, so I'd imagine that was a bit of a hurdle to get across in any negotiations: "We want that fee to remain at that level because.....eh, erm.., it was always there?"

Should have gone the UK way with a single license for shotguns and all of them listed on this

Not for the want of trying I assure you.

bmcm71

Maybe the NARGC did try but there was good reason to adopt the UK method with all shotguns (3 shots or less) on a single shotgun cert and rifles and multishot shotguns on firearms certs. My understanding is that the first license over here was an actual hunting permit and that the second/subsequent licenses were just permits to hold the gun (like the farmers license) By increasing the fee the Guards are undoubtedly going to see a lot of guns handed in by people who don't shoot that much. I get the feeling that this new legislation is going to make it much harder for law abiding citizens interested in shooting sports and we all know that it won't make a whit of difference to gun crime.

Whats the first step in establishing a fascist state?

Disarm the civilian population!!!

Sparks

bmcm71 wrote: »

Maybe the NARGC did try but there was good reason to adopt the UK method with all shotguns (3 shots or less) on a single shotgun cert and rifles and multishot shotguns on firearms certs.

If you were going to do that, you should just have one FAC anyway and put everything on it. And every shooter I know thinks that's how it should be done. And that was put forward as one of the first things the FCP wanted; but their terms of reference forced them to work within the CJA2006 framework, so they couldn't get it done. And PULSE and "that's how we always done it" further handicapped efforts.

My understanding is that the first license over here was an actual hunting permit and that the second/subsequent licenses were just permits to hold the gun (like the farmers license)

I wouldn't say you had a good grasp of the law there.

I get the feeling that this new legislation is going to make it much harder for law abiding citizens interested in shooting sports and we all know that it won't make a whit of difference to gun crime.

Yeah, that's sortof what's been said in every thread on the subject here since 2004.

Whats the first step in establishing a fascist state?
Disarm the civilian population!!!

Actually, it's not; the first step is to create a cult of hero worship around the head of a party. And I know what you're referring to (the idea that Hitler on coming to power, first banned all firearms). Thing is, it's not actually true, the laws pre-dated him. It is a cautionary tale against poorly written and imprecise law, however...

daveob007

bmcm71 wrote: »

Maybe the NARGC did try but there was good reason to adopt the UK method with all shotguns (3 shots or less) on a single shotgun cert and rifles and multishot shotguns on firearms certs. My understanding is that the first license over here was an actual hunting permit and that the second/subsequent licenses were just permits to hold the gun (like the farmers license) By increasing the fee the Guards are undoubtedly going to see a lot of guns handed in by people who don't shoot that much. I get the feeling that this new legislation is going to make it much harder for law abiding citizens interested in shooting sports and we all know that it won't make a whit of difference to gun crime.

Whats the first step in establishing a fascist state?

Disarm the civilian population!!!

+1 to that, I will certainly be getting rid of my 20 bore shotgun as a result,only use it every now and then for crows,magpies and so on,not interested in game shooting or clay busting.
I'm dammed if i am going to pay 80 euros for that privilage when i have my .22 for the same job if i want.
I can see many farmers who won't pay that either, there will be plenty of old shotguns to chose from as a result.

rrpc

bmcm71 wrote: »

My understanding is that the first license over here was an actual hunting permit and that the second/subsequent licenses were just permits to hold the gun (like the farmers license)

My understanding too, but the same facility didn't hold for licences issued for rifles for hunting purposes.

Sparks

daveob007 wrote: »

I can see many farmers who won't pay that either, there will be plenty of old shotguns to chose from as a result.

I've seen old shotguns like that from farmers. Feel free to choose, but I wouldn't put a live shell in one of those things if you paid me to, and I'd want to be a good hundred yards away before you pull the trigger no matter what direction it'd be pointed in!

daveob007

Sparks wrote: »

I've seen old shotguns like that from farmers. Feel free to choose, but I wouldn't put a live shell in one of those things if you paid me to, and I'd want to be a good hundred yards away before you pull the trigger no matter what direction it'd be pointed in!

True enough,,was down in Mallow yesterday bying ammo and was looking at loads of guns that fit that description.
many of them would look very nice if used for display only,,but thats another matter.
They could be used as beating sticks for the pheasant season.

rrpc

I just noticed from Grizzly's letter that his extension runs until 30/11/09. More a question for Grizzly really, but do all his extensions run until that date or are they different?

Dusty87

All this is is a clean up to remove any old guns farmers have, people who've been left guns from fathers etc that dont see the light of day. Exactly how my fo put it, "theres too many guns out there not being used and its a big clean up". I can think of one distant relation who needs a walking stick to walk, hasnt fired his gun for 20 odd years but still pays the 6 euro a year to keep it. He wouldnt be able to shoot it nor do i even think he has a cartridge. Im guessing those who shoot reguarly, have security in check etc will have no problems keeping or getting new guns. Next year all will be normal again.

Dusty87

rrpc wrote: »

I just noticed from Grizzly's letter that his extension runs until 30/11/09. More a question for Grizzly really, but do all his extensions run until that date or are they different?

The FO told me there all extended to november. If there all the 30th is another thing.

Our man in Havana

I would say that there will be a lot of guns heading for destruction in the next few months.

Our man in Havana

Dusty87 wrote: »

The FO told me there all extended to november. If there all the 30th is another thing.

Are they not supposed to be staggered so that the system will not be overloaded with applications?

rrpc

Bond-007 wrote: »

Are they not supposed to be staggered so that the system will not be overloaded with applications?

Correct.

They're staggered from November until July 2010.

Lucky lads who'll get a free year.

cavan shooter

Am I the only one worried about the word "considered " being used in the letter. I have three shotguns and a rifle, was thinking on two shot guns and two rifles. Think I'll wait a while to see how things pan out:(

Clash

cavan shooter wrote: »

Am I the only one worried about the word "considered " being used in the letter. I have three shotguns and a rifle, was thinking on two shot guns and two rifles. Think I'll wait a while to see how things pan out:(

No, you're not.

It means we get to apply for our licences all fresh and new again and hope we get them all over again.

I think some people might get a land.

Dr Strange

According to my FO they are waiting on a training session for the introduction of the new system but it still hasn't got underway yet. I rang him because I was worried about the extension letter (which I still haven't got) and what to do with my rifles in the mean time. I was told to keep the rifles in my own lock up (safe). Overall he didn't really know what is going to happen but thought that the gardai and the licence holders had been thrown into the deep end together. He's a sound guy.

marlin vs

It look's like legally if you haven't got a cover letter, you shouldn't be in possesion of a firearm from Sunday 1st August.

Our man in Havana

Sunday 1st August.

Saturday surely?

Dr Strange

marlin vs wrote: »

It look's like legally if you haven't got a cover letter, you shouldn't be in possesion of a firearm from Sunday 1st August.

Well, my FO told me that my current licences will cover my firearms. I'll have to go with what I am being told by my local gardai station.

Dusty87

Bond-007 wrote: »

Are they not supposed to be staggered so that the system will not be overloaded with applications?

I didnt know that. she just told me that the current licence is being extended til november. I presumed everyones.

ghostmantra

got mine this morning "extended to 30/11/2009":)