central heating/back boiler/heat recovery!!!!

irelandhouse

hi there

just a quick one.

we renovated our house about 2 years ago.

at the time we put in air tightness/siga system for the entire house.

we have two issues.

if we have the fire on downstairs this heats all the d/stairs easily.
leaving us not to have to turn on the heating at all.
> only if we want hot water or
if we want to heat up the rooms upstairs!
> we have upstairs and downstairs zoned so thats ok!

however I was wondering would we be better off putting in a heat recovery system >

firstly allow us to have a good air flow and
secondly would it take some of the heated air around the house to the areas not so hot ?

or !

go back in time and put in a back boiler > at least if we have the fire on we would be doing more than one job!

any thoughts, suggestions?!

Joey the lips

irelandhouse wrote: »

hi there

just a quick one.

we renovated our house about 2 years ago.

at the time we put in air tightness/siga system for the entire house.

we have two issues.

if we have the fire on downstairs this heats all the d/stairs easily.
leaving us not to have to turn on the heating at all.
> only if we want hot water or
if we want to heat up the rooms upstairs!
> we have upstairs and downstairs zoned so thats ok!

however I was wondering would we be better off putting in a heat recovery system >

firstly allow us to have a good air flow and
secondly would it take some of the heated air around the house to the areas not so hot ?

or !

go back in time and put in a back boiler > at least if we have the fire on we would be doing more than one job!

any thoughts, suggestions?!

I might be not the perfect man to answer this but why do you want a heat recovery system to remove the heat from your house. What heat recovery systems usually do is take the heat from a source usually ground and pressureise it into a higher temperature and heat the house,

irelandhouse

hi joey, many thanks for the reply

is that not ground source heating ?

heat recovering, taking the heat from the most used rooms and dist to the less used. while freshing the air>

Joey the lips

irelandhouse wrote: »

hi joey, many thanks for the reply

is that not ground source heating ?

heat recovering, taking the heat from the most used rooms and dist to the less used. while freshing the air>

Yes what i was refering to was groundsource. The type of system you want I havenever heard of. The closest someting comes is zongin heating to come on in different areas. If you extract heat from an area you will have to change it back to something or cool it and either way you will loose the heat.

Graaaaa

I'm also not the best person to comment on the performance merits of each, but initial thoughts on the work involved:

Backboiler:
break out fire place, modify if necessary and fit back boiler.
Make good the fireplace.
pipework to plumb this into your central heating system - pipes in walls, floor voids or both - work involved depends on the distance to your central heating from the fire?

Heat recovery ventilation:
Fit HRV unit in attic, not a big problem I suspect
Fit intake and outlets to outside air in roofing, possibly some clever roof-tile type products out there?
Fit piping in attic for the in and out vent for each room to be ventilated.
Chase walls for both pipes in every room vented (or maybe it can drop between studs in partition walls) - obviously getting to the ground floor is going to be trickier and more destructive.
Make good all the walls and fit vent covers to all pipes.

I take it the idea behind the HRV is to use the warm air from your rooms heated by the fire and dissipate it through the whole house by warming the incoming air with the outgoing - it should work that way alright; there will be heat losses associated with this but you will have fresher air throughout.

The backboiler approach will have less losses I suspect but no fresher air - how do you find using the fire in an airtight house? If this is comfortable then maybe the backboiler would give you what you want?

PeteHeat

Hi,

I expect you have some source of fresh air especially for the room wih open fire ?

Heat recovery systems sold by good suppliers are not marketed as an alternative to air source central heating, they are meant to work as efficiient forms of ventilation with minimal heat loss.

While many people love their open fire however it is worth noting that out of every Ten Euro in fuel Seven Euro goes straight up the chimney.

As your house appears to be very well insulated (low heat loss) and air tight you should benefit from a mecanical ventilation system perhaps you have already installed the ducting for this ?

Air tightness and HRV can cause problems with open fires and stoves if they do not have primary combustion air taken directly from outside the house, not just the room they are installed in.

I agree with Graaaa I doubt if a standard back boiler would represent value considering the amount of work involved.

.

irelandhouse

many many thanks for all your replies

I appriciate the advice. I sent off the plans for the house as it stands to two companies who provide heat recovery units and ventilation systems and will post the replies up.

I would basically like to get the best and most practical system

the boiler is a condensing firebird and has a good alpha grundfos pump installed so it heats up very quickly and the literally only needs to be on for about 10 minutes to heat the house.

we have the rads zoned up and down so can close both of these if we just want to get hot water - this takes only about 20 minute to get a tank full!

what we want to get is a solution that will take the heat from the downstairs rooms when the fire is on and use it in other parts of the house.

as Pete was saying tho the air freshness side of it might not help!

also with regards the 7 out of 10 euro going up the chimney-I do agree.
What I was looking at today was perhaps not with a back boiler, but what about a stanley stove with a boiler ? that should regulate the heat downstairs and if needs be put heat into the tank or into the rads ?

what you think >

Stratocaster

irelandhouse wrote: »

many many thanks for all your replies

I appriciate the advice. I sent off the plans for the house as it stands to two companies who provide heat recovery units and ventilation systems and will post the replies up.

I would basically like to get the best and most practical system

the boiler is a condensing firebird and has a good alpha grundfos pump installed so it heats up very quickly and the literally only needs to be on for about 10 minutes to heat the house.

we have the rads zoned up and down so can close both of these if we just want to get hot water - this takes only about 20 minute to get a tank full!

what we want to get is a solution that will take the heat from the downstairs rooms when the fire is on and use it in other parts of the house.

as Pete was saying tho the air freshness side of it might not help!

also with regards the 7 out of 10 euro going up the chimney-I do agree.
What I was looking at today was perhaps not with a back boiler, but what about a stanley stove with a boiler ? that should regulate the heat downstairs and if needs be put heat into the tank or into the rads ?

what you think >

You will find both oil and solid fuel Stanly type ranges available to be combined with an existing heating system and hot water storage. They give great results and I would recommend them over a back boiler.

You seem to have a grasp of heat recovery ventilation systems but in order to obtain its full potential you must extract excess heat from key areas not the entire downstairs floor. Key areas include kitchens, utility's, showers and bathrooms. You could include a room with an open fire.

The idea is based on extracting the extra heat built up from kitchen ovens and hobs, steamy showers and taps, heat generating appliances, on occasion open fires. These areas provide the free heat.

It don't feel its beneficial to extract the heat from rads, there is only so much heat that you can recirculate. You have to target the areas which give the most efficient results.

The systems I know of extract the heat from only the above mentioned key areas and provides heat and ventilation only to the most the required rooms being bedrooms. This system gives good results for the cost of installation and you can recoup the cost of installation through energy savings.

To install a system similar to how you describe would be extremely expensive, although its a good idea to recirculate every room the cost of this instillation will never really be recouped through energy savings.

I have seen air recirculation systems combined with geothermal but again I feel there is only so far you can go. If you spend high amounts on instillation's the amount of time spent recouping the costs becomes to excessive. Its a balancing act so be careful.

irelandhouse

thanks strato

the downstairs is a living room with open fire, about 3.3m x 3.3m opening on a kitchen 7.5mx3.2m this is all an open area. the only other room downstairs is a hall with stairs up to the 1st floor.

we have a rad in each room and when on these more than cover heating.

I think the stanley is the best option.

put it on, it will heat the down stairs,.
hook it up to the Central heating and this will sort the rads and hot water!

the Heat recovery I think will best be served to bring in fresh air!

Stratocaster

irelandhouse wrote: »

thanks strato

the downstairs is a living room with open fire, about 3.3m x 3.3m opening on a kitchen 7.5mx3.2m this is all an open area. the only other room downstairs is a hall with stairs up to the 1st floor.

we have a rad in each room and when on these more than cover heating.

I think the stanley is the best option.

put it on, it will heat the down stairs,.
hook it up to the Central heating and this will sort the rads and hot water!

the Heat recovery I think will best be served to bring in fresh air!

Sounds like a good plan. I always look at the worst scenario, meaning lots of rooms and bedrooms etc you never know who is looking at the information provided so I like to provide information with that in mind.
Seems like you have a tidy operation and you should see good results as its within the limits. There is all kinds of grants available for energy saving measures so its worth looking into.

Finn 09

Heat Recovery is a very effective way of distributing heat around your house and works hand in hand with air tightness the only thing is its possible to retro fit some houses depending on the layout and flexibility of house owner in where pipe runs can go to access ground floor rooms