"Harney refuses to rule out cuts in minimum wage"

Permabear · 22-07-2009 6:42pm

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Martyr · 22-07-2009 6:42pm

turgon wrote:

Considering that he has worked very hard to get many educational qualifications, I would think not. However to the man who has no qualifications, who is he to demand more than minimum wage? What exactly does he have that warrants being paid more than this?

This is the answer i would have expected from donegalfella.

I know someone who just finished his masters in business/economics and works in a kfc last couple of years.

He works minimum wage, why wouldn't you? you seem to believe it is acceptable to lower it, so surely you'd be happy to work for it also?

Tony EH · 22-07-2009 6:43pm

turgon wrote: »

Want to address my point about disproportional rises? Bearing in mind your failure to do so will be taken by me - and probably others - as you admitting I am right.

Your precieved disproportion has already been addressed. It's a misrepresentation of the real situation. Even if the dole has increased in a greater proportion to the overall increase in in the cost of goods, it still only means that it is SLIGHTLY less difficult than it was before.

You're trying to make it sound like living on 200 Euro a week is a breeze.

And I doubt you will find many who agree with your view.

Martyr · 22-07-2009 6:43pm

donegalfella wrote:

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there are plenty of staff needed for fast food restaurants

Tony EH · 22-07-2009 6:44pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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What an utterly miserly viewpoint.

turgon · 22-07-2009 6:45pm

Martyr wrote: »

He works minimum wage, why wouldn't you? you seem to believe it is acceptable to lower it, so surely you'd be happy to work for it also?

I didnt say I wouldnt now did I?

If I had a full time job on minimum wage, yes I would. In fact I went looking for jobs recently in only places that give minimum wage. Even if was only 7.50 that would be still 300 euro a week.

Of course then Ive got to decide do I want to work 40 hours for 300 euro or 0 hours for 200 euro. Which do you think id chose?

turgon · 22-07-2009 6:47pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Your precieved disproportion has already been addressed. It's a misrepresentation of the real situation. Even if the dole has increased in a greater proportion to the overall increase in in the cost of goods, it still only means that it is SLIGHTLY less difficult than it was before.

Ok so weve got you admitting that the dole did increase disproportionately. Why is this? Why did the dole have to outstrip inflation? If a certain amount was good enough in 99, why is the amount of money that could in 2009 purchase the same amount of products not good enough?

Oh btw, you failed to address my allegation Im bitter.

Permabear · 22-07-2009 6:47pm

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Martyr · 22-07-2009 6:48pm

turgon wrote:

I didnt say I wouldnt now did I?

...

Of course then Ive got to decide do I want to work 40 hours for 300 euro or hours for 200 euro. Which do you think id chose?

i don't blame you, but some people have no choice.
after you've paid the rent, there really is little point in working for minimum wage, yet you would like to see it lower?

Martyr · 22-07-2009 6:49pm

donegalfella wrote:

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the point is you wouldn't work for minimum wage unless you couldn't find anything better, but the fact is, you can't right now.

If I had no other choice, I'd work somewhere such as KFC. But I do have other choices, so I'm not looking for fast-food jobs right now.

Yes, I know, because it only pays minimum wage and is hard work.

Sand · 22-07-2009 6:50pm

I know someone who just finished his masters in business/economics and works in a kfc last couple of years.

He works minimum wage, why wouldn't you? you seem to believe it is acceptable to lower it, so surely you'd be happy to work for it also?

DF has his own minimum wage, based on his own expectations, education and demonstrated performance.

Your friend has his own minimum wage, based on his own expectations, education and demonstrated performance.

Id imagine your friend didnt study for his masters so he could put it on his CV for his KFC application. If he did, it was a waste of his time, and probably would have harmed his application if he put it on. He is working in KFC because he cant get anything better, or he is in a comfort zone where the demands the job puts on him are quite low, and hes willing to accept that wage as opposed to taking on a more demanding job where more would be expected off him than just showing up on time and not pissing his pants in front of the customer.

Martyr · 22-07-2009 6:51pm

i've pretty much demonstrated the hypocrisy of those wishing to lower the minimum wage.

thank you

Tony EH · 22-07-2009 6:55pm

turgon wrote: »

Oh btw, you failed to address my allegation Im bitter.

I don't have to, you display it very clearly with sentences like...
"But it's not supposed to be easy. When life on the dole becomes "easy," welfare becomes an incentive not to work. The purpose of the dole is to help people meet their basic needs until such time as they find employment again—nothing more."

Sand · 22-07-2009 6:55pm

i've pretty much demonstrated the hypocrisy of those wishing to lower the minimum wage.

thank you

You've demonstrated you dont understand why educated, motivated and experienced people expect to be paid more than uneducated, unmotivated and inexperienced people.

Martyr · 22-07-2009 7:00pm

Sand wrote:

You've demonstrated you dont understand why educated, motivated and experienced people expect to be paid more than uneducated, unmotivated and inexperienced people.

You said a mouthful, Sand.

You've demonstrated that you believe everyone working in fast food is uneducated, unmotivated and inexperienced.

Utter rubbish.

turgon · 22-07-2009 7:04pm

Martyr wrote: »

You've demonstrated that you believe everyone working in fast food is uneducated, unmotivated and inexperienced.

No, we have just maintained its not a high skills job.

Sand · 22-07-2009 7:08pm

You said a mouthful, Sand.

You've demonstrated that you believe everyone working in fast food is uneducated, unmotivated and inexperienced.

Utter rubbish.

I didnt say that actually.

Your friend is unmotivated though - you say hes got a masters and has been working in KFC for the past few years? Id understand if he couldnt get a job in 2009. Id pretty much understand if he couldnt get a better job in 2008. I really, really, really cant comprehend that someone with some ambition and application couldnt get something better than the minimum wage in 2007 or prior to that.

Theres two types of people working in the likes of KFC minimum wage jobs - people who cannot get anything better because they are uneducated, unmotivated or inexperienced - and those who are simply working a job whilst they get educated or look for something better.

Martyr · 22-07-2009 7:16pm

I think you should go back and read my post.
Studying his masters.

He's not inexperienced or uneducated, he's a hard worker who doesn't waste time on boards.ie arguing for a reduction in the minimum wage.

And if you don't want to work minimum wage, that's fine..but don't lecture everyone here about how it's bad for the country...because it's total BS.

i have no more time to discuss this, it's bloody pointless.

None of you would work minimum wage, but would like a reduction.
Nothing more than hypocrisy, that's all I have to say about it.

Permabear · 22-07-2009 7:16pm

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Martyr · 22-07-2009 7:17pm

donegalfella wrote:

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yeah? i'm happy for you.
are you working today? :pac:

turgon · 22-07-2009 7:18pm

I said Id have no problem working minimum wage and that I sought jobs that only pay that much

Tony EH · 22-07-2009 7:21pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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Nowhere did I say that. Nowhere did anyone say that.

Permabear · 22-07-2009 7:21pm

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Permabear · 22-07-2009 7:22pm

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Tony EH · 22-07-2009 7:50pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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It doesn't matter what I think it should be.

Permabear · 22-07-2009 7:59pm

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Tony EH · 22-07-2009 8:05pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yes, because it's an utterly miserly position.

ronbyrne2005 · 22-07-2009 8:06pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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If they have a partner also unemployed and a couple of kids they can get 800euro a week on the dole. Why work when the dole is so good. The asians and foreigners you see working in minimum wage jobs do them because they cant claim much or any social welfare, in fact it could be argued wages for these jobs would be higher if there wasnt so much migrant labour competing to do it.

Permabear · 22-07-2009 8:16pm

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donojono · 22-07-2009 8:20pm

sovtek wrote: »

...and what alternative dimension are you living in where there are all these jobs lying around?

Most of the people I went to school with have been on the dole there parents on the dole. Hell they have all been on the dole since before the boom all through it and are still on the dole today. SO when there was thousands of jobs, so many infact they people were comming in off coffin ships from east europe just to work here. Why should them dolers still get the same money for free today? they where already granted a life. If they want a high standard of living earn it. So cut all their dole money.

The longer you are on the dole the less it should pay. If you just lost your job for the 1st year if should be called. Redundancy allowance while your seeking a new job. If your on it a year it should get slashed 5 percent. If you on it 20 years.... well. Even when the econonmy booms back. THem people will still be on the dole(The ones from my OP).

"Harney refuses to rule out cuts in minimum wage"

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