Intune Networks announcement

irishcarbomb2k

New plan will add 30,000 jobs - Ryan
Tuesday, 21 July 2009 12:46
Communications Minister Eamon Ryan has announced plans to create up to 30,000 jobs over the next decade in digital and clean technology.

The first measure will see 50 jobs created in the next year, followed by another 300 within three years, as Irish company Intune Networks builds a new communications network which will cut down bottlenecks in data transfer.

The Government is also planning to establish an International Content Services Centre in Dublin, and a Marine Research, Test and Development Platform in Galway Bay.

AdvertisementIntune system uses laser technology

The Intune jobs will come as a result of a plan to develop what is being called an Examplar Smart Network using Intune's technology.

Trials of the new network are expected to start early next year with the first phase in operation before the end of next year.

Intune has developed a programmable fibre optic platform, using laser technology, which it says uses up to 75% less energy than today's networks. The company says the system was developed to cope with growing amounts of data and video traffic on the internet and allows for greater speeds and higher quality interactive services.

Intune already employs 100 people in Dublin and Belfast.

Hi Guys,

Now I know people will shoot this down as the government being opportunistic hoping that 30k jobs will come from this but I for one actually believe this will happen. I have been looking at 'intune' over the last few months and the laser technology they use will revolutionise broadband infrastructure. I do believe finally this is fantastic news and could give us the edge we need in the current enviroment. What do everyone think?

Onikage

The word exemplar makes me think "speculative".

Doesn't explain anything about last mile etc, is it FSO technology?

I'd have better comments if they had anything more than a vague plan and "maybe 30,000 jobs".

irishcarbomb2k

It uses a technology in the fibre cables that splits the laser. Essentially the technology allows broadband speed to remain constant as it takes away the need for switches. It can guarantee the speed of any broadband connection. Its a new technology that was developed here in Ireland.

Cabaal

...the growing amounts of internet traffic sure as hell are not in Ireland, who are they kidding with Midband, 3 and the NBS

Epeen

Look at the state our broadband is in at the moment. We're years behind other countries and despite some people still not able to even get broadband, people that do have it like myself dont even get a usable service.

and the laser technology they use will revolutionise broadband infrastructure

If this happens, by the time it does we will STILL be years behind everyone else. Id rather they got the broadband fixed and up to date NOW rather than planning for the future.

Onikage

Ok, clearly I misread the article. This technology will be sold/licensed FROM Ireland, not necessarily used IN Ireland. That actually sounds really good.

jor el

Onikage wrote: »

This technology will be sold/licensed FROM Ireland, not necessarily used IN Ireland.

So unless one or more of the ISPs in Ireland licence this, it won't really do anything for broadband here. It may result in jobs, but do nothing for broadband. We'll have to wait and see, I guess, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for super-duper broadband being around the corner, just because it was developed here.

vibe666

sounds great. they can use it to split up all the traffic that ISN'T on all the abandoned MAN fibre they installed in all the towns around Ireland over the last few years. :mad:

traffic around Navan & other towns was disrupted for months whilst they installed all the fibre, but nothing ever came of it.

the www.meathbroadband.ie website disappeared a while ago and all that's left is a press release or two on the industria networks website from 2006.

sorry, bit of a rant there. just get annoyed that they keep going on about the next new thing even though nobody ever seems to be able to finish the last new thing. :mad:

the most annoying thing for me is that they left the sign up outside navan telling everyone about the super fast broadband revolution coming to meath in 2006!

come to think of it, I'm currently using ntl 20mbps. what are the chances that UPC are using the navan MAN for the back end of that?

Onikage

vibe666 wrote: »

come to think of it, I'm currently using ntl 20mbps. what are the chances that UPC are using the navan MAN for the back end of that?

See for yourself:

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/E+net+win+contract+to+manage+MANs.htm

http://www.enet.ie/news.php?newsid=49

watty

So we can get 80Gbps or whatever per fibre.

All we need is Fibre to the Curb or Home (FTTC, FTTH) and backhaul fibre installed for the MANs that haven't got any.

It will be great for export to Finland, France, Spain etc.

jor el

All the news reports on Today FM are saying how this is going to upgrade broadband access all over the country by rolling out high speed fibre across the country. Is this what's happening here, because I don't see any evidence of that?

watty

That's a rhetorical question? I mean you don't expect a sensible answer.
Ryan also said this:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055627370

vibe666

Onikage wrote: »

See for yourself:

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/E+net+win+contract+to+manage+MANs.htm

http://www.enet.ie/news.php?newsid=49

thanks for the info Onikage (i keep thinking Oinkage when I see your name, lol), good to know that they are actually in use finally.

Bulmers

I'm not too clear on this, Intune is primarily a R&D house as far as I know, i know they work in the area of tunable lasers for optical networks which is a type of holy grail to do all switching on the optical layer ( this used to be it anywya when i worked in the area 5/6 yrs ago..)

But are Intune going to become now a network provider in Ireland using this technology, i.e will they install a brandnew network, run and operate it etc..

I'm just not too clear on what this means, where does this leave e-net so, or will there be a tie in there aswell somehow?

bk

Bulmers wrote: »

But are Intune going to become now a network provider in Ireland using this technology, i.e will they install a brandnew network, run and operate it etc..

No they aren't, they are just continuing to develop their technology and sell it to fibre companies around the world.

However your confusion is completely understandable as the Minister Of Comms and others are trying to make out this is more then it is using their double speak.

Onikage

+1 bk

There is no connection. Eamonn Ryan wants to launch a couple of pet projects and this was a good opportunity to talk them up by co-opting Intunes announcement.

skywalker_208

Epeen wrote: »

Look at the state our broadband is in at the moment. We're years behind other countries and despite some people still not able to even get broadband, people that do have it like myself dont even get a usable service.
.

Not according to Minister Ryan on the Last Word yesterday evening. According to him we are years ahead of the US and UK...

jor el

Bulmers wrote: »

But are Intune going to become now a network provider in Ireland using this technology, i.e will they install a brandnew network, run and operate it etc..

That was my question too, and I was hoping against hope that someone could shine a light on the answer. Alas, it's no more than smoke and mirrors, once again, from the man who knows less about broadband than he does about reproductive cycle of squirrels.

Rather_b_diving

You are unfortunately correct Jor_el !!

With 10G ethernet and 100G ethernet on the way this technology will be expensive and proprietary - ATM was also a very good technology but too expensive compared to Ethernet and thus NGN uses IP and Ethernet

Anyway the main thing is you need fibre - mr Ryan would be better off talking about getting some men and vans out to start building a fibre network rather than talking about technology that can't be used.

watty

ATM was designed to aggregate X.400, X.25 and ISDN traffic. It's not IP friendly.

Rather_b_diving

You're absolutely right - designed for B-ISDN which is an excellent design with proper CoS and QoS built in.

Issue was in mid 90's it was 10 times the price of an ethernet device.

How much will Intune devices cost vs 10G carrier ethernet?

Bulmers

[PHP]Minister Ryan told siliconrepublic.com that the one-stop shop to pull together all the stranded fibre assets owned by the State that could tie together 90pc of Irish urban centres will be ready to operate in early autumn, and will connect the Exemplar Network to the country’s 94 Metropolitan Area Networks (MANs) that encircle key towns.[/PHP]

I guess from above so it means that the product / tech Intune are working on will be connected to the national fibre networks, most likely the e-net one providing these high capacity switches at the ends of the fibre?

while the announcement sounds good, it's not clear really where these numbers are coming from or where there new smart jobs will be, or what they will be..

watty

To do that they need to actually install fibre. Even old fashioned monochrome fibre will do. Simplistically the "intune" stuff is just boxes at each end of the fibre. The fibre is just the same. No doubt it could give extra capacity to the existing MANs that are lying idle due to cost of last mile and backhaul.

So who is paying for installing (= string from poles or dig trench) the missing fibre links? Thats the expensive bit. Not the boxes at the ends.

Onikage

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0722/1224251065190.html

Some "interesting" quotes, buzzwords and numbers.

dubhthach

vibe666 wrote: »

thanks for the info Onikage (i keep thinking Oinkage when I see your name, lol), good to know that they are actually in use finally.

I recall getting a fibre installation from the Galway MAN back in 2006 for previous job we only got a 10Mbit/s SLA from Magnet but it was fun downloading stuff from Heanet at 70Mbit/s

Basically we were allowed burst for about to above the 10Mbit/s for 1% of the time. Lets just say I was quick to put a limit on the outside port of the firewall.

watty

I'm still baffled.

Where physically and when are the actual fibres of the "Exemplar" network going?
http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/government-announces-new-strategy-for-digital-and-clean-technology-in-irela/

Who is paying?

Who will own it?

Intune Networks, the Irish telecoms equipment design company, was today named to lead the Government's programme to build Ireland's Exemplar Smart Network, creating 350 jobs.

Smart and all as these guys are, why would a fibre opto-Electonics terminating R&D house get a contract to manage a Fibre Roll out?
http://www.aibcorporate.com/servlet/Satellite?c=CBContent&channel=C001&cid=1177400304721&pagename=CorporateBanking%2Faib_corporate_banking&storyid=1214399692676

That would be like paying Cisco or Juniper to install new phone lines.


The answer to the mystery is near the end in this news item (full of candy floss).

http://www.bizplus.ie/news/3275

Ryan also signalled that that the government is to spend €5m to €10m installing technology developed by Irish company InTune Networks on parts of the government's internet backbone as a way of showcasing an 'Exemplar Smart Communications Network'.

Sorry Folks, No NEW fibre
This is just going to be letting Intune "testbed" their gear on some of our existing eNet and HeaNet fibre. Nothing to see... Move along folks.

Rather_b_diving

The Government doesn't really have a lot of fibre most of the Gov VPN is contracts through CMOD with service providers. Do you think they are going to ask Smart or British Telecom to test the stuff for them?

Its a pity we're letting facts get in the way of a nice news story :-)

watty

eNet (MANs) and HeaNet (University/College network) are Government owned. AFAIK.

dubhthach

Rather_b_diving wrote: »

Thing with Fibre is the cost of installation of fibre is the same whther you're getting 10Mbps or 1000Mbps (equipment might be a little more expensive) but digging the road and then reinstating it afterwards is the big cost.
Intune networks might be really cool but it doesn't eliminate that cost.

And it would appear Mr Ryan has forgotten that - or maybe this is where the 30,000 jobs will come from?

Well you would be surprised with the amount of ducting that is already in the ground. For example all the recent motorway schemes already have ducting in them. Same with the gas pipeline that Bord Gais built up to Mayo. You tie that in with the MAN's and it's a massive amount of Ducting/Fibre that wasn't there 5years ago.

Of course the problem is that it's all managed by different semi-states (NRA/ESB/Bord Gais etc.) if they do manage to put it all together into the so called "One stop shop" then things can only improve. I wouldn't hold my breath though!

dubhthach

watty wrote: »

eNet (MANs) and HeaNet (University/College network) are Government owned. AFAIK.

Also ESB and Bord Gais (Aurora Telecom) fibre networks.

Rather_b_diving

There's loads of fibre nationally but even where there is a MAN it costs between 5 & 10K to actually connect it into an existing premises, unless you're doing bulk drops so all the motorways in the country won't get fibre into homes or businesses.

And without the fibre into the building Intune networks is about as much good as a chocolate teapot.

watty

dubhthach wrote: »

Also ESB and Bord Gais (Aurora Telecom) fibre networks.

Indirectly, yes, in sense that Government owns ESB today. But under ESB control. Likely to be sold.

watty

dubhthach wrote: »

Well you would be surprised with the amount of ducting that is already in the ground. For example all the recent motorway schemes already have ducting in them. Same with the gas pipeline that Bord Gais built up to Mayo.

Apparently a lot of it has no pull cords/nylon and unsuitable for blowing fibre (that's really just inside buildings) and not suitable for robot/remote gadget to pull in. Duh!

SpongeBob wondered about training rats or ferrets to haul in nylon fishing line.

There has been a lack of joined up thinking. I don't expect ESB will want people experimenting on their operational fibre. There a good few unlit MANs still they can try. Other companies also have prototype 50Gbps etc laser gear for fibres too.

Unless they are adding a big lot of new fibre (according to a plan of joined up thinking), this is a fairly meaningless announcement in terms of Irish Infrastructure. I mean is this going to give anyone extra Broadband or make any end user's Broadband faster, or reduce dependency on Mobile?

Hello? I seem to have been disconnected.

oscarBravo

watty wrote: »

eNet (MANs) and HeaNet (University/College network) are Government owned. AFAIK.

e-net isn't government owned. The MANs belong to the local authorities, I believe, but e-net is a private company with a government contract.

laugh

Wouldn't this allow more capacity at each mobile tower / adsl exchange ? Or is that even a problem today?

watty

Not an issue. The PEAK speed needed for a mobile mast is about 35Mbps. Average throughput is typically 6Mbps fully loaded with 3 sectors. Oddly you can only get the peak with only 1 person per sector near mast. With 10 users simultaneously per sector the speed drops dramatically.

The Exchanges use eircom's completely separate ATM fibre & microwave network, which eircom are upgrading to an IP network with more capacity. A Fibre cable typically has separate fibres each of wich does 1Gbps or 10Gbps. Other companies are trialing up to maybe 60 or 80Gbps per fibre. Intune is not the only company with multi-colour either.

Isn't the Local Authorities Government? Or have they been privatised like the bins.

Sponge Bob

watty wrote: »

SpongeBob wondered about training rats or ferrets to haul in nylon fishing line.

But the Department of Communications and Comreg both refused to add my NGN Rat / Ferret training programme to their NGN strategies .

We are at an impasse without these rats and ferrets !

nohopengn

dubhthach wrote: »

Of course the problem is that it's all managed by different semi-states (NRA/ESB/Bord Gais etc.) if they do manage to put it all together into the so called "One stop shop" then things can only improve. I wouldn't hold my breath though!

Wise words... anybody holding their breath for this gov to do the right thing is fooling themselvs. The recent announcement is good news for Intune networks - they'll get funding and access to Gov networks to promote their technology. With a bit of luck they'll come up with some good deals and make plenty of money selling their technology.

This will not do anything to improve the end user broadband access speeds for the next 5 years - at least(under the current administration). The simple fact is that our gov are simply not at the races when it comes to broadband and it's importance. Over the last 9 years different reports have been written by the likes of ForFas etc. and they all state that 'the Digital Economy is a priority'. Actions speak louder than words and our FF led governments over the last 9 years have done sweet fxxk all.

Look at where we are our broadband is now - businesses buy an Eircom or BT packages advertised 7Mbps that maybe just maybe delivers 2Mbps. Buy SMART 24 and you'll be lucky if you get 5-8Mbps (even from the SMART exchanges).

The Cisco broadband quality report compiled last year stated that a minimum of 3.75Mbps down and 1Mbps upload with a ping of sub 95ms was required for todays (or last years Internet). I'm sure you've all read the report but it's worth glancing at just to realise how much focus and cash our government have to spend to get us out of our 2nd world communications infrastructure. Will they do it? If it's based on track record you'd have to say NO. They'll instead take the easy option and build more MANs' which doesn't address the real issues of last mile access and of cost.

1 year ago Poland was beside us and every other EU country ahead of us. If the tests were run again, I would say we have now slipped behind Poland. 3G might work as spin for politicians, but for those of use that want the real thing - it just doesn't cut it. Sad but true :-(
http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/downloads/Broadband_Quality_Study_press_presentation.pdf

watty

Have you a link to this Cisco report? Or is it the PDF link you gave?

The Oireachtas 2004 report expected us to all have better than 8Mbps universally by 2008!

As such the Joint Committee believes that the Government should adhere to a target for the widespread availability of 5Mps services to residential users by 2006 and that this should then increase to a level of approximately 10Mps by 2008. If the potential of broadband is to be realised however, larger bandwidths will have to be made available in the short term to bodies such as schools, libraries and health care facilities.

At the start of 2008 summer holidays over 40% of secondary schools still used < 5Mbps two way satellite.

nohopengn

here's the link to the pdf:- http://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/NR/rdonlyres/EF6BB01E-355B-4F18-9F1B-CA57E20A720A/0/CiscoBroadbandQualityrelease.pdf

The establishment don't seem to have the willingness/capacity to overturn the status quo - there's absolutely no innovation coming from the Dept of Comms or from ComReg.

At a Q&A session a few months back, Minister Ryan referenced Comreg as a body that was innovative and coming up with research. If you speak to the Comreg commissioner, he says that they are just regulators... and they don't conduct research but they do have a 'test and trial' process.

There's an obvious mismatch of expectations. Personally I think there should be a determined focus on NGN - this cannot be achieved by a Minister who also has energy and natural resources included in his portfolio. I know Lenihan was appointed minister for state with some overlap with communications, but the whole thing is muddled and unclear.

We need people with vision, innovation and determination - sadly there are very few with those qualities in the current government.

watty

Test & Trial are simply two licence Categories. I'm very familar with their usage. Totally up to industry, who need LOANS or Real INVESTMENT (not leveraged buyouts) to do rollouts. A 100K to 500k can test an idea. A few Million to develop it in the lab first. About €40M to €500M to roll it out nationally.

Comreg does no innovation and their consultations are so hedged that Innovative ways to combine spectrum blocks or reuse spectrum are not considered.

Damien360

watty wrote: »

Have you a link to this Cisco report? Or is it the PDF link you gave?

The Oireachtas 2004 report expected us to all have better than 8Mbps universally by 2008!

At the start of 2008 summer holidays over 40% of secondary schools still used < 5Mbps two way satellite.

I remember that report and there was another soon after. At the time, Shane Ross was running with this and attempting to get across that speed alone was not enough. Plus published speed and real speed were vastly different monsters. Nothing really done at all.

On the comments regarding the "smart economy". Has anyone actually put forward an idea of what the country will do with faster speeds. Is there a real benefit or is it just percieved benefit. i.e. we have fast broadband so therefore we must be a first world economy. What buisness will it attract that would otherwise go elsewhere ?

On a final note. The EPA's have fibre broadband to their sites around the country. The idea was, that they could conduct meetings by video feed. Unfortunatly, that impacted on the travel expenses of the users attending the meetings. So they abandoned that and continue to meet every 2 weeks at each of the EPA sites in turn so that everyone gets a share of the mileage expenses. A small example of "smart economy" at work in a government workplace. That story is a first hand account from employees I have to visit as part of my employment.

watty

I think the 1st priority is universal real broadband. We are well away from that.

Then maybe 2 or 3 tiers of speed for Rural, Suburban and Urban. Maybe 3 .. 10, 8 ..25 and 20 .. 200 for the three tiers.

bk

Damien360 wrote: »

On the comments regarding the "smart economy". Has anyone actually put forward an idea of what the country will do with faster speeds. Is there a real benefit or is it just percieved benefit. i.e. we have fast broadband so therefore we must be a first world economy. What buisness will it attract that would otherwise go elsewhere ?

Let me tell you a story, back in 1982, the Conservative party in the UK where interested in a new technology called cellphones, not many understood the technology and like you many questioned it's usefulness.

They gave two licenses, one to BT and another to a little known radio manufacturer called Racal Electronics. Racal beat BT to launching their network and now that little known company is called Vodafone, the largest mobile phone company in the world with a turnover of £75 billion and over 300 million customers!!!

If we build a top quality broadband network, who knows what advancements could develop from it. The next Bill Gates, Google, facebook could be created by some teenager in his family's farm in County Donegal.

But even more then that, do you think any multinationals would have come to Ireland in the past if every home in Ireland didn't have electricity, or if we hadn't a decent phone network or a well developed mobile phone networks?

The answer is no and the must have infrastructure for any developed country in the new millennium that wants to capture high end, high education services and R&D industries is high speed fiber broadband networks everywhere.

This isn't something we want to piss about on, not only are we way behind advanced countries like Sweden and Norway, but with are quickly falling behind developing Central and Eastern European countries like Lithunia, Poland, etc.

Damien360 wrote: »

On a final note. The EPA's have fibre broadband to their sites around the country. The idea was, that they could conduct meetings by video feed. Unfortunatly, that impacted on the travel expenses of the users attending the meetings. So they abandoned that and continue to meet every 2 weeks at each of the EPA sites in turn so that everyone gets a share of the mileage expenses. A small example of "smart economy" at work in a government workplace. That story is a first hand account from employees I have to visit as part of my employment.

That just shows the stupidity, inefficiency and greed of the Irish government and civil service.

I work for a major US multinational and I manage to work very productively every day using a variety of technologies with engineers in 4 different time zones (US, Central Europe, India and China).

nohopengn

watty wrote: »

I think the 1st priority is universal real broadband. We are well away from that.

Then maybe 2 or 3 tiers of speed for Rural, Suburban and Urban. Maybe 3 .. 10, 8 ..25 and 20 .. 200 for the three tiers.

Totally agree..... countrywide ubiquitous broadband must be a priority. And yes there should be tiered goals.

Damien360's account of people not using technology because of mileage claims, is something that must be addressed by senior management.
Leadership is required and this must come from the top down.

With regards to benefits or perceived benefits, I think BKs' story 'hit the nail on the head'. With decent broadband coverage Ireland Inc immediately gets noticed by from foreign firms and more importantly we can do the following:
1. Improve our education system - remote collaboration
2. Introduce eHealth solutions
3. Reduce carbon emissions (NGN's are green)
4. Setup intelligent transport systems
5. Specialise in sensor networks
6. Gaming and IPTV

These are just some of the applications that we as a nation could focus on becoming specialists in.

A swedish report estimated that a min of 10Mbps would be required by 2012 for standard web browsing.

finally, earlier this year it was announced that Koreans will have access to a 1Gbps broadband service by 2012.

http://gigaom.com/2009/02/01/by-2012-koreans-will-get-a-gigabit-per-second-broadband-connection/

Damien360

nohopengn wrote: »

With decent broadband coverage Ireland Inc immediately gets noticed by from foreign firms and more importantly we can do the following:
1. Improve our education system - remote collaboration
2. Introduce eHealth solutions
3. Reduce carbon emissions (NGN's are green)
4. Setup intelligent transport systems
5. Specialise in sensor networks
6. Gaming and IPTV

These are just some of the applications that we as a nation could focus on becoming specialists in.

This is the stuff the government is waffling about.

1. Our education system will not change until the teachers allow it. No amount of remote collaroration will change that. "we have the best education system in the world". Crap. We don't even have a basis for any system other than mindless ingestion of facts. No real science or thinking allowed.

2. eHealth solutions. I am making a stab at this. Would this be remote doctors and nurses to provide support. Take a look at the resistance to cancer treatment centres and their centralisation to see how that one will go down.

3. Carbon emisions. Not sure how that will reduce. I always think that seems like the paperless office holy grail.

4. Intelligent transport systems. Again, requires civil service allowing any change. You can plan to your hearts content but the unions will shoot it down on loss of income.

5. Sensor networks. I have'nt a clue what this is so i will not waffle.

6. Gaming and IPTV. Gaming may really push the envelope of broadband speeds eventually. The more info is shared then the more bandwidth and speeds will be required. Specialising in this requires a hell of a lot of money. Costs vs growing economys costs may kill this. IPTV, same stuff, different carrier. It might introduce competition for UPC and SKY. Can see government forcing bog 1 and 2 on the world.

Please do not take my waffle as a critisism. I am a pesimist by nature. This thread has been the only real debate I have seen or heard on this. This is how a debate works for me. I waffle and someone corrects me.

I take BK's point on growth of vodafone from unknown technology but did the UK government actually invest seriously in the technology at the same level of funding our government is being asked to invest. Cell phones has had a massive impact on how buisness is performed. I can see broadband doing the same with more centralised data systems for employees on the road (my case) but will higher speeds really achieve anything better in this regard.

I 100% agree with WATTY and the 3 tier broadband. Danger there is rural Ireland complaining of being left behind again as jobs focus on higher speed areas. At what point will 3Meg become useless again if we are to believe the Swedish report that 10meg will be minimum standard required by 2012. And then the whole cycle starts again.

Again, I am not critising at all. If you don't speak up then you might as well accept the results and shutup even when you are not in favour.

damien

bk

Hi Damien, of course there is nothing wrong with debate. The problem I have is that I've been having this debate for well over five years.

In the distant past I've debated with top people in Eircom and with government ministers about if we even needed broadband and if there was any demand for it here in Ireland. Well we all now know how ridiculous that debate was and which side won.

I see the debate over the need for high speed broadband in much the same light and in particular what worries me is that while we sit around here debating it, our economic competitors in Europe and developing countries have been busy actually digging up roads and laying fibre over the last 4 years. For them there is no debate, it is a piece of vital national infrastructure that any developed country in the digital millennium absolutely must have.

While we debate, we are falling dreadfully far behind our competitors.

Sorry if I seem to be avoiding your points, by I honestly believe the time for debate is over and the time for action is here.

jimmycrackcorm

Rather_b_diving wrote: »

There's loads of fibre nationally but even where there is a MAN it costs between 5 & 10K to actually connect it into an existing premises, unless you're doing bulk drops so all the motorways in the country won't get fibre into homes or businesses.

And without the fibre into the building Intune networks is about as much good as a chocolate teapot.

Don't get me started on the MAN costs. At work there is a fibre connection from a man. However the cost for 8mb broadband on it is €1500 per month so we have a couple of cheap DSL connections instead.

watty

Is it €10,000 to get a connection to the MAN?

Agree with BK.

Our own Oireachtas had a realistic picture of what had to be done in 2004 for universal Broadband. We didn't do it.

The Government loves Debate as it means not spending and not making decisions. It gives the illusion of Progress. The NGN consultation was a waste of time and re-issued a cut down version of a previous report.

High Speed fibre to everyone is similar or lower cost than the Dublin City /Airport rail/Metro link thingy. What is the comparitive Economic Value, or is the Link so that TDs can get a Flight easier.

By the time our elected officials and unelected Quangos (Comreg etc) have decided that we need Fibre, High Performance Fixed Wireless Broadband in 800MHz for long reach Rural 10Mbps per user and that pay DTT is a wasteful failure (which will waste over 250M over 4 year and go bust with debts of 90M if it goes ahead), we will STILL be no better off than today in Real Broadband Availability and most of Europe will have had Fibre for 5 years.

Rather_b_diving

watty wrote: »

By the time our elected officials and unelected Quangos (Comreg etc) have decided that we need Fibre, High Performance Fixed Wireless Broadband in 800MHz for long reach Rural 10Mbps per user and that pay DTT is a wasteful failure (which will waste over 250M over 4 year and go bust with debts of 90M if it goes ahead), we will STILL be no better off than today in Real Broadband Availability and most of Europe will have had Fibre for 5 years.

Comreg's unability to create a stable competitive broadband environment is one of the reasons that we are in the position we're in. However as I've mentioned in other posts we have a regulator who has stated at the Telecom's Internet Federation conference last year that we don't need high speed. Doherty is moving on to Europe next year so not only wil we have no highspeed network in Ireland but he'll make us look like complete muppets to our european counterparts.

nohopengn

Damien360 wrote: »

This is the stuff the government is waffling about.

1. Our education system will not change until the teachers allow it.

2. eHealth solutions. I am making a stab at this...

3. Carbon emisions. Not sure how that will reduce. I always think that seems like the paperless office holy grail.

4. Intelligent transport systems. Again, requires civil service allowing any change. You can plan to your hearts content but the unions will shoot it down on loss of income.

5. Sensor networks. I have'nt a clue what this is so i will not waffle.

6. Gaming and IPTV. Gaming may really push the envelope of broadband speeds eventually. The more info is shared then the more bandwidth and speeds will be required. Specialising in this requires a hell of a lot of money. Costs vs growing economys costs may kill this. IPTV, same stuff, different carrier. It might introduce competition for UPC and SKY. Can see government forcing bog 1 and 2 on the world.

Please do not take my waffle as a critisism. I am a pesimist by nature. This thread has been the only real debate I have seen or heard on this. This is how a debate works for me. I waffle and someone corrects me.

No worries Damien360 - I don't take it personally. I think we are all more or less on the same page, however just to clarify the 6 points.

1. education - I agree with you, anything to do with changing teachers unions etc. is a bit of a lost cause. I see an NGN improving education by simply enabling children good quality Internet access, so that they can use it for research, education and communication services - I know a few parents who are paying a fortune for their kids mobiles. I could go on, but you get the jist...

2. The term eHealth - covers a number of areas e.g. Virtual medical teams, Telemedicine (all types of physical and psychological measurements that do not require someone to travel for a specialist), mHealth (mobile devices collecting patient data, providing healthcare information to practitioners, researchers, and patients), Electronic Health Database/records (getting rid of paper trails) and Health Information Systems. Oh and finally, if you're not happy with the local doctor, presumably you'd be able to access a virtual specialist, once you can pay for it :-)

4. Intelligent transport systems (ITS) - yes the unions may well shoot down anything that could change their work practices without getting more money, however rather than focusing on the perceived deployment issues, we should first look at how it's going to improve things. Dublin traffic is an absolute nightmare for most of the year. If an ITS can reduce congestion/pollution and speed up drive times, then I'm all for it. Also if we had an NGN all those new innovative ITS companies what need a test base could locate themselves in Ireland.

5. Sensor networks are typically used to monitor physical or environmental conditions, such as temperature, sound, vibration, pressure, motion or pollutants. E.g. they use sensor networks on the goldengate bridge in San Francisco.

6. Gaming and IPTV. Some of you may remember learning the BASIC programming language as an intro to programming. There is now a gaming programming language built on BASIC called Blitzmax - theres no reason in the world why Irish 10 - 15 yr olds couldn't become Blitzmax specialists - that's just one example. Re:IPTV - as many of you know, Ireland is on the brink of capitalising on it's 'Digital Dividend' - once the analogue switchover is complete in 2012. The availability of new radio spectrum (under 1Ghz) offers massive potential to Ireland Inc. Lastly with regard to cost, the cost to develop gaming/iptv applications is coming down all the time - there's a book worth reading called wikinomics. It's all about how the internet makes remote collaboration work and how costs can be savagely reduced.


3. The introduction of Teleworking keeps emissions down. Sorry for being so short on this one but I've got to go....