Old Big Cars on a budget - am I mad??

mcirl2 · 21-07-2009 4:04pm #1

Hi,

I am looking to buy a car right now and I really want to buy an older big car as there is way better value for money (less demand for one). They are way more comfortable, powerful etc and I dont mind paying the extra insurance / tax but I just got a few questions:

Im looking at the following car models: Saab 900 3dr 2L, Saab 9000 CSE 2L, Saab 95 2L or Volvo S70 2L.

I dont know much about any of these cars but which would you guys choose in terms of reliability. I heard Saabs can be a nightmare but I really want the 9000 as they are v good value - Im just terrified that if something goes wrong its cost a bomb.

Also is the MPG really awful on these 2L models. I know it wont be great. I do a mix of City / Longer drives but would 30MPG be ambitious.

My head says buy an almera / escort / astra but my heart tells me buy one these - I had an escort for yrs and hated it so much, so Im thinking if I had one of these cars I'd enjoy it much more.

My budget is about 1500 (not a lot I know but I dont mind driving 1995 saab 900 - dont care about the year).

What would you guys do - should I be as worried about the running costs as much as I am or should I just go for it?

Any advice / similar experiences would be greatly appreciated!!

Mike

Anan1 · 21-07-2009 4:07pm

Buy a car that's been well cared for and you should be fine. Go over the service history with a fine-toothed comb, and have the car examined prior to purchase by someone you trust.

quarryman · 21-07-2009 4:16pm

Bigger cars mean bigger bills. Generally a big old BMW/Merc will be cheap to buy but tax, fuel, tyres, repairs will all add up.

Luxo-barges can sometimes be a false economy.

tfitzgerald · 21-07-2009 4:23pm

i know how you feel, i like to drive a big car too i had a 2 litre car before and the petrol cruicfied me every time i passed a petrol station i had to pull in and as for the tax it was like a second mortage to me i now drive a 1.6 mondeo and i still get the big car feel but with out the pain in the pocket,any way best of luck.

robtri · 21-07-2009 4:27pm

as you have pointed out, these are old cars.... very nice but old cars...
as a result you will have to expect repairs and maint. to be more frequent than newer models.

Unfortuantely repairs for these cars are more costly, but on the other side is that there are a lot of these cars in breakers yards so used parts are usually a good way to go.

as ANAN1 said, do your homework, service history is key here, with a full inspection by a mechanic and hopefully you could pick up a good one.....

BrianD3 · 21-07-2009 4:40pm

Those cars are not really "big" by modern standards, for instance the Saab 900 and 9000 are smaller than a year 2000 Mondeo. The 9000 in particular is an old design - around 25 years - and things move on. You might be disapponted with the refinment, comfort etc. of these older exec cars compared to more modern family car.

In terms of reliability, the badge means very little in this price and age range, what does matter is condition of each individual car you look at. To put it bluntly, most cars that you'll come across will be crap. Multiple idiot owners, dodgy bodywork repairs, clocked, not maintained etc. Rather than restricting yourself to Saabs and Volvos in my view you should consider any decent example of any make that you come across

Anan1 · 21-07-2009 4:42pm

tfitzgerald wrote: »

i know how you feel, i like to drive a big car too i had a 2 litre car before and the petrol cruicfied me every time i passed a petrol station i had to pull in and as for the tax it was like a second mortage to me i now drive a 1.6 mondeo and i still get the big car feel but with out the pain in the pocket,any way best of luck.

There's only €169pa difference between a 1.6 and a 2.0 for road tax.;)

mickdw · 21-07-2009 5:55pm

tfitzgerald wrote: »

i know how you feel, i like to drive a big car too i had a 2 litre car before and the petrol cruicfied me every time i passed a petrol station i had to pull in and as for the tax it was like a second mortage to me i now drive a 1.6 mondeo and i still get the big car feel but with out the pain in the pocket,any way best of luck.

I wouldnt call a 2.0 a big engine. I also wouldnt agree that a 1.6 mondeo would give you any kind of a big car feel. As for the fuel saving, it wouldnt be major between 2.0 & 1.6 if equivalent type/age cars were compared

tfitzgerald · 21-07-2009 6:22pm

well to me a mondeo is a big car and i cant think of any cars that are much bigger unless you go for a 4*4 which i cant afford

Volvoboy · 21-07-2009 6:26pm

I really dont think you can class a Mondeo or Avensis a ''big'' car.

Even a Merc E class i wouldnt consider to be a big car, what i would consider is a S-Class, 700 Series BMW.

Mr Benevolent · 21-07-2009 6:27pm

well to me a mondeo is a big car and i cant think of any cars that are much bigger unless you go for a 4*4 which i cant afford

You're not trying!

Lexus LS400
BMW 7 series
Mercedes S Class

All much bigger, heavier and better built cars for their age. Especially compared to a SAAB 900/9000. Point is you're not going to get a older luxury car with a 2L engine.

I hate to say this but if you don't have the cash to fix the problems that crop up with an old car then you're better off with a more modern car. Alternatively, wait until you have the money to buy something better than an old SAAB. An extra €2000 would give you so much more choice.

Barr · 21-07-2009 7:06pm

What about a 9-3 Diesel , cheap to run and are quite cheap like this one

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200928194555767

colm_mcm · 21-07-2009 7:15pm

that 2.2 engine isn't too hot though.

Barr · 21-07-2009 7:24pm

Performance wise they are slow and unrefined but at least their economical.

Tipsy Mac · 21-07-2009 7:40pm

I'd go for something proper big, 3-4litre engine big, here's a nice bargain that would cost close on 100k new, yours for €3950 and I'd say that's negotiable

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200929194643149

Some great deals out there on Lexus LS400's and S320's, really a buyers market for these cars. Bad thing is road tax at over €1500 a year but balance that out with the 3-4k depreciation on a Golf or Focus and they start to make sense for someone not putting up big mileage.

Mr Benevolent · 21-07-2009 8:11pm

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=200929194643149

Whoa, that's some car

LS400 '00 69k miles

Maxima '00 61k miles

bazz26 · 21-07-2009 8:20pm

Something like this is old, big and cheap:

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=130518&cat=2

old boy · 21-07-2009 8:26pm

quarryman wrote: »

Bigger cars mean bigger bills. Generally a big old BMW/Merc will be cheap to buy but tax, fuel, tyres, repairs will all add up.

Luxo-barges can sometimes be a false economy.

i drive a 190e, an i can safely say, your quote sir is bull****e.

Lancaster7 · 21-07-2009 9:15pm

how about some real class?

I have a 96 Jag XJS 4.0 not long out of NCT and is booked in on the 18th Aug

average miles mechanically sound pictures available.....I'll let go for 1500€ just to make space on the drive for something more "exotic"

beertons · 21-07-2009 9:27pm

bazz26 wrote: »

Something like this is old, big and cheap:

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=130518&cat=2

Has a nice reg too!

Interceptor · 21-07-2009 9:37pm

It really boils down to your annual mileage and how much you know about cars. If you buy a really clean, well minded, low mileage old barge it will go for ages without much in the line of care - you're not planning on keeping up the main dealer servicing I'm sure. A €1500 car which gives a years service without breaking down owes you nothing - if it dies, buy another one!!

I have a '99 Subaru Outback 2.5 petrol manual (ELV from breakers yard - NCT fail for emissions - €40 second hand sensor fixed it) and it routinely returns 35mpg, I paid €700 for it and apart from oil/filters, petrol and the odd bit of roadtax it is as cheap to run as any '04 Focus when you factor in the lack of depreciation. (My annual mileage is less than 10k btw - I mostly use my mo'bike)

I like the Saab 9000 but the CSE's are getting rare. Oh and don't buy a 9-5 or 9-5 3.0 Griffin.

'cptr

Matt Simis · 21-07-2009 9:39pm

tfitzgerald wrote: »

i know how you feel, i like to drive a big car too i had a 2 litre car before and the petrol cruicfied me every time i passed a petrol station i had to pull in and as for the tax it was like a second mortage to me i now drive a 1.6 mondeo and i still get the big car feel but with out the pain in the pocket,any way best of luck.

Good god, how limited your car life must be to consider 2litre big. So sad.

quarryman wrote: »

Bigger cars mean bigger bills. Generally a big old BMW/Merc will be cheap to buy but tax, fuel, tyres, repairs will all add up.
Luxo-barges can sometimes be a false economy.

He isnt looking at luxo-barges cars, he is applying the label "big" to what is considered average elsewhere in a typically pedestrian irish manner.

Interceptor · 21-07-2009 9:44pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

Good god, how limited your car life must be to consider 2litre big. So sad. He isnt looking at luxo-barges cars, he is applying the label "big" to what is considered average elsewhere in a typically pedestrian irish manner.

The OP is a typical Irish motorist - his scope is limited by what he sees surrounding him. You on the other hand must have grown up in Dubai...

Do Texaco send you a Christmas card every year? Phaeton? Me like...

'cptr

coolbeans · 21-07-2009 9:46pm

old boy wrote: »

i drive a 190e, an i can safely say, your quote sir is bull****e.

Two point:

A 190 is by no means a big car so I really don't know what you're trying to say.
Mercs and Beemers of that vintage will, almost inevitably involve big bills. I just moved on a 300CE 24V. Cars like this cost a lot of money and unless you're buying something more like an LS400 or a Legend you're unlikely to get lucky.

Mr Benevolent · 21-07-2009 9:55pm

Interceptor wrote: »

Phaeton? Me like...

Did you sell it yet Matt?

AÆ · 21-07-2009 10:12pm

coolbeans wrote: »

Two point:
A 190 is by no means a big car so I really don't know what you're trying to say.

Mercs and Beemers of that vintage will, almost inevitably involve big bills. I just moved on a 300CE 24V. Cars like this cost a lot of money and unless you're buying something more like an LS400 or a Legend you're unlikely to get lucky.

Agreed on the 190 (used to own one)..

But older Mercs dont really cost that much...I used to have an 94 W124T and it cost me nothing except running costs...(does drink juice but ride quality is excellent...still miss it..) I would suggest the owner look into a w124 merc.....those CEs are very nice ...but probably better to look at a 2 litre with the lower tax...

OP...since u like saabs and volvos...i would look at a Volvo 850 estate...i was looking at getting one once and my research showed me that they really are a great solid car.

Here is one for 1500...probably could get it for 1200

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/850/200928194530342/advert?channel=CARS

Anan1 · 21-07-2009 10:26pm

coolbeans wrote: »

Two point:
A 190 is by no means a big car so I really don't know what you're trying to say.

Mercs and Beemers of that vintage will, almost inevitably involve big bills. I just moved on a 300CE 24V. Cars like this cost a lot of money and unless you're buying something more like an LS400 or a Legend you're unlikely to get lucky.

A 190E is small. And, speaking from experience, you're right.

Seweryn · 21-07-2009 10:29pm

AÆ wrote: »

Agreed on the 190 (used to own one)..

But older Mercs dont really cost that much...I used to have an 94 W124T and it cost me nothing except running costs...(does drink juice but ride quality is excellent...still miss it..) I would suggest the owner look into a w124 merc.....those CEs are very nice ...but probably better to look at a 2 litre with the lower tax...

The W124 would be an interesting option. These cars are not expensive to run. There is no timing belt to change and all service and mainenance is limited to very simple DIY work (oils, filters, lubricate hinges, wiper and locks, etc.). Any parts are cheap and widely available.

Anan1 · 21-07-2009 10:41pm

Seweryn wrote: »

The W124 would be an interesting option. These cars are not expensive to run. There is no timing belt to change and all service and mainenance is limited to very simple DIY work (oils, filters, lubricate hinges, wiper and locks, etc.). Any parts are cheap and widely available.

I dunno. In principle you're right, but the newest of the pre-facelift W124s is now 16 years old. They are great cars but they do cost money to maintain. I had a 320E with the 5spd auto (which made the car, IMO) but even a 230E will need money spent to keep it sweet. I wouldn't even look at a post-facelift W124, but maybe that's just me.

coolbeans · 21-07-2009 10:46pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I dunno. In principle you're right, but the newest of the pre-facelift W124s is now 16 years old. They are great cars but they do cost money to maintain. I had a 320E with the 5spd auto (which made the car, IMO) but even a 230E will need money spent to keep it sweet. I wouldn't even look at a post-facelift W124, but maybe that's just me.

Out of curiosity, what's your perception of a post facelift W124

Personally I'd be going for an LS, a Legend or even a Xedos 9 all with full service histories. All the good Benzs are too old and I've heard and seen too many problems with all Beemers, big and small. I'll admit I have no personal experience of any of these larger cars but the way the Japs put together their econo-boxes would give me great confidence in their luxobarges.

AÆ · 21-07-2009 10:54pm

The post facelift models are the 94/95 models....they have dual passenger airbags and (i think) led light on the drivers door handle....(well mind had anyway)

just reading this

All W124 engines use a cam chain rather than a cam belt. The chain has no specified replacement interval and should last the life of the car
http://www.w124.co.uk/modelrange.html

mike65 · 21-07-2009 10:57pm

Anan1 may be thinking about -

Rusty wings and biogradable wiring (only an issue on the 6 cyclinder models), some issues with the electronic 5 speed autobox (old school 4 speed is pretty much bombproof) and some weakness in the front suspension (but nothing that can't be fixed).

Seweryn · 21-07-2009 10:58pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I dunno. In principle you're right, but the newest of the pre-facelift W124s is now 16 years old. They are great cars but they do cost money to maintain. I had a 320E with the 5spd auto (which made the car, IMO) but even a 230E will need money spent to keep it sweet. I wouldn't even look at a post-facelift W124, but maybe that's just me.

The pre-1993 are a bit better built cars, thats right, but I had both and I have to say that the face lifted models are still a lot better than any competition at the time.
These cars do cost money to maintain, of course, but they do not cost any more than a small car (well, you would need more oil for the service) and still a lot less than any modern car, which needs to be pluged in to a computer. W124 can be easily serviced by an average DIY mechanic and that's the biggest advantage of that car.

VolvoMan · 21-07-2009 11:34pm

tfitzgerald wrote: »

i know how you feel, i like to drive a big car too i had a 2 litre car before and the petrol cruicfied me every time i passed a petrol station i had to pull in and as for the tax it was like a second mortage to me i now drive a 1.6 mondeo and i still get the big car feel but with out the pain in the pocket,any way best of luck.

Honestly mate, words fail me.:rolleyes: It wouldn't have crossed your mind by the way that having such a small engine in a big car like that means it has to work overtime and therefore waste more fuel?

I have a Volvo S70 by the way and I regard it very highly.

coolbeans · 21-07-2009 11:53pm

Here's a suggestion, I'd knock at least a bag of sand off the price though... http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mazda/Xedos-9/2.5-auto/200909191968301/advert?channel=CARS

and another...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mazda/Xedos-9/200926194440309/advert?channel=CARS

and another...high miles, actually not they're not high at all considering...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Lexus/LS400/AUTO-MAT/200919192702727/advert?channel=CARS

nice...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Lexus/LS400/4.0-FULL/200926194398571/advert?channel=CARS

this is definitely a Yakuza car...i'd have it
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Honda/Legend/3.5I-V6-/200802187790483/advert?channel=CARS

...crap pic but nice wheels and colour. These cars can look ice cold cool with the right wheel/colour combo. They've also got a lovely five cylinder warble even at low revs. Dealer's asking too much though. http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/V70/2.5-10V/200840190228639/advert?channel=CARS

Anan1 · 21-07-2009 11:55pm

coolbeans wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what's your perception of a post facelift W124

Well, they took a great car and made it uglier, more prone to rust, and less reliable.

VolvoMan · 22-07-2009 12:22am

coolbeans wrote: »

...crap pic but nice wheels and colour. These cars can look ice cold cool with the right wheel/colour combo. They've also got a lovely five cylinder warble even at low revs. Dealer's asking too much though. http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volvo/V70/2.5-10V/200840190228639/advert?channel=CARS

That price is the going rate for an 'R'. The guy who is selling it has it advertised incorrectly as a 2.5 10V, and is like advertising a BMW M5 as a 525i. In addition to that, the guy hasn't bothered his arse to take proper pictures of the car, going somewhat towards explaining why it hasn't shifted.

coolbeans · 22-07-2009 12:55am

VolvoMan wrote: »

That price is the going rate for an 'R'. The guy who is selling it has it advertised incorrectly as a 2.5 10V, and is like advertising a BMW M5 as a 525i. In addition to that, the guy hasn't bothered his arse to take proper pictures of the car, going somewhat towards explaining why it hasn't shifted.

Oh right, I thought it was a 10v. The price is right so...where's my cheque book?

AÆ · 22-07-2009 1:36am

Anan1 wrote: »

Well, they took a great car and made it uglier, more prone to rust, and less reliable.

Uglier...?....Where....?........besides clear indicators...u would need to be very observant to notice any changes...

Vertakill · 22-07-2009 2:26am

Interceptor wrote: »

The OP is a typical Irish motorist - his scope is limited by what he sees surrounding him. You on the other hand must have grown up in Dubai...

That's so true, and quite funny to boot!

There's plenty cars out there where the larger engine model (say, 1.6/1.8 compared to 2ltr or 2.5 compared to 2ltr) is actually more economical because the engines got more power, meaning less stress.

You'd love to go around door to door with a big fish and slap everyone in the face who instills this kind of notion into other people.

- Bah.. Volvoman made exact same point about bigger engine a few posts up. /lazy

mike65 · 22-07-2009 9:46am

Maybe Anan1 likes the preface w124s bolt-on grill design.

Anan1 · 22-07-2009 9:51am

AÆ wrote: »

Uglier...?....Where....?........besides clear indicators...u would need to be very observant to notice any changes...

The bonnet, headlights & grille are different, as are the rear lights & bootlid. The facelift car looks as though someone's thrown acid in its face.

Matt Simis · 22-07-2009 11:44am

Confab wrote: »

Did you sell it yet Matt?

Took a deposit yesterday.. but not selling it exactly. Im taking a cash sum plus part trade of a low mileage, facelift 2003, UK Reg Porsche Boxster S (ie the good one, 3.2L flat 6) with the view to selling it in the UK, where people dont have the "omg over 2.0L!" reaction. The Boxster is holding its value really well (over there anyhow).

Case in point on "big engines dont mean woeful economy", the Porsche guy showed me the average MPG on his trip up from storage (its a "summer car" only for him) in Wexford, 34mpg. 34mpg from a 3.2L 260BHP Cabriolet. I was impressed.

Anan1 · 22-07-2009 11:54am

Matt Simis wrote: »

Case in point on "big engines dont mean woeful economy", the Porsche guy showed me the average MPG on his trip up from storage (its a "summer car" only for him) in Wexford, 34mpg. 34mpg from a 3.2L 260BHP Cabriolet. I was impressed.

I'm appalled, TBH. You get 260bhp or 34mpg, not both. And I know which i'd choose.

Matt Simis · 22-07-2009 11:56am

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm appalled, TBH. You get 260bhp or 34mpg, not both. And I know which i'd choose.

Lol, yeah, presumably not driven the way Id drive it either, but it shows what its capable of!
Ill give an unbiased report of "proper" driving mpg when I get my hands on it.

CyberGhost · 22-07-2009 1:17pm

mcirl2 wrote: »

They are way more comfortable, powerful etc and I dont mind paying the extra insurance / tax but I just got a few questions:

Im looking at the following car models: Saab 900 3dr 2L, Saab 9000 CSE 2L, Saab 95 2L or Volvo S70 2L.

Sigh, only in Ireland would a 2 litter car be considered "powerful".

sogood · 22-07-2009 1:23pm

Confab wrote: »

You're not trying!

Lexus LS400
BMW 7 series
Mercedes S Class

All much bigger, heavier and better built cars for their age. Especially compared to a SAAB 900/9000. Point is you're not going to get a older luxury car with a 2L engine.

I hate to say this but if you don't have the cash to fix the problems that crop up with an old car then you're better off with a more modern car. Alternatively, wait until you have the money to buy something better than an old SAAB. An extra €2000 would give you so much more choice.

I drive a 1990 735 and wouldnt swap it. It is the epitome of luxury cruising, with lots of power and acceleration and is still a little understated, not as obvious as a merc or a jag. Running costs arent prohibitive at 28ish mpg, though road tax at €1,500 per annum is a pain. I do pretty much all my own work on it, which is a great saving. Get a good one and you wont go too far wrong as the straight six m30 engine is pretty bullet proof. They arent as easy to come by as you might think, but easily available in the UK with very good examples on autotrader. Of course VRT is an issue then. I happen to know where theres one for sale, a 1992 730, needing a little tidying, but with lots of engine work done to it before it was laid up 2 years ago and its going for a song. Basic model though, no leather etc. Would have considered it myself otherwise.

Just my tuppence worth.

Matt Simis · 29-07-2009 6:03pm

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm appalled, TBH. You get 260bhp or 34mpg, not both. And I know which i'd choose.

I can give a more educated reply now.
Have the Boxster S now, my other half is driving it to work. Neither of us have driven a manual in 2 years, so likely we will fine tune it a good bit over time. She is getting 30.5mpg on her trip from work (50% motorway, 70km), that was her second attempt. She was getting 31mpg in the Phaeton.

I took it to the shops yesterday, 5km trip, messing around revving it in the wrong gears and braking hard the whole way, 23mpg. The thing is just really really efficient IMO, you can easily get good economy and mess around in it.

galwaytt · 03-08-2009 9:46pm

Matt Simis wrote: »

I can give a more educated reply now.
Have the Boxster S now, my other half is driving it to work. Neither of us have driven a manual in 2 years, so likely we will fine tune it a good bit over time. She is getting 30.5mpg on her trip from work (50% motorway, 70km), that was her second attempt. She was getting 31mpg in the Phaeton.

I took it to the shops yesterday, 5km trip, messing around revving it in the wrong gears and braking hard the whole way, 23mpg. The thing is just really really efficient IMO, you can easily get good economy and mess around in it.

....still planning to sell it in the UK ? Curious, as Boxster prices have never been as low in the UK as they are now.........

...the other thing is........just saw 'Customs' and the taking of the 7-series off the guy.....watch it on the commute, if still on UK plates........

Heroditas · 03-08-2009 9:51pm

galwaytt wrote: »

...the other thing is........just saw 'Customs' and the taking of the 7-series off the guy.....watch it on the commute, if still on UK plates........

Haha I saw that too.
Funny thing was that he had a toll tag up behind the rear view mirror - kind of a giveaway that he was based in RoI the whole time!

StealthRolex · 04-08-2009 11:01am

This is an interesting thread - buy new with low tax or an older luxury model with higher tax but no depreciation.

I drove a W124 300 CE coupe when I lived in the UK and it wa a bargain - low tax compared to Ireland, low insurance, low maintenance and depending on mileage and oil speculators reasonable fuel costs.

Like an eejit I gave it up when I returned to this fair isle for a 1.4 french family hatch. Ok, lowish tax, lowish insurance but the fecker broke my heart in AA call outs even though it was ten years younger than my old merc.

So now I'm in the market for a W124 coupe with a 3 or 3.2 engine. My only gripe will be the tax and I have already costed the insurance and maintenance as reasonable.

What will I get? Bulletproof 220+ hp engine, luxury cruise cabin, timeless styling and the power and build to leave those idiots in their underpowered "green" "VRT friendly" buckets where they belong - miles behind me.

And when I leave the country again - and let's face it, from Tescos to Taoiseachs this place is going from bad to worse - the car will go with me until she can go no more.

There's a reason why people die on Irish roads and it's because Green cars are killing them.
Buying and driving tax friendly cars is like buying an house with ceilings 1 inch higher than you are - it's a false economy in terms of survival. Not to mention it is pandering to ill-informed environmentalist bandwagoneers.

IMHO

Old Big Cars on a budget - am I mad??

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