DOE for campers

stapeler

I favour the introduction of some form of test to ensure the safety of vehicles. I'm sure there's MHs & Campers out there that would never pass a test.
Having had a look at the Light Commercial Vehicle Testers Manual on www.transport.ie I think it covers all the basics, I do feel however that the test should go further to ensure the safety of gas appliances and the electrical system (after all we have to have certified electrical and gas installations in our homes).
I think the Government/RSA has blundered the introduction of the test. There should have been some form of consultation with the manufacturers/clubs etc to determine best course to take.
As yet, I've not received any official notification that my MH needs testing, my tax is due for renewal in Feb so perhaps by then they may have notified me. Until I'm told officially that I need a test I won't be going out to book one.

I know of one club that plans to legally challenge this introduction, I feel a better action would be to sit with the RSA/Dept of Transport etc and reach a compromise on the test.

loobylou

A legal challenge will be utterly pointless. It's just a kneejerk reaction and will go nowhere. Whats wrong with campers being tested for safety? Why should we be treated more preferentially than anyone else on the road? When I bought my camper in Germany it had to have a valid TUV, ditto for UK and probably every other country in the EU.
The issue of DOE v NCT, Private v commercial, VRT etc. is also just a smokescreen. I would imagine the reason it is proposed to conduct the test at a DOE centre is that the NCT centres would not be properly equipped to test vehicles as large as motorhomes, regardless of their tax classification.

paddyb

i think most people dont have a problem with the test, its the lack of warning/information that is the issue.

dollydishmop

stapeler wrote: »

As yet, I've not received any official notification that my MH needs testing, my tax is due for renewal in Feb so perhaps by then they may have notified me. Until I'm told officially that I need a test I won't be going out to book one.

Agree wholeheartedly with this :thumbsup

For what its worth, I taxed my campervan today....this afternoon, in the local motor tax office, over the counter, dealing with a real live human being.

Wasn't asked for a DOE cert.;)

And when I made tentative enquiries (*after* she'd handed me my disc!) she didn't know what I was talking about, and neither did her supervisor.

So that should be another 12-months DOE-free motoring for me

zagmund

Gah, now you've alerted them . . .

It wasn't Nutgrove, was it ?

z

Aidan_M_M

We rang the SIMI last week , as a member for years .. And they didn't know what we were talking about in relation to the Motorhome DOE . Useless twats...
I agree in principle with a test , but I fear the DOE/NCT aren't "proper" tests for our Motorhomes . I'd be much more concerned with the Gas and 200v Electric's installation than the stamp on the Polycarbonate windows.. WE've been hammering the RSA every few days in work over the cock-eyed way they're going about this. At least they've relaxed their stance on Motorhomes over 3500kg needing Comercial Vehicle Reflective stickering...

About the only good thing that I can see coming is that all the dangerous vehicles will be taken off the road and either fixed or retired .. At least we'll get a better class of trade-in in the next few years..

One thing I will point out to all you Ducato owners...as a mechanic.. Check your Metal Brake Pipes , and Front Crossmembers , before you go to the DOE . On all Ducatos up to about 1997 , the pipes rot like you wouldn't believe.. and on the 94/95 to '02 Ducato , the front crossmember rots away also .

Karg

loobylou wrote: »

A legal challenge will be utterly pointless. It's just a kneejerk reaction and will go nowhere. Whats wrong with campers being tested for safety? Why should we be treated more preferentially than anyone else on the road? When I bought my camper in Germany it had to have a valid TUV, ditto for UK and probably every other country in the EU.
The issue of DOE v NCT, Private v commercial, VRT etc. is also just a smokescreen. I would imagine the reason it is proposed to conduct the test at a DOE centre is that the NCT centres would not be properly equipped to test vehicles as large as motorhomes, regardless of their tax classification.

Most people are not arguing a safety test, it is the fact that they have effectiviely made us drive illegal even though we have engineers report, tax and insurance without any official warning - people are only hearing about this on the grapevine

Slidey

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

One thing I will point out to all you Ducato owners...as a mechanic.. Check your Metal Brake Pipes , and Front Crossmembers , before you go to the DOE . On all Ducatos up to about 1997 , the pipes rot like you wouldn't believe.. and on the 94/95 to '02 Ducato , the front crossmember rots away also .

Also the top shock bearings are renowned for breaking up. You will hear a cracking or banging noise as you lock and they may start to drift to one side when driving if it is only one side.

Aidan_M_M

Slidey wrote: »

Also the top shock bearings are renowned for breaking up. You will hear a cracking or banging noise as you lock and they may start to drift to one side when driving if it is only one side.

Very true...It still amazes me the amount of hopeful trade-ins I test drive and the LHS one is completely shot! Or , like you said , with the thrust bearing seizing.



On another note.. where would one actually go to get a tachograph fitted to a newer Vehicle , like say a twin rear axle'd Ducato powered A-class?

Billy Bunting

That also goes for Citreon Relays, just done my nearside top bearing.

Slidey

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Very true...It still amazes me the amount of hopeful trade-ins I test drive and the LHS one is completely shot! Or , like you said , with the thrust bearing seizing.



On another note.. where would one actually go to get a tachograph fitted to a newer Vehicle , like say a twin rear axle'd Ducato powered A-class?

Any HGV DOE centre I would imagine would be able to fit one.

They are not cheap and if it was registered after July '06 (AFAIR) it will need to a digital tacho that is fitted. You are lookin at 1000 minimum

Karg

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

We rang the SIMI last week , as a member for years .. And they didn't know what we were talking about in relation to the Motorhome DOE . Useless twats...
I agree in principle with a test , but I fear the DOE/NCT aren't "proper" tests for our Motorhomes . I'd be much more concerned with the Gas and 200v Electric's installation than the stamp on the Polycarbonate windows.. WE've been hammering the RSA every few days in work over the cock-eyed way they're going about this. At least they've relaxed their stance on Motorhomes over 3500kg needing Comercial Vehicle Reflective stickering...

About the only good thing that I can see coming is that all the dangerous vehicles will be taken off the road and either fixed or retired .. At least we'll get a better class of trade-in in the next few years..

One thing I will point out to all you Ducato owners...as a mechanic.. Check your Metal Brake Pipes , and Front Crossmembers , before you go to the DOE . On all Ducatos up to about 1997 , the pipes rot like you wouldn't believe.. and on the 94/95 to '02 Ducato , the front crossmember rots away also .

Couldn't agree more with the gas/electrics part - the test is necessary to get the wrecks off the road, but it needs to be fair and proportionate to the type of vehicle...and as per my first post, they've known about this for nearly five years - should've warned us!!!!!

loobylou

Karg wrote: »

Most people are not arguing a safety test

Most here are not, but my post referred to the threatened legal challenge from one of the motorhome clubs. In their view it's even a reason to vote against the Lisbon Treaty. Let's all keep a sense of proportion on this.

Karg

Hi there - I know we have to keep a sense of proportion but I know plenty of camper/motorhome owners that would have appreciated the opportunity of having been warned in the last four years. From the legal standpoint, can this be enforced to the letter of the law if there, still to date has been no official notification of this? Do you remember when the NCT came out first, there was endless warning about it.

Karg

paddyb wrote: »

you wont need a cert if the windows are glass (only non-glass):


Non-glass glazing: The owner / presenter of the vehicle must produce a certificate or documentation from
the manufacturer or glazing installer stating that the glazing material is not likely, if fractured, to produce
fragments capable of causing severe cuts. A copy (not the original) of such documentation should be
retained by the test centre.

Hi Paddy, our local DOE centre says that unless the glass (real glass or plastic) is safety stamped between the two layers with specific marks (see the HGV DOE user manual on RSA website) that it will not pass unless you can produce a certificate from the manufacturer. I know people who bought proper non glass camper windows from a camper accessories supplier, they are marked with a sticker and they have been told this is not sufficient. These are legit camper windows and they still won't pass them, its maddening!

loobylou

Nothing (much) has changed. As far as I understand, this has been in effect since 2004 but nobody has paid a blind bit of notice to it.
As I have posted before, commercial vehicles must have a DOE in order to get roadtax disc. Ergo, to the Guards, a current tax and insurance disc displayed are all that are legally necessary. There is NO requirement to display anything else.
You do NOT require a DOE cert to tax a campervan. Therefore,
if stopped, once you have a valid tax and insurance disc displayed you are within the law.
I accept that it is not altogether as simple as that according to the regulations but this has been the way it has been for the last number of years and nothing has changed overnight.
Anybody driving a camper with valid tax and insurance has nothing to fear!

Karg

somewhere on the attorney general website it says that there are penalty points for non display of the DOE, I'll try find the link again and post it. While what you are saying about the 2004 thing is true (link on my first post). It was not applicable to campers until the RSA came along and said that campers are to be classed as goods vehicle in their circular dated 21st July. So this really is new to most camper owners.

Karg

mickwor1111 wrote: »

http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/esi/2009/B26834.pdf

doesn't list the amount of points but as per this persons earlier post...

paddyb

i know someone whoes camper passed the doe today. Test centre had never heard of getting campers tested but did it anyway.
It has plastic windows and nothing was mentioned.

blue42

mickwor1111 wrote: »

its true , all motorhomes need to have a DOE , traffic corps in Limerick are enforcing it big time

I would have tought the cops in limerick would have more to worry about than campervans!!

Billy Bunting

paddyb wrote: »

i know someone whoes camper passed the doe today. Test centre had never heard of getting campers tested but did it anyway.
It has plastic windows and nothing was mentioned.

I have tried 3 DOE centres for a test, all have told me they dont test campers, i enquired with the local licencing authority and was told that there is no catogory for campers and if i wanted to test it i would need to take it back to a van, he also said that all campers are taxed as private vehicles for pleasure purposes, how can a commercial vehicle be classed as a private vehicles for pleasure purposes. :rolleyes:

:eek:

Macspower

Back to the local DOE centre today and they said they definately won't be testing campers as they know nothing about them...

I'll wait and see how it pans out in due course..

I too agree with some form of testing but it has to be relative to use... every year is too much and the cost also need to be relevant

while on the subject of Ducatos my leaf spring bushings are creaking... when I spray them with WD40 they stop for abouyt a day... when i greased them with spray grease I thought that was it but it lasts about 3 days.. Do I need to replace them or are thye just "dry"?

Karg

Macspower wrote: »

Back to the local DOE centre today and they said they definately won't be testing campers as they know nothing about them...

I'll wait and see how it pans out in due course..

I too agree with some form of testing but it has to be relative to use... every year is too much and the cost also need to be relevant

while on the subject of Ducatos my leaf spring bushings are creaking... when I spray them with WD40 they stop for abouyt a day... when i greased them with spray grease I thought that was it but it lasts about 3 days.. Do I need to replace them or are thye just "dry"?

Probably just dry - soapy water just as good!

zagmund

Last time I checked the government didn't need to tell everyone about every law (other than, you know, enacting it and stuff), so I wouldn't be relying on the "but they never told me, yer onor" line in court. They don't have to . . .

Having said that, I still plan on not worrying about it until I get stopped or it really, really does get clarified somewhere.

Aidan/Slidey - any chance of a photo of a cross-member for the less technically aware among us ? That way I can check if mine is rotting or not. I got the van serviced a while back and I'm pretty sure they said something about the brake pipes rotting away (which they fixed) so I'm good on that front.

It was a bit scary at the time hearing that the brake pipes were rotting. I had images of driving down the M50 or something with brake fluid pumping out, in a panic, like in the movies . . .

I can't imagine the cross-member rotting being much better. I have images of the engine falling through the floor now or the van losing stability and one side falling off as I tootle down the M50, assuming the cross-member is something that holds the engine in/sides together.

z

Aidan_M_M

zagmund wrote: »

Aidan/Slidey - any chance of a photo of a cross-member for the less technically aware among us ? That way I can check if mine is rotting or not. assuming the cross-member is something that holds the engine in/sides together.

z

Don't have a pic... but if you find your front tow-hook , its welded to the crossmember . Right behind the bottom of your plastic bumper . Generally its a black pressed steel item , it doesn't locate the engine , instead it ties the two chassis legs together at the front . It also supports the Radiators. Held on with 3 long bolts , either side , you'll need an 18mm socket to open them .

mickwor1111

I got my 97 Hymer doe'ed Friday in Limerick , €100 for test , €120 for weight plate €30 to get it weighed , it costs €120 for them to put on the side and rear reflective strips so I bought the strips myself and a little extra for €120 and put them on myself ,if anyone wants to buy strips of me ofr the camper feel free to mail me ( €50 for the 2 sides and back and if u r around clare area call in and i will put it on 4 u even ( rather than give them €120 to supply and fit ) , and also once u finish the doe and pass it they give u a cert which still is not the finished product .... u have to bring it to tax office and exchange it for a certicicate of roadworthiness which will cost u €20 to buy , .....thank god we live in a country that traet their people justly

Macspower

mickwor1111 wrote: »

I got my 97 Hymer doe'ed Friday in Limerick , €100 for test , €120 for weight plate €30 to get it weighed , it costs €120 for them to put on the side and rear reflective strips so I bought the strips myself and a little extra for €120 and put them on myself ,if anyone wants to buy strips of me ofr the camper feel free to mail me ( €50 for the 2 sides and back and if u r around clare area call in and i will put it on 4 u even ( rather than give them €120 to supply and fit ) , and also once u finish the doe and pass it they give u a cert which still is not the finished product .... u have to bring it to tax office and exchange it for a certicicate of roadworthiness which will cost u €20 to buy , .....thank god we live in a country that traet their people justly

Limerick seems to be the spot for the DOE's

Let me ask you... why did you go for the DOE? were you asked to go? Or did you decide to do it yourself...

I'm all on for some sort of test but a yearly DOE is not the answer IMO.. After some of the efforts at campers I've seen this weekend a test is necessary to get these off the road or safe!

mickwor1111

Macspower wrote: »

Limerick seems to be the spot for the DOE's

Let me ask you... why did you go for the DOE? were you asked to go? Or did you decide to do it yourself...

I'm all on for some sort of test but a yearly DOE is not the answer IMO.. After some of the efforts at campers I've seen this weekend a test is necessary to get these off the road or safe!

Because a friend of mine got stopped and was told if he did not produce this cert he would get fined and points , its fine sying not to do it but unfortunately the legislation is there (albeit noone but the limerick gardai knows about it ) and until they change this law you will get done for it , but i agree totally about the annual DOE , thats fine for trucks doin 50,000 miles a year but a motorhome that will possibly do 3000 or 4000 its rediculous

mickwor1111

blue42 wrote: »

I would have tought the cops in limerick would have more to worry about than campervans!!

lol i kno feck sake , maybe we should start an outlaw motorcaravan club !!! THE HELLS CAMPERS !!!!!

Slidey

Just got an e-mail from the RSA.

Side markings, for the moment, do not have to be fitted to campers over 3.5t