DOE for campers

niloc1951

Irishgoatman,
Next time tell them to look in ANNEX II, A 'Definition of vehicle categories and vehicle types' Paragraph 5.1, (pages 64 &65).;)

It's little wonder this country is in the sh1te it's in :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Irishgoatman

I'm sorry that my previous posting had to be edited.
I was giving credit to a civil servant who was not only prompt and pleasant with her email, but was also prepared to put her name in full, A very rare thing nowadays.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I'm sorry that my previous posting had to be edited.
I was giving credit to a civil servant who was not only prompt and pleasant with her email, but was also prepared to put her name in full, A very rare thing nowadays.

I've had dealings with the same person, she is very helpful and has been 'available' to at all times, except recently, perhaps she is on hols or off sick.
Being in the 'computer' section I would think that she would not have much of a 'say' in the issue, I would assume that clearing up the mess rests at a senior level, where it was created in the first instance.
Be prepared for the resolution to take quite a while as those in the area(s) with responsibility run for cover. After all, at a minimum, close to 10,000 corrected Vehicle Registration Certificates will have to be issued plus all other 'official' documents which consider 'motor caravans' to be vehicle category N1 will need to be redrafted to reflect the correct category M.

peasant

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I'm sorry that my previous posting had to be edited.
I was giving credit to a civil servant who was not only prompt and pleasant with her email, but was also prepared to put her name in full, A very rare thing nowadays.

That's precisely why you wouldn't want every nutjob and/or spambot to pick up her name from here and give her grief

The internet can be a wierd place and most people prefer to remain anonymous on it. Let's also extend that favour to civil servants, particularly the nice ones

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

I've had dealings with the same person, she is very helpful and has been 'available' to at all times, except recently, perhaps she is on hols or off sick.
Being in the 'computer' section I would think that she would not have much of a 'say' in the issue, I would assume that clearing up the mess rests at a senior level, where it was created in the first instance.
Be prepared for the resolution to take quite a while as those in the area(s) with responsibility run for cover. After all, at a minimum, close to 10,000 corrected Vehicle Registration Certificates will have to be issued plus all other 'official' documents which consider 'motor caravans' to be vehicle category N1 will need to be redrafted to reflect the correct category M.

You can guarantee that this correction of certs. will have to dealt with at the highest level and, yes, it's going to create a lot of headaches.
I will be leaving them alone to get on with it now but If I haven't heard anything positive by early in the new year I will be pestering my MEP and he can have a headache.

niloc1951

My latest information is that it has been accepted that 'motor caravans' are category M vehicles, various officials have now acquainted themselves with the relevant EU Directives.
HOWEVER the Dept. of Environment etc. in Mayo and the Revenue are currently kicking the issue between themselves as to which has responsibility for originating the error and who should institute the fix.
In the meantime the Dept. of Transport in Shannon are awaiting instructions before issuing amended Vehicle Registration Certificates

niloc1951

This morning in the post arrived a replacement Vehicle Registration Certificate for my 'motor caravan'. the EU Vehicle Category is now down as M
this now puts it firmly outside the categories of vehicle which are required, by the Irish Statute Book, to be road-worthiness tested under the DOE regulations.
Next step is now up to the RSA to organise testing facilities under the NCT regulations.
Watch this space.

Irishgoatman

Also received my new cert. this morning. We are getting somewhere at last.

Irishgoatman

Hi to anyone who has received a new, ammended, registration certificate,

Now that I have the correct category on my cert. I went onto the NCT booking website, typed in my registration number and, surprise surprise, they offered me a test date for the end of the month!
I might take them up on it just to see what happens. Has anyone else tried this?. My 'van is small, has anyone got a Winebago to try it with?

niloc1951

I tried yesterday but mine is does not exist on their data base. I phoned them this morning and was told "they did not do motor caravans" and that I should go to a DOE centre:rolleyes::rolleyes:

My motor caravan is 3,850 GVW

BTW the person I spoke to at the NCT customer service centre also said the the 3,500kg weight limit in the original specifications for the test had been done away with last year.

Irishgoatman

Hi niloc1951,

Can you explain your last paragraph for me please.

niloc1951

see paragraph 3 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1999/en/si/0395.html

I was told that the 3,500 kg limit was done away with last year

Reading that paragraph, 'motor caravans' appear fall into the NCT category 'vehicles having at least four wheels, which are designed and constructed primarily for the carriage of passengers and which have a maximum of 8 seats excluding the driver's seat'

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

see paragraph 3 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1999/en/si/0395.html

I was told that the 3,500 kg limit was done away with last year

Reading that paragraph, 'motor caravans' appear fall into the NCT category 'vehicles having at least four wheels, which are designed and constructed primarily for the carriage of passengers and which have a maximum of 8 seats excluding the driver's seat'

Have a look at S.I.no.588/2008
The last part says that weight limit has been removed.

niloc1951

Thanks irishgoatman, just had a look and added it to my growing file of 'relevant' stuff.
BTW i see the description “ ‘vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle having at least 4 wheels, which is constructed primarily for the carriage of passengers and which has a maximum of 8 seats excluding the driver’s seat.”. again in that S.I., it must be clear to all by now that the NCT test is the correct test for 'motor caravans'.
I've sent them another email tonight pointing out the above and requesting a test appointment at my local NCT centre as my motor caravan is still not showing on their data base so I can't make an internet booking and is due its first test as it's now 'four years since first use' .

Watch this space.

loobylou

Is there any chance of giving us a short synopsis of the situation, sort of DOE for Dummies. Cos I'm confused.

peasant

niloc1951 wrote: »

...it must be clear to all by now that the NCT test is the correct test for 'motor caravans'.
I've sent them another email tonight pointing out the above and requesting a test appointment at my local NCT centre as my motor caravan is still not showing on their data base so I can't make an internet booking and is due its first test as it's now 'four years since first use' .

Watch this space.

In all fairness, I think you're overshooting the target a bit there.

By the letter of the regulations the NCT test may well be the correct test for our vehicles, fact is though that they simply don't have the facilities to test all motorcaravans ...weight limit removed or not.

niloc1951

loobylou wrote: »

Is there any chance of giving us a short synopsis of the situation, sort of DOE for Dummies. Cos I'm confused.

The Dept. of Transport and the Revenue have agreed that their original categorisation of 'motor caravans' as Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of goods was wrong and have changed the category to Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers. So on the Vehicle Registration Certificate description (J) needs to be changed from N1 to M as set out in Commission Directive 2001/116/EC

Directive 96/96/EC and Directive 2009/40/EC when read in conjunction with Directive 2001/116/EC make it quite clear that 'motor caravans' are to be roadworthiness tested to the same criteria as 'Motor vehicles having at least four wheels, used for the carriage of passengers and with not more than eight seats excluding the driver’s seat', to you and me private cars

Therefore with reference to S.I. No. 395 of 1999 Road Traffic (National Car Test) Regulations 1999, commonly known as the NCT test, and S.I. No 771 of 2004 European Communities (Vehicle Testing) Regulations 2004, commonly known as the DOE test 'motor caravans' should be tested within the NCT regulations not the DOE regulations.

As of yesterday the NCT would not accept a booking from me to have my motor caravan tested because at this time they do not think it is their responsibility

So to paraphrase.
According to legislation in this country which covers the EU requirements on vehicle roadworthiness testing, motor caravans should be tested under the NCT test manual NOT the DOE test manual.

A 'motor caravan' is defined in Commission Directive 2001/116/EC as
Special purpose category M vehicle constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:
- seats and table,
- sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats,
- cooking facilities, and
- storage facilities.
This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.

niloc1951

peasant wrote: »

In all fairness, I think you're overshooting the target a bit there.

By the letter of the regulations the NCT test may well be the correct test for our vehicles, fact is though that they simply don't have the facilities to test all motorcaravans ...weight limit removed or not.

I understand your point peasant, but I would expect the NCT people to take a booking in the first instance as motor caravans fall under the 'NCT' test criteria.
If my local NCT centre can't accept all motor caravans because of size/weight limitations they could assign any too big to a local commercial garage accredited to do roadworthiness testing (DOE test centre!) to do the test under the NCT criteria.
This is how the situation is dealt with in the UK, if you're too big for the MOT test garage (for cars) you go the the VOSA test centre (for commercial vehicles) BUT it's an MOT test/cert you get from them not a VOSA one.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

Thanks irishgoatman, just had a look and added it to my growing file of 'relevant' stuff.
BTW i see the description “ ‘vehicle’ means a mechanically propelled vehicle having at least 4 wheels, which is constructed primarily for the carriage of passengers and which has a maximum of 8 seats excluding the driver’s seat.”. again in that S.I., it must be clear to all by now that the NCT test is the correct test for 'motor caravans'.
I've sent them another email tonight pointing out the above and requesting a test appointment at my local NCT centre as my motor caravan is still not showing on their data base so I can't make an internet booking and is due its first test as it's now 'four years since first use' .

Watch this space.

Hi niloc1951,

Just a thought, will your 'van fit in their testing lane? or will they have to build a special lane.
This appeals to my sense of humour.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Hi niloc1951,

Just a thought, will your 'van fit in their testing lane? or will they have to build a special lane.
This appeals to my sense of humour.

It would fit in their lanes all right but I wouldn't fancy it going through the shaky shaky proceeder six feet up in the air, imagine the mess that would make of her crockery and the rest of her stuff in the cupboards, even if it didn't fall off the ramp

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

It would fit in their lanes all right but I wouldn't fancy it going through the shaky shaky proceeder six feet up in the air, imagine the mess that would make of her crockery and the rest of her stuff in the cupboards, even if it didn't fall off the ramp

"Her stuff" ? hope for your sake she's not reading this.:eek:

Macspower

thanks for the details guys here and by PM ...

I'll get onto it..

As an aside.. I won't be screaming at the NCT to test my van though!

zagmund

I'm getting lost with all these SIs and other stuff . . . and to be honest I've given up watching this particular space as I'm not sure what point is being made any more other than campervans should be subject to NCT and not DOE. More or less the point made at the start of this thread unless I'm missing something.

z

Irishgoatman

zagmund wrote: »

I'm getting lost with all these SIs and other stuff . . . and to be honest I've given up watching this particular space as I'm not sure what point is being made any more other than campervans should be subject to NCT and not DOE. More or less the point made at the start of this thread unless I'm missing something.

z

The point being that, now we have got the authorities to change the EU catagory of campervans on the registration certificates, we are no longer required to have a DOE test.

Malta1

Irishgoatman wrote: »

The point being that, now we have got the authorities to change the EU catagory of campervans on the registration certificates

Can I ask a question at this point please

Do we all need to contact the VRU in Shannon to get out Certs updated or will this happen as a matter of course?


Cheers

niloc1951

Malta1 wrote: »

Can I ask a question at this point please

Do we all need to contact the VRU in Shannon to get out Certs updated or will this happen as a matter of course?


Cheers

The answer is I don't know. I sent mine back and they sent re a corrected one.
It should be very easy with the I.T. available to them to schedule a job where the category is changed for all motor caravans in their database and corrected Certs printed and posted, however, they may also only issue corrected certs on demand.

Why not give them a ring and let us all know what they say.

Des32

I rang Shannon on Friday, they told me to post on my cert and they will issue a new cert.

Irishgoatman

"The Road Safety Authority is currently drafting a Public Consultation document on vehicle testing. This consultation document will invite stakeholder feedback on the testing of camper vans, campers and motor homes.
We will be happy to include your contact details to our stakeholders list. Please advise if you would like to be included in the circulation of this document in which we intend to address the issues you have raised."


The above is part of a reply I received from the RSA in Ballina, Co Mayo after contacting them regarding tests.
I've given them my contact details and I, humbly, suggest that others do the same. At least we will have a bit of input into any suggestions they come up with.

niloc1951

Following my sustained communications with the RSA, the Dept. of Transport and the NCT, I got a telephone call from Tom McHale, Principal Engineer, Head of Vehicle Standards, RSA, the week before last.
Like Irishgoatman this call was to let me know that I am to be included in the distribution of the consultation document which is being prepared to provide information on the issue and to facilitate feedback from stakeholders prior to making any changes in the testing regime.

I would point out that the above reference to "making any changes in the testing regime" is a mute point, as there currently exists NO testing regime applicable to motor caravans, in Irish legislation.

In the meantime I have successfully had my motor caravan correctly categorised by the DoT at Shannon in accordance with Directive 2001/116/EU, which has officially taken it out of the vehicle categories to which the Irish DOE legislation applies.
I am also continuing my campaign to get my motor caravan tested as per the NCT test manual and get a two year certificate, as directed by the EU Directive 2009/40/EC.

Irishgoatman

In the email I received from the RSA, which I quoted, there is no mention of "Making changes" just that they are prepareing a consultation document. This implies that they accept that there is no set means of testing campervans.
If we all sign up to be on the mailing list it will show a united front. Also, if we keep this thread up-to date on any contact with the powers that be, rather than wait a week or two, it will help.