Critics

minusorange

You'll have to forgive me if I come across as just another cynical ba****d, but I'm starting to become disorientated with the whole idea of those really hard-nosed critics that seem to be everywhere.

I realise that everything should be open to discussion and interpretation. It just bugs me when some nerdy hack rip's apart somebody's work without any due recognition of the effort and balls it took to both produce and present the
feckin' thing.

"Those that can write, write. Those that cant write, review."

TedB

minusorange wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me if I come across as just another cynical ba****d, but I'm starting to become disorientated with the whole idea of those really hard-nosed critics that seem to be everywhere.

I realise that everything should be open to discussion and interpretation. It just bugs me when some nerdy hack rip's apart somebody's work without any due recognition of the effort and balls it took to both produce and present the
feckin' thing.

"Those that can write, write. Those that cant write, review."

I don't read reviews. I read reviews from ordinary people who have read the book on websites like Amazon or goodreads. Critics are a pack of morons, tbh.

Locamon

minusorange wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me if I come across as just another cynical ba****d, but I'm starting to become disorientated with the whole idea of those really hard-nosed critics that seem to be everywhere.

I realise that everything should be open to discussion and interpretation. It just bugs me when some nerdy hack rip's apart somebody's work without any due recognition of the effort and balls it took to both produce and present the
feckin' thing.

"Those that can write, write. Those that cant write, review."

In my review of this post I found it to be cynical and lacking a creative vision.

Hey only joking:D Anyone who writes a book and gets it published deserves lots of credit and one man's poison is another man's meat and all that:)

sceptre

minusorange wrote: »

"Those that can write, write. Those that cant write, review."

Some people do both, sometimes with little success in either.

I took a year out two years ago to edit my college's student newspaper and magazine and from that perspective it's not unimportant to remember that the critic (hated by all, so we sometimes call them reviewers instead) has also written a piece of work that can be loved or hated. I've written a few reviews that resulted in quite a few messages being sent my way by people who loved the reviews. And not on the basis of what was being reviewed, because praise from the reviewee usually isn't worth a damn - give them a good review and they'll love you, give them a bad one and they'll hate you. I've also written some less than stellar pieces but no-one ever wrote me about those.

Then again, I've read some appallingly badly written reviews. Some, unfortunately, in our national paper of record and some in the good British papers. Apart from the occasional low standard of writing and the sometimes stilted prose of some critics, often it's hard to tell whether they liked what they're reviewing. Theatre critics are the worst. It's often difficult to work out from their reviews whether they would actually recommend it or not, or to whom, and worst of all, it's sometimes difficult to figure out whether they actually went to see the play in question.

I could use an example from the (Irish) Times recently of a play I went to see, where the review was a pile of steaming poo which looked as though it was written by someone gagging to spit out a mouth stuffed with buzzword adjectives. That was just lazy. Though the play wasn't great either. The review wasn't bad because I disagreed with the reviewer (for the most part I agreed with her). It was just badly written. Appallingly badly written. And it got some of the names of the cast members wrong to boot (which is acceptable on its own, sometimes that happens - but when it's a badly written review as well it makes me wonder where the quality control went).

It could be worse. Due to lack of time when I ruled my own publication, I never got around to implementing the album review system I wanted. I had six album reviews per issue, about 350 words in each. For some people, 2000 words is a lot of reading. I was going to keep that but give myself a small corner of the page for the Seamus Reviews section. Ten albums listed per month followed by a simple "yes" or "no". Now that's dismissively hard-nosed.

Poppy78

Martin Amis does both quite well.

minusorange

Poppy78 wrote: »

Martin Amis does both quite well.

Christopher Hitchens is another.

I expect that between us both we could name quiet a few that fit the bill.

I cant however think of a renowned author who cut his teeth as a literary critic. I'm sure their out there somewhere. Although it doesn't seem as obvious a progression as author turned critic.

My 'problem' is with the people who most understand structure, plot, pacing, character development , etc.

Why don't they put these intellectual tools to good use? Shouldn't they know exactly what traps not to fall into when writing their masterpiece? After all they have made a career out of picking holes in other people's work. The logical thing to do would be to show us how it's done.

The same goes for film.

Mark Kermode is for my money Britain's leading film critic. But he does annoy me at times. Particularly when he's reviewing or discussing horror. Why does someone with a PhD in English and Horror Fiction not at least attempt to produce a piece of film (even a screenplay) that is consistent with the high standards he sets for everyone else? How could he resist. I would fuc**ng love to see a Mark Kermode movie.

ocianain

Orson Scoot Card used to have a column in Fantasy&Science Fiction called, Books I Like. Best critic ever, never ran anyone done, just told you about great books! The local Irish newspaper here did the same thing with their music review, talked about good albums. Got lots of good books and albums from those critics reviews.

turgon

I heard Anthony Burgess wrote something like 300 or 400 book reviews in the space of two years.

Hes obviously taken to be a good author, and the fact that the blurbs of Penguin Modern Classics quote him so much he most be renowned as a reviewer. I think. And thats a large "I think."

ocianain

A talented critic is someone who can add a depth of understanding one might otherwise miss. A hack critic is someone whose criticism adds nothing to your understanding, in realit it's all about the critic being the center of attention

buck65

Check out this gem!
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200107/myers

ocianain

Good stuff! He's spot on about McCarthy, never saw what all the bother was about.

ally2

That's a great article. He's brave in his opinions. Very funny on Proulx (I personally don't like her writing) but I think special scorn was reserved for DeLillo's White Noise. I like his assertion that a passage of White Noise represents: "a good example of how pathetically grateful readers can be when they discover—lo and behold!—that a "literary" author is actually trying to entertain them for a change."

bakkiesbotha

Aren't a lot of the more prestigious authors-turned-reviewers basically loss leaders for their publishers?

I.e. their own books don't sell enough to make money for the publisher but they are expected to give positive reviews of the publisher's more popular books and their good name drives sales.

MikeC101

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Aren't a lot of the more prestigious authors-turned-reviewers basically loss leaders for their publishers?

I.e. their own books don't sell enough to make money for the publisher but they are expected to give positive reviews of the publisher's more popular books and their good name drives sales.

I'd be inclined to doubt this - if their name isn't enough to sell their own books, why would a positive review from them be expected to drive sales?

bakkiesbotha

MikeC101 wrote: »

I'd be inclined to doubt this - if their name isn't enough to sell their own books, why would a positive review from them be expected to drive sales?

If they write the sort of books that will never sell a lot of copies and then endorse the sort of books that are intended to sell.

I can't remember where I read this, but John Banville was given as an example of it.

MikeC101

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

If they write the sort of books that will never sell a lot of copies and then endorse the sort of books that are intended to sell.

I can't remember where I read this, but John Banville was given as an example of it.

I suppose it's possible - but I'd see it more as a bragging point for a publisher, that they publish the x times Booker Prize winner etc...

I'm just unsure that a comment from say Banville, would lead someone who would never buy a book by Banville, to buy one by an unknown author with his name on it. I could see it working on someone who had bought a Banville book before.

Comments from Tom Clancy or John Grisham on the other hand, seem to have a big effect on sales.

It's interesting you mention Banville actually, I wonder how well his work sold before he won the Man Booker. The only thing I've read by him was Mefisto, and that was pre-Booker.

Locamon

MikeC101 wrote: »

It's interesting you mention Banville actually, I wonder how well his work sold before he won the Man Booker. The only thing I've read by him was Mefisto, and that was pre-Booker.

not very well I'd suspect given he writes thrillers under a different name

bakkiesbotha

I recently bought a book because Stephen Fry endorsed it. I wouldn't buy one of Stephen Fry's books even though I like him as a personality. I kind of figure him for someone with good taste, which doesn't necessarily translate into being a good author.

Incidentally the book was called something like the Scarlet and the Black (but not that, it was a spy story, not Stendhal). It ended up being one of those books where you take a break from it after 150 pages or so and read another few books, while still leaving it lying around and telling yourself you are reading it.

There should be a name for those types of books. Putdownable, maybe.

MikeC101

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

I recently bought a book because Stephen Fry endorsed it. I wouldn't buy one of Stephen Fry's books even though I like him as a personality. I kind of figure him for someone with good taste, which doesn't necessarily translate into being a good author.

That's a good point. Though the recognition factor for Fry is because of his TV work, not his books.

bakkiesbotha wrote: »

Incidentally the book was called something like the Scarlet and the Black (but not that, it was a spy story, not Stendhal). It ended up being one of those books where you take a break from it after 150 pages or so and read another few books, while still leaving it lying around and telling yourself you are reading it.

There should be a name for those types of books. Putdownable, maybe.

I know the feeling, and the type of book you refer to. I hate to leave a book unfinished, no matter how bad it is. Combined with my habit of starting to read other books while halfway through another, this leads to a selection of books scattered in various rooms with bookmarks stuck in them.

MikeC101

Locamon wrote: »

not very well I'd suspect given he writes thrillers under a different name

I'd thought that might be to disassociate his literary stuff from the genre fiction - it seems just as likely it's a money earner though.

MissRibena

Sometimes the reviews are better than the book. I read a review in one of the weekend supplements last year for 'Don't Sleep There are Snakes' (non-fiction book about an Amazonian tribe with unusual speech/communication methods). I was fascinated by the topic and really excited about the implications of the author's findings on received opinion. I got the book and it somehow managed to make an original great idea dull as dishwater.

I really wish I could remember who the reviewer was because I'd seek out their books but I'm a floating voter when it comes to weekend reads.

2040

MissRibena wrote: »

Sometimes the reviews are better than the book. I read a review in one of the weekend supplements last year for 'Don't Sleep There are Snakes' (non-fiction book about an Amazonian tribe with unusual speech/communication methods). I was fascinated by the topic and really excited about the implications of the author's findings on received opinion. I got the book and it somehow managed to make an original great idea dull as dishwater.

I really wish I could remember who the reviewer was because I'd seek out their books but I'm a floating voter when it comes to weekend reads.

That review was in the Sunday Times culture. I remember because i pretended i read it and made a reference to it in an essay for college. :P

MissRibena

Thanks 2040, I'll have another look for it.