Boylesports this is just wrong!!!!

bingobars

So anyway good to see a mix bag of feelings here. Looks to me about 80% in favour of Boyles.

Yes I am kind of questioning why I started this thread myself.

My original argument started because of my feelings about poker tournaments and how they are setup and run.

Just why mess with all the T&Cs??

And for those that bring up the 'Generosity of BoyleSport' ITT.

LOL.

STOP!!!!


Seriously. STOP!!!

Ste05

OK folks let's just take a breath here and not take this to a personal level. People can have views about whatever they like, if you don't agree with those views, say so, but don't attack someone personally for having those views.

Personally this whole thread is crazy to me, why on earth would Boyle's give a flying monkey's about what some old codger who can't turn on a PC thinks, or what people who have no intention of ever playing on their site want. Those people can still play the damn tournament, and people who play on their site rightly get rewarded by the extra 2k chips. It might be a little different, but IMO we'll see this happening all the time in the future, it's all above board, everyone knows what's happening and what's involved, so people can then decide based on that information whether they play or not.

NickyOD

bingobars wrote: »

And for those that bring up the 'Generosity of BoyleSport' ITT.

LOL.

STOP!!!!

Seriously. STOP!!!

Can you show where in this thread someone actually said that because I think you just made it up. No one is saying Boyle's are sponsoring the event out of the goodness of their hearts. People are saying they're being bloody smart about it.

If you would be happier with NO added prize money (100 hundred buy-ins on top of the prizepool) with no sponsor and no online satelites and much less marketing therefor fewer players turn up and it won't be anywhere near the largest field in europe, then go play another tournament. There are plenty of them to chose from.

If you feel it's absurd to have to generate $14 of rake on the sponsor's site, then that's okay but there's no need to act like Boyle's are putting a gun to your head to force you to play on their site, because they're not.

bantee

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I would recommend a rethink of strategy before next October.

Lol I forgot. It was this strategy that cost me some chips at last years IPO.
Ok so a big value bet to some Frenchie-station is a better idea:D

ianmc38

why did you change your name from lenny_leonard?

bingobars

NickyOD wrote: »

Can you show where in this thread someone actually said that because I think you just made it up. No one is saying Boyle's are sponsoring the event out of the goodness of their hearts. People are saying they're being bloody smart about it.

If you would be happier with NO added prize money (100 hundred buy-ins on top of the prizepool) with no sponsor and no online satelites and much less marketing therefor fewer players turn up and it won't be anywhere near the largest field in europe, then go play another tournament. There are plenty of them to chose from.

If you feel it's absurd to have to generate $14 of rake on the sponsor's site, then that's okay but there's no need to act like Boyle's are putting a gun to your head to force you to play on their site, because they're not.

Apologies if it was never said like I suggested but I did get an Inkling of of Boyle 'Horn blowing' as if they are feeding the street children of calcutta.

ditpoker

cooker3 wrote: »

To translate. "Jeff normally you talk ****e but this time you are actually making a bit of sense. Something is fishy here"

+1

5starpool

If I could drop a tenner into a Boylesports shop to give them the same as the amount of rake needed as an alternative, that would be great

I wish someone would think of the section of society no one has mentioned yet - the lazy. Never mind the fact that someone could lose a couple of hundred trying to chase 2000 extra chips in a donkament. I have no objection to what Boyles are doing as long as it is clear up front, as it is in this case. It may mean that I don't register to play the tournament, but that is my own choice and not anything I am going to get too upset about.

bingobars

bingobars wrote: »

So anyway good to see a mix bag of feelings here. Looks to me about 80% in favour of Boyles.

Yes I am kind of questioning why I started this thread myself.

My original argument started because of my feelings about poker tournaments and how they are setup and run.

Just why mess with all the T&Cs??

And for those that bring up the 'Generosity of BoyleSport' ITT.

LOL.

STOP!!!!


Seriously. STOP!!!

bingobars wrote: »

Apologies if it was never said like I suggested but I did get an Inkling of of Boyle 'Horn blowing' as if they are feeding the street children of calcutta.

OK, I call BS on Bingobars. Nobody is this stupid.

Slash/ED

I agree with what's being said that this is the least Boyles can expect in return for what they've put in but LLoyd or anyone else, why would you not play and get the extra 2k chips? It's the bare minimum amount of playing required

The Snapper

There are lots of skins share the ipoker network with Boylepoker, most of these have very basic marketing strategies. They offer 30% rakeback some as much as 60% .

The average 6 max grinder loves this, myself included, but this method targets those already playing the game and does little to introduce "the lifeblood" of new players to the game.

I applaud Boylepoker ( similarly Paddypowerpoker ) for their bigger picture approach to marketing the game.

Hypocritical as it is, given that I personally choose to play where I get the best rakeback deal. I do believe that pandering to the multitabling grinders is detrimental to the game and industry in the long term.

Regarding the IPO, this is as good a tourney as the average Joe could ever hope to experience, a one time shot at a massive payday for some. It comes with Terms and conditions as does everything. the T&C's are very much in large print and fairplay to Boyles and Poker Ireland for that. But be honest, could you have one without the other?

TripleAce

In terms of $ buy ins on Boyle, how much is required in order to get the extra 2k?

tipp86

TripleAce wrote: »

In terms of $ buy ins on Boyle, how much is required in order to get the extra 2k?

If its a new customer they will come in on bronze entry level. This means they need to rake $14 dollars. This would i guess equate to $140 in tournament entrys.

I really dont know how eagle eye has the time/energy to be arguing this point when he says he has no problem in doing it.

I think its great that boyles are trying to attract a new customer base and its a terrific strategy to get the players to join up. Shock/horror some my even enjoy it. It will attract casual players to the network which im sure i poker will love.

If the tournament does not sell out then this strategy can be seen as a mistake. I very much doubt that we will see this scenario.

gman127

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't know why I'm even bothering, but lets say the guy can swing a weekend of poker at the IPO, but now its not good enough that he wants to play the tournament and sign up to Boyles but he has to actually spend 140 dollars in tourneys/sngs(based on what Tipp86 says) or play enough cash to cover 14 bucks rake online each month. As I said its no bother to all of us here but for the average Joe on the street who plays occasionally and only plays live its very unfair. Not to mention the old guys that don't have a clue or any computer illiterate person.

I'm not even going to get into how aggressive this approach is, I don't like it personally and its because of the forceful nature of it.

It is very unfair that every poker player in Ireland; and a lot of europe; are being forced to play this tournament!!

Boyle's must of bribed someone in the Dail to swing that one!!


Seriously though, get a grip man... pretty sure you'll find its an optional tournament!
Dont like the t's & c's, dont play!

Hitman Actual

ianmc38 wrote: »

why did you change your name from lenny_leonard?

Not sure how that popped up in this thread, but anyway. A while after I joined Boards I found another guy using the same name and avatar before me (well, he was Lenny instead of lenny_leonard), so I always felt a bit guilty at using the name. "Hitman Actual" comes from Nathaniel Fick's book "One Bullet Away", and he was also one of the marines in the TV series Generation Kill. Being the kid that I am I found the name quite cool- "Hitman" is just the radio sign of the platoon that Fick was the lieutenant of, and "Actual" is a general US military term for the most senior officer in a particular group (or something like that).
[/completely useless off-topic trivia]

tylerdurden94

Hitman Actual wrote: »

Not sure how that popped up in this thread, but anyway. A while after I joined Boards I found another guy using the same name and avatar before me (well, he was Lenny instead of lenny_leonard), so I always felt a bit guilty at using the name. "Hitman Actual" comes from Nathaniel Fick's book "One Bullet Away", and he was also one of the marines in the TV series Generation Kill. Being the kid that I am I found the name quite cool- "Hitman" is just the radio sign of the platoon that Fick was the lieutenant of, and "Actual" is a general US military term for the most senior officer in a particular group (or something like that).
[/completely useless off-topic trivia]

I was wondering what ian was talking about, Hitman Actual = lenny leonard, now it all makes sense.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

Super Idea Boyles

Boyles Count me in 8k starting stack is fine and if i want a bonus ill play online its simple . I think as a company it was a superb marketing idea . I would have left the 10k there for all and given a 2k bonus to others this maybe would have stopped all the bitching .

Really is a smart move on Boyles part as they need some Roi on this event . This in really about rewarding players at there own event who play with them online . The people who dont play online im sorry but the option is there play or dont play your seat will be used regardless

Neill K

Goodluck2me

eagle eye wrote: »

Don't be such a tosser, I'm just giving a point of view. If you don't like it tough, same as boylepoker and their tournament.

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not even going to get into how aggressive this approach is, I don't like it personally and its because of the forceful nature of it.

When I am not sure about something, I just check your approach, and do the opposite.
Hasn't failed once.

eagle eye

Goodluck2me wrote: »

When I am not sure about something, I just check your approach, and do the opposite.
Hasn't failed once.

Don't jump in front of a truck doing 60mph.;)

mully_85

aw FFS, come on guys, open ur eyes, this is not good for players, and it could set a dangerous precedent for future events where sponsors place pre-conditions on events in order for them to "get a little back" as numerous posters have said in defence of this scheme.

the reason i think this is unfair is as follows:

player a: IPO player who cant/doesnt want to play the boylesport skin - cost of entry to LIVE tourney - $250 - starting stack in said LIVE tourney - 8K

player b : IPO player who clears the bonus - cost of entry to LIVE tourney - $250 - starting stack in said LIVE tourney - 10K


player a pays $250 for 8K starting stack
player b pays $250 for 10k starting stack

now, this is a very very clear abuse of fairness in terms of equal money paid for equal equity in terms of starting stack - this much cannot be argued aganist!!!!!

MTTs are supposed to guarentee equal starting oppurtunity for every single player (regardless of external factors) and the key assurance in this is equal amount of chips for every same entry fee paid!!!

this is the big issue i have in this, and i am really suprised that players are happy to let sponsers espouse to them external preconditions on actual playing factors that apply in tournaments that they are paying to take part in!!!

ffs just give equal chips for equal buyin - no sponsor imposed preconditions.

this could lead to a dangerous road of ever increasing power of sponsors to influence the intergity of tournaments in order to maximise the marketing return on their investment.

i mean where does this end. last year it was necessary to have a boyle account in order to enter the event, this year the amount of play on their site decides starting stacks, well, what is it gonna be next year???


and a side note, do people think that say the likes of Pokerstars would start introducing such preconditions on their EPT events??? i think not there would be uproar among the MTT community!!!

EDIT: oh lol btw there isnt a chance in hell that il miss this one!! just a little peeved at this scheme but il still be there and more likely than not il start with 10k!

CHD

Any chance of this thread being closed.

big_iain

mully_85 wrote: »

player a pays $250 for 8K starting stack
player b pays $250 for 10k starting stack

now, this is a very very clear abuse of fairness in terms of equal money paid for equal equity in terms of starting stack - this much cannot be argued aganist!!!!!

player b actually pays in rake for their extra chips. so you have to to compare apples with apples not apples with oranges.

mully_85

big_iain wrote: »

player b actually pays in rake for their extra chips. so you have to to compare apples with apples not apples with oranges.

lool so there is in fact 2 different de facto buyins for the same tournament? WTF?

big_iain

mully_85 wrote: »

lool so there is in fact 2 different de facto buyins for the same tournament? WTF?

No, Come on,

There is one buyin. $250 for 8K


If you want to get a 1000 bonus then play on Bolyes in August and earn one also 1000 for September.

There is not two buyins. Just one.

Think of it as an earlybird. Same concept. Instead of turning up early for a bonus you play on the site for a bonus.

mully_85

big_iain wrote: »

No, Come on,

There is one buyin. $250 for 8K


If you want to get a 1000 bonus then play on Bolyes in August and earn one also 1000 for September.

There is not two buyins. Just one.

Think of it as an earlybird. Same concept. Instead of turning up early for a bonus you play on the site for a bonus.

guess that aint a terrible way of looking at it at all, just i suppose 20% of the original starting stack is quite a bit!

mdwexford

mully_85 wrote: »

blah blah blah, load of rubbish

They are adding $25,000 to the prizepool.
That is 100 buyins.
They should get some benefit out of this gesture.
If stars added 5k x 100 = 500k to an EPT but you had to play some hands on their site id say people would happily play them.

Would you rather they dropped the $25k added and everyone just start with 10k?

If you answer yes to above question you are stupid btw.

mully_85

mdwexford wrote: »

They are adding $25,000 to the prizepool.
That is 100 buyins.
They should get some benefit out of this gesture.
If stars added 5k x 100 = 500k to an EPT but you had to play some hands on their site id say people would happily play them.

Would you rather they dropped the $25k added and everyone just start with 10k?

If you answer yes to above question you are stupid btw.

"blah blah blah load of rubbish", nice way to debate a post. well done.

robinblinds

eagle eye wrote: »

You usually come in opposing the popular side but this time you are on the side of the majority. Makes me think you have some ulterior motive or affiliation to this.

Unbelievable.

Hitman Actual

mully_85 wrote: »

MTTs are supposed to guarentee equal starting oppurtunity for every single player (regardless of external factors) and the key assurance in this is equal amount of chips for every same entry fee paid!!!

But it is an equal starting opportunity- No one is being excluded in the bonus chips offer.

mully_85 wrote: »

this is the big issue i have in this, and i am really suprised that players are happy to let sponsers espouse to them external preconditions on actual playing factors that apply in tournaments that they are paying to take part in!!!

The biggest weapon that players have is to vote with their feet, and apart from a few disconcerted cries (mostly from people complaining that it's unfair on others), there doesn't seem to be a lot of people who won't play because of the online requirement for the extra chips.

mully_85 wrote: »

this could lead to a dangerous road of ever increasing power of sponsors to influence the intergity of tournaments in order to maximise the marketing return on their investment.

This is very sensationalist, and doesn't really deserve a serious reply, but again, if players feel that the "integrity" of tournaments is being compromised, they'll vote with their feet.

mully_85 wrote: »

and a side note, do people think that say the likes of Pokerstars would start introducing such preconditions on their EPT events??? i think not there would be uproar among the MTT community!!!

I think it's unfair to compare a large operation like Pokerstars and their European-wide tournament (the EPT), with a smaller operation like Boyles and a one-off annual domestic tournament. The respective situations are not the same. Pokerstars don't need the marketing push that smaller operations do, for one thing.

mully_85

Hitman Actual wrote: »

But it is an equal starting opportunity- No one is being excluded in the bonus chips offer.


The biggest weapon that players have is to vote with their feet, and apart from a few disconcerted cries (mostly from people complaining that it's unfair on others), there doesn't seem to be a lot of people who won't play because of the online requirement for the extra chips.


This is very sensationalist, and doesn't really deserve a serious reply, but again, if players feel that the "integrity" of tournaments is being compromised, they'll vote with their feet.


I think it's unfair to compare a large operation like Pokerstars and their European-wide tournament (the EPT), with a smaller operation like Boyles and a one-off annual domestic tournament. The respective situations are not the same. Pokerstars don't need the marketing push that smaller operations do, for one thing.

yea fair enuff thanks for ur opinions! dont get me wrong il not be doin any "talking with my feet" or whatever, i just dont like the idea, prehaps maybe because the inital ss of 8k is a little shallow. but hey, this is a great tourney dont get me wrong, this is the only aspect i find a bit hard to get my head around, but no way will it prevent me from taking part!