Illegal File Sharing sites go Legal Subscription Service

Zascar

Interesting to see that Kazaa, the once totally illegal peer to peer file sharing service has gone totally legit as a subscription based service. For $20a month you can get an all you can eat buffet of music. The Pirate Bay's new owners are planning something similar bringing two of the biggest illegal file sharing sites on the web, fully legit.

I like the idea of a set fee and then you can have anything you want. I'm wondering would this every happen for the electronic music websites like beatport etc? Do you think the dance music industry will ever change so that a service will be on offer for DJ's?

jtsuited

hopefully not. subscription based services like IMRO just end up with the big people being paid more and the smaller people being paid less.

haven't there been subscription sites around before and have folded?

speaking of torrents i noticed a torrent site yesterday which has most of my releases on it has a 'donate via paypal' facility. Which is a friggin joke. Would you like to see people making money from your stolen work?

If people want to illegally share music, then fair enough but ffs profiting from it is such scumbaggery.

Zascar

I kinda thought it might be different as the way commercial music works is so different to the electronic music industry overall. I suppose something like this might just help get some people from pure illegal file sharing into paying for it - but yes I can see how the big boys would probably not distribute the funds fairly - which is cack.

That sucks about your stuff being put on torrents, but really no one can escape from it these days I suppose. I agree that profiting from filesharing is very bad form indeed.

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

That sucks about your stuff being put on torrents, but really no one can escape from it these days I suppose. I agree that profiting from filesharing is very bad form indeed.

Actually on that point, one of the guys from a VERY big label said to me the other day that filesharing is hurting their business so much right now that they don't know how long they can keep it up.

Which I think is very sad, because in Dance music many of the big, big labels still put music first and take risks signing unknown artists and genuinely having an artistic vision.

With all the joy the music brings to people (imagine your life without techno/house/hardcore breaks/whatever you are into/etc.) , it is depressing to think that people will hurt their favourite labels and artists by illegally sharing their music.

I mean you can go on to Beatport, flick through everything, spend €20 and have a load of music at the end. It's so cheap nowadays especially compared to vinyl and cd's.

The margins aren't huge in dance music. It's not like the mainstream music industry. Labels (even the biggest ones) do need your money to continue putting out music you'll like.

Zascar

Good point. I think most people don't really care about downloading a track and robbing the record companies behind Britney/U2 etc - cause they've been miling it for years, but when small labels really do need every penny its a different matter really.

If this is the way things are going, what do you think shoul/can be done about it?

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

If this is the way things are going, what do you think shoul/can be done about it?

Maybe i'm being a bit too naiive about this, but when the dance labels are more vocal about the problem, I think people will realise the damage they're doing by filesharing.

So far I've seen Radio Slave (Rekids) and Matthew Jonson (Wagon Repair) state publicly that they're really getting hit by filesharing and that they're not big record companies and that they struggle to break even.

I've heard in Italy they've got an insanely strict enforcement of checking dj's hard-drives for pirated material. It's only a matter of time before that starts happening in more places. (Acman knows more about this so if he wants to chime in).

Dj's using pirated material while playing out is an absolute disgrace (as they are profiting from the public performance of copyrighted material that is stolen).

What really gets my goat is when people say 'Music is a promotional tool for live performances etc., where artists will earn money' when talking about dance music.
That model might work for major labels trying to ram their new signings down people's throats (and in most cases their records ARE actually promotional tools for the band and nothing else), but to apply that logic to all areas of music is completely and utterly wrong.

Dance music has been defined by the labels and that is one of the things that has made it great and more easily navigable. Without strong labels you'd have to sift through so much sh1te your life would be hell.

As for what can be done about it? Not much apart from making people realise that they are hurting (and perhaps killing) something they love. Hopefully enough people care that labels can survive (I think that is a definite possibility if it's approached the right way from the industry side).

I expect some sort of 'support your favourite labels' campaign.

Unfortunately people think that the big dance labels (the likes of cocoon, m-nus, poker flat, etc.) are mega rich corporate conglomerates like the big major and indie labels. They're not. They are tiny tiny enterprises that tend to be done more out of the love of music than the love of profits.

There are a billion and one easier, quicker and better ways of making money than in selling dance records, so don't think that these are just 'businesses'. To a large extent the business is merely a necessary vehicle for the continuation of their artistic output and vision.

seannash

im not in any way trying to defend stealing music but i always wonder how labels who only release digitally have so many overheads.

now i know some of them advertise new releases in mags,online,and on the download sites etc.all this does cost money but is it really necessary for them to have a big marketing campaign if they are already established?

i very rarely see a smaller label do a marketing blitz.they tend to rely on releasing good music and slowly build up a brand for themselves.

i know its hard work to make a label work but im always miffed at how they say there struggling when i cant really see what overheads they have.
maybe its just time to cut out all marketing tactics and just go back to relying on selling good music(idealistic i know,but you see my point)

unfortunately my only frame of reference is from my own personal experience with record labels who dont do any marketing and from a friend of mine who is unemployed,has zero cash but has a label.

of course some labels pay for remixes and almost all pay for mastering.mastering is unavoidable but its not exactly mega expensive.

i can understand the bigger labels have staff who have to be paid but id imagine alot of the staff are for marketing purposes.

anyway like i said not condoning it just curious as to how there being effected so badly

FLYNN-DOG

In fairness jt, i usually accept your POV, but to say the majority of the big heads at cocoon aren't millionaires is bollox mate...and i know that for a fact. Luciano at Cadenze earns between 10-15 g's per gig - not to factor in record sales (he bought La Mezkla for 5 grand!) plus his own fabric album....these guys are rolling n it!

acman

jtsuited wrote: »

I've heard in Italy they've got an insanely strict enforcement of checking dj's hard-drives for pirated material. It's only a matter of time before that starts happening in more places. (Acman knows more about this so if he wants to chime in).

Yeah, Italy are waaaaay ahead of the rest of europe as far as controlling music piracy is concerned (which is strange, cos Italy is behind on everything else LOL).

As a DJ in Italy, you are often exposed to random inspections carried out by the "Guardia di Finanza" - literally translated to "Finance Police". These badasses frequently raid clubs and amongst other things, require the DJ to provide proof of authenticity....bottom line, DJ's dont burn cd's without that beatport receipt handy!

The GDF also crack down on anything else that is illegal in the digital world (films, music, porno, e-books etc.). The are even taking out a case on the pirate bay, check it:
italian-pirate-bay-trial-in-the-making

On another note, this poor bastard DJ got fined 24 thousand euro for using illegal CD's LOL:
Fined 24 Grand

Bottom line, if you are gigging in Italy, BE CAREFUL and make sure everything you have with you in that DJ box is 100% legal! But isn't that the way it should be anyway...? Hell, the DJ is getting paid to play, so the artist should definitely get his cut too!

insert-gear

Personally if it wasn't free I wouldn't buy most of it at all. Would just listen to it on youtube or something to that effect. It being free also means that I'd download a whole album instead of a song or two. Means I'm more likely to get into the artist, and go to one of their gigs.I like the idea of a subscription service though. Paying a certain amount (maybe to the record companies directly) and then downloading as much or as little of it as I want.

VinylJunkie

How does the like of LegalSounds operate then?

Is there a loophole?, Is it really legal? How come its much cheaper than beatport?

All the materials in the LegalSounds.com music service are available for distribution via Internet according to license ЛС-3М-05-09 of the Russian Multimedia and Internet Society. Under the license agreement, Legalsounds.com pays license fees for all the materials subject to the Law of the Russian Federation "On Copyright and Related Rights". All the materials are available solely for personal use.

Must be something to do with the russian system!