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Possible reduction in the minimum wage

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    irish_bob wrote: »
    ive went into the dept of agri many times as my bro is a farmer , i never got the impression that the staff there were ran of thier feet , same with county council offices , besides thier working hours( dept of agri ) are 9.30 am to 4.30 pm with 90 minutes for lunch , add to that the fact that thier are 6000 civil servants in the dept of agri , one for every 16 full time farmers , under staffing is hardly a problem

    ps , how do you know civil servants work hard , your a student

    Civil servant do not work a 9:30 to 4:30 hours. The civil service has flexi-time.

    You may arrive into work from 8am to 10am, you must be at your desk at 10am to 12:30, you may take your lunch between 12:30 and 2:30 and you must be back at your desk at 2:30 and there until 4:00, you may stay until 7pm. However you must work your hours as per your contract, no Civil Servant could do a shift as follows 10:00 to 12:30 and 2:30 to 4:00 as that would be a very short day and you would have to ask your supervisor if you could do it since offices need to be manned between 9 and 5. And you would never work your full week of hours. You may work up a day and a half and take it as holidays during the next month but you cannot build up a day and a half each month and go on a months leave at the end of the year.

    IMO from working in the CS there are people who shouldn't still be working in many areas often this are the people who get promotions but then I think this is the case in most places I have worked. For me it now is a case of realizing that there is no chance of promotion and it is time to move on.

    The civil service has huge issues that pertain to the job: -

    1. How people are selected (often individual HRs don't even have CVs for their staff, how do you promote people? where to do you put people if you don't know what they can do?)
    2. Promotions while it has changed to 1 year it used to be 2 years probationary periods. At which point you must do an exam and if you get the exam you then go on to an interview stage and if you get the interview you are then promoted, to me it seems if you can do the exam and do a good interview you get the promotion. I have seen several people promoted who should not even be working IMO.
    3. There is an episode of Yes Minister where a woman leaves the CS because of how they treat people while she is talking in the 1970s and about women's rights it is actually a very true reflexion of the CS.



    Totally of the subject. Can't find her full speech on the web, put when they give her the promotion she leaves. But for me she defines the civil service.

    Come in when your 18, do a few years as a CO, if you can get the exam become an EO stay a few years, do an exam become a HEO etc etc finally you are PO with no real world experience, no qualifications and earning plenty of money. :mad:

    COs work the most in the civil service, they know the most about the polices in their sections and how policy effect their sections, they work the most and get very little for it, the rest of the civil servants either supervise their work or go to meetings and discuss policy. Then their are the professionals in the civil service such as Accountants who also seem to work. EOs also do a good bit with policy working as partial COs and partial HEOs at times.

    This is purely my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Ashlinggnilsia


    irish_bob wrote: »
    i checked it out , its full of untruths and myths about everyone in the private sector having a company car and thier wages having been higher than those working in the public sector

    ok again check out MY COMMENT i didnt say that i was quoting someone else there my comment is below that in the white the grey is what someone else said and in the white is my response to that comment. And where he said about people in the public sector having less paid jobs than those in the private sector he was referring to the last recession where some people who worked for the pubic sector had taken pay cuts up to 60% . one sec.

    This is what i wanted you to look at:

    Ya i pay freeze would be grand it just pisses me off when i hear ppl sayin public sector do sweet **** all and dont deserve the money i get, i worked in the public sector in a council for 11 months i was a clerical officer, guess what happened ... they were told they had to make cut backs all temporary staff are gone. That meaning anybody not permenant had to go i was one of them so they did make cuts, because i was one of them.

    My father also works for them no clerical work engineering, hes down in his wages, my mother is a teacher she has no pension set up for herself and there is no point in it now!! Last june 5 teachers left took early retirement because of with this pension levy thing they brought in they would be better off leavin because they would be gettin nothing from it!!

    Teachers are spending the extra time doing work they would have been paid to do before but nobody is doing now because they were told they dont have the funds! If your boss said to you hey i need you to do an extra hours work everyday but im not payin you for it? dont think any1 would be too impressed with that!!

    Plus out of curiosity one day i remember when i was in work i went lookin through a phone book thing we had and it gave everyone in my buidings title and to be fair in my building anyway not talkin about any other offices but in mine they were mostly clerical officers the smallest bracket! Thought that was just my building!!

    The only reason im annoyed about this public sector slaggin match is basically because i was there
    i was one of them not anymore but i ws and they have to put up with some load of abuse ... I think people forget they are people do they are just doing their jobs yano! Pay freeze thats fair enough!

    Alot of offices are severly understaffed aswel which is a joke like the building i was in there is nobody to cover maternity leave or sickness or anything like that!! So everyone else is fairly ****ed over with the amount of work they have to do...again thats just the building i was in!!
    Cant speak for everyone but thats just my opinion anyway!!

    That is what i posted in response to the comment you read!! I did not say those things you wrote about that is what somebody else said..


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    irish_bob wrote: »
    i checked it out , its full of untruths and myths about everyone in the private sector having a company car and thier wages having been higher than those working in the public sector

    We know that everyone doesn't get a company car, but very few in the civil service get any benefits-in-kind. We don't get bonuses, we pay for our own Christmas parties and other outings.

    However we know the cost of these benefits are the other benefits of flexi-time (which a few in the private sector have), pensions, a job for life (however that should be changed). However our wages are open to public scrutiny, I have worked with contractors in the CS, doing the same job knowing that they are getting paid far more than what I get paid. Which is very annoying.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Ashlinggnilsia


    Elmo wrote: »
    We know that everyone doesn't get a company car, but very few in the civil service get any benefits-in-kind. We don't get bonuses, we pay for our own Christmas parties and other outings.

    However we know the cost of these benefits are the other benefits of flexi-time (which a few in the private sector have), pensions, a job for life (however that should be changed). However our wages are open to public scrutiny, I have worked with contractors in the CS, doing the same job knowing that they are getting paid far more than what I get paid. Which is very annoying.

    Not a job for life i and up to 20 more were let go the office i worked!!! Not a job for life!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Not a job for life i and up to 20 more were let go the office i worked!!! Not a job for life!!!

    But as you pointed out you where temporary in the Council, I don't think that Council workers do a Civil Service exam. I am talking about those in the CS who have completed 2 years of probation (now 1).

    The new CS from July 2006 where lucky since some would still be on probation and could have got their P45. (Very few).

    How long where you there?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Ashlinggnilsia


    Elmo wrote: »
    But as you pointed out you where temporary in the Council, I don't think that Council workers do a Civil Service exam. I am talking about those in the CS who have completed 2 years of probation (now 1).

    The new CS from July 2006 where lucky since some would still be on probation and could have got their P45. (Very few).

    How long where you there?

    11 Months!! Not the worst and it didnt effect me too much because i was going to leave anyway!! But they didnt know that!! Well thats grand if you understand, but its still a fact that so many people lost their jobs...as they assumed like others (it was a job for life) some had just got married and other just got a mortgage!! Its very unfair!! I was merely pointing out that not everyone stayed and there is no longer any temporary staff anywhere if your in the office work type route! Not sure about labourers that work for the council dont know if they were cut!! For CO's we had to do a exam, interview and an optional irish interview for a few extra points!! 180 people applied for that job alone and there wasnt even a recession on then then a pannel was created of about 50...gradually they went through the temporary staff offering contracts i bet all those who didnt leave there jobs before are glad now because they would have nothing!!! And i feel for all those who did!! Im glad i did it because I went back to college straight away to finish my course and now i have 1 yrs experience more than all those i will be graduating with but of course it could have gone very very wrong which is thick seeing as you would have imagined that the gov should have told the manager of that council to cut down the pannel and what not because they of all people should have seen this coming!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭loctite


    What has any of this got to do with the minimum wage???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Ashlinggnilsia


    loctite wrote: »
    What has any of this got to do with the minimum wage???

    main post the person said i dont think the minimum wage is the reason for uncompetitiveness in ireland and somewhere along the way this happend!! Probly someone said ahh its all the public sectors fault!! I forget now at this stage to be honest!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    I am totally opposed to a decrease in social welfare payments. However the ONLY reason they should be slashed is that should there be a decrease in the minimum wage, workers will find themselves better off on the dole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Ashlinggnilsia


    ryanf1 wrote: »
    I am totally opposed to a decrease in social welfare payments. However the ONLY reason they should be slashed is that should there be a decrease in the minimum wage, workers will find themselves better off on the dole.

    I get your point but at the same time what about those people who arnt being given the choice yano..its a hard one to call.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    I get your point but at the same time what about those people who arnt being given the choice yano..its a hard one to call.

    There is no choice in cutting the dole. It has to be done, there is no way around it without not cutting it. Except for maybe abolishing it completely for the long term un-employed... Thats one way of reducing it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Why do all of these discussions descend into a public sector versus private sector row. There are problems in both sectors and changes in both are needed. Probably in the following order:

    (1) Large cut in politicians pay
    (2) Large cut in the pay of judges, hospital consultants, university professors and senior civil servants
    (3) Huge cut in State fees paid to pharmacists, GPs, dentists, lawyers, architects, construction contractors and other pretend private sector groups (I call them pretend private sector as they claim to be private sector but rely on the state for most of their income and should be paid like public servants) The pharmacist protest is ridiculous.
    (4) Reduce State support for farmers (again, are they a business or just higher social welfare??)
    (5) Re-tender for all State building projects and other tendered services. There are others out there ready to bid at a lower price if the existing so-called private sector tenders don't want to reduce their prices
    (6) Significant cut in the pay and numbers of public servants. Gardai, teachers, civil sevants and nurses are paid significantly more than their European counterparts which is why they are not out on the streets like the French
    (7) Cut social welfare rates to encourage people to work. We are way out of line with Europe and in serious danger of social welfare tourism
    (8) Lastly, cut the minimum wage if we are still uncompetitive.


    Have I left anyone out - just the banks - but isn't it a laugh that the unions are looking for pay increases for workers in the banks when the rest of us, both public and private sector are paying extra taxes to bail out their jobs, not to mention the pay cuts, freezes and pension levies!!!

    The only ones I have left out are those exporting goods and services, they just need to stay competitive and keep selling.


    P.S. Probably between three and four I should have inserted: Find a way to reduce gas, electricity and communication prices and problems for exporters.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Ashlinggnilsia


    Godge- At least you have ideas how to try and sort the problem, all this is easier said then done though.
    ____________________________


    Im not sure what happened yesterday with the banks i only caught the arse end of a discussion on the radio as far as i could gather something was decided in relation to the banks that the public were not impressed with and those workers at the cashier desks where getting abuse all morning for something they werent even aware was going to be announced yesterday and they had not been told how to deal with it, apparently they were told about it at half 12 that day and they had a guy from a union on the radio saying how some bank employees had been spat at which im sorry but that is absolutly discusting those people at the front desks arent the ones that made the decisions not saying they should go and spit in the faces of those that did but that is a discusting thing for someone to do. How can that be justified!

    My opinion on the whole thing is simple cuts are going to have to be made somewhere and at the end of the day your not going to have everyone happy with the decisions, at the same time i think those who can afford it should be the ones, as in people who are left with a disposable income after. if it was possible for cuts to be made but people could still afford to pay their bills etc then i think that is the best way to go about it! Taking away the dole all together is ridiculous. If a person is on the dole and then they have nothing they will starve, be grossly in debt and thats the end of their life.

    I also resent the fact that some people think that everyone on the dole decides to be on it, if i could be on the dole i would but i cant because im a student however, i have been looking for work since january, from june alone i would say i have applied for at least 60 jobs and im not exaggerating, im trying to find a job i need a job and i dont doubt that alot of people on the dole are looking too!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Godge wrote: »
    (1) Large cut in politicians pay
    (2) Large cut in the pay of judges, hospital consultants, university professors and senior civil servants
    (3) Huge cut in State fees paid to pharmacists, GPs, dentists, lawyers, architects, construction contractors and other pretend private sector groups (I call them pretend private sector as they claim to be private sector but rely on the state for most of their income and should be paid like public servants) The pharmacist protest is ridiculous.
    (4) Reduce State support for farmers (again, are they a business or just higher social welfare??)
    (5) Re-tender for all State building projects and other tendered services. There are others out there ready to bid at a lower price if the existing so-called private sector tenders don't want to reduce their prices
    (6) Significant cut in the pay and numbers of public servants. Gardai, teachers, civil sevants and nurses are paid significantly more than their European counterparts which is why they are not out on the streets like the French
    (7) Cut social welfare rates to encourage people to work. We are way out of line with Europe and in serious danger of social welfare tourism
    (8) Lastly, cut the minimum wage if we are still uncompetitive.


    Have I left anyone out - just the banks - but isn't it a laugh that the unions are looking for pay increases for workers in the banks when the rest of us, both public and private sector are paying extra taxes to bail out their jobs, not to mention the pay cuts, freezes and pension levies!!!

    The only ones I have left out are those exporting goods and services, they just need to stay competitive and keep selling.


    P.S. Probably between three and four I should have inserted: Find a way to reduce gas, electricity and communication prices and problems for exporters.

    You effect everything with your cuts in actuality. Farmer, Social Welfare recipients and indeed the politicians use banks :)

    Farmers are under pressure to reduce their costs by the Supermarkets who demand lower prices, farmers get support for the supermarkets are the supermarkets not a business, the farmers should demand more money from them.

    Social Welfare Tourism could be stopped by stating that non-Irish citizens should be more carefully looked at, but that doesn't stop the percentage of Irish Citizen (both naturalized and native) that have head of around the world.

    Again reduce social welfare on those you believe are scamming the system until such time as a full investigation can be carried out. Reduce social welfare on the long term unemployed that you believe to be wasters rather than unemployable. And insure that those who have just lost their jobs are getting their 240 per week they are entitled to until such time as they are able to get a new job.


    I agree with Ashlinggnilsia
    I also resent the fact that some people think that everyone on the dole decides to be on it, if i could be on the dole i would but i cant because im a student however, i have been looking for work since january, from june alone i would say i have applied for at least 60 jobs and im not exaggerating, im trying to find a job i need a job and i dont doubt that alot of people on the dole are looking to

    Lets realize now that most of the people on the dole at the moment aren't there by choice we have just see 400,000 people being made redundant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    Look its quite simple, reductions in the minimum wage are essential to ensure that we attract and develop sufficient companies to boost our exports market which is key to our economic stability.
    However at the same time it will be necessary to adjust social welfare so as not to give incentive for people to remain unemployed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Look its quite simple, reductions in the minimum wage are essential to ensure that we attract and develop sufficient companies to boost our exports market which is key to our economic stability.
    However at the same time it will be necessary to adjust social welfare so as not to give incentive for people to remain unemployed.

    I don't really understand why a person who had a 40,000 PA job who has just recently become unemployed would want to work for the Minimum wage. They will want a job that suit their experience and talent. It is unlikely that that person would consider their talents to amount to less than 18,000 a year. It isn't a case of them wanting to be on the dole it is a case of them being pushed into it, and it has relatively nothing to do with the minimum wage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭RealityCheck


    Elmo wrote: »
    I don't really understand why a person who had a 40,000 PA job who has just recently become unemployed would want to work for the Minimum wage. They will want a job that suit their experience and talent. It is unlikely that that person would consider their talents to amount to less than 18,000 a year. It isn't a case of them wanting to be on the dole it is a case of them being pushed into it, and it has relatively nothing to do with the minimum wage.

    Yes but if you lower the minimum wage it allows companies to adjust other pay tiers accordingly. Anyway why should someone stay on the dole rather that getting meaningful paid experience. Attitude adjustment required. Look if people put the effort in and upskill wont they get paid relatively more than those on the minimum wage. The minimum wage should act as a benchmark somewhat. Reducing it reduces the cost base.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Yes but if you lower the minimum wage it allows companies to adjust other pay tiers accordingly. Anyway why should someone stay on the dole rather that getting meaningful paid experience. Attitude adjustment required. Look if people put the effort in and upskill wont they get paid relatively more than those on the minimum wage. The minimum wage should act as a benchmark somewhat. Reducing it reduces the cost base.

    If it was meaningful but what meaningful jobs are there for the minimum wage?

    The people on the minimum wage are prob some of the only people holding on to their jobs.

    I am talking about people that are probably very experienced and have room to upskill in jobs that suit their abilities. Part of the attraction to Ireland is our Educated work force.

    Companies could adjust their pay teirs tomorrow if they wished, asking managers, than middle management and then low waged people to reduce their pay.

    I think we are scapegoating the minimum wage and the dole when all signs point to the fact that the majority on the dole are only on it recently and are actively looking to get back into the work force, and many will take huge pay cuts to get back to work, but many won't be going into jobs at the minimum wage or even at 9euro an hour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    But the very existance of the minimum wage pushes all wages up. Take those employed in Element6, some of which had been there since their leaving cert (which proves third level education was not required). They were being paid 12 euros more per hour than what it could be done for in another country (if the independant was to be believed). Anyone doing any sort of meaningful work expects to be paid more than the minimum wage. Reduce the minimum wage and other wages will reduce accordingly.

    If what the company put out was to be believed, it was the high cost of wages that is after forcing them out of the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    But the very existance of the minimum wage pushes all wages up. Take those employed in Element6, some of which had been there since their leaving cert (which proves third level education was not required). They were being paid 12 euros more per hour than what it could be done for in another country (if the independant was to be believed). Anyone doing any sort of meaningful work expects to be paid more than the minimum wage. Reduce the minimum wage and other wages will reduce accordingly.

    If what the company put out was to be believed, it was the high cost of wages that is after forcing them out of the country.

    Why didn't they just push the workers out when time went on. Most companies have high turnovers of staff, which helps keep wages down.

    Also if they where there since their leaving cert, the company could have increased their wages along the lines of Minimum wage there was never any suggestion that they had to give them twice the amount of money for an unskilled job. I don't know what they did, but it certainly proves that the Private sector where on far higher wages than unskilled workers in the public sector, and perhaps even skilled workers.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    But the very existance of the minimum wage pushes all wages up. Take those employed in Element6, some of which had been there since their leaving cert (which proves third level education was not required). They were being paid 12 euros more per hour than what it could be done for in another country (if the independant was to be believed). Anyone doing any sort of meaningful work expects to be paid more than the minimum wage. Reduce the minimum wage and other wages will reduce accordingly.

    If what the company put out was to be believed, it was the high cost of wages that is after forcing them out of the country.

    And the fact that it was 12 euro more than €3.60(price of workers in South Africa) is not relevent?
    The fact you and lots of other people didnt know this proves my point in another post that the headlines was a right wing opertunistic bloody disgrace.

    BTW America just raised its Minimum wage from $6.65 to $7.25 at a time when they are also in a finanacial crises. Why would they do this?

    It is now back in line (in real terms) with the min wage in 1968 in that country.
    Rising tides lift all boats? I think not


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    eamonnm79 wrote: »
    And the fact that it was 12 euro more than €3.60(price of workers in South Africa) is not relevent?
    The fact you and lots of other people didnt know this proves my point in another post that the headlines was a right wing opertunistic bloody disgrace.

    BTW America just raised its Minimum wage from $6.65 to $7.25 at a time when they are also in a finanacial crises. Why would they do this?

    It is now back in line (in real terms) with the min wage in 1968 in that country.
    Rising tides lift all boats? I think not


    your forgetting that the dollar has devalued a **** load in recent years


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    eamonnm79 wrote: »
    And the fact that it was 12 euro more than €3.60(price of workers in South Africa) is not relevent?
    The fact you and lots of other people didnt know this proves my point in another post that the headlines was a right wing opertunistic bloody disgrace.

    BTW America just raised its Minimum wage from $6.65 to $7.25 at a time when they are also in a finanacial crises. Why would they do this?

    It is now back in line (in real terms) with the min wage in 1968 in that country.
    Rising tides lift all boats? I think not

    I can't imagine why the states would increase the minimum wage? Surely that will increase pressure on employers and hence cause more un-employment? That just sounds puzzling to me.. To me increasing the minimum wage means increasing those above it in skilled jobs. Is this not counter intuitive to creating employment?

    Yeah I'm starting to wonder where can we get reliable information, all the newspapers seem to spout more and more propaganda these days as does the CSO (well maybe not inaccurate), but at the least the validity of some of their surveys... E.g the public workers being paid 48% more than those in the private sector.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    but at the least the validity of some of their surveys... E.g the public workers being paid 48% more than those in the private sector.

    lol.....:rolleyes::(

    the CSO says that the average wage in the public sector is 48% higher than the average wage in the private sector

    it does not say that public workers are paid 48% more than private sector workers


    and they are NOT the same thing


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    Riskymove wrote: »
    lol.....:rolleyes::(

    the CSO says that the average wage in the public sector is 48% higher than the average wage in the private sector

    it does not say that public workers are paid 48% more than private sector workers


    and they are NOT the same thing

    Apologies, what I mean't


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    your forgetting that the dollar has devalued a **** load in recent years

    In real terms!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    I can't imagine why the states would increase the minimum wage? Surely that will increase pressure on employers and hence cause more un-employment? That just sounds puzzling to me.. To me increasing the minimum wage means increasing those above it in skilled jobs. Is this not counter intuitive to creating employment?

    It is only counter intuitive if you believe that increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.
    If you believe that it is more likely that low paid workers will spend their money in the economy (than say putting that same amount of money into bailing out a bank and expecting it to put that money back in the economy) and thus boost demand and lead to the requirement for more labour then it makes sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Spudmonkey wrote: »
    Apologies, what I mean't

    fair enough, I am sensitive about that after 15 pages of argument


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    eamonnm79 wrote: »
    It is only counter intuitive if you believe that increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment.
    If you believe that it is more likely that low paid workers will spend their money in the economy (than say putting that same amount of money into bailing out a bank and expecting it to put that money back in the economy) and thus boost demand and lead to the requirement for more labour then it makes sense.

    Alternatively, with higher wages (which I think are governed by the minimum wage because it pushes other wages up) the costs of exported good goes up. This is not going to do anything for our competitivenes. Whats to stop people from choosing other similar, cheaper products from other countries? We should be doing anything in our power to increase our exports as this is whats bringing money into the country! In fact this is about the only money here that isn't borrowed! (Not entirely true I know)

    Besides whats from stopping people on the minimum wage from purchasing goods online? Just because they might not go on foreign holidays, does not mean they will spend their earnings here!
    Riskymove wrote: »
    fair enough, I am sensitive about that after 15 pages of argument

    :D.. It went on that long? My eyes glazed over after 12 pages of that thread!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    The money going through the economy is a fixed amount. If you want to bring in more money into this small island nation you have to attract private investment from outside or export more. To export more you must be competitive with your competition in EU/US/Asia etc.
    You can only generate your own money for so long by leveraging and creating a bubble....basic common sense.

    It's also not about what you think you are entitled to and your experience (there are many very experienced people who will not be able to get a job in Ireland in their industry again) but what contribution you can make to a business. What skillset can you bring and also what is the current state of the industry? Many unskilled and semi-skilled jobs have disappeared forever and admin type jobs will also have serious wage adjustment down as there are many candidates, especially women, looking for this type of position. The world is changing quicker and quicker these days due to globalisation and technology advancement (the internet has only been commercialised for a little over 10 years now), it's an unstoppable force and Ireland needs to get it's ship in order to ride the wave. Even many famous and powerful companies in the US have not been able to react and have crumbled to nothing...that is a warning to all.

    The minimum wage is just one cost factor of many which can be adjusted TOGETHER to create a better and more stable economic environment. Encouraging people to stay on the dole is a disaster from both a tax stand-point and personal skill development standpoint....the system should be setup to stop this.


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