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Possible reduction in the minimum wage

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    #62
    eamonnm79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    maninasia wrote: »
    The money going through the economy is a fixed amount.
    Completely incorrect. You can borrow off your rich German aging cousins at low interest rates like we in Ireland did and hopefully realise large multiplier efects.


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    #63
    eamonnm79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    maninasia wrote: »
    The world is changing quicker and quicker these days due to globalisation and technology advancement (the internet has only been commercialised for a little over 10 years now), it's an unstoppable force and Ireland needs to get it's ship in order to ride the wave. Even many famous and powerful companies in the US have not been able to react and have crumbled to nothing...that is a warning to all.

    The minimum wage is just one cost factor of many which can be adjusted TOGETHER to create a better and more stable economic environment. Encouraging people to stay on the dole is a disaster from both a tax stand-point and personal skill development standpoint....the system should be setup to stop this.

    "Its an unstoppable force"
    Yeah its like the darkside! :pac:

    "Ireland needs get its ship in order and ride the wave"

    I think you mean Irish citizens like all the rest in the industrialised world (outside corporate elites) need to get rode by the wave.

    Your assumption that gloabalised barbaric savigary is inevitable is unbelievably defeatest.

    I think people shuld have a bit more self worth.


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    #64
    Peanut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭Peanut


    eamonnm79 wrote: »
    ...
    Your assumption that gloabalised barbaric savigary is inevitable is unbelievably defeatest.

    Aren't we already way past the inevitable, don't you think?

    Taking measures to increase Ireland's global competitiveness is hardly defeatest IMO, in fact I would suggest quite the opposite. It doesn't have to be a race to the bottom to be effective either.


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    #65
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,301 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    loctite wrote: »
    Secondly you say that social welfare benefits are too high. I am and have for a long time worked in the private sector. So if I should loose my job in the short term, I should loose all my assets also? Someone may be out of work for 6 months which is ample time to fall behind in mortgage repayments and loose their home. Do you believe that to be fair or equitable??
    At the moment, people who have never worked will get the same benifits as you, if you get sacked. That's not fair.

    It's a sad fact that the long-term dole spongers would get exactly the same as me, if I were to lose my job.


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    #66
    eamonnm79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    the_syco wrote: »
    At the moment, people who have never worked will get the same benifits as you, if you get sacked. That's not fair.

    It's a sad fact that the long-term dole spongers would get exactly the same as me, if I were to lose my job.

    At the height of the Boom we had 4-5% unemplyment.
    That is what economists discribe as close to full employment. (That is because there are always a certain No. of people moving between jobs or just cant work for a short period of time for personal reasons.

    I remember Moore McDowell, a fairly right wing econmomist, say that the amount of long term Dole Spongers was less than 1% of the workforce.

    Therfore its a lot more likely you just have some class issues to deal with.
    Everyone likes to have someone to look down on I guess.


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    #67
    Spudmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    eamonnm79 wrote: »
    At the height of the Boom we had 4-5% unemplyment.
    That is what economists discribe as close to full employment. (That is because there are always a certain No. of people moving between jobs or just cant work for a short period of time for personal reasons.

    I remember Moore McDowell, a fairly right wing econmomist, say that the amount of long term Dole Spongers was less than 1% of the workforce.

    Therfore its a lot more likely you just have some class issues to deal with.
    Everyone likes to have someone to look down on I guess.

    Still a lot of people willing to defraud the system, though, regardless of what class they are from...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0725/1224251307561.html


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    #68
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭maninasia


    eamonnm79 wrote: »
    "Its an unstoppable force"
    Yeah its like the darkside! :pac:

    "Ireland needs get its ship in order and ride the wave"

    I think you mean Irish citizens like all the rest in the industrialised world (outside corporate elites) need to get rode by the wave.

    Your assumption that gloabalised barbaric savigary is inevitable is unbelievably defeatest.

    I think people shuld have a bit more self worth.

    Your assumption that
    i) Ireland can somehow remain aloof from globalisation when even ancient and powerful countries like China and Japan in the 18th and 19th centuries couldn't strikes me as completely bonkers. Now things are changing even faster, 1 million times faster perhaps, look at the example of climate change for example, it is still accelerating. In a few decades we will have artifical intelligence and so on. Ireland cannot direct global policy but it can nudge it and also benefit from it if it plays it's cards right. Who could imagine, even in the 80s, that countries like Poland and Czech republic would become integral partners in the EU or that China would suddenly exponentially grow in power after decades of absolute stagnation...things are changing whether we like them or not.
    It's up to Irish people to embrace it rather than hide from it. From a purely economic standpoint the improvement in living standards of other countries is creating huge markets of middle income consumers that would like to avail of Irish goods and services if we can provide them something unique or the best. This is real leverage for the long term, not the type of leverage you describe with cheap money.

    ii)
    Globalisation is a bad thing is also wrong. It is not 'a force of evil', it is just a fact. In fact globalisation has helped raise living standards across most of the world and allowed Ireland to become a relatively rich country. At the same time it has bad effects in certain areas just like any trend. Globalisation means the planet is getting smaller... it doesn't mean a 'race to the bottom', in fact it could be argued it is more a 'race to a global median' which is hardly a bad thing.

    iii)
    Leveraging cheap money from Germans or the US is still feasible is also wrong. Just like any bubble it popped. After the stark evidence in front of you living in Ireland in 2009 can you still claim that we can 'leverage' cheap money and magically improve our living standards in a stable way, that myth has been put to bed forever even though interest rates are still low. Watch what happens when mortgage rates start to go up....


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