Clamped for Parking in Parent & Infant Space or was he?

OldmanMondeo

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

So please unless you have a child in the car the needs to be in a child seat or booster seat, do not park in the P&C spaces.

I have no issue whatsoever using these spaces if I have an elderly person with me, imo they need to be closer to the shop entrance than a parent with a child and also may need help getting out so the wider space is helpful.

But again in the situation the op described paying the fine is basically saying the clampers are correct.

Soultion:

voxpop

Im a parent with child - but never use the spaces, I still park in the far corner of the carpark to avoid dings. Im amazed sometimes at the length ppl will go to park as close to the door as possible.

sogood

If I went to the supermarket with my very elderly mother or father, then technically we would be a "parent and child" although I would be a 52 year old child, and not a "child" in law, ( which I think is anyone under 17) but still my Fathers child.( At least thats what my mother says!)

ibarelycare

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Deffo a case for diecrimination. Would have taken the clampers details, ie his name his bosses name and given these to my solicitor. Would ahev paid the fee and gotten it back ten fold from a court.

The other thing about this thread is the amount of people who say the park in the P&C spots even if they have no kids with them. Thsi annoys the f**k out of me, The spots are wider than normal parking spaces to allow parents room to get the kids into the back of the car. This will also stop other peoples cars getting door dings. I use P&C parking spots regulary and have seen all types of stupid parking, people parking at an angle marking it near impossible to get the kids in. 1 time I was parked in a end P&C space only to come out of the shopping centre to find some gimp have parked in the hatched area beside me right beside the passanger side of the car. The was also a car parked closey to the drivers side. Since the child was still in the Rock-A-Tot this made getting the Baby into the car impossible. I had to get my wife to stand in the p1ssing rain while I reversed back, blocked traffic while I put the child back into the car. The owner of the other car did come out and the amount of abuse I gave her was unreal.

So please unless you have a child in the car the needs to be in a child seat or booster seat, do not park in the P&C spaces.

Meh...the parent & child spaces are a load of crap IMO. How on earth did our parents manage 20 years ago when they'd bigger families to lug to the supermarket and no parent & child spaces? :rolleyes: I don't make it a mission to park in these spaces but if the place is really busy and I can't find another space I'll use them.

Also, is there an age limit on these spaces? I saw a woman go mad at a couple for parking in one of them one day. The couple had one of their elderly parents with them, who had a zimmer frame and who needed a good bit of space to get out of the car. The couple just ignored the woman and walked off, but they had two arguments there.

1. There was a parent & child in the car
2. They needed the extra room to accomodate the mother with the zimmer frame.

Sorry, but it annoys me to see self-righteous parents (often women in their big SUVs with ONE child in the back) demand these spaces. Feck off!

Robertr

I actually saw a woman crossing the road under these lights the other day. What is the world coming to.

voxpop

ibarelycare wrote:

Meh...the parent & child spaces are a load of crap IMO. How on earth did our parents manage 20 years ago when they'd bigger families to lug to the supermarket and no parent & child spaces? I don't make it a mission to park in these spaces but if the place is really busy and I can't find another space I'll use them.

Also, is there an age limit on these spaces? I saw a woman go mad at a couple for parking in one of them one day. The couple had one of their elderly parents with them, who had a zimmer frame and who needed a good bit of space to get out of the car. The couple just ignored the woman and walked off, but they had two arguments there.

1. There was a parent & child in the car
2. They needed the extra room to accomodate the mother with the zimmer frame.

Sorry, but it annoys me to see self-righteous parents (often women in their big SUVs with ONE child in the back) demand these spaces. Feck off!

I think its more about courtesy than following rules when parking in these spaces. I wouldnt park in a disabled spot, even if there was no fine. I wouldnt block a junction even if there is no yellow box. I let ppl merge from side roads if traffic is slow or stopped.
Do you really need to park that close to the door ?

ibarelycare

voxpop wrote: »

I think its more about courtesy than following rules when parking in these spaces. I wouldnt park in a disabled spot, even if there was no fine. I wouldnt block a junction even if there is no yellow box. I let ppl merge from side roads if traffic is slow or stopped.
Do you really need to park that close to the door ?

It's not about needing to park close to the door. I said I'll park in one if there are no other spaces. Disabled people NEED those big spaces, people with buggies don't. They've managed for decades without them. Sure I see mothers everyday parking in normal spaces, bringing buggies and bags back to the car and managing fine. They put the buggy behind the car, take the kid(s) out, put them in the car and then stow the buggy away. Disabled people usually need their wheelchairs beside them to get out of the car.

OldmanMondeo

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's not about needing to park close to the door. I said I'll park in one if there are no other spaces. Disabled people NEED those big spaces, people with buggies don't. They've managed for decades without them. Sure I see mothers everyday parking in normal spaces, bringing buggies and bags back to the car and managing fine. They put the buggy behind the car, take the kid(s) out, put them in the car and then stow the buggy away. Disabled people usually need their wheelchairs beside them to get out of the car.

But 20 years ago our parents didn't have big arkward child seats. Feck it there wasn't even rear seat belts. It is very difficult to strap a child into a car when you do not have enough room to open the door fully. Yes Normal parking spaces can used, but then you have people complaining / blaming on the newist dent on their car door.

BTW, Judging by your user name I presume you are just trolling for a argument. Your not getting one from me...

JHMEG

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's not about needing to park close to the door. I said I'll park in one if there are no other spaces. Disabled people NEED those big spaces, people with buggies don't. They've managed for decades without them. Sure I see mothers everyday parking in normal spaces, bringing buggies and bags back to the car and managing fine. They put the buggy behind the car, take the kid(s) out, put them in the car and then stow the buggy away. Disabled people usually need their wheelchairs beside them to get out of the car.

Buggies go in the boot and are not the problem.

Baby seats etc go in the doors, the doors need to be opened wide for getting them in, fastening up belts etc.

greener&leaner

ibarelycare wrote: »

Meh...the parent & child spaces are a load of crap IMO. How on earth did our parents manage 20 years ago when they'd bigger families to lug to the supermarket and no parent & child spaces? :rolleyes:

Sorry, but it annoys me to see self-righteous parents (often women in their big SUVs with ONE child in the back) demand these spaces. Feck off!

Even normal cars were alot smaller 20 years ago.
The VW Golf Mk 2 for instance was 1665mm - 1700mm wide.
The Mk 6 is 1779mm
Car Parking spaces on the other hand haven't increased in size.

Two Golfs parked next to each other in 1989 had 16cm of extra space between them compared to the modern version.

JHMEG

greener&leaner wrote: »

Even normal cars were alot smaller 20 years ago.

20 years ago (or a bit more) I travelled sitting on a cushion on the handbrake, while my siblings sat in the back where there were no seat belts at all.

ibarelycare

JHMEG wrote: »

20 years ago (or a bit more) I travelled sitting on a cushion on the handbrake, while my siblings sat in the back where there were no seat belts at all.

:eek: :D


Ok yeah so I completely forgot about the whole strapping the kids into the baby seat thing Disregard my whole argument! I'm obviously not a parent!

OldmanMondeo

ibarelycare wrote: »

:eek: :D


Ok yeah so I completely forgot about the whole strapping the kids into the baby seat thing Disregard my whole argument! I'm obviously not a parent!

Fair play to you. Not many would admit their mistake.

The Big Red Button

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

There is no debate here, the sign means 'Parent and child', not 'mother and child' so the clamper was in the wrong (provided of course there was in fact a child involved). If a case develops we know who will win.

I was once waiting for my misses outside Clanwilliam court and there was 4 car park spaces empty, clamper parks across the road and walks calmly over with clamp in hand as I had no ticket. I dont think he seen me in car till last second and came over to window. I told him my gf would be out in 5 minutes and I was not paying for ticket, he said he could not allow this and suggested I drive around the block.

I told him there was no other spaces being used and asked what the big deal was, my gf literally comes out at the same time everyday and maxmimum I wait ever is 15 minutes in car and NEVER have I seen the spots benig used. He tells me this makes no odds as I was parked illegally (which he was right of course). I refused to move and he then said 'right I warned you' and proceeded to try to clamp me.

What followed was 2 minutes of me driving forward and backwards in the 4 spots until my gf came out early (I rang her on mobile to explain what was happening) and by that stage a small crowd had gathered to watch some idiot in a car driving backwards and forwards and an even bigger idiot waiting for that split second I stopped. The only tricky bit was when my bemused gf refused to run into the car so I had to beg her to get in whilst trying not to laugh too much, she eventually did and we drove off to a mini round of applause.

All things considered although I loved doing it at the time but I would just drive around the block next time as I was afraid of knocking said clamper over which would not have been funny at all, but at time it felt good putting one over on him.

To be fair, you were completely in the wrong in that case ... couldn't you just have circled the block a couple of times. :rolleyes: I agree that clampers are sometimes a$$holes, but it's a nasty job, and it's not right to make things worse for those trying to just make a decent living.

I've no sympathy though for the clamper in the OPs case, he was clearly in the wrong!

mcwhirter

JHMEG wrote: »

20 years ago (or a bit more) I travelled sitting on a cushion on the handbrake, while my siblings sat in the back where there were no seat belts at all.

About 30 years ago, I travelled sitting in the engine compartment while my 8 siblings were in the boot, in a MINI.

fischer

chatterpillar wrote: »

To be fair, you were completely in the wrong in that case ... couldn't you just have circled the block a couple of times. :rolleyes: I agree that clampers are sometimes a$$holes, but it's a nasty job, and it's not right to make things worse for those trying to just make a decent living.

I've no sympathy though for the clamper in the OPs case, he was clearly in the wrong!

Are you sure its not legal to stop in a pay and display space without paying, provided the vehicle is occupied? I've always thought this was okay but I've no idea why I would have decided this!

Probably just something I made up to suit myself one day....

Fischer.

faceman

Getting back to the OP's story, presumably your man had his child with him at the time and not just the car seat?

Bluefoam

fischer wrote: »

Are you sure its not legal to stop in a pay and display space without paying, provided the vehicle is occupied? I've always thought this was okay but I've no idea why I would have decided this!

Probably just something I made up to suit myself one day....

Fischer.

I believe there is 15 minute leniency for offloading passengers/goods or picking up passengers/goods - it also allows time for the driver to get change/ticket - so the clampers should not go near the car during this time...

Wertz

Just like to add here that some people with children are annoyed at the likes of people like me with no kids using parent & child spaces...I don't know what it's like where you live but up my way most of the carparks are fairly new and are abundant with such parking spaces...I think at our local Dunnes there are about sixteen or so P&C spaces and maybe 4 disabled spots, this leaves the normal spaces much further away from the entrances than is even necessary...now I would normally not go shopping till late in the day, usually about 7-8 at night...by that stage most people have their kids home, not out shopping and the P&C spots aren't even being used (neither are the disabled ones, but I still don't park in those) by anyone with a child. If it's 11am or something I park where I can get a space because P&C spots are all being used (legitimately or otherwise)...

My question on the legality of such spots missed a crucial point...since 99% of these P&C spots are in private carparks, they can sort of do as they wish...impose speed limits, time restrictions, fees etc...and in the case where they employ private clamping companies, legality probably doesn't come into it.

Black_Knight

At 7-8 the clampers are gone home. Park anywhere.

The Big Red Button

fischer wrote: »

Are you sure its not legal to stop in a pay and display space without paying, provided the vehicle is occupied? I've always thought this was okay but I've no idea why I would have decided this!

Probably just something I made up to suit myself one day....

Fischer.

Don't get me wrong - I do it myself if I'm waiting to collect someone or whatever. But if a traffic warden came along and asked me to move, I'd do so without hesitation. After all, you're still taking up a place whether there's someone in the car or not. Not sure about the actual legalities of it though.

Wertz wrote: »

Just like to add here that some people with children are annoyed at the likes of people like me with no kids using parent & child spaces...I don't know what it's like where you live but up my way most of the carparks are fairly new and are abundant with such parking spaces...I think at our local Dunnes there are about sixteen or so P&C spaces and maybe 4 disabled spots, this leaves the normal spaces much further away from the entrances than is even necessary...now I would normally not go shopping till late in the day, usually about 7-8 at night...by that stage most people have their kids home, not out shopping and the P&C spots aren't even being used (neither are the disabled ones, but I still don't park in those) by anyone with a child.

See I still wouldn't park in those spaces even in that case, because I'm relatively young and able-bodied, and it's not going to kill me to walk the extra little bit, and I'd rather do that even if I was in a rush. I'd understand elderly people or sick people parking in the P&C spaces if they're not in use, but I'd just feel very lazy if I did so!

Patrickhegart

my opinion is that the clamper is correct.

Us men shouldnt be taking up these parking spaces, what happens when they are full and a woman with a kid comes and has to park miles away?

Mena

Patrickhegart wrote: »

my opinion is that the clamper is correct.

Us men shouldnt be taking up these parking spaces, what happens when they are full and a woman with a kid comes and has to park miles away?

She can damn well walk, same as any man who comes in to find all the P&C spaces filled.

The Big Red Button

Patrickhegart wrote: »

my opinion is that the clamper is correct.

Us men shouldnt be taking up these parking spaces, what happens when they are full and a woman with a kid comes and has to park miles away?

A man needs just as much space as a woman to manoeuvre at least one awkward, heavy child carrier yoke along with child(ren) out of the car. The doors of the car need to be opened fully, and that's why those spaces are made so wide.

As someone who is not a parent but who values her car, I would much rather if a father used the parent-and-child spaces when they're available, than if he parked beside me in a regular space out of some misguided sense of macho pride, and ended up putting a big dirty dinge in the side of my car when trying to get the kids out!

Bluefoam

Patrickhegart wrote: »

my opinion is that the clamper is correct.

Us men shouldnt be taking up these parking spaces, what happens when they are full and a woman with a kid comes and has to park miles away?

Yes the poor weak women - it must be so difficult for them to walk! Heaven forbid they should be away from the sink for to long. Maybe the men should carry them!

daveyboy_1ie

To be fair, you were completely in the wrong in that case ... couldn't you just have circled the block a couple of times. :rolleyes: I agree that clampers are sometimes a$$holes, but it's a nasty job, and it's not right to make things worse for those trying to just make a decent living.

I've no sympathy though for the clamper in the OPs case, he was clearly in the wrong!

Yeah I have to agree with you there, I was in the wrong 100% but my point is that he should have seen that I was literally only waiting for my gf and would be out within minutes, which is what angered me in the first place. Even if a few of the spaces had of been taken I would have moved, but the fact al of the spaces were not being used I found very jobs-worthy.

As for the OP, in that situation I would NEVER have paid as the clamper was clearly in the wrong and I would love to know how it turned out in the end.

Rowley Birkin QC

What if my mate and I park in one?

He is the parent of a child and I am the child of my parents.

Also, con-saws ftw.

Blue850

Con-saws :rolleyes:



Cordless grinder a much neater solution

Patrickhegart

Bluefoam wrote: »

Yes the poor weak women - it must be so difficult for them to walk! Heaven forbid they should be away from the sink for to long. Maybe the men should carry them!

Have you ever tried wheeling a trolley with €300 worth of groceries in it was well as a child? Its allot easier for a male to do this than a female.

All im saying is that id prefer if the dads didnt park there if its busy, if you cant understand this then ask your wives, or mother

gar_29

Patrickhegart wrote: »

my opinion is that the clamper is correct.

Us men shouldnt be taking up these parking spaces, what happens when they are full and a woman with a kid comes and has to park miles away?

a joke, hopefully?

cashmni1

gar_29 wrote: »

a joke, hopefully?

Troll...

Blue850

Blue850 wrote: »

Con-saws :rolleyes:

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu146/1_slick_deal/DC411.jpg

Cordless grinder a much neater solution

Grinders are too underpowered for my liking.:D

greener&leaner

My question on the legality of such spots missed a crucial point...since 99% of these P&C spots are in private carparks, they can sort of do as they wish...impose speed limits, time restrictions, fees etc...and in the case where they employ private clamping companies, legality probably doesn't come into it.

No, no they can't.
No one can do as they wish, even if they own the land.
The only people who can impose time restrictions, speed limits and fees are government bodies. Private companies and private individuals have no right to do any of these things. If a private entity is unhappy with your behaviour on their property they can ask you to leave, they can ask the police to remove you, they cannot themselves impose any fine or penalty. That is why we have a legal system in this country.

When a private company clamps your car they are (usually) unlawfully detaining your property. When they issue you with a "fine" it's not a fine, it's an invoice, and an invoice for a service you didn't request and for which there is no agreement to pay and there is no contract in place. It is not enforcable in any shape or form. They have as much power as security guards at the shopping centre compared to the Guards.

Rowley Birkin QC

Blue850 wrote: »

Con-saws :rolleyes:


Cordless grinder a much neater solution

Pffft, begone with your neatness!

I care not for puny cordless grinders.*

















*or the cost of replacing tyres inadvertandly bust by large con-saws.:o

Voodoomelon

In the case of the OP, I would have gotten out my Tip ex and drawn some very generous male genitalia on the stick woman.

gar_29

cashmni1 wrote: »

Troll...

not at all. but patrickhegart is off his trolley (bah-dum-tishhhhh) if he reckons only women should use them, and i reckon he's never tried going shopping with a mini-person in tow. those spaces are a god-send.

no1beemerfan

Forget the consaw.....................this is what you SHOULD use................





.................on the Clamper and if your a good shot on the clamp. If you've any bullets left.................. !!

Hagar

Keep a selection Boards.ie posters with you at all times.
One of them is sure to have a poker up his arse which you can use to pry the clamp off.

Cookie_Monster

chatterpillar wrote: »

A man needs just as much space as a woman to manoeuvre at least one awkward, heavy child carrier yoke along with child(ren) out of the car.

Men never need as much space as a woman to do anything :pac:

Wertz

greener&leaner wrote: »

No, no they can't.

Okay so imposed speed limits in retail parks are unenforcable too?
Interesting.
BTW my little add on at the end was just my cynical take on things, not a statement of fact.

Wertz

Wertz wrote: »

Okay so imposed speed limits in retail parks are unenforcable too?
t.

I think if its open to the public some laws apply though. For instance if a guard sees me doing doughnuts in my local Dunnes car park he will do more than give me a friendly wave.

Wertz

Guadalupe Green Brow wrote: »

I think if its open to the public some laws apply though. For instance if a guard sees me doing doughnuts in my local Dunnes car park he will do more than give me a friendly wave.

Of course, within reason...carparks aren't the best place to be speeding...but in the event I break the indicated 10mph limit in one I'm not technically breaking a law.

Wertz

Wertz wrote: »

Of course, within reason...carparks aren't the best place to be speeding...but in the event I break the indicated 10mph limit in one I'm not technically breaking a law.

I know what your saying, I dont think the owners of the carpark can do anything for braking the speed limit, sure what can they do? They would have no authority to even think about issuing a fine or anything like that .

In reality I think the only offences you could commit in a car park would come under the umbrella of endangering other members of the public, what ever you would be doing would have to be bad and you would have to be caught in the act by the Guards or possibly on cctv if your reg could be seen.

I honestly cannot understand how they can legally clamp a car in a private car park though. It has to be illegal to go interfering with another persons car.

greener&leaner

The answer is they can't legally do it.

Wertz

greener&leaner wrote: »

The answer is they can't legally do it.

In that case why isn't this practice being challenged more?

I know there's a big backlash against it in the UK, but haven't heard much about it here...

Guy:Incognito

JHMEG wrote: »

20 years ago (or a bit more) I travelled sitting on a cushion on the handbrake, while my siblings sat in the back where there were no seat belts at all.

I had one of those too. We had a small subaru van so my dad made a cushion for me the width of the space between the seats,:)




As for people who give out about parent and child spaces, posters are forever giveing out about people carriers parking beside them and dinging theirs doors or saying they avoid parking beside people carriers, so whats the issue? This way people with kids get wide spaces away from everyone else. I dont see why people get so wound up about these things, especially when so many people make a point of saying how they park well away from all other cars anyway, so even if the spots were normal ones they wouldnt be using them anyway.



I have no issue with clamoing or clampers. I have more issue with all the assholes I have to negotiate around on the roads and in carparks everyday that cant park or just dotn give a ****.

The car park is their property and they should be free to set and enforce rules as they see fit. If you dotn agree, then dont use their car park.

P.C.

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

But 20 years ago our parents didn't have big arkward child seats. Feck it there wasn't even rear seat belts. It is very difficult to strap a child into a car when you do not have enough room to open the door fully. Yes Normal parking spaces can used, but then you have people complaining / blaming on the newist dent on their car door.

BTW, Judging by your user name I presume you are just trolling for a argument. Your not getting one from me...

In 1981 my father bought a new Mercedes 300D - it had seatbelts in the back, I know because he made us use them.

Oh, and I was put in a child seat when I was a child, and I am a lot older than 20 years old.

greener&leaner wrote: »

Even normal cars were alot smaller 20 years ago.
The VW Golf Mk 2 for instance was 1665mm - 1700mm wide.
The Mk 6 is 1779mm
Car Parking spaces on the other hand haven't increased in size.

Two Golfs parked next to each other in 1989 had 16cm of extra space between them compared to the modern version.

My father had a old 240D Mercedes before he got his 300D - that old 240D was huge. We could not beleive how 'small' the 300D was.

In hindsight, that 1981 300D Mercedes was huge.

NewDubliner

Guadalupe Green Brow wrote: »

I honestly cannot understand how they can legally clamp a car in a private car park though. It has to be illegal to go interfering with another persons car.

There's probably a big list of T&Cs at the entrance to the car park & by entering you submit to whatever conditions they impose.

bungler

siobhank wrote: »

oh right, because I didn't understand how the clamper clamped the car with the guy standing there?! I would have attacked him too!

obviously this is discrimination though and a good one for Joe Duffy

did you not start a thread in after hours saying you do not like fat people? last time i checked that was discrimination, you should talk to joe

siobhank

bungler wrote: »

did you not start a thread in after hours saying you do not like fat people? last time i checked that was discrimination, you should talk to joe

Nope, I didn't, you obviously didn't read the thread before getting yourself banned for idiotic comments.