Power shower

nosmo-king

I want to buy a new power shower.
What is a good make .How much should I pay. Where should I buy to get good value. What info will the supplier need to know. What trade do I employ to instal.
Thanks for info.

Joey the lips

nosmo-king wrote: »

I want to buy a new power shower.
What is a good make .How much should I pay. Where should I buy to get good value. What info will the supplier need to know. What trade do I employ to instal.
Thanks for info.

Hi Nomo click on my link it shoud answer all the information on power showers, There is 3 models and all I suggest as being good its down to your budjet. I have put the most expensive first

1. AQUASTREAM thermostatic power shower

2. Triton AS2000 and AS2000XT T means thermstatic

3. KMT in kilkenny do a very good power shower it even has a snooze button to quiten it in the morning. I can not remember its name but if you call them they will also give you the closest agent.

Stratocaster

nosmo-king wrote: »

I want to buy a new power shower.
What is a good make .How much should I pay. Where should I buy to get good value. What info will the supplier need to know. What trade do I employ to instal.
Thanks for info.

There's always confusion with showers,

A power shower is a wall mounted unit located in the shower which pumps your hot and cold water supply.

An electric shower is a unit located in the shower which heats and pumps an incoming cold water supply.

Neither of these have a long life span, 3 years max if used regular. After 3 years parts need to be replaced and majority of the time its cheaper to buy a complete new unit and then the cycle repeats.

The only advantage of an electric shower or power shower is they provide a back up with instant hot water should any of your other hot water systems fail.

If its a power shower you have I would advice fitting a small shower booster pump and a separate mixing valve. This set up will cost a slight bit more than a power shower replacement but will out live any of the power showers on the market. They are easy to install once you can isolate the showers hot and cold supply's from the rest of your plumbing system.

If your dead set on the power shower, stick with the leading brands Triton and Mira being two of the biggest here. Parts and service back up is available with both these manufacturers.

Joey the lips

Stratocaster wrote: »

There's always confusion with showers,

A power shower is a wall mounted unit located in the shower which pumps your hot and cold water supply.

An electric shower is a unit located in the shower which heats and pumps an incoming cold water supply.

Neither of these have a long life span, 3 years max if used regular. After 3 years parts need to be replaced and majority of the time its cheaper to buy a complete new unit and then the cycle repeats.

The only advantage of an electric shower or power shower is they provide a back up with instant hot water should any of your other hot water systems fail.

If its a power shower you have I would advice fitting a small shower booster pump and a separate mixing valve. This set up will cost a slight bit more than a power shower replacement but will out live any of the power showers on the market. They are easy to install once you can isolate the showers hot and cold supply's from the rest of your plumbing system.

If your dead set on the power shower, stick with the leading brands Triton and Mira being two of the biggest here. Parts and service back up is available with both these manufacturers.

The no.1 brand of powershower is actually an aquastream thermostatic power shower as most plumbers will contest to! However as pointed out power showers dont actually heat water and if you feel that triton mira are the best then thats fine but as sales prove its actually an aquastream

I have a link attached to explain showers in detail

kenon

Joey the lips wrote: »

The no.1 brand of powershower is actually an aquastream thermostatic power shower as most plumbers will contest to!

Have one of these and its a fantastic shower! A few things have gone wrong with it though over the years...

Stratocaster

Joey the lips wrote: »

The no.1 brand of powershower is actually an aquastream thermostatic power shower as most plumbers will contest to! However as pointed out power showers dont actually heat water and if you feel that triton mira are the best then thats fine but as sales prove its actually an aquastream

I have a link attached to explain showers in detail

Its just a case of each to there own. I don't like the idea of electricity in a shower so I will always advice against. You also have the life span issue and the pressure is poor with both power and electric showers compared to a dedicated shower pump with a simple shower mixing valve.

I haven't fitted that many aquastream products I cant even remember the last. I take it there more associated with pumped. I wouldnt even concider the use of a pumped shower if I am sending both hot and cold to a shower. It depends on what type of plumbing work your involved in.

Carlow52

Stratocaster wrote: »

Its just a case of each to there own. I don't like the idea of electricity in a shower so I will always advice against. You also have the life span issue and the pressure is poor with both power and electric showers compared to a dedicated shower pump with a simple shower mixing valve.

I haven't fitted that many aquastream products I cant even remember the last. I take it there more associated with pumped. I wouldnt even concider the use of a pumped shower if I am sending both hot and cold to a shower. It depends on what type of plumbing work your involved in.

Can you explain what you mean by the above highlighted text please.

Joey the lips

Stratocaster wrote: »

Its just a case of each to there own. I don't like the idea of electricity in a shower so I will always advice against. You also have the life span issue and the pressure is poor with both power and electric showers compared to a dedicated shower pump with a simple shower mixing valve.

I haven't fitted that many aquastream products I cant even remember the last. I take it there more associated with pumped. I wouldnt even concider the use of a pumped shower if I am sending both hot and cold to a shower. It depends on what type of plumbing work your involved in.

There is a massive amount of contradiction in this statement. I should not be the one to correct it but. You need to learn your showers before you start advising.

Stratocaster

I don't see any contradictions and I'll admit I am not a electric/power shower expert. There is so many different electric showers, power showers, shower valves and so on available on the market here its hard to keep track of them all. Having said that I have fitted most of the electric and pumped range along with standard heatmerchant mixer type valves right up to the most expensive on the market Villeroy&Boch, Gibret etc.

I don't see what your issue is. The advice I am giving is correct. Power/electric showers have a short life span. Thats a fact. In general power/electric showers have a poor flow rate compared to pressurized supply shower mixing valves. Thats another fact.

If a customer would like a reliable shower with good pressure I will pressurize the entire plumbing system on newly built houses. If its a retro fit I will remove the pumped shower and use the hot and cold supplies to there full advantage by separating them from the plumbing system and connecting them to a individual shower pump located in the hotpress. This sums up the reason why I would not even consider the use of a pumped shower if there is hot and cold supply's to the shower.

I don't know what your back ground is, I have its a feeling its from a sales back ground. I am the person on the ground who deals with these shower problems after they have been sold to customers.

nosmo-king

nosmo-king wrote: »

I want to buy a new power shower.
What is a good make .How much should I pay. Where should I buy to get good value. What info will the supplier need to know. What trade do I employ to instal.
Thanks for info.

Thanks to all for your interest but I think I better explain myself better .... here goes,

(1)

I have ONE Triton T90i electric shower which as I understand it heats cold water used as it passes by the element(s). This works fine and I understand I can only have one of this type of shower.

(2)

I also have a shower mixer tap system ( hot & cold taps attached to the bath with a hose going up to a shower head) which I think is fed by gravity from emersion and attic tank. It is this system I want to change.

I want which ever system gives a good strong shower.

I hope this clears up any confusion and again thanks for your info.

Stratocaster

nosmo-king wrote: »

Thanks to all for your interest but I think I better explain myself better .... here goes,

(1)

I have ONE Triton T90i electric shower which as I understand it heats cold water used as it passes by the element(s). This works fine and I understand I can only have one of this type of shower.

(2)

I also have a shower mixer tap system ( hot & cold taps attached to the bath with a hose going up to a shower head) which I think is fed by gravity from emersion and attic tank. It is this system I want to change.

I want which ever system gives a good strong shower.

I hope this clears up any confusion and again thanks for your info.

So you have a electric shower, you don't have much of an option there. Just a straight swap of the shower unit. Forgot to mention due to the draw on the electricity created by an electric shower (which costs a fortune to run) your supply cant take two electric showers operating at the same time. You can install two electric showers but you must install a breaker switch. The switch wont allow two electric showers to run at same time.

If you read up on my posts you'll see its possible to pressurize the entire plumbing system by installing a booster pump to give you good pressure everywhere. The pump has hot and cold inlets and hot and cold outlets. It will take to long to write up the process. This is only suitable for 1/2 bed houses and apartments. The disadvantage to having the pump is the noise created while the pumps running. If your really interested in a process to boost just your bath let me know and I'll list it out.

Your baths cold supply is fed from the attic cold water storage, another cold supply from the attic tank goes into the cylinder. An immersion or heating coil heats the water in the cylinder and hot water goes to your bath from the cylinder outlet.

Joey the lips

nosmo-king wrote: »

Thanks to all for your interest but I think I better explain myself better .... here goes,

(1)

I have ONE Triton T90i electric shower which as I understand it heats cold water used as it passes by the element(s). This works fine and I understand I can only have one of this type of shower.

(2)

I also have a shower mixer tap system ( hot & cold taps attached to the bath with a hose going up to a shower head) which I think is fed by gravity from emersion and attic tank. It is this system I want to change.

I want which ever system gives a good strong shower.

I hope this clears up any confusion and again thanks for your info.

I am guessing that your triton T90 works fine you just want to get a better shower to replace the shower valve at the bath.

You have a couple of choices here and the best way to choose is down the demand and money

As your triton gives you all the instant hot water you need I would not see the point in installing a second one. Additionally you cannot use 2 pumped electric showers anyway So what i would consider is this

Replace you shower mixer saystem with just a set of bath taps and them ad a thermostatic low pressure shower valve on the wall. You can improve the shower by adding a booster pump in the hotpress. What the plumber will do is attach what is called a surrey valve/Warwick flange to the cylinder. This insures that you do not get air in the valve preventing knocking etc.

You second choice is to get a power shower, one of the models discussed with an inbuilt pump

However what ever you choose to do dont leave the mixer tap on the bath if your going to get one of the showers as you will have 2 hoses in the bath and this does not look well.

To be honest if you are trying to create someting special its going to cost you. So really let your budjet decide.

For example if you had 4k you could replace your cylinder, get a good shower valve and a booster pump with a 12" rainshower head but mose people end up with a 1000 euro budget which is a booster pump @ 1.5 barand a thermostic shower valve

Joey the lips

Stratocaster wrote: »

I don't see any contradictions and I'll admit I am not a electric/power shower expert. There is so many different electric showers, power showers, shower valves and so on available on the market here its hard to keep track of them all. Having said that I have fitted most of the electric and pumped range along with standard heatmerchant mixer type valves right up to the most expensive on the market Villeroy&Boch, Gibret etc.

I don't see what your issue is. The advice I am giving is correct. Power/electric showers have a short life span. Thats a fact. In general power/electric showers have a poor flow rate compared to pressurized supply shower mixing valves. Thats another fact.

If a customer would like a reliable shower with good pressure I will pressurize the entire plumbing system on newly built houses. If its a retro fit I will remove the pumped shower and use the hot and cold supplies to there full advantage by separating them from the plumbing system and connecting them to a individual shower pump located in the hotpress. This sums up the reason why I would not even consider the use of a pumped shower if there is hot and cold supply's to the shower.

I don't know what your back ground is, I have its a feeling its from a sales back ground. I am the person on the ground who deals with these shower problems after they have been sold to customers.

I am not argueing with you this information is equally incorrect! Needless to say you show your poor knowledge by saying a power shower has a poor flow rate. Thats daft!

Carlow52

nosmo-king wrote: »

Thanks to all for your interest but I think I better explain myself better .... here goes,

(1)

I have ONE Triton T90i electric shower which as I understand it heats cold water used as it passes by the element(s). This works fine and I understand I can only have one of this type of shower.

(2)

I also have a shower mixer tap system ( hot & cold taps attached to the bath with a hose going up to a shower head) which I think is fed by gravity from emersion and attic tank. It is this system I want to change.

I want which ever system gives a good strong shower.

I hope this clears up any confusion and again thanks for your info.

Have u 2 different places for these 2 showers or is the Triton over the bath
that has the mixer tap?

Anyway assuming the Titon is somewhere else, I have just finished a job where I fitted a Grundfos 1.5bar pump under the bath along with a new Mira thermostatic proper shower kit and a glass shower door.

Hot and cold taken from under the bath. Simple plumbing job

Client is ecstatic.

The existing bath is metal so happy days as opposed to plastic baths which eventually crack when used a lot as showers

Stratocaster

Joey the lips wrote: »

I am not argueing with you this information is equally incorrect! Needless to say you show your poor knowledge by saying a power shower has a poor flow rate. Thats daft!

I am not arguing either, but you seem to be getting wound up and I cant see why. Maybe my information could effect the sales of power showers. The information is correct, I am giving my knowledge based on over 10 years qualified plumbing experience. The problem is your not really reading my posts correctly.

A power shower has a poor flow rate "compared" to a pressurized system with a simple shower mixing valve. This is the truth. I have stated this compared reference to each post. You can install two electric showers provided you have a breaker switch to stop both being turned on at the same time.

Stratocaster

Carlow52 wrote: »

Have u 2 different places for these 2 showers or is the Triton over the bath
that has the mixer tap?

Anyway assuming the Titon is somewhere else, I have just finished a job where I fitted a Grundfos 1.5bar pump under the bath along with a new Mira thermostatic proper shower kit and a glass shower door.

Hot and cold taken from under the bath. Simple plumbing job

Client is ecstatic.

The existing bath is metal so happy days as opposed to plastic baths which eventually crack when used a lot as showers

I am not sure if you are allowed to do that, fitting a pump under a bath. Most jacuzzi baths etc have a special sealed jacuzzi pump which is waterproof for obvious reasons. I would be concerned with a run of the mill booster pump located under the bath for safety reasons, also might have some trouble with maintenance down the line.

Also these pumps have to have a dedicated water supply separate from the rest of the plumbing system. You cant supply a booster pump from the same supply that feeds taps etc. The only thing you have done to save the customer from being scalded should someone open a tap is by installing a thermo valve. Thats a really bad way to fit a booster pump, honestly.

Joey the lips

Stratocaster wrote: »

I am not arguing either, but you seem to be getting wound up and I cant see why. Maybe my information could effect the sales of power showers. The information is correct, I am giving my knowledge based on over 10 years qualified plumbing experience. The problem is your not really reading my posts correctly.

A power shower has a poor flow rate "compared" to a pressurized system with a simple shower mixing valve. This is the truth. I have stated this compared reference to each post. You can install two electric showers provided you have a breaker switch to stop both being turned on at the same time.

Your information is not correct and I am not getting wound up I am just stating fact! Your the one who brought up a pressurised system and you never actually said that. I can re quote what you said if it helps

I never said you cannot install 2 pumped electric showers I said you cannot use 2 together which is a fact and which makes it pointless installing them

and on the jacuzzi bath the chap said he took the supply from the hot and cold into the bath which is perfectly acceptable and does away with the need for a surrey valve.

Yes some jacuzzi's have a seperate supply but taking from the hot and cold in will not effect this and further more 95% of jacuzzis on the market are immatation whirlpools which do not have any supply. They only circulate the water in the bath.

OP. You should have enough information now. If you need anything else just ask.

Stratocaster

Joey the lips wrote: »

Your information is not correct and I am not getting wound up I am just stating fact! Your the one who brought up a pressurised system and you never actually said that. I can re quote what you said if it helps

I never said you cannot install 2 pumped electric showers I said you cannot use 2 together which is a fact and which makes it pointless installing them

and on the jacuzzi bath the chap said he took the supply from the hot and cold into the bath which is perfectly acceptable and does away with the need for a surrey valve.

Yes some jacuzzi's have a seperate supply but taking from the hot and cold in will not effect this and further more 95% of jacuzzis on the market are immatation whirlpools which do not have any supply. They only circulate the water in the bath.

OP. You should have enough information now. If you need anything else just ask.

Ok so your telling me having a grunfos booster pump supplied by pipes which also serve as supply's to other taps within the house is acceptable?

If someone draws water out of a tap in this type of installation the pump is going to be effected. These pumps must have there own dedicated supply's. You cant have other water drawn out pump supply pipe. You will introduce air and have aeration problems. You may also starve the pump of water and cause it to run dry. You could starve the pump of cold water if the draw is stronger from a tap down stairs. This will scald a person.

I have witnessed this problem first hand when a plumber was too lazy to take a separate feed from the attic tank to feed the pump. The plumber teed off the supply pipe to the cylinder. This created all sorts of problems around the house depending on what tap was opened as the shower was in use.

I mention the jacuzzi as a reference to a bath having an electrical item located underneath. This electrical item is constructed in a way to prevent water from entering the electrics. Its safe to be located under the bath. I am not sure of the construction of the gundfos pump which is mentioned above but I would be concerned with fitting one under a bath as I don't believe they are designed for that purpose.

deadl0ck

Hi all,
I have been following this thread with interest and I have a question.

Would I be correct in saying that a power shower uses less power than an electric power (due to the fact it doesn't heat the water) ?

Also - if that's the case, is there a lighter gauge electric wire used to feed a power shower ?

The reason I ask is that I'm currently building a new house.

Thanks !

Stratocaster

deadl0ck wrote: »

Hi all,
I have been following this thread with interest and I have a question.

Would I be correct in saying that a power shower uses less power than an electric power (due to the fact it doesn't heat the water) ?

Also - if that's the case, is there a lighter gauge electric wire used to feed a power shower ?

The reason I ask is that I'm currently building a new house.

Thanks !

Yes you are correct in most cases. If you already know which power shower your fitting find out how many kw/current etc it draws and ask a qualified electrician which flex is most suitable. In general as you say, it can be a lighter gauge but it depends on the power shower.

Outkast_IRE

Stratocaster wrote: »

An electric shower is a unit located in the shower which heats and pumps an incoming cold water supply.

Neither of these have a long life span, 3 years max if used regular. After 3 years parts need to be replaced and majority of the time its cheaper to buy a complete new unit and then the cycle repeats.

.

3 years? we have two electric showers in our house . One off mains one off tank in atiic . One is used 3 or 4 times a day the other a few times a week , We have been in the house twenty years and have only replaced each shower once. both are mira .

It can depend a lot on the water quality, i have lots of problems with the water in Ireland effecting the electric heaters my firm make.

Stratocaster

gary71 wrote: »

It can depend a lot on the water quality, i have lots of problems with the water in Ireland effecting the electric heaters my firm make.

Well said.

Outkast IRE you might be one of the few lucky people who's supply is filtered and your hard water is removed. You could live close to the freshwater lake supplying the mains and your getting a water main rich with additives designed to remove the hardness. Your supply could be from your own well and you look after the quality of the water by replacing the salts in the filter regularly. This kind of water supply is few and far between.

The water mains here is not treated well enough to deal with those further down the line so in these houses hardness in the water causes all sorts of problems. I have to take this disadvantage on board when designing plumbing systems so I always advise against the use of both electric and pumped showers.

Having said all that it is great to see one of my recommended manufactures electric/pumped showers lasting the distance. Even though they may not be Ireland's biggest selling brand, as some have mentioned. Its great to see you have mentioned Mira. Thanks.

Joey the lips

deadl0ck wrote: »

Hi all,
I have been following this thread with interest and I have a question.

Would I be correct in saying that a power shower uses less power than an electric power (due to the fact it doesn't heat the water) ?

Also - if that's the case, is there a lighter gauge electric wire used to feed a power shower ?

The reason I ask is that I'm currently building a new house.

Thanks !

To be honest while you are doing it there is no harm running both type of wires to the shower and board just dont connect the one you dont abv want. This way you have a choice later.
Yes a power shower uses a lighter gauge as it is not drawing as strong a current. As you point out correctly this is because it is not heating the water but only pumping it.

I am guessing that as its a new house build you will have a couple of bathrooms. It makes perfect sense to run a pumped electric shower to at least one bathroom meaning this bathroom will need the heaver gauge. The reason it makes sense is it gives you water on demand but more importantly gives you hot water on demand.

As apposed to power showers the top selling brands of pumped electric shower would be a mira elite 2 or a triton t90.

Joey the lips

gary71 wrote: »

It can depend a lot on the water quality, i have lots of problems with the water in Ireland effecting the electric heaters my firm make.

The pumped electric shower is the first one to suffer because of water quality. First the head cloggs up usually indicating a build up of hardness around the element.

What i have hound and rec is you bath the head of the shower once a month in clear vinager(Not malt it stains) this breaks down the hardness in the head and actually perlongs the life of the shower

If hardness is a particular problem in your area I would not waste my money buying an expensive pumped electric shower like Mira/Triton. I would simply buy a cheap one like Red ring. The pumped electric shower is not going to last long because of the hardness anyhow.

A special note to all readers in. I am constantly getting people asking why they should pay 300 euro for a shower when argos does them for 200. The reason is this, 90% of all argos showers are electric showers. This means they heat the water only. They do not pump it. They are equiv to the T80. This is why they are so much cheaper.

Your suppliers will know this so dont advertise the fact that argos does cheaper showers than them or they will know you have not a clue what your talking about and this hurts your barginning power

deadl0ck

Great info guys - thanks again.

The house will have a gravity fed water system, so it looks like a pumped electric shower is the way to go.

I'm looking some of the different types available here, and it seems that any of the cool/stylish looking showers are all just electric showers, as opposed to pumped electric.

Do you know of any modern looking pumped electric showers that you would recommend as we don't mind spending a bit extra on a better looking system?

(BTW, all water going into the attic tank will have gone through a water softener first, so we should get a decent life out of our shower)

Outkast_IRE

Live in a Cork city subarb so i the water is well treated id say, was talking to a former county council head honcho the other day and he said they make an extra effort with water quality to help attract big companies to the area pharmas and the like.

Stratocaster

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Live in a Cork city subarb so i the water is well treated id say, was talking to a former county council head honcho the other day and he said they make an extra effort with water quality to help attract big companies to the area pharmas and the like.

Thanks Outkast this is a perfect example of how my information is correct. There is no set standard of water quality here so people should take the time and do some study before selecting a shower.

Too often they will listen to advice given from shower reps/interior designers. The problem is this said advise has been drip fed from the showers manufactures. In the majority of cases the shower reps/interior designers will not take the plumbers/householders information and advice on board as this could effect the sale of the item or change the overall appearance of the shower.

Most prefer a quick no hassle decision or sale and worry about it later.

superbad50

i just put one up on adverts brand new in the box , meant to be one of the best on the market so i am told . t90xr http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=131284&cat=32 .

Stratocaster

deadl0ck wrote: »

Great info guys - thanks again.

The house will have a gravity fed water system, so it looks like a pumped electric shower is the way to go.

I'm looking some of the different types available here, and it seems that any of the cool/stylish looking showers are all just electric showers, as opposed to pumped electric.

Do you know of any modern looking pumped electric showers that you would recommend as we don't mind spending a bit extra on a better looking system?

(BTW, all water going into the attic tank will have gone through a water softener first, so we should get a decent life out of our shower)

If you are set on a pumped electric shower the only advice I can now give is to select a brand which has been proven to outlive the guarantee. Mira and Triton. There is proof of this statement within this thread also I have seen Mira and Triton outliving the guarantee stated in various other web pages associated with plumbing.

Stratocaster

Joey the lips wrote: »

The pumped electric shower is the first one to suffer because of water quality. First the head cloggs up usually indicating a build up of hardness around the element.

What i have hound and rec is you bath the head of the shower once a month in clear vinager(Not malt it stains) this breaks down the hardness in the head and actually perlongs the life of the shower

If hardness is a particular problem in your area I would not waste my money buying an expensive pumped electric shower like Mira/Triton. I would simply buy a cheap one like Red ring. The pumped electric shower is not going to last long because of the hardness anyhow.

A special note to all readers in. I am constantly getting people asking why they should pay 300 euro for a shower when argos does them for 200. The reason is this, 90% of all argos showers are electric showers. This means they heat the water only. They do not pump it. They are equiv to the T80. This is why they are so much cheaper.

Your suppliers will know this so dont advertise the fact that argos does cheaper showers than them or they will know you have not a clue what your talking about and this hurts your barginning power

If hardness is a particular problem in your area you will continue to waste even more money if you buy a cheaper brand like Red ring. Common sense will tell you to steer clear of any type of electric shower and to look at other shower options.