SIPTU hot air?

harsea8

Just read this article out today in the Indo ( http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/siptu-hit-out-as-370-jobs-go-at-element-six-1835339.html ) and I am genuinely interested to know if SIPTU have a leg to stand on regarding their rant about redundancy pay...if the company is virtually shutting up shop in Ireland and has paid the statutory redundancy entitlement, then surely there is nothing SIPTU or the workers can do. Sure they could strike and blockade the building, but then element six could just lay off the remaining 80 staff and sod-off never to return

Basically, just wondering if the SIPTU comments are based on substance or more hot air?

mtldockers

This particular company is not going bust, it's just not making enough profit over here. That company has a HUGE amount of money and 1 week for redundancy pay is absurd! Yes i agree that if a company goes completely tits up that statutory redundancy is plenty but not when it's a multi-billion dollar corporation like this!

harsea8

I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of their actions, and I'm certainly not looking to start yet another thread about how the "fat cats" have shafted us all. I'm simply asking a question about how much leverage SIPTU actually have in a situation where a company is effectively leaving the country....just interested if anyone knows

mtldockers

Well it all depends on what agreement the company have with the workers. The place I work in for example has an agreement to negotiate all changes and redundancies with the union so they would hold some leverage there. Some employers prefer that their staff are in a union so they don't have to negotiate with all the individuals but rather just the shop stewards and branch rep.

diverdriver

The reality is that they don't have any leverage. It was pretty much the same with SR Technics. If they were looking for voluntary redundancies they would offer a decent package to go. Not always, I took a very poor voluntary package not much better than the one offered at element six. But when they're pulling out it's take it or leave it time. You are only entitled to statutory and sometimes you don't even get that. SIPTU are just huffing and puffing.

zootroid

This will appear off-topic, but indulge me for a minute. I have come to despise SIPTU, and this is one of the reasons:

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0724/mortgage.html

Earlier, the general president of the SIPTU union, Jack O'Connor, said he would write to Minister Lenihan calling on him to withdraw the Government's guarantee from banks which plan to raise interest rates to mortgage holders.

Now, can someone please tell me what Permanent TSB raising interest rates has got to do with SIPTU?

In my opinion, the unions have gotten far too powerful, and are partly responsible for the mess the country is in (huge wage demands driving up costs and making the country uncompetitive.)

No. 11

harsea8 wrote: »

Just read this article out today in the Indo ( http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/siptu-hit-out-as-370-jobs-go-at-element-six-1835339.html ) and I am genuinely interested to know if SIPTU have a leg to stand on regarding their rant about redundancy pay...if the company is virtually shutting up shop in Ireland and has paid the statutory redundancy entitlement, then surely there is nothing SIPTU or the workers can do. Sure they could strike and blockade the building, but then element six could just lay off the remaining 80 staff and sod-off never to return

Basically, just wondering if the SIPTU comments are based on substance or more hot air?

Firstly, we should consider those remaining 80 jobs gone already and instead view this as a staged withdrawal.

Secondly, the facts on the ground are that the workers in Element Six have immense leverage and are motivated by the knowledge that they have nothing to lose but potentially everything to gain by taking action.

As has been widely reported in the media, the Element Six plant in Shannon still have orders on their books and will be continuing full production right up until the planned closure date. These contracts are worth millions to the De Beers group and any action by workers in Shannon would prove very, very costly indeed.

Furthermore, when it comes to public relations, what is clear is that any action by the workers would receive massive support from right across the Mid-West region - which has become a jobs blackhole in recent times - and from around the country. The overwhelming solidarity which greeted the Waterford Crystal occupation shows that people will support those who declare what workers everywhere are thinking: that enough is enough - we're through paying for your crisis.

There's no need for SIPTU or the workers to rely on bluster, they have a strong hand to play and both they and the company know this.

zootroid wrote: »

This will appear off-topic, but indulge me for a minute. I have come to despise SIPTU, and this is one of the reasons:

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0724/mortgage.html

Now, can someone please tell me what Permanent TSB raising interest rates has got to do with SIPTU?

In my opinion, the unions have gotten far too powerful, and are partly responsible for the mess the country is in (huge wage demands driving up costs and making the country uncompetitive.)

Workers looking for a share of the massive wealth created during the boom are not responsible for the recession. A few emerged from the bubble with millions while the rest of us emerged shackled in debt.

The responsibility for our loss of "competitiveness" lies with the developers and bankers whose speculation and greed drove costs up way beyond the means of ordinary workers. According to the OECD, when cost of living is taking into account, Ireland's average wage is 40% below the British average.