Lisbon 2 The Return!

almostnever

Too young to vote,but if I could,it'd be a yes.

thelordofcheese

snyper wrote: »

while i agree with you, that is the fact imo, most people couldnt be arsed.

Well then fuck them and their shitty opinions. On the run up to Lisbon II: electric boogaloo, there's going to be a lot of talk about peoples vote not being respected, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Frankly, while voting is a right, it also comes with the responsibility to be an informed voter. Democracy works best when the electorate are informed, and seek to inform themselves. When people start with "i didn't read it/i was too difficult to understand" and crying that nobody did the thinking for them then follow that their vote is not being respected, i have to ask, why should it be?

If democracy is so sacred to you, then live up to your side of the bargin.

And before anyone starts sniveling, this applies regardless of how you'd vote. Yes or No. If you're not going to inform yourself on the issue, just stay the fuck at home.

MaGrOtTeN

vinylmesh wrote: »

Still worded just as dodgily as before.

Don't trust the eurocrats tbh.

If one country choses not to adopt a new law that has NOTHING to do with international relations, i do not see why they should be required to force the law upon that country.

As a lot of people seem to be forgetting, the only reason we are being faced with this issue now in Ireland is out of respect for our (in my opinion expired and out of date) constitution, because it cannot be overriden so easily.

The people who wrote the constitution foresaw the need to protect Ireland's integrity by placing big decisions on the Irish public. If anybody does not trust 'the Eurocrats,' that means you don't trust the organisation that has single-handedly saved Ireland's collective ass from the Irish!
And yes I am Irish before you have a go.

Think about it, where have our roads come from?
How has our rubbish been cleaned up?
Why are our beaches cleaner?
Why have workers rights been protected?
Why have consumers rights been protected?

Why are people are paranoid about this vote. All the facts are there for you to read, so go and do so and shut up about the wording of the Treaty. I don't want my country to be the greedy spoiled brat of Europe, destroying everything it touches, but guess what, that's Ireland.

MaGrOtTeN

thelordofcheese wrote: »

If you're not going to inform yourself on the issue, just stay the fuck at home.

I think this deserves another appearance!

Gavin "shels"

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'll be voting No. I think it's a disgrace it's being held again.

EU democracy: I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it but you'll keep having to vote again until I do.

I'll be voting No for this exact reason. Nothing has changed in the Treaty, therefore for the feck should we be voting again, the people already have said No.

Ted The Thread

Biggins wrote: »

Voting yet again "NO".
The European superpowers can go fcuk themselves.

Good Man yourself, Comrade!

Re-Name it The Dublin Treaty and I guarantee it will get a yes. If i could vote I would vote No. see sig.

MaGrOtTeN

There is a legally binding protocol that has been written purely to satisfy the nay-sayers. This includes clarification on military neutrality, abortion(which should be legal here anyway for many reasons) a chancellor, and other issues that were raised by 'NO' parties - Libertas/Sinn Fein/other assholes.


I am not a FF voter, but Cowen realised what he had to do to satisfy public opinion on this and he did it.
Most of the people who voted No did so because they didn't understand the treaty and were afraid that Irish sovereignty would be eroded. These aren't valid reasons.


NO voters, can you actually present any good argument to explain your vote?

Matt, Swords

MaGrOtTeN

Biggins wrote: »

Voting yet again "NO".
The European superpowers can go fcuk themselves.

That is ridiculous. Why don't you learn how to channel your anarchism into something useful. Present an argument. Convince me why you are right.

The only people getting 'fcuked' are US, the Irish, the nation of the GREEDY.

MaGrOtTeN

Gavin shels wrote: »

I'll be voting No for this exact reason. Nothing has changed in the Treaty, therefore for the feck should we be voting again, the people already have said No.

We now have a protocol to satisfy the points raised by your contemporaries.

Infact, the people have said: "I don't understand, so I'm voting no."
I heard it everywhere.


What is wrong with you people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Morzadec

MaGrOtTeN wrote: »

NO voters, can you actually present any good argument to explain your vote?

Matt, Swords

I havn't seen any so far to be honest.

So far its mainly been 'to stick it to FF/Cowen' :rolleyes:

I suppose that now that all the ridiculous reasons of a No vote last time (a loss of sovereignty, abortion, conscription into a mass European army, crab-people:D, etc...) have been dealt with, they have to come up with a new ridiculous reason to vote no.

That and the old favourite of course: 'I don't know what I'm voting on'. Lordofthecheese summed up my sentiments on this particular one...

Gavin "shels"

MaGrOtTeN wrote: »

We now have a protocol to satisfy the points raised by your contemporaries.

Infact, the people have said: "I don't understand, so I'm voting no."
I heard it everywhere.


What is wrong with you people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ye a protocol, but the Treaty itself, there hasn't been one comma changed in it.;)

thelordofcheese

Gavin shels wrote: »

Ye a protocol, but the Treaty itself, there hasn't been one comma changed in it.;)

And your point is what, exactly?

BlitzKrieg

Gavin shels wrote: »

Ye a protocol, but the Treaty itself, there hasn't been one comma changed in it.;)

did anything needed to be changed?

The issues were addressed, what do you want changed?

towel401

My name is URL wrote: »

I know a Yes would get Ireland out of this hole we're in faster

I suppose having a Lisbon 3 would cost the state more money it doesn't have...

timmyotoole

Voting no, this should not be voted on a second time, no was the answer and should be respected no matter how you feel on the subject.

Also in relation to concessions, did any other countries get concessions ?? . What about all those countries that didn't get a vote on this treaty. As far as i am concerned id vote no on the basis that this treaty has NOT been voted by all the people of the eu.

Plus i don't want tony blair as my eu president , whether he has any power or not . No to the U.S. of E.

BlitzKrieg

Also in relation to concessions, did any other countries get concessions ??

yes.

take a look at the protocol section of the treaty and it lists all the concessions each state has gotten from all the treaties.

With Lisbon the UK got a few concessions (as did Ireland) in the area of security and law

MaGrOtTeN

timmyotoole wrote: »

As far as i am concerned id vote no on the basis that this treaty has NOT been voted by all the people of the eu.

That's a poor reason IMO, it wasn't required that all the people of the EU vote. I have explained why already in this thread.

Why don't you vote for what's really best for Ireland?
And what has been best for decades?

Voting Yes in Lisbon allows the EU to streamline it's decision making process and function more efficiently without the wheels of Europe grinding to a halt every time an amendment is needed.

Maybe the EU should carry on regardless if this is the reaction, and Ireland should be given an option to vote on leaving the EU. Oh dear.....

thelordofcheese

timmyotoole wrote: »

Also in relation to concessions, did any other countries get concessions ?? . What about all those countries that didn't get a vote on this treaty. As far as i am concerned id vote no on the basis that this treaty has NOT been voted by all the people of the eu.

Once again, basic failure of comprehension with regards to the EU.

1] Referenda are not the standard method of ratifcation in the EU, we are an oddity in that regard

2] All treaties come with the instruction that they be ratified by each member state in accordance with their own laws, be it via a referendum or parlimentary vote.

I'll never tire of the irony of people who claim that the EU doesn't respect our process and will then insist that our process be enforced on the rest of the EU.

The cognitive dissonance is staggering

gobby

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The overall consensus the last time was that people weren't sure about various implications and wanted reassurances on parts of the treaty. The government thought it would be unlikely to be able to secure these guarantees. The no vote won on this basis. The government sucked it up, and against all odds argued until they got their guarantees. Now there are people saying they'll vote no out of spite because obviously the government lied, when in reality they accepted the feedback of the referendum, took the measures demanded by the people and are now seeking approval in light of this. There are an enormous amount of staggeringly unintelligent people in this country.

Exactly the reason that I will vote yes this time around

MaGrOtTeN

gobby wrote: »

Exactly the reason that I will vote yes this time around

So you would have voted No before, and now you are accepting that the protocol has satisfied the issues of the No campaign, and are honoring this with a Yes the second time around because there is nothing left to dispute.

You are a good citizen!

sdanseo

I really would love to know what the outcome of a popular vote in te other 26 countries would be if they had the chance to hold one. Surely not all of them would pass it.

Oh, and fair fecks to the Czech President. Apparently he's said he will refuse to sign the treaty despite his parliament approving it if we don't get a yes here.

MaGrOtTeN

sdonn wrote: »

Oh, and fair fecks to the Czech President. Apparently he's said he will refuse to sign the treaty despite his parliament approving it if we don't get a yes here.

I don't think he deserves any Kudos.
He can't seem to make up his mind without Ireland, what kind of leadership does that show.

All these stupid arguments.......

Firefox10

You would think more people would vote yes this time round after Declan Ganley was exposed for the fraud that he was during the local and European elections. Didnt vote last time but will be voting yes to this.

AckwelFoley

As a yes voter i can tell you that there are no concessions in Lisbon 2

It basically went like this..

Cowen and his crew went to Europe and apologised for not getting Lisbon passed

Europe said -well its primarly fault you fay bollox because you didnt do your job in properly informing the people on what lisbon is about.

Cowen says... look, if we can just write guarentees into the treaty about neutrality, abortion, conscription and our tax rates into the treaty i think we can get it passed..


Europe says... eh wut? The treaty doesnt affect those issues?!

Cowen.. i know but...

Europe.. Mmmkay... We'll write it in fcuking big bold block capitals for yiz..
Now.. dont come back without a yes vote .. otherwise your pissant of a little country can fcuk off and sail your own boat alone..and dont exppect any more sails or patches for that sinking little ship you have if you keep slapping us in the face.

*In the mean time Declan Ganly bows out - knowing his bull**** lies wont be believed a second time but happy he did his job for corperate america*

K-9

sdonn wrote: »

I really would love to know what the outcome of a popular vote in te other 26 countries would be if they had the chance to hold one. Surely not all of them would pass it.

Oh, and fair fecks to the Czech President. Apparently he's said he will refuse to sign the treaty despite his parliament approving it if we don't get a yes here.

That has little to do with us, more internal Czech politics.

unreggd

I really hope its a no again

Ive no interest in politics, but think ill actually vote this time

The fact its back is the same reason its pointless

Will we have a third one?

They still didnt explain why a yes vote is better, and its not guarantee we'll recover any better

We could improve all by ourselves, and keep that for ourselves

Keep in mind all inter-EU "help" will be levelled, so it'll just be a slower process IMO

marco_polo

sdonn wrote: »

I really would love to know what the outcome of a popular vote in te other 26 countries would be if they had the chance to hold one. Surely not all of them would pass it.

Oh, and fair fecks to the Czech President. Apparently he's said he will refuse to sign the treaty despite his parliament approving it if we don't get a yes here.

What a true democrat.

Davidius

As long as they don't get to amend our constitution without asking us or completely bypassing it, I probably don't care.

That or it steals money for me.

It doesn't do that, right? That'd be silly!

TheZohanS

Davidius wrote: »

As long as they don't get to amend our constitution without asking us or completely bypassing it

It doesn't do that, right? That'd be silly!

It does, but that just means we won't have to vote on more silly referenda on certain things.

The men in Brussels will make up our minds for us, we can trust them they smile a lot.

We'd be silly not to vote yes!