The UK is Finished!! Consequences for Ireland

johnathan woss

I suppose it's not a big deal if you believe

a) there's always going to be plentiful oil and natural gas around to allow Britain to grow even as much as it does now

b) there's always going to be plentiful oil around to allow food to be transported huge distances economically

c) food exporters are not going to have any problems themselves and are going to continue exporting the same volumes they do now



Good luck with that.

ejmaztec

johnathan woss wrote: »

Why don't you do some research then instead of losing your temper.

A simple google search brought up this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/may/11/foodanddrink.food

"British farmers and growers now produce only 60 per cent of the food we eat "

Just because they produce 60% of what they eat doesn't mean to say that's all that they can produce.

RealityCheck

johnathan woss wrote: »

I suppose it's not a big deal if you believe

a) there's always going to be plentiful oil and natural gas around to allow Britain to grow even as much as it does now

b) there's always going to be plentiful oil around to allow food to be transported huge distances economically

c) food exporters are not going to have any problems themselves and are going to continue exporting the same volumes they do now



Good luck with that.

But what timescale are we talking? I believe Britain ( or any western country) will not have a problem adapting to any changes in global food supply as any change wont happen overnight.

Thats all I have to say about it. Look who knows what the world will be like in 10 years. Things dont always happen as predicted so maybe you will be proved right although I strongly doubt it.

johnathan woss

RealityCheck wrote: »

But what timescale are we talking? I believe Britain ( or any western country) will not have a problem adapting to any changes in global food supply as any change wont happen overnight.

Thats all I have to say about it. Look who knows what the world will be like in 10 years. Things dont always happen as predicted so maybe you will be proved right although I strongly doubt it.

Believe me, I hope I'm wrong.

gjim

Aaron1 wrote: »

This year there will be approx 33bn taken in taxes - thats only about 23% of GNP!

Source?

Nulty

Sorry for interupting.

Control, Control, Control.

Lisbon, World economy crash, Everyone feeling vulnerable, Buying into world government like suckers.

Control, Control, Control.

ei.sdraob

gjim wrote: »

Source?

let me help

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016605.shtml

As contained in the April budget, 2009 tax revenue is now estimated at €34.4 billion, close to the €34 billion pre-Budget estimate. This represents a fall of 30% in the original projected tax intake on 2008 and a 15.6% fall in the 2009 projected tax revenue

loads of figures there from may, probably gets worse as the year goes and numbers are revised, i heard lower numbers quoted since

Nulty wrote: »

Sorry for interupting.

Control, Control, Control.

Lisbon, World economy crash, Everyone feeling vulnerable, Buying into world government like suckers.

Control, Control, Control.

uhm there is a conspiracy forum, whats up with tinfoil brigade? were you neglected as children or something and crave to be "controled"??

kevteljeur

RealityCheck wrote: »

I'd hardly think thats evidence to suggest any potential mass starvation. Wow they import 40% of what they eat, big deal. I mean it would be near impossible to expect that percentage to be much higher. Thats a reasonable percentage considering that a lot of british grown food is more expensive than much of the imported food stuffs.

Actually out of curiosity how much Irish food is imported?, I could not find a percentage given for it?

Another way to look at it (in very simplistic terms) is this:

I make half the food I eat. I buy the other half from you. Starvation! Except, I also make cars. I sell the cars to you at more than it costs me to make them. This pays for the other half of the food I need. In fact, if the value of the cars I sell to you is more than the food then in fact I'm working on a profit. At least I can aim to break even.


It would be nice to know about Irish food import percentages, definitely. We have a case here of:

I make half the food I eat. I buy the other half from you. Starvation! Except, I also make houses. I sell the houses to me at more than it cost me to make them, and I borrow to make up the difference, from you. This pays for the other half of the food I need. In fact, if the value of the houses I sell to me is more than the food, then in fact it just makes my situation acutely worse, or if you decide to stop lending, or if I decide I can no longer afford my own houses. And I still need to get half of my food from you.


Hmm, I should remember that one. It would have been good for the 'Germany should bail us out because we're so special' thread, a hilarious exploration of the Irish recessionary mind-set. Any economists in the house can tell me if that's Irish Economics for kids in a nutshell?

(The follow-up:
You tell me to stop running my economy this way. I take my c*ck out and wave it at you. You stop lending to me. I stop buying my own houses, and my economy comes to a grinding halt. I decide on a strategy to pay you back, which is to be cleverer than you and sell you the difference in cleverness. Despite all the evidence to suggest the my situation is a symptom of an acute deficit of cleverness, and that you clearly believe at this point that I need to shut up and stand in a corner with a pointy hat until you've figured out what to do with me.

Oh, and the kids move to your place, which sort of gives you my cleverness for free.)



.

Aaron1

Originally Posted by gjim

Originally Posted by Aaron1
This year there will be approx 33bn taken in taxes - thats only about 23% of GNP!

Source?

ei.sdraob wrote: »

let me help

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016605.shtml


Quote:
As contained in the April budget, 2009 tax revenue is now estimated at €34.4 billion, close to the €34 billion pre-Budget estimate. This represents a fall of 30% in the original projected tax intake on 2008 and a 15.6% fall in the 2009 projected tax revenue

loads of figures there from may, probably gets worse as the year goes and numbers are revised, i heard lower numbers quoted since

Thanks for the link ei.sdraob. The GNP/GDP figures are here http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/economy/current/qna.pdf . GNP for the first 3 months of 2009 was 35.598bn. That is 142bn annualised, assuming no further falls for the rest of the year. On the latest estimate of tax take of 34.4bn, that's 24% of GNP (and 20% of GDP). Taxes need to go up a lot, in addition to spending cuts.

creeper1

An important feature of this realisation that the UK is finished is that there will be no return to the 1980s for Ireland.

Now believe me - I put more faith into Jim Rodgers says than I would any politician. If you look at the guy's career and how much money he has made it speaks for itself.

The 1980s was charachterised in Ireland by emigration across the water to the UK. That aint going to be an option this time. The UK will not be a place to find work and even if you did with Sterling performing piss poor you'd probably be better off in Ireland.

It's time to go to China! That's right. The time has come for us to ditch the English speaking countries of UK, USA, Australia and New Zealand as traditional emmigration destinations.

Get your Mandarin Phrase book out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_07yTQjv4I

creeper1

Want to know another reason why they are finished? It's not just oil and the city of London.

Their Stupid Government has created a system where it is better to have children. Where it is better not to work. Where it is better not to aspire not to be anything other then a teen parent. No wonder so many teen's there are getting up the duff. Their country is a shambles. And I am worried that Ireland will follow their lead.

The west is a sinking ship. Time to get out.

kevteljeur

creeper1 wrote: »

Want to know another reason why they are finished? It's not just oil and the city of London.

Their Stupid Government has created a system where it is better to have children. Where it is better not to work. Where it is better not to aspire not to be anything other then a teen parent. No wonder so many teen's there are getting up the duff. Their country is a shambles. And I am worried that Ireland will follow their lead.

The west is a sinking ship. Time to get out.

That might be true of the UK, but here you need to build houses to get subsidised, and that's pretty much finished too. Child benefit will get cut, means-tested and then taxed. So, eventually we'll have an ageing population with no-one earning enough to pay the pensions of the aged. An ingenious solution to the crisis, I'd have thought.



.

ei.sdraob

kevteljeur wrote: »

That might be true of the UK, but here you need to build houses to get subsidised, and that's pretty much finished too. Child benefit will get cut, means-tested and then taxed. So, eventually we'll have an ageing population with no-one earning enough to pay the pensions of the aged. An ingenious solution to the crisis, I'd have thought.



.

just because there is less children doesnt mean it be harder to pay for pensions

productivity rises with time and new technologies

and finally why should someone else pay for your pension? or yo upay for someone elses?

people should be made to mantain their own pensions, if they decide to blow this money instead of saving (sadly a savings culture is badly lacking and is why this recession is so severe as no one saved for rainy day) then its their tough luck

its perverse to say "we need children to pay our pensions" younger generations are not our slaves, why cant we take care of ourselves instead of passing the buck

sheesh

Fratton Fred

johnathan woss wrote: »

What do you disagree so strongly with ?

1) That Britain won't be able to feed its current population in the long term

or

2) That this will be a problem

I guess if it comes to it, Tesco will have to stop exporting all that food to Ireland that is costing so many jobs.

Then maybe all the british farmers will have to get off their arses and start growing food again instead of rape and linseed oil.

creeper1 wrote: »

Want to know another reason why they are finished? It's not just oil and the city of London.

Their Stupid Government has created a system where it is better to have children. Where it is better not to work. Where it is better not to aspire not to be anything other then a teen parent. No wonder so many teen's there are getting up the duff. Their country is a shambles. And I am worried that Ireland will follow their lead.

The west is a sinking ship. Time to get out.

€160 euros per month, per child. €300 euro a week for not working?

methinks you switched nationalitites mid-post

jmayo

Nulty wrote: »

Sorry for interupting.

Control, Control, Control.

Lisbon, World economy crash, Everyone feeling vulnerable, Buying into world government like suckers.

Control, Control, Control.

Jim is it yourself ?
Any chance of organising a date for us with Andrea

For anyone that believes UK cannot feed itself.
During WWII it converted lots of unused un productive land to the gorwing of crops. Yes they had rationing, but since 1945 Uk farm production has dramatically increased due to better crops, more efficient farming methods and scientific advances.
Over the last decade or so the EU has trottled back farming all over the EU due to over production and creation of food mountains.
Imagine if this stumbling block was removed how much more farmers could produce ?

Salvelinus

Nulty wrote: »

Sorry for interupting.

Control, Control, Control.

Lisbon, World economy crash, Everyone feeling vulnerable, Buying into world government like suckers.

Control, Control, Control.

What color shell suit do you were these days David? Enlighten us as to how you're not like the rest of the sheeple.

creeper1

Well they are going to have to rename the country just Britain. It's high time that the title "great" was dropped.

The only thing great is their debt.

So what is in the news? This is !!!!!!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5901961/British-economic-collapse-rivals-Great-Depression.html

That's right. It is a rerun of the great depression for the UK. I repeat Irish dissillusioned at home are going to have to head to Asia or somewhere else.

No return to the eighties for Ireland.

The UK is finished. Finished. Finished.

kevteljeur

creeper1 wrote: »

Well they are going to have to rename the country just Britain. It's high time that the title "great" was dropped.

The only thing great is their debt.

So what is in the news? This is !!!!!!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5901961/British-economic-collapse-rivals-Great-Depression.html

That's right. It is a rerun of the great depression for the UK. I repeat Irish dissillusioned at home are going to have to head to Asia or somewhere else.

No return to the eighties for Ireland.

The UK is finished. Finished. Finished.

I read somewhere else that everyone is going to leave the island and they're going to scuttle it, if they can't sell it to Bolivia. It is truly finished.



.

philologos

creeper1 wrote: »

Yes it is. 100 percent true. They are finished. This just hot off the press.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jul/22/recession-uk-recovery-2014-national-debt

If the national debt is the main basis you have for the UK being finished, many countries have a national debt especially right now including Ireland, and given Barack Obama's stimulus package and the incoming health stuff the USA will have a mighty big national debt (hitting over $12 trillion this year) to deal with.

harsea8

what the f*ck has this bigoted load of sh*ite got to do with the Irish economy....all this thread consists of is a one twat's personal gleefest over the problems of a neighbouring country that he obviously detests...lock the thread mods as this is f*ck all to do with Ireland!

pork99

creeper1 wrote: »

Well they are going to have to rename the country just Britain. It's high time that the title "great" was dropped.

The only thing great is their debt.

So what is in the news? This is !!!!!!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5901961/British-economic-collapse-rivals-Great-Depression.html

That's right. It is a rerun of the great depression for the UK. I repeat Irish dissillusioned at home are going to have to head to Asia or somewhere else.

No return to the eighties for Ireland.

The UK is finished. Finished. Finished.

If that is correct it is extremely bad news for us. And for the rest of Europe.

It might actually be worse than the 1930s. The 30s depression hit traditional heavy industries in the North of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Other regions such as the London & the South East, and the West Midlands did quite well economically as demand for cars and the products of light industry such as consumer electrical goods grew quite healthily in the decade before the war. This recession seems to effect the entire UK economy.


btw the "Great" in Great Britain isn't an act of hubris. In the Middle Ages the French and the French speaking Normans referred to the island of Britain as "Grand Bretagne" to distinguish it from nearby "Bretagne" or the Duchy of Brittany. Nothing to do with the Brits "biging" themselves up.

weepee

As a northerner, and an Irish citizen, I would say that the UK is far from finished as a
world financial power house. Britain has the ability to come out of recession better than
most EU economies.

'Made in the UK' is still a respected brand.

This whole thing just doesnt make sense.

Noffles

harsea8 wrote: »

what the f*ck has this bigoted load of sh*ite got to do with the Irish economy....all this thread consists of is a one twat's personal gleefest over the problems of a neighbouring country that he obviously detests...lock the thread mods as this is f*ck all to do with Ireland!

I hated this BASTARD thread when it first reared it's ugly head, why is it still ongoing, one pricks selective posting with any details on how Great Britain is struggling... I'd really like to see a similar thread on every other economy that is in trouble by the same poster... f*cking pathetic!!

jmayo

creeper1 wrote: »

Well they are going to have to rename the country just Britain. It's high time that the title "great" was dropped.

The only thing great is their debt.

So what is in the news? This is !!!!!!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5901961/British-economic-collapse-rivals-Great-Depression.html

That's right. It is a rerun of the great depression for the UK. I repeat Irish dissillusioned at home are going to have to head to Asia or somewhere else.

No return to the eighties for Ireland.

The UK is finished. Finished. Finished.

How come you are posting in the early hours of the morning ?
Are you overseas, on night shift or is after you get home from the pub/nightclub and you decide that the rest of us would like to hear how you are having wet dreams because you believe a country and a people you despise are going down the tubes ?

Can this thread be closed as other posters have asked as it is just one delussional hoping that his fantasy comes true ?

Small Change

jmayo wrote: »

Can this thread be closed as other posters have asked as it is just one delussional hoping that his fantasy comes true ?

^^ This please

ardmacha

Any chance of organising a date for us with Andrea

Probably not, she got hitched last week.

The UK is not finished, any more than Ireland is finished. It is in some difficulty however, the flexibility of having a central bank and a currency has been used to delay the full impact. The point is that some in the UK would have you believe that everything is fine there while the evil €uro is behind Ireland's decline. In reality it was really a boom and bust property cycle here that has more in common with the UK than any other part of Europe.

As a northerner, and an Irish citizen, I would say that the UK is far from finished as a world financial power house. Britain has the ability to come out of recession better than most EU economies.

The problem, historically, is that the UK has had bigger recessions to come out of, two steps forward, one step back. NI is a big recipient of UK public expenditure, which is going to be less in the future. Just as the Republic will have to refocus on paying its way, rather than selling property and the like, so the North will have to look to its private sector to take up the slack of a public sector that will be spending more on debt interest than anything else.

weepee

Sounds about right, tho I think London still bends the purse strings for Stormont, simply to keep both sides 'on board'.

creeper1

jmayo wrote: »

How come you are posting in the early hours of the morning ?
Are you overseas, on night shift or is after you get home from the pub/nightclub and you decide that the rest of us would like to hear how you are having wet dreams because you believe a country and a people you despise are going down the tubes ?

Can this thread be closed as other posters have asked as it is just one delussional hoping that his fantasy comes true ?

Seems like someone needs to get a life. What the hell you doing tracking my posting patterns.:rolleyes:

If you must know I am true to my own advice. Unfortunately I have left Ireland and I can't see any return possible.

That's right I now work and live in Asia. South Korea to be exact. I type this message from Malaysia which I am visiting.

The future is Asia. Sorry guys the truth is the whole of the West is finished.

hiorta

""The future is Asia."" That certainly seems to be the way it is going.

Aren't all these evolutionary things cyclical, with various doomed attempts to manipulate them by several means?

Such are the selfish economic systems of 'civilisation'.

ei.sdraob

Even in the decades after it lost its empire, Britain strode the world like a pocket superpower. Its economic strength and cultural heft, its nuclear-backed military might, its extraordinary relationship with America—all these things helped this small island nation to punch well above its weight class. Now all that is changing as the bills come due on Britain's role in last year's financial meltdown, the rescue of the banks, and the ensuing recession. Suddenly, the sun that once never set on the British Empire is casting long shadows over what's left of Britain's imperial ambitions, and the country is having to rethink its role in the world—perhaps as Little Britain, certainly as a lesser Britain.

This is a watershed moment for the United Kingdom. The country's public debt is soaring, possibly doubling to a record high of 100 percent of GDP over the next five years, according to the International Monetary Fund. The National Institute for Economic and Social Research forecasts that it will take six years for per capita income to reach early-2008 levels again. The effects will cascade across government. Budgets will be slashed at the Ministry of Defense and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, affecting Britain's ability to project power, hard and soft. And there's little that can be done to reverse the trend, either by Prime Minister Gordon Brown or by the incoming government of David Cameron's Conservatives, assuming they win a general election that must be held within the next 10 months. As William Hague, Cameron's deputy and shadow foreign secretary, said in a recent speech: "It will become more difficult over time for Britain to exert on world affairs the influence which we are used to."

History has been closing in on Britain for some time. The rise of giant emerging economies like China and India always meant that Britain would have a smaller seat at the increasingly crowded top table of nations. It also meant that the United States would recalibrate the so-called special relationship as it sought new partners and alliances, inevitably shrinking the disproportionate role Britain has long played in world affairs. Brown's predecessor, Tony Blair, made a final stab at greatness with what amounted to a 51st-state strategy: by locking Britain into America's wars—on terror, in Afghanistan, and in Iraq—London achieved an importance it hadn't had since Churchill and the war. But whatever advantage Britain gained in the short term was wiped out by the political damage Blair's strategy caused at home. Ordinary Britons and even members of the British establishment grew increasingly critical of what they saw as London's subservient relationship with Washington. Blair's authority was diminished, his political agenda at home suffered as a result, and it became clear that Britain's geopolitical default setting would no longer be to automatically follow America's lead. In fact, Blair may merely have postponed the inevitable: a lesser Britain is a consequence of world events, not unlike the slow relative decline of the United States, which finds itself today where Britain was at its apogee.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/209953?from=rss