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Buggies not allowed in Restaurants

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    #62
    ceannair06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭ceannair06


    How about trains ?

    There were two kids the other day on the train down to Cork from Heuston who refused to put their buggies down and seat the children as "they weren't sure how to".

    So they blocked the aisle until they were asked to move and then blocked the area by the doors/toilets.

    It was a complete inconvenience and they didn't care - this is the problem.

    Posters on here who are considerate are no problem at all and as long as the kid is well behaved - and you take action when it isn't - then surely we can all eat at the same places ?

    It's the inconsiderate mothers who we have a problem with.

    Oh and one thing, "you'll think different when you have kids" ? Possibly true, but very patronising and annoying so stop doing it.


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    #63
    Enii
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭Enii


    Ludo wrote: »
    Try one parent controlling two or more kids who are just walking. All they want to do is run as far and as fast as they can and don't yet understand the concept of not running off.

    .


    Surely you wouldn't be out in a restaurant with 2 or more kids who "All they want to do is run as far and as fast as they can and don't yet understand the concept of not running off"........ pity the people sitting beside you....never mind the fact you will probably insist on leaving your buggy in the way of everyone



    Maybe a walk in the park with a picnic would be more suitable then a visit to a restaurant for these kids?


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    #64
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    ceannair06 wrote: »
    Oh and one thing, "you'll think different when you have kids" ? Possibly true, but very patronising and annoying so stop doing it.

    Is it as patronising and annoying as non-parents coming in here saying how easy something is or suggesting an obvious solution when they have no experience of what they are talking about?

    Like EVERY walk of life, the minority always give the majority a bad name and then some people will only see the actions of the minority as the common practise of that group.


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    #65
    Enii
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭Enii


    littlebug wrote: »
    Have to say I've never brought my two into restaurants by choice in the evenings when they were small enough to be in a buggy. I just wouldn't have enjoyed my own meal if I was trying to keep small children controlled and quiet. It's different by day if you're out shopping.... yes you do have to sit/ eat somewhere. I learnt fairly early with my first that the nice little cafes I used to go to were now a no no... and quickly figured out which ones were child friendly and spacious enough to have the buggy beside me if the child was asleep. I keep the pleasure of the non child friendly places for the rare occasions that I'm out by myself or just with the oh.

    Very sensible approach....


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    #66
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Enii wrote: »
    Surely you wouldn't be out in a restaurant with 2 or more kids who "All they want to do is run as far and as fast as they can and don't yet understand the concept of not running off"........ pity the people sitting beside you....never mind the fact you will probably insist on leaving your buggy in the way of everyone

    All they want to do is run when they are put standing or walking. Put them in their buggy or a high chair and they are fine though and enjoy themselves quietly with a toy or eat their food and have a chat.

    Thanks for thinking you know my kids better than I do though and for being so presumptuous to know how I behave when out and about. Do you always make assumptions about people like that and then air them in public when you havent a clue what you are talking about?


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    #67
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Ludo wrote: »
    Try one parent controlling two or more kids who are just walking. All they want to do is run as far and as fast as they can and don't yet understand the concept of not running off.

    And what if they are not walking yet? All great obvious solutions provided here for slightly older kids but not very useful under 2's.
    Thats rubbish. What, so now one parent is beyond controling two children? That's total claptrap.


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    #68
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Ludo wrote: »
    Is it as patronising and annoying as non-parents coming in here saying how easy something is or suggesting an obvious solution when they have no experience of what they are talking about?
    Assuming that the people you are arguing against aren't parents or have no experience of caring for children is arrogant. Very arrogant, and wrong.


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    #69
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Ludo wrote: »
    Thanks for thinking you know my kids better than I do though and for being so presumptuous to know how I behave when out and about. Do you always make assumptions about people like that and then air them in public when you havent a clue what you are talking about?

    You're guilty of that yourself.
    Ludo wrote: »
    Is it as patronising and annoying as non-parents coming in here saying how easy something is or suggesting an obvious solution when they have no experience of what they are talking about?


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    #70
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Zulu wrote: »
    Thats rubbish. What, so now one parent is beyond controling two children? That's total claptrap.

    At a certain age...without use of a buggy (or reins) or looking like a complete fool chasing after kids running in different directions then yes. Feel free to borrow a pair of twins and see how you manage. I regularly meet twin parents and they all have the same problems controlling them when they are just walking/running but not able to understand the concept of not running off.
    So you are plain wrong to say it is claptrap.


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    #71
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Zulu wrote: »
    Assuming that the people you are arguing against aren't parents or have no experience of caring for children is arrogant. Very arrogant, and wrong.

    I wasn't assuming...the person I was arguing against fully admitted he didn't have kids so nothing arrogant whatsoever in what I said as I didn't assume anything.
    MagicMarker wrote: »
    You're guilty of that yourself.

    Not really as you admitted you don't have kids...therefore I didn't need to assume anything.


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    #72
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Ludo wrote: »
    I wasn't assuming...the person I was arguing against fully admitted he didn't have kids so nothing arrogant whatsoever in what I said as I didn't assume anything.



    Not really as you admitted you don't have kids...therefore I didn't need to assume anything.
    You assumed I have ''absolutely no experience'' with kids. Not having kids doesn't really mean no experience, does it?


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    #73
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    You assumed I have ''absolutely no experience'' with kids. Not having kids doesn't really mean no experience, does it?

    Nope...I just value the opinion of parents who spend all their time with their kids and have lots of experience of uncontrolled environments and kids at all developmental stages more than someone who comes on to blatantly troll and admits they dont have kids.


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    #74
    Noffles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Noffles


    Glad to hear that places are standing up to the buggy brigade, they're just hassle in my opinion and YES I do have a child and am well aware of the hassles of prams and buggies and have experienced it.

    Most places just aren't designed for these things and even when parents insist on bringing them in to establishments that aren't designed for them they should expect to be a hindrance!!


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    #75
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,557 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Would it be fair to say that we're not as child-friendly as our continental cousins, and that we're more like the UK in our attitude to (other peoples') kids?


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    #76
    Enii
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭Enii


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    Would it be fair to say that we're not as child-friendly as our continental cousins, and that we're more like the UK in our attitude to (other peoples') kids?

    Are we not child-friendly as a country or are our parents not as considerate as our continental cousins?

    Do our continental cousins have higher standards in relation to their children's behaviour in restaurants?
    Or do our continental cousins have the cop on to realise that just because they are parents they do not have the right to block up aisles in trains and restaurants with buggies?


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    #77
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Ludo wrote: »
    Nope...I just value the opinion of parents who spend all their time with their kids and have lots of experience of uncontrolled environments and kids at all developmental stages more than someone who comes on to blatantly troll and admits they dont have kids.
    Oh no, god forbid I admit I don't have kids, in a parenting forum of all places!! :rolleyes:

    Just because I don't share your opinion, doesn't mean I'm a troll.

    Oh, and you again assume you know of my experience with kids, of which you have no clue.


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    #78
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Oh no, god forbid I admit I don't have kids, in a parenting forum of all places!! :rolleyes:

    Just because I don't share your opinion, doesn't mean I'm a troll.

    A difference of opinion doesn't make you a troll and neither does not being a parent...your attitude does that. Your first post in this thread marked you as that. Notice the way the whole thread went from being a sensible debate to the crap fest it has become since your post. Coincidence?


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    #79
    ceannair06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭ceannair06


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Oh no, god forbid I admit I don't have kids, in a parenting forum of all places!! :rolleyes:

    Just because I don't share your opinion, doesn't mean I'm a troll.

    Oh, and you again assume you know of my experience with kids, of which you have no clue.

    Agreed MagicMarker - I am so tired of being given the "you don't have kids so you don't understand" spiel.

    What is not to understand ?

    This huge piece of metal on wheels has just hit me in the leg and I am bleeding. Yes, I get that despite not pushing out a kid.

    It's 8pm and I am trying to have quiet drink in an establishment aimed at the over 18s. The 5 year old haring round the room screaming is annoying - I appreciate that, even without the stretchmarks.

    Seriously, you decided to have children yourselves - it was not decreed by Our Lord so it does not automatically make you immune to criticism!


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    #80
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    ceannair06 wrote: »
    It's 8pm and I am trying to have quiet drink in an establishment aimed at the over 18s. The 5 year old haring round the room screaming is annoying - I appreciate that, even without the stretchmarks.

    For clarification as this has gone way off topic (and I am a guily party to that)....

    Nothing is more annoying than kids in a pub or restaraunt in the evening. Any defense I am making of allowing buggies into establishments only applies to places with suffucuent space and applies during day time only.


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    #81
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Its pretty obvious some people have no experience of kids from their comments. Even if you have kids. Not all kids are the same. Some will need buggies some won't. For example I have no idea what its like to feed kids who won't eat. Mine savage everything. Etc. Likewise if you don't cycle you won't understand why it can be safer to stay out of the cycle lane. Etc. You might not think so, but certain comments are very clearly speaking from no experience.

    You can't fit a gallon into a pint pot. You can't bring a buggy where it does fit.


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    #82
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Ludo wrote: »
    At a certain age...without use of a buggy (or reins) or looking like a complete fool chasing after kids running in different directions then yes. Feel free to borrow a pair of twins and see how you manage.
    No need, I know exactly how I'd manage.
    So you are plain wrong to say it is claptrap.
    No. I'm not. It's claptrap. Plenty of adults are able to care for more than one child. I'm one.
    Ludo wrote: »
    I wasn't assuming...the person I was arguing against fully admitted he didn't have kids so nothing arrogant whatsoever in what I said as I didn't assume anything.
    I never admitted to any such thing. You assumed I've no experience.

    You also assumed I could use the experience of caring for twins. Which is wrong. Totally wrong.


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    #83
    Enii
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭Enii


    I guess it is a matter of a sense of entitlement.......

    Some people feel that they are entitled to keep their buggy in the upright position - at the same time blocking the aisles, making if difficult for customers to get around to their table, making it dangerous for staff to deliver food and also making other customers think twice about entering the premises.

    All the above indicates why owners loathe the buggies and also indicates how selfish some people can be.......


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    #84
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Zulu wrote: »
    No need, I know exactly how I'd manage.

    No. I'm not. It's claptrap. Plenty of adults are able to care for more than one child. I'm one.

    I never admitted to any such thing. You assumed I've no experience.

    You also assumed I could use the experience of caring for twins. Which is wrong. Totally wrong.

    Of course adults can care for more that one child...where on earth did I say they couldn't? All I said is that at a certain age more control may be needed over them to keep them in check.

    Anyway, I wasn't even talking about you initially until you said I was talking claptrap which is wrong. I am the one minding my kids so for you to say that what I say about my kids being difficult to control at this age is claptrap is simply incorrect as you don;t know them . All kids are different. I am going by my experience with them and the experience of other twin parents I meet. Yours is obviously different.

    So can I ask how you control your twins at this age when out walking? I am serious here...if I get them both out of the car (or even out the front door of the house) they will take off as it is all new to them. I can hold their hands but they are both pig-headed about trying to go where they want to and if they both pick different to run in, I am screwed. I end up looking like a rope in a tug of war and then they both start screaming as I won't let them go. One of them is becoming easier now but the other one is still determined to do what he wants.
    Picking one up doesn't work as the other will still try running for it and the one in your one freem arm will start struggling.
    Sos you go through this phase? Any advice? Again..not trying to be smart or anything here so if you have a suggestion I would like to hear it.


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    #85
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    ceannair06 wrote: »
    Agreed MagicMarker - I am so tired of being given the "you don't have kids so you don't understand" spiel.

    What is not to understand ?

    This huge piece of metal on wheels has just hit me in the leg and I am bleeding. Yes, I get that despite not pushing out a kid.

    It's 8pm and I am trying to have quiet drink in an establishment aimed at the over 18s. The 5 year old haring round the room screaming is annoying - I appreciate that, even without the stretchmarks.

    Seriously, you decided to have children yourselves - it was not decreed by Our Lord so it does not automatically make you immune to criticism!

    For a start 5yr generally aren't in buggies. They'd be well over the max weight from a practical point of view. Even if you could cram them in. ;) I know because I've been trying to find a buggy that does for a 5yr with a condition that means they need to jump on a buggy from time to time.


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    #86
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Ludo wrote: »
    Anyway, I wasn't even talking about you initially until you said I was talking claptrap which is wrong.
    What I said was: it's claptrap that one parent can't control more than one child. (Where the other parent drops them outside the resturant) I stand by that.

    You can try and alter or minipulate that to suit whatever end you want, but it doesn't change the fact that your response here:
    Ludo wrote:
    Try one parent controlling two or more kids who are just walking. All they want to do is run as far and as fast as they can and don't yet understand the concept of not running off.

    And what if they are not walking yet? All great obvious solutions provided here for slightly older kids but not very useful under 2's.
    is claptrap.


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    #87
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Ludo wrote: »
    Of course adults can care for more that one child...where on earth did I say they couldn't? All I said is that at a certain age more control may be needed over them to keep them in check.....

    Doesn't even have to be twins. Some kids are just more of a handful than other. I wouldn't have bought my first to a cafe, whereas the others have been fine. Different temperment.


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    #88
    Enii
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭Enii


    Ludo wrote: »
    Of course adults can care for more that one child...where on earth did I say they couldn't? All I said is that at a certain age more control may be needed over them to keep them in check.

    .


    Try one parent controlling two or more kids who are just walking. All they want to do is run as far and as fast as they can and don't yet understand the concept of not running off.

    And what if they are not walking yet? All great obvious solutions provided here for slightly older kids but not very useful under 2's.


    - I took from the above that you were saying 2 parents would be needed in the above situation.


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    #89
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Ludo wrote: »
    So can I ask how you control your twins at this age when out walking? I am serious here...
    Out walking? It's not easy. Two boys; two directions: faster than a speeding bullet. Use the buggy.

    ...but the thread is about buggies in resturants.
    if I get them both out of the car (or even out the front door of the house) they will take off as it is all new to them.
    Well, I used to grab hold of one, while sorting the other.
    Sos you go through this phase? Any advice? Again..not trying to be smart or anything here so if you have a suggestion I would like to hear it.
    No your grand. I understand. Use the buggy and car seats. Hold one. Pick up one (you end up picking up everything else!)

    By the way, I'm an uncle to twin boys. Thankfully.


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    #90
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    ceannair06 wrote: »
    Oh and one thing, "you'll think different when you have kids" ? Possibly true, but very patronising and annoying so stop doing it.

    It's a parenting forum.

    Everyone has the right to an opinion about kids, especially when you are affected by them as this thread attests, but that's not a green light for repeated lectures about the logistics of childcare directed at parents from people who don't have kids.


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    #91
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Enii wrote: »
    Are we not child-friendly as a country or are our parents not as considerate as our continental cousins?

    Do our continental cousins have higher standards in relation to their children's behaviour in restaurants?
    Or do our continental cousins have the cop on to realise that just because they are parents they do not have the right to block up aisles in trains and restaurants with buggies?

    Places like Italy, Spain there are vastly more child friendly. People can't do enough to help you. People here would walk over you to suit themselves.


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