Buggies not allowed in Restaurants

Hellrazer

DublinWriter wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that we're not as child-friendly as our continental cousins, and that we're more like the UK in our attitude to (other peoples') kids?

Been following this thread for the last couple of days now and honestly I have to say I agree 100% with Dublin writers assumption.

As a father of four--11,7, 2 and 1 I find the whole attitude of both businesses and the general public when we go anywhere is wrong.

We usually go for a meal on a Sunday but we avoid places that arent "child friendly"
If you dont want me to go and spend 60-100 euros in your establishment(especially in these tough times) just because I have kids then fine--Ill spend it where Im welcome.

Bostonb mentioned earlier that sometimes its necessary to have a buggy near you--With our 1 year old its a necessity for all the baby stuff ie the stuff for keeping her quiet,treats,nappies.Aswell as that sometimes she just wants to climb into it and sleep which gives everyone a break and allows the rest of us to enjoy our meal in peace.

Our other 3 are grand whenever we eat out--they know their place and know they cant run around like lunatics (the 1 year old is another story though if shes in one of her moods)

But back on to Dublinwriters response.The attitude on the continent is totally different.We were away for a couple of weeks back in June and the way kids are treated is completely different to over here.Over there you dont get the eyes up to heaven when the youngest is acting up or the comments said in quiet voices or the "look"--parents of kids that act up know the "look" that the public give you when the kids are a bit noisy.

The reason I beleive is that on the continent the kids are treated that way because they see them for what they are---KIDS,CHILDREN,NOT something that can be trained to behave like an adult.

They arent old enough to conform to your standards and they arent old enough to understand that they have to sit for a meal and be quiet---That comes with socialising them to these situations but if youre constantly in fear of bringing them somewhere that you might feel uncomfortable in because they might act up then how are you supposed to teach them whats right at meal times.

Just my 2c.

Enii

Hellrazer wrote: »

---That comes with socialising them to these situations but if youre constantly in fear of bringing them somewhere that you might feel uncomfortable in because they might act up then how are you supposed to teach them whats right at meal times.

Just my 2c.

Well said! However what about the parents who aren't actually interesting in socialising their kids and teaching them how to behave properly in restaurants.

What about the parents who think it is acceptable to let their children run around while they eat their own food.

I have experienced a child coming over to our table and eating a chip off my nephews plate!!!! The parents thought it was cute(!)......now I don't think that is right.........

Ludo

Zulu wrote: »

What I said was: it's claptrap that one parent can't control more than one child. (Where the other parent drops them outside the resturant) I stand by that.

You can control them in that situation BUT it is highly likely to upset them as they will want to do their own thing once they are set down. The very act of one parent trying to control them will result in them getting upset as they don't get their own way. And getting them all upset just before going into a restaraunt is not a good idea as the end result is predictable...annoyed patrons as you drag in two screaming kids. Therefore a buggy is much more preferable (in a restaraunt that has the space).

God I hope this phase passes quickly as it is making the act of going out even to the shops a pain.

Hellrazer

Enii wrote: »

However what about the parents who aren't actually interesting in socialising their kids and teaching them how to behave properly in restaurants.

Well in my opinion thats bad parenting.
However all parents shouldnt be tarred with the one brush ie having an outright ban on buggies or a restaurant not being child friendly--What about the ones who do teach the right from wrong.
If I ran a restaurant and if only one familys child was acting up--Id make it a point to have a word with that family and not label all parents the same.

What about the parents who think it is acceptable to let their children run around while they eat their own food.

Its not acceptable over here(and I wouldnt allow my kids to do it) but on the continent most people wouldnt even bat an eyelid.

Hellrazer

Ludo wrote: »

You can control them in that situation BUT it is highly likely to upset them as they will want to do their own thing once they are set down. The very act of one parent trying to control them will result in them getting upset as they don't get their own way. And getting them all upset just before going into a restaraunt is not a good idea as the end result is predictable...annoyed patrons as you drag in two screaming kids. Therefore a buggy is much more preferable (in a restaraunt that has the space).

Well said--even if the buggy is there just to strap them into to stop them running around mental and annoying other customers its a godsend.

BostonB

I think mine have a window of about 30~40 mins. Longer than that and they just get bored. So a good family resturant will have crayons, paper etc to keep them amused. And serve food quickly! Actually when travelling I've seen very good restaurants with activity areas so you can bring the off for 15 mins while waiting for food etc. Very rare here.

Bad parenting is a different subject. Entirely. No one should put up with that from someone else kids. But kids aren't angels. Don't confuse the two things.

tlev

candlelover wrote: »

I don't know if any of you in cork are listening to 96fm at the moment but they are talking about restaurants and pubs refusing buggies/prams due to health and safety, i tried googling it and i cant find anything on it, there are a few places in my locality which have been named as not allowing buggies and as a new mom i'm not sure what my rights are here.

anybody here have any clue what the regulations are? and has anyone here ever encountered this/ how did you handle it?

Good, no noisy kids in restaurants disturbing everyone else. I mean take your kids out once they are old enough to behave. Really its simple as that. You have made the choice of having kids so you must make alterations to your lifestyle, I don't see why just because you have always gone out to restaurants before you should do exactly the same thing after. You make sacrifices and adjustments, once your children are old enough to sit still for a while then it is okay. Like BostonB said, 30-40 min but babies and toddlers who start screaming should be kept at home. It is the same with parents travelling who decide to take their babies everywhere. Put off the holidays until they are at an age where they won't pierce the eardrums of everyone in the plane. I'm not saying strap the kids to the chair with choloform, I understand kids will be kids etc but there is a limit to what people can take with regards to bawling babies.

BostonB

Hellrazer wrote: »

Well said--even if the buggy is there just to strap them into to stop them running around mental and annoying other customers its a godsend.

Gains you another 10~15 mins maybe. Then its handy for a fast exist.

Reading this I'm wondering how we'll manage with a double buggy! (dang thing is only massive)

BostonB

tlev wrote: »

Good, no noisy kids in restaurants disturbing everyone else.

Not having a buggy will probably make it worse. Unrestrained kids hanging out of you.

Nevyn

It depends on the temperament of the child, how old they are and what manners they have been reared with, there is no one size fits all. Unfortunately the quiet well behaved children don't stick out in peoples minds as much as unruly children with lax inconsiderate parents.

tlev

BostonB wrote: »

Not having a buggy will probably make it worse. Unrestrained kids hanging out of you.

No kids at all then

Ludo

tlev wrote: »

No kids at all then

How about a ban on the general public at large being allowed into restaraunts? Most of them just annoy other people anyway who are trying to eat their meal in peace :rolleyes:

Enii

tlev wrote: »

Good, no noisy kids in restaurants disturbing everyone else. I mean take your kids out once they are old enough to behave. Really its simple as that. You have made the choice of having kids so you must make alterations to your lifestyle, I don't see why just because you have always gone out to restaurants before you should do exactly the same thing after. You make sacrifices and adjustments, once your children are old enough to sit still for a while then it is okay. Like BostonB said, 30-40 min but babies and toddlers who start screaming should be kept at home. It is the same with parents travelling who decide to take their babies everywhere. Put off the holidays until they are at an age where they won't pierce the eardrums of everyone in the plane. I'm not saying strap the kids to the chair with choloform, I understand kids will be kids etc but there is a limit to what people can take with regards to bawling babies.

I guess what you are saying is that parents who have children should limit their actions and their children's so that it does not impinge on the lifestyle of childless people?

Hellrazer

BostonB wrote: »

Gains you another 10~15 mins maybe. Then its handy for a fast exist.

Oooh but those 10-15 mins can make the diference of finishing your meal or not

Reading this I'm wondering how we'll manage with a double buggy! (dang thing is only massive)

Been there,done that.Great fun altogether!

Hellrazer

Enii wrote: »

I guess what you are saying is that parents who have children should limit their actions and their children's so that it does not impinge on the lifestyle of childless people?

Which is a load of crap imo.

Enii

Hellrazer wrote: »

Which is a load of crap imo.

Why?

Do you think parents have the right to park their buggy in a restaurant - blocking up aisles, making it difficult for servers to deliver food?

Nevyn

Just a note to say this forum is not the place to push a "child free" agenda.
Children are a fact of life and so is them being part of society and those who wish to try and live thier lives with out ever seeing or interaction wtih a child should consider moving to live on a desert island.

Ludo

Parents and children actually make up a very large percentage of the population. Why should they change limit their lifestyle to keep a minority happy? And it is actually a vocal minority in reality. Older people welcome seeing kids out and about in restaraunts generally. The only people who strongly object to their lifestyle being upset by children in public seem to be those generally in the late teens to thirty type age group or those who simply don't want kids of their own (which is perfectly fair enough) but we do live in a society of which children is an integral part. Deal with it.

Of course the demographic to which I am referring makes up a large percentage of boards.ie posters so the attitude is very prevalent here.

Lots of generalisations there I know...but to me this anti-child attitude is another of those nasty self-centred attitudes that have become prevalent in this country in the last 10/15 years.

Hellrazer

Enii wrote: »

Why?

Do you think parents have the right to park their buggy in a restaurant - blocking up aisles, making it difficult for servers to deliver food?

No I dont believe that its a right,however if a restaurant wants me to spend my money there then they need to be "child friendly"

We avoid places that dont allow buggies.

Its their loss.With 6 of us sometimes 7 since one of the grandmothers is usually with us the spend is usually substantial compared to a couple eating on their own.Maybe some of the restaurants should realise that before they go out of business.

Enii

Ludo wrote: »

Parents and children actually make up a very large percentage of the population. Why should they change limit their lifestyle to keep a minority happy? And it is actually a vocal minority in reality. Older people welcome seeing kids out and about in restaraunts generally. The only people who strongly object to their lifestyle being upset by children in public seem to be those generally in the late teens to thirty type age group generally or those who simply don't want kids of their own (which is perfectly fair enough) but we do live in a society of which children is an integral part. Deal with it.

Of course the demographic to which I am referring makes up a large percentage of boards.ie posters so the attitude is very prevalent here.

Lots of generalisations there I know...but to me this anti-child attitude is another of those nasty self-centred attitudes that have become prevalent in this country in the last 10/15 years.

Surely people shouldn't be considered "anti-child" when they get annoyed by their dinner being disturbed by a badly behaved child.

Is labelling people as being "anti-child" a way to explain why people don't accept bad parenting?

But all of the above is way off topic.......

tlev

Ludo wrote: »

Parents and children actually make up a very large percentage of the population. Why should they change limit their lifestyle to keep a minority happy? And it is actually a vocal minority in reality. Older people welcome seeing kids out and about in restaraunts generally. The only people who strongly object to their lifestyle being upset by children in public seem to be those generally in the late teens to thirty type age group or those who simply don't want kids of their own (which is perfectly fair enough) but we do live in a society of which children is an integral part. Deal with it.

Of course the demographic to which I am referring makes up a large percentage of boards.ie posters so the attitude is very prevalent here.

Lots of generalisations there I know...but to me this anti-child attitude is another of those nasty self-centred attitudes that have become prevalent in this country in the last 10/15 years.

Its become prevalent because 10/15 years ago it wasn't as common to take your kids to restaurants, this is a newer thing as people have become wealthier. No I'm not anti child, I just agree that other people shouldn't have to listen to babies screaming when they are trying to enjoy a meal or take a holiday. Its called respecting other people, and if anything that is what is lost today. People saying I want to do this so deal with it. And the reason they should change their lifestyle is exactly because they became parents. How can you expect to behave in exactly the same manner when you have kids?

Ludo

tlev wrote: »

Its become prevalent because 10/15 years ago it wasn't as common to take your kids to restaurants, this is a newer thing as people have become wealthier. No I'm not anti child, I just agree that other people shouldn't have to listen to babies screaming when they are trying to enjoy a meal or take a holiday. Its called respecting other people, and if anything that is what is lost today. People saying I want to do this so deal with it. And the reason they should change their lifestyle is exactly because they became parents. How can you expect to behave in exactly the same manner when you have kids?

I agree with you. But it is all about a fair balance. For example, my parents want us to bring our 20 month olds out for a meal tomorrow at 5pm as my brother and his kid are in town. No way would I go. They are just tired, hungry and cranky at that time of the day. It would not be fair on other customers and also I would not enjoy it as we wouldn't be able to relax. Instead we are getting a take-out and eating in our house.

What gets me is when we are out and a child shouts once (as they do every so often) or drops a bit of food (which you pick up immediately) or bangs on the table with a spoon (which you take off them then). You get looks like you are the most annoying person on the planet from some people and that you have no place disturbing them. I have seen this so often. Well in that situation, my attitude is tough.

Nevyn

With people going on holidays and seeing how children are welcomed into restruants in other countries they want the same thing here, what are termed family restruants, which fit in between the fine dining experience and fast food places, which is how things are in most of europe and certainly a lot better then how america does it.

Hellrazer

tlev wrote: »

Its become prevalent because 10/15 years ago it wasn't as common to take your kids to restaurants, this is a newer thing as people have become wealthier.

I dont agree with that--As long as I can remember I was taken to restaurants with my parents and they were`nt that wealthy.

No I'm not anti child,

Well every post you`ve made on this threads leads me to think different.

I just agree that other people shouldn't have to listen to babies screaming when they are trying to enjoy a meal or take a holiday.

Im just going to quote Thaedydal for that one

Children are a fact of life and so is them being part of society and those who wish to try and live thier lives with out ever seeing or interaction wtih a child should consider moving to live on a desert island.

Its called respecting other people, and if anything that is what is lost today.

Explain how bringing your child out for a meal is disrespecting anyone.Its a minority of parents that cant control their kids not all of them like you are making out.

And the reason they should change their lifestyle is exactly because they became parents. How can you expect to behave in exactly the same manner when you have kids?

Why should I change my lifestyle just because I have kids.I could as easily say to you---why dont you go to a restaurant that has a ban on kids so that you dont have to listen to them.
Thats the same thing^^^^


Most of the anti children drivel in this thread has come from people that dont even have kids.Maybe revisit this thread in a few years when you do and see if your opinions are still the same.I seriously doubt they will be.

tlev

No bringing your child out isn't disrespecting anyone if you can control them, if you are a good parent I have no beef with you.

So you do exactly the same things you did when you didn't have kids? You act in no way different? No adjustments to your behaviour? (I don't want to make assumptions about your lifestyle, I am just giving examples).
E.g. Spending less time entertaining yourself and more time with your kids, drinking less, swearing less, going to clubs less? Surely some of these things have happened and that is my point you do change your lifestyle when you have kids, its impossible not to. And those who don't are somewhat in denial because they want to have their cake and eat it too. Sorry off topic.

Fyi I do volunteer summer camps for kids aged 5-12 .

tlev

Ludo wrote: »

I agree with you. But it is all about a fair balance. For example, my parents want us to bring our 20 month olds out for a meal tomorrow at 5pm as my brother and his kid are in town. No way would I go. They are just tired, hungry and cranky at that time of the day. It would not be fair on other customers and also I would not enjoy it as we wouldn't be able to relax. Instead we are getting a take-out and eating in our house.

What gets me is when we are out and a child shouts once (as they do every so often) or drops a bit of food (which you pick up immediately) or bangs on the table with a spoon (which you take off them then). You get looks like you are the most annoying person on the planet from some people and that you have no place disturbing them. I have seen this so often. Well in that situation, my attitude is tough.

I agree with what you are saying.

upthedub

I was going into a shop in ballyfermot a few weeks ago and i was told to leave the baby outside "1 year old",couldnt believe it but they said because of insurance bull s*it

BostonB

Oh so true. LOL.

Hellrazer

So you do exactly the same things you did when you didn't have kids? You act in no way different? No adjustments to your behaviour? (I don't want to make assumptions about your lifestyle, I am just giving examples).
E.g. Spending less time entertaining yourself and more time with your kids, drinking less, swearing less, going to clubs less?

Surely some of these things have happened and that is my point you do change your lifestyle when you have kids, its impossible not to.

While a lot of the things you have listed above have changed purely because I either cant afford them anymore or am too tired to even attempt them

However the one thing that we`ve refused to change is our lunch in a restaurant.I dont see any reason to change it provided we are keeping the kids under control.

Fyi I do volunteer summer camps for kids aged 5-12 .

Fair play to you for volunteering with kids but at the end of your day you hand them over to the parents and youre free to do whatever you like with your time.Its a completely different story when you have them 24/7.

tlev

Hellrazer wrote: »

While a lot of the things you have listed above have changed purely because I either cant afford them anymore or am too tired to even attempt them

However the one thing that we`ve refused to change is our lunch in a restaurant.I dont see any reason to change it provided we are keeping the kids under control.



Fair play to you for volunteering with kids but at the end of your day you hand them over to the parents and youre free to do whatever you like with your time.Its a completely different story when you have them 24/7.

My girlfriend has two small nieces so I have a bit of experience , not comparing it to having a child fulltime but I can imagine lol. Okay fair enough. Like I said I don't mind reasonable people such as yourself . Haha, its just a few unreasonable ones that ruin it for the rest.