How long before you start sparring?

tallaght01

Might seem like a silly question.

But I do Krav Maga and I love it. But about 4 months ago I took up Wing Chun, as I wanted to add a traditional martial art into the mix. I only do it one day per week.

I really enjoy it, and it's supposed to be a decent fighting art. But I don't know of that's the case. In KM we don't spar for the first year. But we're doing techniques and drill etc.

Wing Chun, though, seems very traditional, and I'e spent the last few months just very slowly practicing our punches, palms etc. The school is very new, so the longest guys there are doing it about 6 months, and they do occasional VERY light sparring

I'm just wondering if this is the norm for the more traditional martial arts. To tell the truth, I'm getting a little bored. But I like the blokes I train with, and I have a laugh with the instructor. It's a new school and the numbers are small, so i don't wanna bail on him. He says he's very keen to instill the basics into us very well. I like that concept. But I am really getting bored.

Anyone know if this is normal? At what point in most styles do people start spar

cowzerp

From what im told there is little sparring in these types of arts at all, you have probably done well doing any at this stage..

Join Muay thai if you want sparring and realistic sparring at that..

tallaght01

KM sparring is pretty hard (though I accept a lot of cowboy KM clubs don't spar at all) and my instructor does talk about sparring in the future. I'm just wondering if that's 10 years in the future :P I know I should ask him. But he's a little Mr Myagi type bloke who answers every question with another question :P

Nothingcompares

Sparring in most functional martial arts begins at the very earliest stages. I sparred the first day I took a judo, bjj or boxing class. Sparring should always be controlled whether you're a absolute beginner, novice or expert. It's important to supervise beginners because they probably won't be capable of controlling themselves during sparring but after a few weeks it's all good.

Hephaestus

tallaght01 wrote: »

At what point in most styles do people start spar

I sparred/rolled in my very first class of BJJ & have done in every class since.

Even in classes where we're focusing on drilling techniques we always finish with a rolling session.

I think it was somebody on here who previously linked to this video where Matt Thorton (BJJ black belt) discusses aliveness which I think makes at whole world of sense

Niall Keane

Sparring in most functional martial arts begins at the very earliest stages.

+1

In my classes a beginner will start sparring after 1&1/2 hours. I always leave sparring to the end of class when people are tired and more likely to expose / discover their mistakes.

http://www.freewebs.com/sanshou/results.htm

seems to work?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Nothingcompares wrote: »

It's important to supervise beginners because they probably won't be capable of controlling themselves during sparring but after a few weeks it's all good.

I think 'the argumentitive one' :P hits it on the head here.

I think I'd be slow enough to start a complete school of absolute beginners sparring too.

I'm not sure how technical Wing Chun is so I wouldn't like to guess a time frame.

.

Hi tallaght01, i did Kamon Wing Chun for a couple of years and did no sparing, the reason i was given was that you are looking to be explosive and bury whoever is front of you, so there was a worry somebody would get hurt sparring, we did do a lot of pad work from the start and pairing off for practices drills, i would stick with it as i found it has a different tool set from other striking arts i have done, and having worked as a prison officer it gave me a lot of confidence for when thing got close and personal, not meaning to sound like Bruce Lee or a nob, but it's just very good for in close fighting, but i suppose the mistake was letting someone get close in the first place:), Gary.

yomchi

the reason i was given was that you are looking to be explosive and bury whoever is front of you, so there was a worry somebody would get hurt sparring

Translates into "we don't spar, because if we did, we'd be left wondering why the techniques don't work"

This type of approach is a cop out. Thats like training a football team but never playing a match, because one of the teams is going to lose.

Jon

Jon wrote: »

Translates into "we don't spar, because if we did, we'd be left wondering why the techniques don't work"

This type of approach is a cop out. Thats like training a football team but never playing a match, because one of the teams is going to lose.

There is a type of training that gets close to sparing called "sticking hands" but that was for the more advanced(not me), given a choice i would have preferred to spar as would most , but not sparring didn't stop me from seeing the effectiveness of what i was being taught, i enjoyed it and learned a lot, i worked in a environment where violence was common place and i was part of a control and restraint team, I'm not saying Wing Chun turned me in to a killing machine with super one punch power, but i did appreciate it's in close fighting techniques that i didn't get from karate and i am not saying it's better just different. Gary

Jason Mc

I've seen plenty of guys who look great on the pads but put an opponent in front of them and they crumble

You have to spar to be able to work your set ups and get your timing down and of course be able to do so while someone is trying to hit you back.

As said already you can spar from the beginning in a controlled manner

tallaght01

Thanks for that, guys. I didn't realise most people spar right from the start. Is that the same int he striking arts?

I need to have a word with me wing chun instructor tomorrow :P

cowzerp

tallaght01 wrote: »

Thanks for that, guys. I didn't realise most people spar right from the start. Is that the same int he striking arts?

I need to have a word with me wing chun instructor tomorrow :P

In wing chun its just not the done thing tbh from all acounts, its too dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!! like as if they could not just do muay thai or boxing sparring as the closest to what they do without killing anyone!

In boxing i sparred the 1st night but have seen others who would not spar for a couple of weeks, same in MMA for the striking element too.

its all about controlled supervision and just learning, its when its not supervised that its a problem with beginners.

tallaght01

If you never hear from me again in here, you'll know we started sparring in wing chun class and I didn't make it :P

Niall Keane

Thanks for that, guys. I didn't realise most people spar right from the start. Is that the same int he striking arts?

There is a format of competition and sparring that was set up to allow all kung fu styles to compete, its called sanshou, the sport is now up and running in Ireland, many different styles have already competed here, not just kung fu either.

Last time at the East Coast Open to my memory were:

Pankration Kickboxing Academy Limerick
Moy Valley Freestyle Karate Balina, Mayo
Yang's Martial Arts Association, Dublin
Li Ching Wu, Dublin
The Royal Combat Club (Wing Chun, I believe) Meath
Wudang Sanshou Dublin

sorry there were others, but I cannot presently recall the name of the clubs.:o

Check out www.sanshou.ie for details of Competitions and active Irish Fighters.

Regards,

Niall

Zen65

tallaght01 wrote: »

Thanks for that, guys. I didn't realise most people spar right from the start. Is that the same int he striking arts?

I need to have a word with me wing chun instructor tomorrow :P

I think it depends on the class mix. In most karate schools that I've had experience of it is normal to do some form of sparring training exercises provided that there are senior grades present. Typically an instructor will pair a beginner with a senior grade and let them spar with restrictions (limited range of techniques, limited number of attacks, "light" sparring only, etc) so that the beginner can learn to defend themselves without fear (a senior grade should be able to spar without causing injury), and can practise attacks against the senior grades who should be able to defend themselves. However if your club is only starting there my be a lack of senior grades to let this happen?

There are many ways of building up to sparring which can be enjoyable and yet stay safe. A club instructor starting out will not want injuries to his students as that can mess with his insurance and force him to close up.

Cheers,


Zen65

Don't shoot the messenger, this is a bit i found to explain the lack of sparing in Wing Chun:

"There is no sparring in Wing Chun, instead we practice 'one attack-one defend' training. One of the main reasons for this is that there is no safe way of sparring!
Wing Chun relies on precise hand positions, and so boxing gloves and body protection would hinder this, it is also very close-in and fast. In a fighting situation, you step into your opponent quickly, and throw lightning punches.
-"There's no way to do this safely".
- the pursuit of sparring for trophies, whilst may assist in celebrating the mastery of a few techniques, has little to do with either combat or Chinese martial arts. If tournament sparring assisted in mastery of combat every special forces unit in the world would do it as a facet of training. To date, no elite unit in the world uses those parameters as useful measures"

I understand the benefits of sparring as there is nothing as honest as a punch on the nose, but if you want to spar tallaght01 Wing Chun may not be for you, Gary.

corkma

I let beginners spar but keep a close eye on them. sometimes two beginners sparring each other can be dangerous. maybe there are just too many inexperienced people in the club. if its a new club maybe the instructor isn't used to handling beginners