DART+ (DART Expansion)

Idbatterim

They can stuff their finance excuse too. Tax receipts far ahead of forecast... cantvwaitvfir mid term review. I'll laugh if figures and forecast are higher than envisioned when original schemes were proposed and designed. No doubt the original figures and schemes will still have been over engineered :rolleyes:

Grandeeod

murphaph wrote: »

Correct and this spiting of Dublin may really cost us if London based banks decide to avoid Dublin because of its very poor transport links in a post Brexit world. The jobs may stay in London depending on what happens but Dublin will be hard pressed to beat the likes of Amsterdam if a hard Brexit does come to pass.

I'm quite confident that our "low tax" approach will eventually run out of steam and we will be left so far behind in terms of infrastructure, that it will matter at some point.

Grandeeod

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'm quite confident that our "low tax" approach will eventually run out of steam and we will be left so far behind in terms of infrastructure, that it will matter at some point.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that the crap transport links haven't put off MNC's who care about the welfare of their staff! But in reality they really don't give a shít as long as the money keeps rolling in!

FACECUTTR

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

syklops

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

Building a Luas extension from Brides Glen to Bray or even to Killiney would finally link the green line and the Dart. But that definitely wont happen anytime soon. The Luas is too slow anyway. Its fine for short hops, but Im not really sure why we consider extending it when the Dart is so much faster. Probably because its a cheap solution rather than a good one.

Can anyone tell me why there are no feeder buses between the Luas and Dart? Or if there is, can anyone point me in their direction? There is one from Shankhill to Cherrywood in the morning but its one way, and in the opposite direction in the evening. A couple of feeder buses from not every, but a couple of Luas stops to the nearest Dart station would be a cheap solution which would improve things a bit - assuming the timetables are decipherable and the buses reliable and frequent.

DU is definitely a must and a rail link to the airport also a must. As the NY times article points out, Dublin is highly desirable as "the New London", but our masters seem oblivious to it.

Zebra3

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

As opposed to building MN?

markpb

syklops wrote:

The Luas is too slow anyway. Its fine for short hops, but Im not really sure why we consider extending it when the Dart is so much faster. Probably because its a cheap solution rather than a good one.

Have a look at the actual travel times for green luas and dart and see how they stack up. DMUs may be fast but DART is not.

syklops

markpb wrote: »

Have a look at the actual travel times for green luas and dart and see how they stack up. DMUs may be fast but DART is not.

I'd be interested in seeing a link if you have one. Anytime Ive used the Dart in the past couple of years I seemed to cover a greater distance quicker than the Luas which I use almost daily. I know thats anecdotal, but thats been my perception. I'd love to see some numbers.

cgcsb

Another problem is there is nowhere to put them, the Central Dublin office market is running at about 7% vacancy and most of that vacancy is scrappy little floorplates spread across multiple old buildings. Dublin's height restrictions mean that we can't build much office space.

syklops

cgcsb wrote: »

Dublin's height restrictions mean that we can't build much office space.

It would make you want to cry wouldnt it? That is the core issue. The docklands could house 25000 people, and be the workplace for 25000 people. Provide better transport links and it would take the pressure off substantially. We dont even need a Chrysler building size building, just a few more floors. The average Dubliner wouldnt even notice the difference.

Its depressing.

marno21

syklops wrote: »

It would make you want to cry wouldnt it? That is the core issue. The docklands could house 25000 people, and be the workplace for 25000 people. Provide better transport links and it would take the pressure off substantially. We dont even need a Chrysler building size building, just a few more floors. The average Dubliner wouldnt even notice the difference.

Its depressing.

The average Dubliner would notice the difference in that there would be a major improvement in quality of life around the city and there may be less congestion in the mornings & evenings.

Hotblack Desiato

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Building a LUAS extension from Citywest to Baldonnel and utilising a perfectly adequate 2 runway airport would make sense to me. Lots of military airports share with civilian airports. Direct link to the financial district in Dublin.

Two airports serving a city the size of Dublin is crazy. Dublin airport has already purchased the land to build its second (third, really) runway, has room for T3 between the runways and probably has enough land already owned by DAA for a fourth terminal. T3 and/or T4 could be operated in competition with DAA if that bothers you.

It's really not in the interest of passengers to say, land at Baldonnel on a flight from Britain then have to go across the city to DUB to make a transatlantic connection. Baldonnel has problems with proximity to the Dublin/Wicklow mountains and if it wasn't so little used it would interfere with DUB flight paths.

Idbatterim

the bull**** we hear trotted out is that MN and DU were planned with higher growth figures etc! Where can I find what these figures were? I would love to compare them to current figures that we have or revised ones which may be available shortly...

Its easy for the politicians to lie etc, but the planners will simply give their best predictions I would imagine, you wouldn't see a real interest in them lying...

busiest day ever in Dublin airport ever on Friday 24th June...

https://www.dublinairport.com/latest-news/detail/dublin-airport-welcomes-100-000-passengers-in-a-single-day

riadach

Idbatterim wrote: »

the bull**** we hear trotted out is that MN and DU were planned with higher growth figures etc! Where can I find what these figures were? I would love to compare them to current figures that we have or revised ones which may be available shortly...

Its easy for the politicians to lie etc, but the planners will simply give their best predictions I would imagine, you wouldn't see a real interest in them lying...

busiest day ever in Dublin airport ever on Friday 24th June...

Well given the supposed lifetime of such a project, the setback in the economic hardly warranted cancellation.

If anything, now is the perfect time to get both projects off the ground.

Brian CivilEng

Idbatterim wrote: »

the bull**** we hear trotted out is that MN and DU were planned with higher growth figures etc! Where can I find what these figures were? I would love to compare them to current figures that we have or revised ones which may be available shortly...

I've seen some of the forecasts, can't share because they were work related, but we are really only 2-3 years behind the forecast. Metro North was expected to open before the annual passengers in the airport reached a number that will be surpassed in 2017 for example.

marno21

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

Grandeeod

marno21 wrote: »

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

No its not funny. Its simply a blatant example of how politicians spoof and fudge when it comes to public transport. They are never called out on it anymore.

Idbatterim

My email sent to Alan kelly FG td on 29th June. The reply, totally ignoring two of my key questions. In fairness to him , he has given a decent enough and quick reply when I have previously emailed him.


Dear Alan,

I was made aware of the discussion on metro north in the Dail yesterday. I along with many others have reservations about the new scheme, in terms of sending this project back to the drawing board, but that line has been drawn under the sand it appears. So I would just ask for your opinion on mine and others largest concern? Platforms being shortened from 90m to 60m to save "€100,000,000" out of a €2,000,000,000 i.e. 5%, and you lose 33% capacity. Out of the extra €100,000,000 spend, I am sure a large amount goes directly or indirectly back to government coffers. What is the cost of extending underground stations? major, major money I am assuming and I also assume the logistics are a nightmare. Whatever about ordering less rolling stock etc, that can be easily rectified...

It strikes to me, as being the single most short sighted measure I have ever heard proposed in this country and that is some statement!

Just two other brief questions I have, has any thought been given to automate the line? Given that it wont be in operation until at least 2026 and our recent experience with the Luas strikes? With the amount of very early morning flights and transatlantic departures, where it is recommended you arrive 3 hours early. The current start times of the luas for example i.e 5:30am Mon - Fri, 6:30am Sat and 7am Sunday, arent much use...

Also with the proposed metro south, would it now make sense to tunnel out as far as ranelagh with this revised metro north scheme? Surely you wouldnt start another section of 1km or so tunnel out to ranelagh as another project?

Yours faithfully,



Reply

Dear X,

Thank you for your email.

The previous Government froze the Metro North project due to financial constraints and could not proceed with the previous incarnation due to its rising costs.

The revised project has my full support and adequately links into Dublin's existing transport network, services Dublin Airport and Swords, an emerging city growing at a rate faster than any other area in Ireland over the past decade.

The first priority for me has been the delivery date, the second being the cost to the tax payer. I am satisfied that the project, in its current form, can be delivered within the time frame alluded to the in the 2015 Capital Plan. Furthermore, I am satisfied that in the future, Transport Infrastructure Ireland will be in the position to enlarge capacity along the line, as required.

The questions of linkages to other parts of the city do not fall within my jurisdiction and I believe they are adequately supported by other transport services, LUAS etc, although I am an avid supporter of DART Underground which appears to have put back in the table by Minister Ross.

I would appreciate your address for my records.

Sam Russell

marno21 wrote: »

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

Not just a motorway from Gort to Tuam but €600 million on a bypass for Galway.

Higher numbers of passengers - (25 million per year) got the then Minister of Transport to claim that this would mean more car parks at the airport - not MN or the Clongriffin spur.

Idbatterim

Also note from yesterday's news, that the fingal area is quickest growing in terms of population! It's one of the few areas in county Dublin with large amounts of land left. Build a high capacity system and you can build a lot more housing etc...

I can't see them going for the original now, even if projections were higher than boomtime. They wouldn't do it to save face. At this stage I'd be happy with 90m platforms and linking MNR to green line at ranelagh as part of the scheme. Surely this has to be on the cards now?! You hardly get a Tbm in to do a 1km or so tunnel as a stand alone project?!

Line should be automated too... Watch how much more people steer clear of it in the street if they know there isn't a set of real eyes in the cabin!

Also why not purchase land and build a massive park and ride north of airport and also have it for airport parking. A tram arriving every few mins is a hell of a lot better than the frequency of buses from the remote car parks at Dublin airport...

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

Funny how city based public transport is being slimmed down to cater for lower passenger numbers yet there's a motorway (capacity of 55,000 a day) being built from Galway to Tuam and a motorway standard road being built bypassing New Ross between a city of 90,000 people and a town of 19,000

Dublin's poopulation has already exceeded estimates based on the 2006 and 2011 censuses so if anything planned public transport projects should have their design capacities revised upwards.

thomasj

Idbatterim wrote:

Also note from yesterday's news, that the fingal area is quickest growing in terms of population! It's one of the few areas in county Dublin with large amounts of land left. Build a high capacity system and you can build a lot more housing etc...

Fingal is a massive area. Bear in mind the largest electoral division population increase is blanchardstown-blakestown which is based in fingal.

annfield1978

Arup appointed by NTA to undertaken Tunnel/ Station Configuration Study for DART Underground/ Metro North

Grandeeod

annfield1978 wrote: »

Arup appointed by NTA to undertaken Tunnel/ Station Configuration Study for DART Underground/ Metro North

More money wasted as the can is kicked down the road...again.:rolleyes:

Grandeeod

Idbatterim wrote: »

My email sent to Alan kelly FG td on 29th June. The reply, totally ignoring two of my key questions. In fairness to him , he has given a decent enough and quick reply when I have previously emailed him.


Dear Alan,

I was made aware of the discussion on metro north in the Dail yesterday. I along with many others have reservations about the new scheme, in terms of sending this project back to the drawing board, but that line has been drawn under the sand it appears. So I would just ask for your opinion on mine and others largest concern? Platforms being shortened from 90m to 60m to save "€100,000,000" out of a €2,000,000,000 i.e. 5%, and you lose 33% capacity. Out of the extra €100,000,000 spend, I am sure a large amount goes directly or indirectly back to government coffers. What is the cost of extending underground stations? major, major money I am assuming and I also assume the logistics are a nightmare. Whatever about ordering less rolling stock etc, that can be easily rectified...

It strikes to me, as being the single most short sighted measure I have ever heard proposed in this country and that is some statement!

Just two other brief questions I have, has any thought been given to automate the line? Given that it wont be in operation until at least 2026 and our recent experience with the Luas strikes? With the amount of very early morning flights and transatlantic departures, where it is recommended you arrive 3 hours early. The current start times of the luas for example i.e 5:30am Mon - Fri, 6:30am Sat and 7am Sunday, arent much use...

Also with the proposed metro south, would it now make sense to tunnel out as far as ranelagh with this revised metro north scheme? Surely you wouldnt start another section of 1km or so tunnel out to ranelagh as another project?

Yours faithfully,



Reply

Dear X,

Thank you for your email.

The previous Government froze the Metro North project due to financial constraints and could not proceed with the previous incarnation due to its rising costs.

The revised project has my full support and adequately links into Dublin's existing transport network, services Dublin Airport and Swords, an emerging city growing at a rate faster than any other area in Ireland over the past decade.

The first priority for me has been the delivery date, the second being the cost to the tax payer. I am satisfied that the project, in its current form, can be delivered within the time frame alluded to the in the 2015 Capital Plan. Furthermore, I am satisfied that in the future, Transport Infrastructure Ireland will be in the position to enlarge capacity along the line, as required.

The questions of linkages to other parts of the city do not fall within my jurisdiction and I believe they are adequately supported by other transport services, LUAS etc, although I am an avid supporter of DART Underground which appears to have put back in the table by Minister Ross.

I would appreciate your address for my records.

Seriously and with respect. Don't waste your time. If you really want to publicise the complete failure of the Irish political hierarchy in relation to rail transport, organise yourself and a few others, educate yourselves and then educate the media. And don't bother with Rail Users Ireland. They're about as much use as a fart in a breeze.

Seriously, if you really feel strong about it and I can sense it from your posts, get organised and hit the media.

Avada

If you really want to highlight it, talk to TDs in opposition and ask them to submit detailed parliamentary questions.

Grandeeod

Avada wrote: »

If you really want to highlight it, talk to TDs in opposition and ask them to submit detailed parliamentary questions.

Sorry, but thats another waste of time. The answers are often similar to what you get in writing. If I had the time I could cite tonnes of examples that came to absolutely nothing. If you want results you go for the jugular via the media and that's not being done anymore.

Avada

Grandeeod wrote: »

Sorry, but thats another waste of time. The answers are often similar to what you get in writing. If I had the time I could cite tonnes of examples that came to absolutely nothing. If you want results you go for the jugular via the media and that's not being done anymore.

They are similar, but they're a matter of public record.

Is it time to get a lobbying group together to convince our politicians to build some ****ing infrastructure before it's too late?

There are so many reasons to start now. So many!

Grandeeod

Avada wrote: »

They are similar, but they're a matter of public record.

A public record that is decided in advance and frequently vague and irrelevant.

We have these public records dating back many many years, but in particular realting to Luas, Metro and DU. Means nothing unless its delivered to the media by non politically affiliated people. Bottom line..call out all politicians in relation to the shambles and it is a shambles.