DART+ (DART Expansion)

Sam Russell

roadmaster wrote: »

Will the actually put up electric cables to maynooth or is this where the bimode trains come in ?

I believe the plan is to O/H wire as far as Maynooth and Drogheda.

Bimode trains might be a temporary measure.

gooddarts10

roadmaster wrote: »

Will the actually put up electric cables to maynooth or is this where the bimode trains come in ?

Yes overhead

Dats me

Sam Russell wrote: »

I believe the plan is to O/H wire as far as Maynooth and Drogheda.

Bimode trains might be a temporary measure.

Bi-mode temporary but also to reach non-electrified areas - so like Sallins or Newbridge with less frequency than the full Hazelhatch DART line for example

Grandeeod

MJohnston wrote: »

I guess it wasn't clear to you that I was entirely joking about sueing, but fine!

If you continually submit an idea to public consultations, it would be completely idiotic to believe you retain any ownership over that idea.

You guessed wrong. I knew you were joking about sueing, but I was merely following up on your joke to highlight how "some" ideas" delivered across a desk, to private consultants and directly to politicians in Dail Eireann under a previous administration is very different to saying your piece in some hotel function room to a person who takes notes and doesn't really care what you are saying at that point in time or online. Some people with an avid interest in PT in Dublin are sick and tired of doing the job that others are paid well to do.

We'll agree to differ because as you said yourself, you haven't read in detail any of the original DU stuff.

Sam Russell

Mod: It is beyond a joke at this stage. Can ye stop slagging each other.

Back on topic please.

marno21

The tender a few weeks back was for electrification of the 40km combination of city centre-Maynooth & the spur to M3 Parkway.

The bi mode trains will be useful as they can be deployed on the planned DART lines before full electrification occurs. It seems as though the Maynooth electrification has skipped the Balbriggan electrification in the queue which is no harm at all.

marno21

By the way for reference, the total lengths of the sections are as follows:

* 40km Maynooth/M3 Parkway-Connolly/Docklands incl. connecting to Phoenix Park Tunnel
* 20km Hazelhatch-Phoenix Park Tunnel/Heuston (this will also include quad tracking of Parkwest-Heuston)
* 37km Malahide-Drogheda

Ireland trains

Id say the new dart fleet will have toilets because if a dart is going from drogheda tp greystones thats a 2 hour journey

LeinsterDub

Ireland trains wrote: »

Id say the new dart fleet will have toilets because if a dart is going from drogheda tp greystones thats a 2 hour journey

Very few people will do that journey. If you need to go you can use the toilets at the station and get the next train. Journeys on the tube can be over 2 hours and they don't have toilets

loyatemu

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Very few people will do that journey. If you need to go you can use the toilets at the station and get the next train. Journeys on the tube can be over 2 hours and they don't have toilets

what toilet at the station?

LeinsterDub

loyatemu wrote: »

what toilet at the station?

They'll have to be provided

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

By the way for reference, the total lengths of the sections are as follows:

* 40km Maynooth/M3 Parkway-Connolly/Docklands incl. connecting to Phoenix Park Tunnel
* 20km Hazelhatch-Phoenix Park Tunnel/Heuston (this will also include quad tracking of Parkwest-Heuston)
* 37km Malahide-Drogheda

When you look at it like that, 100km of electrification is quite a big job.

marno21

cgcsb wrote: »

When you look at it like that, 100km of electrification is quite a big job.

Indeed. The current electrified network is ~50km so it's effectively trebling the length of electrified line.

Sam Russell

marno21 wrote: »

By the way for reference, the total lengths of the sections are as follows:

* 40km Maynooth/M3 Parkway-Connolly/Docklands incl. connecting to Phoenix Park Tunnel
* 20km Hazelhatch-Phoenix Park Tunnel/Heuston (this will also include quad tracking of Parkwest-Heuston)
* 37km Malahide-Drogheda

Is that 100 km of two track wire? I assume it is. What is the likly cost?

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

Is that 100 km of two track wire? I assume it is. What is the likly cost?

It's unclear yet whether they will just electrify two tracks between Heuston and Parkwest or all 4 as part of a wider electrification strategy but we'll say 2 tracks for the moment, so yes 100km of two track wire + whatever approaches to Heuston and from Glasnevin Junction in need to be done.

I saw electrification costed at approx. €500k per km previously. Open to correction on that.

cgcsb

marno21 wrote: »

It's unclear yet whether they will just electrify two tracks between Heuston and Parkwest or all 4 as part of a wider electrification strategy but we'll say 2 tracks for the moment, so yes 100km of two track wire + whatever approaches to Heuston and from Glasnevin Junction in need to be done.

I saw electrification costed at approx. €500k per km previously. Open to correction on that.

That seems good value no? That'd be all of Dublin-cork for €150mil? Would have assumed such a project would run into billions

That would make dart expansion for cheap. Only €50m for the electrification. 3 new stations, closing some level crossings, adding a new track between parkwest and Heuston and buying new rolling stock are the other major costs.

medoc

Does it include electrification of the Phoenix Park Tunnel?

LeinsterDub

medoc wrote: »

Does it include electrification of the Phoenix Park Tunnel?

I heard somewhere it too low to electrify part of the reason they need hybrids.

highdef

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I heard somewhere it too low to electrify part of the reason they need hybrids.

Interesting.... Can you provide sources for this information, please?

Qrt

LeinsterDub wrote: »

They'll have to be provided

Pearse has ticket-side toilets afaik

Rulmeq

marno21 wrote: »

* 20km Hazelhatch-Phoenix Park Tunnel/Heuston (this will also include quad tracking of Parkwest-Heuston)

That's the second time I've seen you post this, do you konw if they have published the plans for the quad-tracking the few km that's left? I'd love to know what their plans for the pinch points are.

ciaran75

marno21 wrote: »

* 40km Maynooth/M3 Parkway-Connolly/Docklands incl. connecting to Phoenix Park Tunnel

Has it been decided the frequency of trains going to docklands vs Connolly on maynooth line, will any continue till Pearse?

If majority go to docklands where do you interchange to get to Pearse? Would say will be glasnevin eventually but if maynooth line complete before metro, kildare lines what happens then

medoc

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I heard somewhere it too low to electrify part of the reason they need hybrids.

That’s a pity if true. Could the track be lowered maybe?

cgcsb

Rulmeq wrote: »

That's the second time I've seen you post this, do you konw if they have published the plans for the quad-tracking the few km that's left? I'd love to know what their plans for the pinch points are.

It'll mean closing of some lanes of the N4, CPO of some back gardens in Ballyer and a few bridges demolished and reconstructed. No doubt it will be disruptive, hence why it's been left until now.

I think there's a change of tack coming in how these projects are done. Between BusConnects, Metrolink and DART expansion more less everyone in the city will see some disruption, a sort of even spread if you will. This removes the whole, 'what about my estate Joe' mentality because pretty much everyone is giving up something, the only people who seem to have a major issue with it are the socialists of Terenure/Ranelagh.

LeinsterDub

highdef wrote: »

Interesting.... Can you provide sources for this information, please?

I can't seem to find it . So take it with a pinch of salt.

highdef

cgcsb wrote: »

It'll mean closing of some lanes of the N4

Permanent or temporary? N4/Chapelizod Bypass is already above capacity a lot of the time and there are thousands of houses being built along the M4 corridor so it's not going to get any better.

cgcsb

highdef wrote: »

Permanent or temporary? N4/Chapelizod Bypass is already above capacity a lot of the time and there are thousands of houses being built along the M4 corridor so it's not going to get any better.

Temporarily

Ireland trains

I think they should just quad track to kildare while there at it.
The quad track park west to heuston was included in the design tender

Sam Russell

Ireland trains wrote: »

I think they should just quad track to kildare while there at it.
The quad track park west to heuston was included in the design tender

That woul be 30 km or so. What would that cost? I suppose, putting up O/H cable would be a must.

bk

SeanW wrote: »

1) They'd divide each trainset in half - a passenger could not walk from one half of the trainset to the other because the diesel generator car would be inaccessible to passengers. So for an 8 car train, instead of being divided by 2, 4 cars like the 29000s or some of the newer DARTs (or even the 3/4 car ICRs), a FLIRT train would be divided by 4.

Those Stadler FLIRT trains actually have a corridor going through the middle of the "powerpack" section that allows passengers pass from one side to the other.

These sections actually contain four relatively small (for a train) Diesel engines, two on each side of the corridor. Nice design and would allow for redundancy (e.g. one engine fails, the train can still continue).

https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/5519/first-view-of-swiss-built-bi-mode-units-for-greater-anglia/

Check out this pic:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcQq8KlX0AAmtEf.jpg

And here is a diagram of a regular 4 carriage layout. See the pass through section in the middle:



You do have a point about the length. An 8 carriage train would require two "powerpack" sections as they call them, looks like they would take up about the space of 2/3rds of one carriage.

One option if the platforms aren't long enough to handle that, is to start of with 7 carriages + 2 "powerpacks" and once they go all electric and they remove the two powerpack sections, they can add in an 8th carriage.

cgcsb wrote: »

That seems good value no? That'd be all of Dublin-cork for €150mil? Would have assumed such a project would run into billions

High speed rail to Cork would require billions, just electrification a lot less. But then if you aren't doing HSR, there isn't much point to electrifying a service like Cork to Dublin.

Electrification is most useful for HSR or for services that stop frequently like DART. The service to Cork would gain very little from just electrification.

Great to hear that there is finally some progress on DART electrification.