DART+ (DART Expansion)

LeinsterDub

is_that_so wrote: »

Don't know about the DART but here's a piece on the hybrids.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-rail-planning-to-convert-inter-city-rail-fleet-to-hybrid-1.3653378

These are different hybrids (I think) these are Diesel-Electric-Battery

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/new-train-tenders
The ones I was referring to are to be Electric-Battery and aren't running any where in the world as far as I know

devnull

is_that_so wrote: »

Well they are set to be under trial at the end of this year so not non-existent. They already run in Germany. 2021 seems to be the planned launch date, all going well.

The NTA by the end of the quarter are now scheduled to complete a full fleet assessment in order to develop a fleet strategy going forward in addition to the tender for future units.

Latest timeframes on the tender is that they expect to award the framework contract for the bi-mode and electric fleet by mid 2020 with the first deliveries to take place by the end of 2023.

Rrailway orders for the lines to Maynooth, Celbridge and Drogehda will be put in by the end of 2021 with electrification work scheduled to begin in January 2023 and completed by the end of 2027.

The information is above is what the NTA have outlined as part of the announcements relating to Ireland's commitments to tackling climate change in the country yesterday.

LeinsterDub

devnull wrote: »

The NTA by the end of the quarter are now scheduled to complete a full fleet assessment in order to develop a fleet strategy going forward in addition to the tender for future units.

Latest timeframes on the tender is that they expect to award the framework contract for the bi-mode and electric fleet by mid 2020 with the first deliveries to take place by the end of 2023.

Rrailway orders for the lines to Maynooth, Celbridge and Drogehda will be put in by the end of 2021 with electrification work scheduled to begin in January 2023 and completed by the end of 2027.

The information is above is what the NTA have outlined as part of the announcements relating to Ireland's commitments to tackling climate change in the country yesterday.

A decade for the electrification of a few railways. Yup we are making the hard climate decisions !

L1011

DoctorPan wrote: »

No, the hybrids were to allow electric running to the endpoints prior to the construction of wires going up due to the long lead times in allocation in funding for purchasing new trains and the long lead times between order and operation of new rail vehicles.

While battery running to Longford/Newbridge/Dundalk might be explored in latter years, they were not the reasoning behind it.

From everything I've seen released so far this is just supposition.

The lead time on wiring isn't that vastly different to vehicles. There isn't realistically anything to be saved by patchwork wiring either.

DoctorPan

L1011 wrote: »

From everything I've seen released so far this is just supposition.

The lead time on wiring isn't that vastly different to vehicles. There isn't realistically anything to be saved by patchwork wiring either.

I'm just going by what Peter Smyth has been saying in talks given to Engineers Ireland, TII and IRRS.

Infrastructure and rolling stock tenders are not syched up. The BEMUs have gone out to tender while the infrastructure is still in the design tender phase. IE needs the new stock now and can't wait until OHLE construction has begun to place the order..

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

The NTA by the end of the quarter are now scheduled to complete a full fleet assessment in order to develop a fleet strategy going forward in addition to the tender for future units.

Latest timeframes on the tender is that they expect to award the framework contract for the bi-mode and electric fleet by mid 2020 with the first deliveries to take place by the end of 2023.

I thought all the trains were going to be bi-mode or are some solely electric. I'd imagine they'd take delivery of replacements of current DART sets before they start replacing diesel 29000 commuter sets.

With electrification now not due to be completed by 2027. Would battery powered trains have the capability to run a full journey on the Maynooth, Nothern or Hazelhatch lines if they can't that would likely mean that they may only be able to work on current DART lines and not non electrified lines in the short run.

diarfinn

Does this mean that the level crossings can be progressed while they wait for the Railway order or are they staying until 2023 as well?

DoctorPan

Stephen15 wrote: »

With electrification now not due to be completed by 2027. Would battery powered trains have the capability to run a full journey on the Maynooth, Nothern or Hazelhatch lines if they can't that would likely mean that they may only be able to work on current DART lines and not non electrified lines in the short run.

That was always the CME's view of the timelines from the NTA based on how long it takes them to get shovels in the ground. The battery stock are meant to be able to reach Maynooth, Drogheda and Hazlehatch on battery power until the OHLE reaches those locations.

cgcsb

devnull wrote: »

TRrailway orders for the lines to Maynooth, Celbridge and Drogehda will be put in by the end of 2021 with electrification work scheduled to begin in January 2023 and completed by the end of 2027.

An abysmal time line, How will they find contractors that will work this slowly? Are they importing them from France or something? Electrification of lines at half the pace that we achieved in 1981 is a tall order, perhaps half days and no weekend works?

cgcsb

diarfinn wrote: »

Does this mean that the level crossings can be progressed while they wait for the Railway order or are they staying until 2023 as well?

There'll be 6 rounds of public consultation, planning, an appeals period, then you'll die of old age so it wont matter.

SeanW

Unbe$%@&inglieveable. 3 1/2 years of bolloxing around with bureaucracy before we begin string up some power lines along some railway tracks :mad: So they might manage to extend the DART to Maynooth by 2027, and maybe some time in the decade after that, they might start bolloxing around with bureaucracy for the DART Underground so that we might - maybe see that finished before 2050. If we're lucky.

In the meantime, the rest of us keep suffering with a set of heavy railways only marginally better (and in some ways worse) than what we had in the 19th century.

MayoSalmon

SeanW wrote:

Unbe$%@&inglieveable. 3 1/2 years of bolloxing around with bureaucracy before we begin string up some power lines along some railway tracks So they might manage to extend the DART to Maynooth by 2027, and maybe some time in the decade after that, they might start bolloxing around with bureaucracy for the DART Underground so that we might - maybe see that finished before 2050. If we're lucky.

SeanW wrote:

In the meantime, the rest of us keep suffering with a set of heavy railways only marginally better (and in some ways worse) than what we had in the 19th century.

And all the while living in one of the most expensive countries in Europe...aren't we lucky.

marno21

A pleasant surprise..

Tender issued for multi disciplinary consulants for the Kildare line DART Expansion

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/215085

Project includes:

* 20km of electrification and resignalling of the Kildare line from Hazelhatch to Heuston, and through the Phoenix Park Tunnel to the western side of Glasnevin Junction
* Quad tracking from Parkwest into Heuston Station
* Structural works associated with 4 tracking at South Circular Road, Memorial Road, Sarsfield Road, Kylemore Road and Le Fanu Road bridges
* New station at Kylemore
* Realignment works to segregate DART + Intercity
* Any required upgrades for the Phoenix Park Tunnel
* "Passive protection" for future development of DART Underground

donvito99

marno21 wrote: »

A pleasant surprise..

Tender issued for multi disciplinary consulants for the Kildare line DART Expansion

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/215085

Project includes:

* 20km of electrification and resignalling of the Kildare line from Hazelhatch to Heuston, and through the Phoenix Park Tunnel to the western side of Glasnevin Junction
* Quad tracking from Parkwest into Heuston Station
* Structural works associated with 4 tracking at South Circular Road, Memorial Road, Sarsfield Road, Kylemore Road and Le Fanu Road bridges
* New station at Kylemore
* Realignment works to segregate DART + Intercity
* Any required upgrades for the Phoenix Park Tunnel
* "Passive protection" for future development of DART Underground

Residents complaining about a Kylemore station development in 3, 2, 1...

marno21

DART Expansion presentation from Engineers Ireland

https://www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/groups/societies/roads-tranport/RoadsTransportationSociety(20190522)-Issued.pdf?ext=.pdf

L1011

No Cabra station?

Zebra3

Still don’t get the expansion to Drogheda.

L1011

Zebra3 wrote: »

Still don’t get the expansion to Drogheda.

That'll be another stage

strassenwo!f

And they still seem to be pushing a route via St. Stephen's Green for the eventual DART Underground project.

Haven't they yet got that the LUAS has been extended through the city? There's no need now to build a longer route via that location to meet up with the LUAS - with a 22-acre park with no commuters on one side of the proposed station.

College Green, which the city is hoping to pedestrianise, is the obvious location for a city centre station on the DART Underground route, with people readily piling in from all sides.

roadmaster

Anyone interested in working on this project I believe IR are launching a big recruitment drive tomorrow looking for design engineers to resident Engineers

Qrt

strassenwo!f wrote: »

College Green, which the city is hoping to pedestrianise, is the obvious location for a city centre station on the DART Underground route, with people readily piling in from all sides.

True, but then there will be complaints about a station at Tara Street, "it's too close" "waste of money" etc etc. There'd most definitely need to be a station at Tara.

Dats me

I was thinking that a Docklands - Tara Street - Christchurch - Heuston alignment could be short and integrate with the Metro and other DART line at Tara as well as being a 3 minute walk to the Trinity Luas station, it would make Tara unbelievably busy, but only the same as the proposed St. Stephen's Green was to be in old proposals

Colonel Claptrap

What will the Howth Jct. and Clongriffin redesign look like? The presentation mentions completing the passing loop at Clongriffin.

gooddarts10

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

What will the Howth Jct. and Clongriffin redesign look like? The presentation mentions completing the passing loop at Clongriffin.

Putting in a loop on the up Side line to mirror the one on the down side

gooddarts10

gooddarts10 wrote: »

Putting in a loop on the up Side line to mirror the one on the down side

To facilitate passing in both directions

bk

Dats me wrote: »

I was thinking that a Docklands - Tara Street - Christchurch - Heuston alignment could be short and integrate with the Metro and other DART line at Tara as well as being a 3 minute walk to the Trinity Luas station, it would make Tara unbelievably busy, but only the same as the proposed St. Stephen's Green was to be in old proposals

It is definitely a very attractive idea, but I wonder if the curve from Docklands to Tara St area would be too tight.

Sam Russell

Dats me wrote: »

I was thinking that a Docklands - Tara Street - Christchurch - Heuston alignment could be short and integrate with the Metro and other DART line at Tara as well as being a 3 minute walk to the Trinity Luas station, it would make Tara unbelievably busy, but only the same as the proposed St. Stephen's Green was to be in old proposals

It would make Tara St into a very busy interchange.

Better would be the existing design - Docklands - Pearse - SSG - Christchuch - Heuston.

Docklands - Interchange with Luas RL
Pearse - interchange with Dart.
SSG - interchange with Metro (plus Luas GL)
Christchurch - possible future Metro II?
Heuston - Interchange with mainline.

Tara would be far too complicated an interchange with Metro, Dart, DU, plus many intercity buses on the quays. Where it goes in SSG needs a bit of thought.

DU is already designed - do we need to rub it out and start again? Just build it.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would make Tara St into a very busy interchange.

Better would be the existing design - Docklands - Pearse - SSG - Christchuch - Heuston.

Docklands - Interchange with Luas RL
Pearse - interchange with Dart.
SSG - interchange with Metro (plus Luas GL)
Christchurch - possible future Metro II?
Heuston - Interchange with mainline.

Tara would be far too complicated an interchange with Metro, Dart, DU, plus many intercity buses on the quays. Where it goes in SSG needs a bit of thought.

DU is already designed - do we need to rub it out and start again? Just build it.

We are rubbing it out and starting again - DART Underground as it was has been abandoned.

The latest proposal appears that the tunnel portal will be moved in from Inchicore - as per Kildare Line DART Expansion tender last week.

Heartbreak Hank

marno21 wrote: »

The latest proposal appears that the tunnel portal will be moved in from Inchicore - as per Kildare Line DART Expansion tender last week.

Does the tender from last week (and the 4 track to in as far as Heuston) do away with the operational issue that was talked about when they initially said they wouldn't go underground at Inchicore?

cgcsb

I think routing DU to Tara St, if technically feasible, would be a mistake in passenger loadings. It's a tight enough site and you'd be centralising a LOT of interchanges there. MetroLink, 2 DART lines, both luas lines a short walk away and countless bus routes. We already have problems because of an over concentration of bus routes into O'Connell Bridge and College Green, it'd be replicating the same thing only worse because bus routes can be changed easily, rail routes not so much.