DART+ (DART Expansion)

DoctorPan

Thrashssacre wrote: »

I think there four piece sets there ordering, fixed eight piece sets would be wasteful. Prevents having shorter sets at weekends and late at night and would completely rule out expansion where as extending to 12 car trains at some point isn’t complete unreasonable 16 though I could never see in the next 50 years.

It's a mix of fixed 4/8 piece sets they're going with.

Thrashssacre

Does anyone have any particular preference to who’d they like to see awarded the contract to build the units based on what they have on offer in another part of the world? And who they really wouldn’t like to see being given the contract?

bk

DoctorPan wrote: »

It's a mix of fixed 4/8 piece sets they're going with.

Well under the original DU plan, there would be two DART lines, one which would use the tunnel, the other wouldn't.

So a mix of 4/8 piece sets would seem to match that perfectly. 4 piece set to use on the line that goes in the tunnel, 8 piece set for the other line.

Of course with the reality of DART Expansion, PPT, Cross and Guns and the delay and redesign of DU, lots of interesting new possibilities open up and I wouldn't be surprised if the new plan is completely different.

As another poster mentioned earlier. We could end up with the North/South line remaining as is, continue to operate 8 piece sets. With only trains coming in from the West going through the tunnel and being 4 piece sets.

I suspect the DU redesign will end up looking quite different and quite scaled down, with steps taken to minimise objections. Much like Metrolink.

Heartbreak Hank

Is there a timeline for releasing the routing of the tunnel or will it be after the Maynooth and Drogheda work?

Captain Chaos

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Does anyone have any particular preference to who’d they like to see awarded the contract to build the units based on what they have on offer in another part of the world? And who they really wouldn’t like to see being given the contract?

I'd hate for Alsthom or CAF to win it.

I'd like to see Stadler, Siemens, Tokucar, Mitsui or Hitachi to win it.

DoctorPan

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

Is there a timeline for releasing the routing of the tunnel or will it be after the Maynooth and Drogheda work?

DART Underground is intended to happen after DART Expansion to Hazelhatch, Drogheda and Maynooth.

Qrt

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I'd hate for Alsthom or CAF to win it.

I'd like to see Stadler, Siemens, Tokucar, Mitsui or Hitachi to win it.

Oh Siemens! I'd love to see the new Thameslink trains in a DART livery.

cgcsb

Just to add to the Maynooth line works, there is a very simple solution to the closure of crossings:

a new road bridge between stationcourt way and riverwood ct (hardest part)
a new bridge at teh barberstown crossing
Extend the diswellstown road through the rural area beind the school and join it onto the luttrellstown rd
Throw in some ped overpasses and there is no significant movement left out, all the new building works will be in rural areas except the bridge neer coolmine, but that'll only be a few clalls to Joe.

MJohnston

cgcsb wrote: »

a new road bridge between stationcourt way and riverwood ct (hardest part)

Is this even necessary? The Clonsilla/Porterstown Road bridge is barely 600m away and very easy to access from both sides of the railway.

Qrt

MJohnston wrote: »

Is this even necessary? The Clonsilla/Porterstown Road bridge is barely 600m away and very easy to access from both sides of the railway.

Is Porterstown Road the one where they wanted to close the level crossing and build a bridge at the end of an adjacent cul-de-sac? I’ve been trying to find stuff online but I can’t find it.

MJohnston

Qrt wrote: »

Is Porterstown Road the one where they wanted to close the level crossing and build a bridge at the end of an adjacent cul-de-sac? I’ve been trying to find stuff online but I can’t find it.

Apologies, it's actually the Diswellstown Road that I'm referring to - it's a newer bridge that links into the Blanchardstown ring road. Google Maps calls it both Clonsilla and Porterstown Road, but that's Google Maps for you.

Last Stop

cgcsb wrote: »

Just to add to the Maynooth line works, there is a very simple solution to the closure of crossings:

a new road bridge between stationcourt way and riverwood ct (hardest part)
a new bridge at teh barberstown crossing
Extend the diswellstown road through the rural area beind the school and join it onto the luttrellstown rd
Throw in some ped overpasses and there is no significant movement left out, all the new building works will be in rural areas except the bridge neer coolmine, but that'll only be a few clalls to Joe.

You left out Ashtown and Clonsilla which are the two hardest ones.
This is not going to be an easy job.
If you read the consultation report from the GDA strategy, the majority of respondents were about this. And this was in consultation about a strategy for the whole region!

Pete_Cavan

cgcsb wrote: »

a new road bridge between stationcourt way and riverwood ct (hardest part)

Qrt wrote: »

Is Porterstown Road the one where they wanted to close the level crossing and build a bridge at the end of an adjacent cul-de-sac? I’ve been trying to find stuff online but I can’t find it.

These posts both refer to the same location. The suggestion was a new road in the green strip beside Stationcourt Way and a new bridge tying into Riverwood. This was to replace the existing bridge at Coolmine station. There was/is uproar over it and sitting/hopeful local representatives have been falling over themselves to oppose it.

ciaran75

Last Stop wrote: »

You left out Ashtown and Clonsilla which are the two hardest ones.
!

While clonsilla may be more technical there are not many houses around so see little resistance

Having grown up near coolmine Station i think there may be a lot of complaints, i hope not. Huge amount of people live very close to station and use that crossing.

The new bridge they put a few years ago while may be only 600m as crow flies you have 3 sets of lights and clonsilla Road which is very busy so not really a runner, would take at least 10 mins detour

Are there any plans out yet

ciaran75

https://www.riverwoodres.com/2016/02/response-from-election-candidates/

Few years old but seems most local politicians oppose any changes

Last Stop

ciaran75 wrote: »

While clonsilla may be more technical there are not many houses around so see little resistance

Having grown up near coolmine Station i think there may be a lot of complaints, i hope not. Huge amount of people live very close to station and use that crossing.

The new bridge they put a few years ago while may be only 600m as crow flies you have 3 sets of lights and clonsilla Road which is very busy so not really a runner, would take at least 10 mins detour

Are there any plans out yet

Protected bridge over the canal with the existing station to the north and another protected building to the south make it incredibly difficult and constrained.

Coolmine will be difficult too. Would a temporary Bailey bridge at river wood while the raise the existing road over the track keep residents happy?

blanch152

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

These posts both refer to the same location. The suggestion was a new road in the green strip beside Stationcourt Way and a new bridge tying into Riverwood. This was to replace the existing bridge at Coolmine station. There was/is uproar over it and sitting/hopeful local representatives have been falling over themselves to oppose it.

It is the only solution.

Amazingly, people living on Coolmine Road who would see a huge improvement because of the through traffic going elsewhere also opposed the new bridge because they feared unsocial behaviour. Ultimate NIMBYism.

cgcsb

Bump, so apparently the moving of Docklands station to a former rail station site on Northwall quay with direct access also provided to the Spencerdock luas platform via central square is being considered, well in advance of DART underground happening. This will mean excavating a new cut and cover tunnel through the grounds of Europcar and the vacant sites behind it, to connect with the tracks north of Sherrif st. The tunnel must be deep enough by the time it hits north wall quay to meet a future TBM connection, avoid being flooded by the liffey and avoid destroying the foundations of the existing buildings.

This will mean closure of the red line between the Point and Connolly for some time. The amount of time is unknown but 'weeks' seems ti be the term de jour.

The existing Docklands station may be retained (but normally closed) to provide operational flexibility into the future, particularly while the DART expansion programme is ongoing, which will no doubt be disruptive to existing services.

loyatemu

seems like a lot of effort for not much benefit. Though I suppose it would be a symbolic first step for Dart Underground.

ncounties

cgcsb wrote: »

Bump, so apparently the moving of Docklands station to a former rail station site on Northwall quay with direct access also provided to the Spencerdock luas platform via central square is being considered, well in advance of DART underground happening. This will mean excavating a new cut and cover tunnel through the grounds of Europcar and the vacant sites behind it, to connect with the tracks north of Sherrif st. The tunnel must be deep enough by the time it hits north wall quay to meet a future TBM connection, avoid being flooded by the liffey and avoid destroying the foundations of the existing buildings.

This will mean closure of the red line between the Point and Connolly for some time. The amount of time is unknown but 'weeks' seems ti be the term de jour.

The existing Docklands station may be retained (but normally closed) to provide operational flexibility into the future, particularly while the DART expansion programme is ongoing, which will no doubt be disruptive to existing services.

Where was this heard, and when would it happen? They should have never planned to diverge from the original plan (seen here) anyway! I remember the plan, at the time, was to couple this with a pedestrian bridge across the Liffey directly south of this location to provide connectivity with Grand Canal Dock from the North.

As an East Wall resident, who's nearestr Luas stop is Spencer Dock, I would happily welcome this disruption for the long term good.

cgcsb

loyatemu wrote: »

seems like a lot of effort for not much benefit. Though I suppose it would be a symbolic first step for Dart Underground.

The benefit is that the existing station is an undesirable terminal location for passengers both from Hazehaltch and Maynooth. By moving the station to the quays and adding a new pedestrian bridge There is much better access to employment, it also offers better integration with the luas and busconnects services on the quays. Coupled this with the proposed Glasnevin interchange and it'll be perfectly reasonable to have Maynooth terminate at GCD and Hazelhatch at Northwall Quay or vice versa.

CatInABox

loyatemu wrote: »

seems like a lot of effort for not much benefit. Though I suppose it would be a symbolic first step for Dart Underground.

It'd make a fair bit of difference for interchanging between the Dart and the Luas, as that's one of the biggest complaints about the current Docklands station. It's also future proofing the line as well, better to do it now while those areas aren't being actively developed..

cgcsb

ncounties wrote: »

Where was this heard, and when would it happen? They should have never planned to diverge from the original plan (seen here) anyway! I remember the plan, at the time, was to couple this with a pedestrian bridge across the Liffey directly south of this location to provide connectivity with Grand Canal Dock from the North.

As an East Wall resident, who's nearestr Luas stop is Spencer Dock, I would happily welcome this disruption for the long term good.

The original plan involved a multi billion euro tunnel that was never going to be built concurrently with a multi billion euro dart expansion programme and a multi billion euro metro. At the same time we were also building a multi billion euro motorway network which is now almost complete.

ncounties

cgcsb wrote: »

The benefit is that the existing station is an undesirable terminal location for passengers both from Hazehaltch and Maynooth. By moving the station to the quays and adding a new pedestrian bridge There is much better access to employment, it also offers better integration with the luas and busconnects services on the quays. Coupled this with the proposed Glasnevin interchange and it'll be perfectly reasonable to have Maynooth terminate at GCD and Hazelhatch at Northwall Quay or vice versa.

Let's not forget that there will be high density development to the North, South, East and West of the new (original) location, compared with only to the south of the Docklands station. Spencer Dock is a much more suitable location for the station.

cgcsb

CatInABox wrote: »

It'd make a fair bit of difference for interchanging between the Dart and the Luas, as that's one of the biggest complaints about the current Docklands station. It's also future proofing the line as well, better to do it now while those areas aren't being actively developed..

There is also considerable pressure for the large amount of empty space to be developed asap, saying we can't because maybe DARTunderground might happen is more politically problematic than just building that part of the project now.

Shedite27

It's gonna be opened up for the Salesforce building anyway, might as well throw the required bits down once it's open.

CatInABox

Shedite27 wrote: »

It's gonna be opened up for the Salesforce building anyway, might as well throw the required bits down once it's open.

The underground work on Saleforce tower is complete, and they've already completed most of the elevator shafts. The new station will be going into the lot next door, adjoining Park Lane. Don't think anything is planned there at the moment, but that's probably because the NTA, IR and ABP won't allow any plans to interfere with Dart Underground.

loyatemu

cgcsb wrote: »

The benefit is that the existing station is an undesirable terminal location for passengers both from Hazehaltch and Maynooth. By moving the station to the quays and adding a new pedestrian bridge There is much better access to employment, it also offers better integration with the luas and busconnects services on the quays. Coupled this with the proposed Glasnevin interchange and it'll be perfectly reasonable to have Maynooth terminate at GCD and Hazelhatch at Northwall Quay or vice versa.

Docklands is only 300m from the quays; most of the time saved will be eaten up by having to get out of an underground station. And for this we're going to spend how many millions and close the red line for how many months? The pedestrian bridge is going to be built anyway.

cgcsb

loyatemu wrote: »

Docklands is only 300m from the quays; most of the time saved will be eaten up by having to get out of an underground station. And for this we're going to spend how many millions and close the red line for how many months? The pedestrian bridge is going to be built anyway.

If your final destination is grand canal dock, where the other line will terminate, it's about 1km away. Modern station design will allow for speedy egress.

It will have to be done as part of Dart underground anyway.

The sooner it's built, the sooner the land above can be developed into apartments.

CatInABox

loyatemu wrote: »

Docklands is only 300m from the quays; most of the time saved will be eaten up by having to get out of an underground station. And for this we're going to spend how many millions and close the red line for how many months? The pedestrian bridge is going to be built anyway.

Don't look at it as "moving a station", look at it as "building the first station of Dart Underground." Developers have been clamouring to redevelop the sites there, and they've consistently been blocked by a combination of NTA, IR, and ABP. Building this station now, ahead of Dart Underground, allows that section of the city to develop.

Also, the bridge almost certainly won't be built until that Dart Underground station is built there, ABP have repeatedly told DCC that they can't go ahead as it would impact on the Dart Underground plans.