DART+ (DART Expansion)

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

I work close to the dart line so I often see darts going past the window and I can't help but notice that between about 8 am and 9.30 the trains going past are mostly 4 carriages brimming with humans. Then for the late morning and afternoon it's all 8 carriages with only a few people on them. What is the logic of this? If any? Fixing this issue should be a central part of dart expansion and it should be done soon.

Outside of the busy periods, the Darts are generally less than a quarter full - some times hardly anyone on them. It would make a lot of sense if the normal number of carriages was four, increased to eight during busy times.

Such a measure would save on running and maintenance, but require some extra drivers to couple and uncouple trains. Maybe, it is the extra driver time that is the problem.

LXFlyer

cgcsb wrote: »

I work close to the dart line so I often see darts going past the window and I can't help but notice that between about 8 am and 9.30 the trains going past are mostly 4 carriages brimming with humans. Then for the late morning and afternoon it's all 8 carriages with only a few people on them. What is the logic of this? If any? Fixing this issue should be a central part of dart expansion and it should be done soon.

The trains are in service all day from start of business till about 19:30 or so while the 10 minute service is in operation. They don’t split up during the day, so the formations are fixed to deliver the capacity when it’s most needed in the morning peak, afternoon schools and evening peak. You have to look at the complete diagram for each train throughout the day rather than looking at one or two departures in isolation.

I’m assuming you’re near the city centre, so bear in mind that it takes over two hours for a train to get to Greystones and back as well. That means it can take 3.5 hours to do a complete round trip including layovers at either end. As I say you would have to look at the full set diagrams to understand how the fleet is deployed and the reasons for it.

There shouldn’t be many four piece sets out at all unless there were set failures. The vast majority of trains are eight piece with some six piece sets rostered.

Kevtherev1

Confirmation that construction of Pelletstown Station has begun. Sod turning today. To open Autumn 2021.



https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/news/520626/sod-turned-to-start-work-on-new-maynooth-line-rail-station.html

LXFlyer

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

Confirmation that construction of Pelletstown Station has begun. Sod turning today. To open Autumn 2021.

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/news/520626/sod-turned-to-start-work-on-new-maynooth-line-rail-station.html

I’d have serious doubts about the station fully opening in Autumn 2021 outside of off-peak hours.

With no additional rolling stock entering service until Spring 2022 there simply is no capacity for stopping there at peak hours.

AAAAAAAAA

LXFlyer wrote: »

I’d have serious doubts about the station fully opening in Autumn 2021 outside of off-peak hours.

With no additional rolling stock entering service until Spring 2022 there simply is no capacity for stopping there at peak hours.

Surely the bulk of people in the vicinity of the new station will already be using the Ashtown and Broombridge stations, I doubt this will affect much

LXFlyer

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

Surely the bulk of people in the vicinity of the new station will already be using the Ashtown and Broombridge stations, I doubt this will affect much

Ashington is a rather large estate currently only served by buses. It’s doesn’t have easy access to either station.

On the far side of the canal plenty of people may currently be using the 120 bus.

MJohnston

Forgive me if I’m being ignorant, but how does it take a year and a half to construct a train station? Is it down to restricted construction hours?

CatInABox

MJohnston wrote: »

Forgive me if I’m being ignorant, but how does it take a year and a half to construct a train station? Is it down to restricted construction hours?

I'd assume that there's restrictions around working near an active train line, but beyond that, I've no idea.

roadmaster

Would the train have you in Connolly in 12mins like the article says?

Zebra3

roadmaster wrote: »

Would the train have you in Connolly in 12mins like the article says?

It's about 8 minutes from Broombridge to Connolly, so I guess so.

roadmaster

Zebra3 wrote: »

It's about 8 minutes from Broombridge to Connolly, so I guess so.

It always seems longer especially when the train is stopped between drumcondra and Connolly

1huge1

Maybe its improved since I used the western line 5 or 6 years ago on a relatively regular basis, half the time (as stated above) was just parked up waiting to get onto the Northern Line just up from Connolly.

LXFlyer

1huge1 wrote: »

Maybe its improved since I used the western line 5 or 6 years ago on a relatively regular basis, half the time (as stated above) was just parked up waiting to get onto the Northern Line just up from Connolly.

Given that inbound trains have to cross the northbound northern line tracks to access Connolly, that will remain an issue at peak times, however the completion of the city centre re-signalling project will improve timetable resilience.

The DART expansion project will further improve the situation, with a remodelling of the trackwork approaching Connolly.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/shankill-new-homes-fast-track-5032089-Mar2020/

Here's loads more people on the dart, even a new station. And the raheny green light too. Does whoever is in charge of this city not realise you need to improve infrastructure along with a growing population? Apparently not.

Idbatterim

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/shankill-new-homes-fast-track-5032089-Mar2020/

Here's loads more people on the dart, even a new station. And the raheny green light too. Does whoever is in charge of this city not realise you need to improve infrastructure along with a growing population? Apparently not.

This is best Irish practice. Put it beside decent by our pathetic standards infrastructure and address the issue later. Have to say, I’m a recent convert to this way of doing things. They’ll only do something when it’s critical ...

Zebra3

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/shankill-new-homes-fast-track-5032089-Mar2020/

Here's loads more people on the dart, even a new station. And the raheny green light too. Does whoever is in charge of this city not realise you need to improve infrastructure along with a growing population? Apparently not.

Land is ultimately rezoned to make friends of FFFG wealthy.

It’s most definitely not rezoned as a wider plan for the benefit of society.

Idbatterim

Zebra3 wrote: »

Land is ultimately rezoned to make friends of FFFG wealthy.

It’s most definitely not rezoned as a wider plan for the benefit of society.

What is ridiculous is, they get land rezoned beside infrastructure paid for by the people and who sees the benefit ? The speculators. We also have as good as no lpt, so it’s not like the people even in living in the vicinity of this infrastructure are contributing directly towards it , that could help roll out more infrastructure to other areas. If there was an lpt here of one percent , Roman Lyons said it would generate 5 billion! But I think there should in fact be a council tax instead , paid by all adult occupants of house , no exemptions and no exceptions

Sam Russell

Idbatterim wrote: »

What is ridiculous is, they get land rezoned beside infrastructure paid for by the people and who sees the benefit ? The speculators. We also have as good as no lpt, so it’s not like the people even in living in the vicinity of this infrastructure are contributing directly towards it , that could help roll out more infrastructure to other areas. If there was an lpt here of one percent , Roman Lyons said it would generate 5 billion! But I think there should in fact be a council tax instead , paid by all adult occupants of house , no exemptions and no exceptions

That is a poll tax - very regressive. Hits the poor more than the wealthy, and 'no exceptions' is even more regressive again.

There were riots in the UK over this.

gjim

Zebra3 wrote: »

Land is ultimately rezoned to make friends of FFFG wealthy.

This is a bizarre claim.

Rezoning is performed by local government and neither FF nor FG have been a force in, for example, Dublin City council for many years. Combined, FF and FG hold less than a third of the seats on the city council - the rest are all leftish or very left.

It would be very strange if all these left-leaning non-FF, non-FG councillors were rezoning land to make friends of their political opponents wealthy.

Zebra3

gjim wrote: »

This is a bizarre claim.

Rezoning is performed by local government and neither FF nor FG have been a force in, for example, Dublin City council for many years. Combined, FF and FG hold less than a third of the seats on the city council - the rest are all leftish or very left.

It would be very strange if all these left-leaning non-FF, non-FG councillors were rezoning land to make friends of their political opponents wealthy.

The rezoning though is done piecemeal.

It’s not to part of a master plan.

It makes FFFG supporters wealthy.

You are referring to just one council.

donvito99

Zebra3 wrote: »

The rezoning though is done piecemeal.

It’s not to part of a master plan.

It makes FFFG supporters wealthy.

You are referring to just one council.

Ridiculous. Re-zoning is required in order to build accommodation on otherwise redundant land.

Zebra3

donvito99 wrote: »

Ridiculous. Re-zoning is required in order to build accommodation on otherwise redundant land.

Is it done piecemeal or it done as a part of a masterplan to serve the greater good of society?

gjim

Zebra3 wrote: »

It makes FFFG supporters wealthy.

Just repeating this sentence does nothing to make it more true. You need to provide, evidence, examples, etc.

Zebra3 wrote: »

You are referring to just one council.

I referred to the largest council in the country - a council entrusted with more planning decisions than any other. You're the one claiming that zoning decisions are made in order to make FF and FG supporters wealthy. So how can this be when many of these decisions are made by political opponents of FF and FG?

I'm not sure I can put it any simpler than that. There's plenty to be discussed about planning failure in Ireland but vague/conspiratorial/politically motivated/unsubstantiated claims like yours add nothing to such a debate.

Zebra3

gjim wrote: »

You're the one claiming that zoning decisions are made in order to make FF and FG supporters wealthy.

I said it makes them wealthy.

Stop making stuff up.

gjim

Zebra3 wrote: »

gjim wrote: »

You're the one claiming that zoning decisions are made in order to make FF and FG supporters wealthy.

I said it makes them wealthy.

Stop making stuff up.

It's only about 20 posts above - I'm quoting you almost word for word:

Zebra3 wrote: »

Land is ultimately rezoned to make friends of FFFG wealthy.

The simple question you're dodging is: how can this be when many rezoning decisions are made by political opponents of FF and FG?

I mean, you seem convinced it's a fact since you've been repeating it like a mantra. Surely you have some notion of how it's happening?

SeanW

I checked this out last night - Dun Laoghaire Rathdown CC has 40 members of which only 20 are FF or FG, the other 20 are leftists or independents. So ... what exactly is being claimed?

Sam Russell

Mod: Rezoning is off topic. Leave it. Posts will be deleted.

donvito99

DU seems further away than ever but could we increase capacity to the city centre in the interim without the need for tunneling and other major schemes?

By how much could frequency be increased if Connolly, Tara St and Pearse were 're-built'/realigned to have 4 through platforms, and what would the cost of this be?

The City Centre Re-Signalling will provide for 20tph, could this be increase to say 30tph with twice as many platforms?

Connolly is proposed to be modified such that it will go from 3 to 4 through platforms anyway, as I understand? There's work to be done here, but this is likely the most straightforward station to modify.

Tara St would require substantial works either side of the existing platforms, if not a slight realignment with some acquisitions necessary at the sourthern end of the station, to allow for a wide enough approach and enough space to accommodate 2 island platforms.

Pearse is likely the most complex, but it did have at least one bay platform in the past and the station interior is wide enough for two island platforms, provided you moved platforms slightly further east i.e. away from the existing shed. Stairs and lift access and egress to and from the island platforms and the entrances at Pearse St and Westland Row would make things complicated.

You would likely need more turnback facilities at and/or between GCD and Pearse to accommodate more trains per hour, which is why plans to develop some of the CIE property here could undermine the above

If you could do the above for €500m and increase throughput by 50%, it would seem to me to be a worthwhile investment in anticipation of DU (and we could be waiting a long time for that project).

Also, Connolly and Tara St are miserable, dirty places and could do with major facelifts in any case.

end of the road

pearse had 3 bay platforms from what i understand, all were quite short and i think south facing from what i can gather.
if i remember rightly, platform 5 i think is now a car park, if it even still exists, 4 became one of the sidings and was shortened, and 3 was filled in.

Last Stop

Not a hope of adding platforms to Tara or Pearse without substantial property acquisition so not going to happen.

The addition of through platforms at Connolly will help a lot. Improvements to the track layout north of Connolly (including potentially widening the bridge over East Wall Rd) would reduce the wait times on approach.

There may be more potential at GCD for a fourth platform by widening the bridge over the canal. Terminating some of the services from the south here too would also help.

Perhaps the biggest improvement will be the relocated docklands station. Having a direct interchange with Luas will change how people view the station. Add in this bridge https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2019/1204/1097073-dublin/ and your catchment area increases significantly!

None of these however match the benefits of DART Underground. Bringing passengers from the Kildare line right into the city centre and also creating two separate DART lines will be a game changer. The fact that northern line services wouldn’t have to use the loopline would also allow for increased frequency of other services.