DART+ (DART Expansion)

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402451#Comment_121402451

You could, with a LOT of faff, raise the platforms and change the power voltage without having more than one, one station section closure and a short bustitution at a time.

With an incredible amount of faff you could put a section in to one-side running and convert an entire side to the new height/voltage, then extend the Metro on one-side running to those platforms while you withdraw the trams from the other and convert those. This could allow a much reduced level of closures and gradually push the Metro service south.

You'd need temporary platforms where possible to make it easier, temporary crossovers (these were used during the Cross City build to allow the truncated service to run) and so on and it would cause massive complications for continuing to provide both voltages to different sets of wires. So you can see why this is very unlikely.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402451#Comment_121402451

Closing the rail line south of Lansdowne Road for a few months would not be accepted. You would also have a significant number of nearby residents who would not accept the rail line being raised there, just look at Merion Gates. The benefits of closing Serpentine Ave LC would be minimal given you would still have stations and LCs less than 500m away on either side. It's a non-runner.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402518#Comment_121402518

The LCs needs to be closed or DART+ on the line basically cannot happen. You can't hit the volume targets and retain them. If it meant the DART was closed south of Landsdowne Rd for a few months, that is a small price to pay, particularly given how few homeowners it will affect.

riddlinrussell

Given this is Ireland and how long projects take, close all the LCs 'temporarily' for road bridge works, then after 5 years when everyone is well used to the change, install a dutch style pedestrian and cycling underpass, voila.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402700#Comment_121402700

Well as reported here recently, it looks like DART+ Coastal South isn't going to happen, at least not on the scale originally envisioned, which won't surprise anyone. Like I said, longer LC closures is the way to go, building up to hours at a time.

Closing the rail line south of GCD for months would be an enormous issue and would not be accepted. You would have huge opposition from much of the east coast from south Dublin down as far as Wexford. That's on top of all the other issues raising the line would face. It simply isn't going to fly.

And the population living east of the tracks between Landsdowne Road and Merrion Gates is significant. There are also several sports facilities serving a much larger area. Dismissing that would be extreme folly.

loco_scolo

I wonder if the number of LC incidents would reduce if the gates closed for a shorter amount of time? The fact that they close for so long is the reason people "chance it". Kind of like a chicken and egg situation.

If the LCs are kept, they could make traffic one way at each LC, perhaps. This would limit the conflicts. Then the gates could close for shorter amounts of time, but close more often. It could be a medium term solution....

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403385#Comment_121403385

People will "chance it" regardless of how long the closure is. More closures will only lead to more chancing it and more incidents.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403407#Comment_121403407

I fully disagree. Are you saying there is no link between the length of closures and people "chancing it" due to impatience?

It's just a hypothesis, but it's a very reasonable one, no? I'm not saying we don't close LCs, as of course that is highly preferred.

CatInABox

Just look at the behaviour around red lights, they change fairly often, with relatively short lengths, but people still chance it.

That same behaviour would be shown with more level crossing closures. With traffic lights, they've found that increasing the length of time the light stays yellow massively reduced the amount of people running the red light, but I don't think that'll work on level crossings.

The only thing that will deter people from chancing it is a draconian punishment.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403457#Comment_121403457

The difference though is people pass through 10, 15, 20?... sets of traffic lights on a journey in the city, so the length of people's patience is far lower. It's a fair comparison, not attacking it, but I think there's a difference.

To be fair here, I'm not suggesting something outrageous. Basically saying that level crossings should not be closed for longer in case someone hits one, as closing them for longer makes it more likely someone will "chance it" rather than wait up to 5minutes.

prunudo

They really need to push on with the over bridge plan beside the church to bypass Merrion Gates. Once that is in place, it will make the the closure of the other LC more palatable.

Thelonious Monk

My partner's house is on the train line in North Strand that has something to do with DART+, her back wall is the railway. A solicitor has been trying to get her to join up to some NIMBY carry on based on whatever it is they're doing but we've decided to just ignore him. I think they just need to do some work from some of the gardens.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404068#Comment_121404068

They're clearing the line of vegetation at the moment, maybe it's something to do with that? Got a leaflet recently saying that they're doing night works, and I personally haven't heard anything, but I do know that there's been a lot of complaints about "intolerable noise" all night long.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404076#Comment_121404076

Yes got the night works one too. Did the solicitor get on to you? If I recall he has some unusual name.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402503#Comment_121402503

I am talking about Dart between Landowne and Sandymount - no stations there at all!.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402518#Comment_121402518

Serpentine Ave would be an underpass - perhaps with restricted height.

The LC gates at Sandymount and Sydney Parade would close permanently. The Merrion Gates would transfer to the QoP Church car park.

A pedestrian bridge could be provided at both Sandymount and Sydney Parade, with a ramp if required.

Landowne needs a better solution.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403337#Comment_121403337

Short term pain vs. Long term issues of the LC closed only most of the time. There are quick and easy wins in closing some of the LC's and if there is any hope of increasing capacity on the line, it has to be done. South Dublin homeowners living east of the line shouldn't be able to hold the entire project hostage.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403563#Comment_121403563

I think going under the railway would be a better option. The vehicles either have to go 5 metres up or down, and down is much less visually intrusive. Also, going under has less effect on the railway. They did in one in Sallins over one night - hardly affected the railway line at all.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405682#Comment_121405682

I'd imagine they investigated the possibility of going under the railway at the time - the line is quite constrained and very close to the sea; it's not the same as what they did in Sallins.

There might be space to go under at Serpentine Ave (and it doesn't need to be 5m, just high enough to accommodate a van, there's no bus route on that road). Possibly Sydney Parade as well, though there are bus routes there. At Sandymount there are houses too close to the line, if you built an underpass they'd lose access to their driveways.

riddlinrussell

Slight Hyperbole, it was a full weekend, not over night in Sallins, and there were many weeks of prep work either side, with plenty of space to work in an empty field, not with dirty great bridge fixture sitting in the middle of a busy Dublin street.

Wasn't the Merrion gates plan published a few years ago basically for turning it into a pedestrian underpass or one way low bridge?

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405749#Comment_121405749

cycle/pedestrian underpass at the current LC location with a replacement bridge for traffic further north at Queen of Peace church.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405055#Comment_121405055

There would be nothing quick and easy about going over/under the rail line. The level change would have to start about 100m from the tracks either side and would directly affect many homes and indirectly many more. It would be opposed anywhere in the country, doesn’t matter that it is south Dublin.

Like I said, incrementally increasing the length of closures is the quickest and easiest way to go.

bk

There would be nothing quick and easy about going over/under the rail line. The level change would have to start about 100m from the tracks either side and would directly affect many homes and indirectly many more. It would be opposed anywhere in the country, doesn’t matter that it is south Dublin.

I know now isn't the right time for it as they have bigger fish to fry, but eventually just CPO those houses and be done with it. Build apartment buildings in their place when it is done.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405747#Comment_121405747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405749#Comment_121405749

They Merrion Gates was to be replaced with a pedestrian underpass just metres from the Merrion Strand. Not sure how they would cope with rising sea levels. [Answer - they had not thought of that!] So an underpass at the church car park would be OK. No chance of anything at Sydney Parade, and it is only a short distance to the Merrion Gates replacement in the church car park. Sandymount is also difficult, but it has a bus route.

As for Sallins approach, the prep work at the church car park and the old CTT building car park the opposite side of the railway line would have a bit of space if they used the carparks during work. The benefit of using that approach is that the Dart line is not affected much.

Yes, it was part of a coastal cycle lane proposal from Sutton to Blackrock. It failed to impress the local NIMBY crowd.

prunudo

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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121407215#Comment_121407215

Can't remember was there a dedicated thread on that project, but what is the current status of it. Is it on hold permanently, scrapped or in limbo until somebody has the balls to make difficult decisions on progressing necessary public transport projects.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121407310#Comment_121407310

I would say it is dead or in limbo - is there a difference?

loyatemu

AFAIK it is not an active project, but I would imagine they can reuse some of the work done for it when they start looking at the issue again.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121410771#Comment_121410771

Well, at least the PP application for the old CTT site has been rejected. They wanted to turn the car park into a multi-story something or other. The DCC should preserve the route for this project PDQ.

Ireland trains

https://www.greystonesguide.ie/irish-rail-address-crappy-greystones-service/

DART+ south consultation to begin in the new year.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121471119#Comment_121471119

that's what they said this time last year. From previous posts it looks like it might be a very much reduced project - a passing loop somewhere near Greystones, maybe closure of the LC in Bray, signalling changes, not much else unless they've decided to include something for Wicklow Town.

Consonata

Would be madness not close all LCs now as part of this project. It will only become a tougher project as time goes on.